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View Poll Results: What is your opinion of the Crucible as a whole?
Crucible is fine - it's the best way to test build viability. 8 13.79%
Survival Horde Mode is fine but Mutators are too much. 3 5.17%
Survival Horde Mode is fine but Wave ___ just takes all the fun out of it. 4 6.90%
Survival Horde Mode is fine but we need more equipment buffs so we can actually beat it. 5 8.62%
The very concept of survival horde mode makes me violently ill. 10 17.24%
If Crucible didn't exist, the same people would be complaining about the next difficult thing. 28 48.28%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:43 PM
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DID NOT READ THREAD

I don't really agree with any of these, so abstaining from voting. I guess the closest to my perception of truth is the last one, but I ultimately disagree with it to be honest. I don't think the main campaign features anything that is as isolating as the Crucible.

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Crucible is fine - it's the best way to test build viability.
I guess that depends on what you want something to be viable for. Viable for Gladiator? Then yeah, you gotta test it in Crucible. But because enemies in Crucible do substantially less damage and have monumentally less health than they would in the campaign, but come in far greater numbers, I don't think you can make any inferences from one to the other.

Edit: For instance, I've made several builds that perform exceptionally better in Crucible than they do in the campaign. That said, the vast majority of my builds are campaign-centric.
Quote:
Survival Horde Mode is fine but Mutators are too much.
I don't have a problem with mutators. Can they roll really poorly in conjunction with the enemy rolls you get and wind up fucking you over? Sure. But isn't that the point?
Quote:
Survival Horde Mode is fine but Wave ___ just takes all the fun out of it.
Wave 1+.

I'll posit an idea here: Crucible's "fun" has been warped by farming. What if the Crucible was never originally intended to be farmed, but was instead intended to be played?
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Survival Horde Mode is fine but we need more equipment buffs so we can actually beat it.
Isn't this just the last poll option? If you raise the floor or ceiling all that does is change what people complain about rather than actually tackling the issues of their complaints. I don't mean to say that equipment doesn't need buffs here and there, but buffing something for the purpose of enabling it to tackle something that's innately broken feels a little ass-backwards, don't you think?
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The very concept of survival horde mode makes me violently ill.

Quote:
If Crucible didn't exist, the same people would be complaining about the next difficult thing.
I mean, we already have plenty of Ekket/Grava/Kuba complaints, so I don't see the issue.

Last edited by Ceno; 12-14-2017 at 05:47 PM.
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  #32  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MortalKombat View Post
Crucible is just the most challenging endgame content.
What will you do to show that your build is badass? Will you show how he kills Zaria the Carver? Or maybe you'll show how he performs against much more challenging foes? I am 95% sure it will be the latter.
But it's not *an endgame content*. It's a DLC, an optional install, it isn't required to be in your game files for a game to be operational. Dungeons are endgame content. Nemesises are endgame content. Crucible is not. It's a literal Survival Mode, that somehow influences the main game, which it shoudn't be doing.
I'll be showing off my build killing Nemesises, Ravager, Mog, MQ. That's what makes it viable without hindering my eyesight with constant Crucible spam everywhere in the build section.

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Originally Posted by x1x1x1x2 View Post
1. Crucible does not hinder build creativity. The desire to be the best does.
This can be easily aplied for the Campaign content. The problem is, Crucible is optional, but it still influences people to build characters oriented on it, since this is where all the cool guys are hanging out. Many people are just playing GD for fun, so they simply search for the best... which is Crucible, of course. So they promote these builds further, then everything goes straight in-line with Crucible requirements. No one mentions Campaign content anymore.
So yeah, it does hinders creativity. Especially for RET, pet, Aura builds in particular.

