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  #21  
Old 12-04-2017, 08:45 PM
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Tycho Tycho is offline
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Originally Posted by eisprinzessin View Post
I feel this kind of gambling is OK, if it is paid by a minor's pocket money. To some degree this is part of growing up.
Pocket money? Probably ok, as there's a much harder limit on how badly they can mess up with that. But the concept of pocket money is increasingly disappearing and being replaced by "parents' credit card", it seems. That's where things start to really get hairy.

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Originally Posted by eisprinzessin View Post
What I do not know is, if parents can set a spending limit in the Origin client, or if they can reclaim any money if they do not agree to a pricy purchase (i.e. exceeds the pocket money of 3 months). German law requires this, but is it applicable here? And shouldn't banks limit how much money a minor can use from his savings?
To the first: it should absolutely be a feature to cap any spending done, particularly by a minor. I don't know if it is because I avoided Origin like the plague. I doubt EA would institute such a policy willingly, because they want whales (individuals who spend ungodly sums on microtransactions and such). To the second: it's been a pretty long time since I was a minor with a bank account, so I don't know if they do anything of the sort these days. It would be exceedingly wise to institute such things (making it so that any large transactions/withdrawals - or a series of transactions/withdrawals within a given time frame that add up to a certain amount - requires oversight by parent or something similar would be very wise).

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Originally Posted by eisprinzessin View Post
Is that even the point why people complain about EA, or is this how they try to hold them accountable?
The biggest thing with Battlefront 2's microtransaction scheme is that it was ON TOP OF a $60 up-front purchase price, the microtransaction costs to unlock all game content were exorbitant (well over $2000 IIRC) and the time required to unlock without microtransactions was absolutely absurd, and it had potential for "pay to win" controversy (because EA already did exactly that with Battlefield Heroes). You'll note that ultimately not many people complained super-hard about the microtransactions in TF2 (even though TF2 has a very notable whale problem) because cosmetics and side-grade weapons are entirely optional to begin with and don't really constitute much in the way of exciting game content (unlike being able to play as a hero character with a unique skill set and weaponry would constitute). You can wring pretty much all the fun you desire out of TF2's gameplay without actually spending much money at all post-F2P. This did not look like it was going to be the case with Battlefront 2.

Also, people are still REALLY unhappy about how Battlefront 1 turned out, and rightly so.

EDIT: Also also, people really really hate EA and for very good reasons. So Battlefront 2, even with the "prints money" buff granted by being Star Wars related, could ill afford to cause even more controversy than EA usually causes, and it did just that.

Last edited by Tycho; 12-04-2017 at 09:29 PM.
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  #22  
Old 12-04-2017, 09:20 PM
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Rhylthar Rhylthar is offline
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Quote:
What I do not know is, if parents can set a spending limit in the Origin client, or if they can reclaim any money if they do not agree to a pricy purchase (i.e. exceeds the pocket money of 3 months). German law requires this, but is it applicable here? And shouldn't banks limit how much money a minor can use from his savings?
Hm, that´s not totally correct.

Any purchase contract with a minor older than 6 but younger than 18 can be reclaimed by the parents, if it exceeds pocket money of 1 month. Saving up money is not intended.
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  #23  
Old 12-04-2017, 09:43 PM
Kralw Kralw is offline
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The issue I see with EA is kinda in 2 part (and that's gonna save a lot of others)

A) In-Game Advantage (Loot Box Cosmetic in game like Heroes of the Storm doesn't allow you to be stronger so you are gambling.....and gaining nothing (most of those Transaction are made with in-game currency but pretty sure other game give access to a random loot for a cheaper price than their "top cosmetic" (I know League at least did it during some period of time in the past)

B) On-Top of actual Game itself. Take a look at SuperCard...you can buy Pack of Card between level X and Y getting the top one is rewarding getting the bottom one not so much but you are spending wishing for the best option but at least you didn't spend up-front just to have the ability to PLAY the damn game.

C) The difference with CCG is you are actually buying the Game (I know 15 card booster doesn't allow you to play the game by itself but they are part of the game). They are also physical item which have a production cost and a limitation in quantity. Those Micro-Transaction for virtual item are purely printing cash and cost nothing.
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2017, 09:50 PM
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eisprinzessin eisprinzessin is offline
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Originally Posted by Rhylthar View Post
Hm, that´s not totally correct.

Any purchase contract with a minor older than 6 but younger than 18 can be reclaimed by the parents, if it exceeds pocket money of 1 month. Saving up money is not intended.
I got that from another thread (scroll a bit down to the long answer, if you understand German). Wikipedia states German law has no specified limit.
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  #25  
Old 12-05-2017, 02:19 AM
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Rhylthar Rhylthar is offline
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Well, I´m no lawyer.

Just a teacher who has to teach this once a year. But you´re right:
Spoiler!
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  #26  
Old 12-05-2017, 08:52 AM
evertebrate evertebrate is offline
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Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
Still, the "oh no, the government's getting involved, where will they stop" scare tactic is a really unsurprising move because I'll be the first to admit that it's founded in a legitimate fear,[...]
I would love to know why it is a "legitimate fear" for gamers. I can't speak for us all, but I live in a free democratic country and laws are made by our representatives and not just at the whims of someone. These laws are always carefully crafted and the video game industry also has their lobbyists standing by to make sure it won't destroy their companies.
And these gambling laws are not just for children. Stating the odds and adding a warning that it can be addicitive is good for everyone. This is not about banning video games or even trading card games. It is also not really about finding out if loot boxes are gambling, it is about finding out if current laws that define gambling are out of date. Most of these laws were made before the digital era and have to be adjusted.
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  #27  
Old 12-05-2017, 02:17 PM
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Tycho Tycho is offline
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Originally Posted by evertebrate View Post
I would love to know why it is a "legitimate fear" for gamers. I can't speak for us all, but I live in a free democratic country and laws are made by our representatives and not just at the whims of someone. These laws are always carefully crafted and the video game industry also has their lobbyists standing by to make sure it won't destroy their companies.
See the near-miss we had with the Mortal Kombat/Doom/etc. "violent games" controversy peddled primarily by Lieberman and some others that very nearly resulted in mass censorship until the video game companies created the ESRB and promised to self-regulate. Other countries ended up worse for wear: in Germany, for example, a LOT of games get outright censored for blood or any number of other criteria.

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Originally Posted by evertebrate View Post
And these gambling laws are not just for children. Stating the odds and adding a warning that it can be addicitive is good for everyone. This is not about banning video games or even trading card games. It is also not really about finding out if loot boxes are gambling, it is about finding out if current laws that define gambling are out of date. Most of these laws were made before the digital era and have to be adjusted.
It's not about banning them, no, it's about the government getting an in to regulate video games and possibly doing things that NO ONE wants.
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  #28  
Old 12-08-2017, 10:05 AM
evertebrate evertebrate is offline
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Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
[...]in Germany, for example, a LOT of games get outright censored for blood or any number of other criteria.
I live in Germany and the reason for that is that our laws don't consider video games works of art. That is an entirely different problem though, also caused by outdated laws. Either way, I think a lot of laws need to be updated. The loot box thing only got to be a problem because companies can adapt to technological changes much faster than governments. Replace money with ingame currencies and rewards with digital goods and suddenly no gambling laws are appliable.
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