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Old 10-13-2018, 04:20 AM
ya_ ya_ is offline
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Default NIGHTMARE MODE: Making Main Campaign a Challenge Again

I’ve had this idea buzzing at the back of my head for a while. It concerns the difficulty of the Main Campaign. Even though I know that it’s a fantasy never to be realized and that Shattered Realms might be the answer to some of it, I still decided to write it up. But before I get to it let me establish a few facts.

1. Normal, Elite and Ultimate aren’t difficulty levels per se. You have to clear all three to fully complete a build. And the only choice you have regarding difficulty is whether to go Veteran for the first walkthrough.

2. After a few hundred hours in the game MC hardly offers any challenge. Crucible and Hardcore are the only modes that offer challenge to experienced players.

3. I can’t speak for Hardcode as I don’t play it. AFAIK it’s a different game with different meta.

4. FARMING MATS is virtually the only reason why some players would ever wanna enter MC after they’ve finished leveling. (EDIT: Players who can’t farm Crucible yet and refuse to trade might choose to farm rouguelikes for gear. Also, to be thorough, there’s farming purple MIs, certain greens and unlocking ultraboss achievements)

5. FARMING MATS is like making ballpens - mindless repetitive task that does not require any skill or even a well-made build...

...but it doesn’t have to be that way. What if the principle of bigger risk bigger reward could be applied to farming MC, too? I was thinking of something that could be called NIGHTMARE MODE. This is how it would work:

- It would be accessible after completing all faction quest lines and killing Theo on Ultimate
- It would only apply to Ultimate and take form of a box to check like in case of Veteran
- It would offer more generous drop rates
- It would dramatically raise the difficulty elevating the exploration of Cairn to the difficulty levels of the final Crucible waves. I’m taking about replacing trash mobs with hero mobs, multiple nemesis/boss spawns, areas of never ending spawns, etc.
- Its accessiblity would be somehow limited. It might cost a certain resource to access it. And/or dying there would bring about some sort of penalty for example not being able to access it again for a time and/or losing all collected loot, etc.

Now, I understand that it would require many work hours for the devs. But it wouldn’t necessarily mean having to redo the whole world. Spawns can be randomized, and good sets of spawns already exist in Crucible. Some adjustments would have to be made, of course, like balancing enemy to loot density ratios, locking out some areas, etc. But if it took a form of a DLC I’d definitely spend a few bucks... For most players with 3 or more toons entering a dungeon on Ultimate is just as thrilling as going to the bathroom. Wouldn’t it be great if clearing a roguelike was as hard and as rewarding as clearing 170 twice on an incomplete set of blessings?
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Old 10-13-2018, 06:57 AM
Smitherson Smitherson is offline
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If nothing else, I'm nostalgic for the days of XMAX in TQ to get triple spawns along with using defiler to give every mob a purple weapon. It was a neat way to bump up the challenge and resulted in actual challenges when you were rushed by mobs of Machae covered in particle effects from their gear. Something like that would definitely be attractive for me.
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Old 10-13-2018, 09:46 AM
medea fleecestealer's Avatar
medea fleecestealer medea fleecestealer is offline
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Devs have said they're not adding another level of difficulty and with only around 2% of players ever finishing Ultimate I'm not surprised. A lot of work for little return. Crucible and the soon to be released Shattered Realm should give you both loot and challenge enough.

If not, there are plenty of mods out there to increase difficulty so play with some of them. Grimarillion/ungrim can easily throw 6-7 heroes at you at once even at low levels. And by that I mean around L8 facing that number down in the Acquifier.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:39 AM
ya_ ya_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medea fleecestealer View Post
only around 2% of players ever finishing Ultimate
That number FOR REAL? I feel guilty now for disabling auto feedback... It would’ve probably done more good than producing all them paragraphs in the forum feedback section...
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:57 AM
SkeletorOne SkeletorOne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medea fleecestealer View Post
Devs have said they're not adding another level of difficulty and with only around 2% of players ever finishing Ultimate I'm not surprised. A lot of work for little return. Crucible and the soon to be released Shattered Realm should give you both loot and challenge enough.

If not, there are plenty of mods out there to increase difficulty so play with some of them. Grimarillion/ungrim can easily throw 6-7 heroes at you at once even at low levels. And by that I mean around L8 facing that number down in the Acquifier.
/this

We're talking out of a minority position here and FG with the Shattered Realm will bring us a new type of challenge. SR will be scaling, so no matter how strong your build might be, you will hit a wall at some point.

I tend to watch a lot of Twitch Streamers playing GD, most of them are very experienced GD players playing Hardcore and some of them complain about the lack of difficulty, too. Then they die on stream in Elite to some random Skeletal Gargantuan in Steps of Torment, a poison pool in Wardens Cellar or something else. So there's that.
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Old 10-13-2018, 11:03 AM
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medea fleecestealer medea fleecestealer is offline
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Yes, check the global achievements in Steam.

Saviour of Malmouth - 2.1%
Complete Ashes of Malmouth on Ultimate difficulty

Champion of Malmouth - 3.7%
Complete Ashes of Malmouth on Elite difficulty

Defender of Malmouth - 8.1%
Complete Ashes of Malmouth

Saviour of Cairn (base game) - 5.4%
Complete the game on ultimate difficulty

Champion of Cairn - 11%
Complete the game on Elite difficulty

Defender of Cairn - 29.1%
Complete the game
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Old 10-13-2018, 11:54 AM
Lony97 Lony97 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medea fleecestealer View Post
Devs have said they're not adding another level of difficulty and with only around 2% of players ever finishing Ultimate I'm not surprised. A lot of work for little return.
Lol if it's true it's really sad
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:44 PM
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mamba mamba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ya_ View Post
That number FOR REAL? I feel guilty now for disabling auto feedback... It would’ve probably done more good than producing all them paragraphs in the forum feedback section...
yes, and auto-feedback has nothing to do with it, you can see it in the Steam achievements
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:46 PM
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mamba mamba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lony97 View Post
Lol if it's true it's really sad
it is true and it is not sad, it is the norm. Across all similar games the completion rate is about equal
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:46 PM
Norzan Norzan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkeletorOne View Post
I tend to watch a lot of Twitch Streamers playing GD, most of them are very experienced GD players playing Hardcore and some of them complain about the lack of difficulty, too. Then they die on stream in Elite to some random Skeletal Gargantuan in Steps of Torment, a poison pool in Wardens Cellar or something else. So there's that.
I see also some people complain about the lack of difficulty and then having over 100 deaths in a single character.
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