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Originally Posted by x1x1x1x2 View Post
2. Even if we pretend that Crucible does not exist, the best and most popular builds will most likely be the same. maybe add SS builds to that. Just tweak the builds in the glad farmer list into more offense rather than defense for more dps and you're set. S&b will still be the most recommended because it's safe to play while still dealing good damage. Dot builds will still have the same core albeit squishier due to more kiting room.
Maybe so, but it will broaden people's mindsets about creating more colourful builds instead of relying on the same rehashed concepts of Gladiator farmers. There should be a strict separation between these contents, but it doesn't exist here. We might as well consider Crucible a part of the main game now.

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Originally Posted by Ceno View Post
I don't have a problem with mutators. Can they roll really poorly in conjunction with the enemy rolls you get and wind up fucking you over? Sure. But isn't that the point?
But that doesn't really make it a challenge anymore, does it? Since it's based on luck. Luck does not equal challenge, there is no skill here.

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Originally Posted by Ceno View Post
I'll posit an idea here: Crucible's "fun" has been warped by farming. What if the Crucible was never originally intended to be farmed, but was instead intended to be played?
Very good suggestion, actually. Instead of mindless farming, it can serve as a actual testing grounds for your skill area.
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Last edited by Autentist; 12-14-2017 at 05:51 PM.
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  #33  
Old 12-14-2017, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Autentist View Post
But that doesn't really make it a challenge anymore, does it? Since it's based on luck. Luck does not equal challenge, there is no skill here.
I've been playing lots of Vermintide lately (in preparation for Vermintide 2). In that game, which is a horde-survival game like L4D/2 but with an immensely higher skill ceiling, there are some things that can randomly happen that will 100% result in a party wipe.

And they're all exhilaratingly fun.

Turning a corner and running into a Stormvermin Patrol that promptly wipes out your party in a narrow environment is among the most fun I've had in gaming in years. I think fighting against that inevitability is the origin of that fun, and perhaps is why people play Hardcore in GD/PoE/etc. One day or another, your HC character is inevitably going to die, and it may be very likely that there's nothing you can do to stop it. Having such risk, when coupled with uncontrollable factors - like Crucible mutators - must certainly get one's heart beating, no?

Point being, the challenge would still be there, it would just be insurmountable.
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  #34  
Old 12-14-2017, 06:10 PM
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That crucible is used as a metric is natural, there aren't many to begin with. That some people raise attitudes from that is more like those people's problems. And maybe of those who take it all personally. Its not the game's content fault.

And nothing really prevents you from experimenting or posting except you.
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  #35  
Old 12-14-2017, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceno View Post
I'll posit an idea here: Crucible's "fun" has been warped by farming. What if the Crucible was never originally intended to be farmed, but was instead intended to be played?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autentist View Post
Very good suggestion, actually. Instead of mindless farming, it can serve as a actual testing grounds for your skill area.
Sounds good. Remove all reward chests.
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  #36  
Old 12-14-2017, 06:21 PM
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No, crucible is not a test for builds, if you play campaign there is no need to stretch defenses so much as it happens with crucible.

Yes it detrimental to build variety, like any other "stress test" : raise the bar and demand more optimization aka less options.

Personally, despite i bought crucible dlc on day 1, i played it for few hours only because i find it boring BUT i have nothing against who loves it. Probably there are people around playing only crucible and it's ok.

What i don't like is "can't clear crucible gladiator = shit" attitude, that hurts game possibilities and just has no sense in a singleplayer game with ZERO competion and all possible cheats available. It's not D3 where you have to farm the high grifts fast or you won't upgrade your gems or be paragon lvl 6000000000 and i thank god everyday for that.
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  #37  
Old 12-14-2017, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhylthar View Post
Kilrian´s is true but for other components:
Dismantle your spare legendaries. You get tons of scrap and other components you need. I only dismantle epics and have enough components to build allmost everything.
Sure, i can use Dismantling. Sadly, Dismantling requires Dynamite, and i must either farm for it manually, or farm for Aether Shards, Searing Embers and Scavenged Plating. The latter two arent that easy to farm, especially Searing Ember. Maybe, if you have tons of spare dynamite or Searing Ember/Scavenged plating.. I dont.
Dismantling legendaries yields tons of blood/brain/heart and missive/spirit/mutagen, as well as tons of rare components. But i already have shit tons of those rare components and crafting materials! Dismantling doesnt yield much Ugdenblood, so i have to farm it. It also NEVER produced Chtonian Seal of binding (and some crafts require ridiculous amounts of them), so i have to exterminate Bloodsworn in cosmic proportions to farm some. And i also need Chipped Claws, Serrates Spikes, Ectoplasm, and tons of other components for crafting...
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  #38  
Old 12-14-2017, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
The latter two arent that easy to farm, especially Searing Ember.
Maybe I´m lucky but nearly every vendor ingame sells 1 or 2. Farming means rifting around to the different vendors and buy them.
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  #39  
Old 12-14-2017, 06:56 PM
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DID NOT READ ALL THREAD (nor previous one being mentionned in the original post)

