Go Back   Grim Dawn Forums > Grim Dawn Gameplay > Gameplay Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 02-13-2018, 10:40 PM
sfbistimg's Avatar
sfbistimg sfbistimg is offline
Lord Advocate
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,716
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post
Outside Darkblaze I don't think Chaos can stack such heavy RR. Also @Ceno chaos can stack 90%+ RR on melee builds as well
I don't use Darkblaze and I have 81% from skills & Eldritch fire + 28 flat from acid spray and then another 30% off procs from gear. So you can definitely stack over 80% chaos -rr
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:27 AM
toilagamer852 toilagamer852 is offline
Speaker
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by korsar View Post
Symbol of Solael, Eldritch fire, Thermite mines/Death sentence, BWC/Manticore, Voidheart, Fang of Ch'thon, Essence of Ch'thon.
10+23+33/25+25/28+10+20 *15% = ~-136% RR for melee. Isn't this already enough good??
Well, comparing to Elemental build: Inquisitor -33% ele res, Occultist, -30% ele res, Nightblade -30% cold res, Demolitionist: -40% fire/lightning res, Shaman -35%. If you combine any of these 2 masteries and team them up with Elemental Storm that gives -32 flat ele rr, Eldritch Fire that gives -23% fire res, Rumor that gives -23% cold res, Arcane Bomb that gives -35% lightning res, Viper that gives 20% reduced elemental res (100% chance on skills with WA of course, unlike that Essence of Ch'thon). Not to mention Hand of Ultos that gives 20% reduced elemental res (if you plan to play lightning).

I won't mention Vit, Bleeding or Aether here. But the example of -rr for ele damage is just to show how easy it is to stack 100+ -rr (ITEM and COMPONENT INDEPENDENT). While looking at your setup, yes -rr for chaos can achieve such degree, but AT WHAT PRICE?

In the current state of chaos damage, you need to be super rigid with gears/component setup, sacrifice tons of defense, and destroy the pool of available itemization for chaos.

I am not sure if I should agree/disagree with Chthon's opinion that adding -chaos res to Curse of Fraity will break the chaos build diversity, but I do agree with him that we need more buff to the existing -rr to chaos damage. Across all masteries, only 2 have -rr to chaos, and the numbers are actually mediocre. Really, different primary res cap out at 94% for nemesis (except Physical, mostly 25%), then why Ele, Vit, Aether, Bleed take such an ease to reduce enemy's res to negative, while it is !@#$ing harder to bring down chaos res.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-14-2018, 02:00 AM
Dioarchet Dioarchet is offline
Emissary
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 970
Default

Definitely wouldn't mind adding chaos RR to Bloody Pox or even DEE. CoF doesn't need a buff.

I disagree that this would destroy build diversity. I mean, there aren't many pure chaos builds to begin with. This would in fact increase overall build diversity by allowing chaos to be more viable in the first place.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-14-2018, 04:52 AM
Jackdaw's Avatar
Jackdaw Jackdaw is offline
Counsel
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 305
Default

There are several items that add to CoF already. Mythical Codex of Lies adds Aether damage and I have a medal that adds vitality or fire (not sure). It's probably more effective to increase the % to proc to celestial powers and boost the -rr% on items.

Solael's Witchblade is a pain in the neck to get if you also want Abomination (I'm sure there's a way but I couldn't do it easily) so you could improve the completion bonus on that to improve availability. I'm feeling kind of miffed that I dropped that constellation now

Bloody Pox (with Wasting and Black Death) is already doing a lot of different things: Vitality, Bleed, Poison, -DA, -Health, Confuse so I think it's good already (I think it's brilliant ). Maybe add a %chance for -RR to Solael's Witchfire say 5% on attack?

Last edited by Jackdaw; 02-14-2018 at 08:07 AM. Reason: Correct Errors
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-14-2018, 08:54 AM
Superfluff's Avatar
Superfluff Superfluff is offline
Praetorian
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,930
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfbistimg View Post
I don't use Darkblaze and I have 81% from skills & Eldritch fire + 28 flat from acid spray and then another 30% off procs from gear. So you can definitely stack over 80% chaos -rr
You can't quite afford acid spray in crucible because you need some defense. At best a plaguebearer Chaos MI, sword, scepter or axe, dagger
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:40 AM
sfbistimg's Avatar
sfbistimg sfbistimg is offline
Lord Advocate
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,716
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfluff View Post
You can't quite afford acid spray in crucible because you need some defense. At best a plaguebearer Chaos MI, sword, scepter or axe, dagger
Games not balanced around crucible nor should it be. Any comment I make will be about main campaign where the balance matters. And you can stack more then 80 chaos rr.
Personally rr is a stupid mechanic and should be a lot less of all kinds. It just becomes mandatory severely crippling build and gear choices.

