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Old 01-20-2010, 03:37 PM
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Arrow Trash Drops are Unnecessary, My Suggestion.

Trash - What is trash and how can we best make use of the games loot tables?

While ideally, some trash is okay, a base piece of armor, maybe even an inferior piece of armor. but how much trash should a game have? Well, this observer can say for certain that minimizing trash is the best way to play a game. You don't want to see so much loot on the ground that you get sick at it's sight, and you don't want to be starved for loot either.

How do we deal with these conflicting ideals? Here's my suggestion.

- All loot as something useful at one time or another.

Instead of making trash loot that is always worthless to the player, only add loot that will be worthwhile to the player at one time or another.

I don't mean to say that the player should be picking up every piece of gear or item that drops, however, trash should be useful for the player at one time or another, in that, if a player chooses not to pick up an item, he will not be penalized later for it.

Trash drops, like a coat, a hat, and a sword, that drop off a monster, that the player may never use, are pointless to drop all the time, you do not need to drop all that, all the time, killing something does not always have to yield loot drops. It shouldn't, because always dropping loot creates more and more trash then the player will ever be able to carry.

So what should be done?

- Every Normal monster should not always drop loot.

- Unnecessary trash needs to go - STOP dropping loot no one will ever use, either to sell or to pick up.

- Make use of all trash for different cases - Did inferior plate pants drop? Allow a profession to use those plates as a crafting material. Either to deconstruct the pants for raw materials, or to use the inferior pants directly to create a better item.

- Replace trash with different game-play mechanics - like Scrolls or Potions that help you in combat.

- Everything should have a chance to drop good loot that could be used by anyone at anytime given the players circumstance.

Trash is an unnecessary part of the ARPG genre and should be eliminated as much as possible.

Read more about my ideas on health orb mechanics here.

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75

Last edited by Scryer; 01-22-2010 at 12:17 PM.
  #2  
Old 01-20-2010, 03:40 PM
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It's impossible to make all loot useful at some point...the entire item system is random. Trash in a random system is simply inevitable.

With that said, medierra had already said they are significantly reducing the amount of trash monsters drop, and this is also on the features page.
  #3  
Old 01-20-2010, 03:43 PM
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Trash drops might be a necessity in GD if we have a "disassemble" feature where we can turn any/all items into the oh so sought after Iron Bars, Salt or some other item needed to make other things.

If we can disassemble on the run then trash drops wont be a problem at all.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:04 PM
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Well, my suggestion is more-so to apply the meaning of trash drops in previous iterations of the ARPG genre, and re-apply it's meaning in a more modern context.

Trash that is always worthless should never drop or be as close to never dropping - that is the modern context.

If trash is sometimes worthwhile then it is no longer useless or worthless to drop.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:05 PM
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Trash is never "worthless" anyways...everything in Titan Quest had monetary value. I think Crate is on the right track...reducing the amount of "trash" is a good idea...but I am not sure how they would even apply what you are suggesting...or really even what it actually means.
  #6  
Old 01-20-2010, 04:33 PM
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He isn't saying a whole lot, just something that could be contexted into something else at some other point, somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scryer
- Every Normal monster should not always drop loot.
This I disagree with, well at least the implication that normal monsters should not have the chance to drop something. In TQ, for example, monsters that did not drop items because they weren't carrying them, dropped monster relics; which is contrary to Diablo II LOD where "stinging nats" could drop unique swords.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:29 PM
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I think it is okay for a monster that can not carry a sword, still have the ability to drop one.

I'm simply suggesting in that quote, that normal monsters should have a rare chance of dropping anything.

Too much clutter and the game gets mundane pretty quick, when something is dropped however it should always be worth while to the player.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:37 PM
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Wait, wait... drop anything... I'm confused. In TQ, the WYSIWYG method worked well, it made dropping items kind of interesting based on what they used.

I agree with a monster being able to drop something even though not carrying as well, but within reason - no fleas dropping arquebuseses.

Monsters should drop something that should always be of use to a player, and make that something material AND stackable (lol?).
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It may also be surprising to know that some players prefer different play-styles.
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I guess it only makes sense for Ghosts'n Goblins to go online. I mean, online is the current realm of people running around in their underwear, and Ghosts'n Goblins pretty much invented running around in your underwear.
  #9  
Old 01-20-2010, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scryer View Post
I think it is okay for a monster that can not carry a sword, still have the ability to drop one.
Huh? How is that ok? A wolf should not be able to drop any kind of weapon or armor, except for maybe jewelry or a collar.(dunno, i guess you could put a ring on a dog's paw or something...*shrug*) And the whole, oh maybe he ate that weapon doesn't make sense to me. He'd have to be a BIG damn wolf for that to happen, but I don't think Fenrir is gonna be in this game.

Like Maplh said, WYSIWYG was an EXCEPTIONAL drop method. My favorite by far, because you will always know WHO to farm for what item. Rather than, oh, I'm just gonna run through from here to here and kill everything hoping I'll get this great item. Unlike boss farming, monster farming like this works pretty well.
  #10  
Old 01-20-2010, 05:49 PM
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Ironically... I kind of agree with with monsters having the ability of dropping certain items based on what they are despite them not using them. Like materials.

There was this one creature in Marduk's Temple in TQ that carried polearms and dropped them, even though it did not use them. Like a jelly or a slime of some sort. It was very cool that it did. Kind of like a clean up from all the other dead adventurers.

I think this should be limited to stuff it has the ability to use, and materials. Nothing else. Loot tables notwithstanding.

Cheers,

Malph
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It may also be surprising to know that some players prefer different play-styles.
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Originally Posted by jiaco View Post
It is not censorship, it is called Whack a mole.
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Originally Posted by Keyrock View Post
I guess it only makes sense for Ghosts'n Goblins to go online. I mean, online is the current realm of people running around in their underwear, and Ghosts'n Goblins pretty much invented running around in your underwear.
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