There is two thing wrong in the Build Section one of them is not at all related to the topic at hand so I'm gonna jump over. The other one is simple enough

Crucible is the only factor in posting build

I gave myself the objective of building one character *PER CLASS* and I love the Set Item concept since they have existed (well I did started with them in Diablo 2) so I want to mix that "love of set" with the objective of 1 Character *per class*

That 28 Characters most of them based around a Set that is probably 22 character that will never make Crucible (I see IK Sorcerer, Warborn Commando, Dreeg Witchblade and 2-3 more as still being viable Crucible farmer with AoM content). 22 of them that based on what people see as the *standard* here would get look down by the "elitist crowd" so even if I was the kind of guy that wanna have fun writing guide it would serve no purpose.

Other thing that this "Crucible farmer mentality is bringing" is that 99% of the build around are based on perfect MI (most of them created using a program) and push people to believe "only such thing work". It also remove any and all kind of leveling concept or "on the way item to look for".

Getting side tracked here but a note on that Lazy Pokemon Build that everyone laugh at on Discord. Yeah it is far from optimal but it had item and skill at every 10 level range which made it into something that anyone not even knowing the game could look at and learn from!

I also miss those *No MI* / *All Blue* / Strange conversion concept. Yeah they ain't optimal but they are fun and I'm playing to have fun not to Cruci Farm with Cheated Item (why Farm if you are creating item anyway?)
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  #40  
Old 12-14-2017, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhylthar View Post
Maybe I´m lucky but nearly every vendor ingame sells 1 or 2. Farming means rifting around to the different vendors and buy them.
Scavenged Plating? Yes. Searing Ember? Not that often. To get any meaningfu amount (10, 20, 50) it requires a lot of time running between vendor to buy their components....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kralw View Post
Other thing that this "Crucible farmer mentality is bringing" is that 99% of the build around are based on perfect MI (most of them created using a program) and push people to believe "only such thing work". It also remove any and all kind of leveling concept or "on the way item to look for".

Getting side tracked here but a note on that Lazy Pokemon Build that everyone laugh at on Discord. Yeah it is far from optimal but it had item and skill at every 10 level range which made it into something that anyone not even knowing the game could look at and learn from!

I also miss those *No MI* / *All Blue* / Strange conversion concept. Yeah they ain't optimal but they are fun and I'm playing to have fun not to Cruci Farm with Cheated Item (why Farm if you are creating item anyway?)
I agree, it's wrong mentality. I dont know about other builds, but i assure you, that for MY build (you can see link in my signature), i farmed all items in LEGIT way (btw that rare + maxic affix non-MI ring cost me 10kk iron bits spent for crafting), and i never encourage using perfect-rolled MI's or something. I made my build myself, using item i found myself, so i can be sure than every other player will be able to do the same, and wont ask me "what should i equip instead that double-rare MI that is impossible to obtain?". Yet, my build still stomps Gladiator Crucible as well as all AoM content and nemesises. Even the lack of some BiS items wont stop him from being powerful. That's the key feature of really strong build, in my opinion. And that's what i'm really proud of!
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Last edited by MortalKombat; 12-14-2017 at 07:44 PM.
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