Last edited by sfbistimg; 02-14-2018 at 09:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:46 AM
toilagamer852 toilagamer852 is offline
Speaker
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 52
Default

Quote:
Definitely wouldn't mind adding chaos RR to Bloody Pox or even DEE. CoF doesn't need a buff.
True, I wouldn't mind -rr on chaos being added to other skills, not necessarily CoF, as long as that -rr is on Occultist mastery.

Quote:
There are several items that add to CoF already. Mythical Codex of Lies adds Aether damage and I have a medal that adds vitality or fire (not sure).
Again, I would like to refer back to my own argument of how GEAR DEPENDENT it is for chaos damage to get a decent -rr. And if you mention about that offhand, I would also like to present to you Mythical Tome of Names (-20% ele res, 100% chance on crit). You see, chaos is nowhere comparable to other popular damage types here, not anywhere close. When I can wear any !@#$ I want and still get -130 rr to ele res, I have to triple, even quadruple my effort to gear up to get that same amount of -rr on chaos.

I don't understand why people keep mentioning different gears that provide -rr on chaos to prove the point "you see, chaos damage is just as good", as if elemental, vit, bleed did not have such gears. Many fail to realize that if you count skills, devotions and items together, you can get close to -200 rr on elemental for example. Now please tell me if by any means chaos damage manages to achieve close to that figure????????

In main game, fine, do what you want, but Crucible is a super unforgiving place where defense is almost the only thing that matters. The idea of gearing up exactly to a certain format to get that decent -rr on chaos res is simply suicidal. Good luck with that.

Quote:
You can't quite afford acid spray in crucible because you need some defense.
Thanks for pointing it out. At least change the devotion to something that support all damages (doesn't matter if it is low). The idea of sacrificing 4 useless devotion points (5th one is on Acid Spray). Even then, the only useful thing you get is -rr flat (if you don't play acid/poison damage). Look at Elemental Storm, proc rate is higher, -rr flat is higher, and the additional damages provided is actually nice. And did I mention I only need to invest 3 points to get Elemental Storm instead of 5 points to get Acid Spray?

Last edited by toilagamer852; 02-14-2018 at 09:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-14-2018, 01:31 PM
Jackdaw's Avatar
Jackdaw Jackdaw is offline
Counsel
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 305
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by toilagamer852 View Post
True, I wouldn't mind -rr on chaos being added to other skills, not necessarily CoF, as long as that -rr is on Occultist mastery.


Again, I would like to refer back to my own argument of how GEAR DEPENDENT it is for chaos damage to get a decent -rr. And if you mention about that offhand, I would also like to present to you Mythical Tome of Names (-20% ele res, 100% chance on crit). You see, chaos is nowhere comparable to other popular damage types here, not anywhere close. When I can wear any !@#$ I want and still get -130 rr to ele res, I have to triple, even quadruple my effort to gear up to get that same amount of -rr on chaos.

I don't understand why people keep mentioning different gears that provide -rr on chaos to prove the point "you see, chaos damage is just as good", as if elemental, vit, bleed did not have such gears. Many fail to realize that if you count skills, devotions and items together, you can get close to -200 rr on elemental for example. Now please tell me if by any means chaos damage manages to achieve close to that figure????????

In main game, fine, do what you want, but Crucible is a super unforgiving place where defense is almost the only thing that matters. The idea of gearing up exactly to a certain format to get that decent -rr on chaos res is simply suicidal. Good luck with that.
I recall someone somewhere stating that Chaos was going to be one of the enemies' main damage types and that the idea was changed quite late. The lack of -rr could be a byproduct of that process. I actually agree with your point about -rr but I wouldn't know how to solve it without running the risk of screwing something else up. The items with -rr are mentioned simply to show that some do exist, not to say that Chaos is equal to x,y,z. I'd like to see more, or the ones we have improved. We can all come up with sledge hammer solutions but providing a solution that doesn't unbalance things is up to the devs.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-15-2018, 08:27 AM
Jackdaw's Avatar
Jackdaw Jackdaw is offline
Counsel
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 305
Default

A quick question now that I'm suitably bewildered. Does Essence of Ch'Thon combine if I place it on both off-hand and main-hand? I.e. will it give me two rolls at 15% chance to -rr?

Last edited by Jackdaw; 02-15-2018 at 12:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Grim Dawn ©2018 Crate Entertainment, LLC.
vBulletin® 3.8.4 ©2000-2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.