Items: 3 modifiers?

[ZorusX]

Hmm, It is true that TQ did not have the rares that D2 did. I think in TQ they attempted to replace them with the green class I described above. As well as creating the blue class which were 'weaker' uniques/legendaries, but still had preset stats. Yerk is correct in noting that TQ had no version of diablo 2 rares (I think it was 6 attributes max). I would really like to see these back in Grim Dawn as well.

Diablo II's loot system was really spot on, to be honest.

[ZorusX]

Greens:

powerful magic item with either 1 or 2 mods EXCEPT that the mods available to choose from contained multiple attributes.

lets do an example. Note that I don't remember what the exact names were in TQ.

Sharp longsword of lightning
+5 maximum damage (for 'sharp')
+1-55 lightning damage (for 'of lightning')

vs.

Veteran's longsword of health
+50 damage (for 'Veteran's')
+12% offensive ability (also from 'Veteran's')
+88 health

Remember that diablo 2 also had this with blue (magic) items! Remember those 3/20/20's!?

Fine Small Charm of Vita
+3 maximum damage (from 'fine')
+20 attack rating (also from 'fine')
+20 health (from 'of Vita')

You are right though, if we add another prefix, say, we can get 4 attributes!
What if we had?

Furious Veteran's longsword of health
+50 damage (for 'Veteran's')
+12% offensive ability (also from 'Veteran's')
+88 health (from 'of health')
+15% attack speed (from 'furious')

But this brings me to the point I was originally trying to make, and which Yerk reiterated: If we're going to already be at 4 attributes on an uncommon, we might as well make these rare "3 affix/suffix" uncommons 'rare' items which have 3-6 randomly generated prefixes or suffixes. Just like in Diablo 2!

we might as well call
Furious Veteran's longsword of health
+50 damage (for 'Veteran's')
+12% offensive ability (also from 'Veteran's')
+88 health (from 'of health')
+15% attack speed (from 'furious')

Chaos Ravager
+50 damage
+12% offensive ability
+88 health
+15% attack speed

[eisprinzessin]

I wonder if adding more, but weaker affixes to items can actually work out.

• On the one hand you might get an indifferent mix of bonuses and it does not really matter, which item you equip. From a different context, but it illustrates medierra's approach:

  Originally Posted by medierra

  I think a distinctive moment where you get a jump in power is much more exciting than a slow, unnoticeable progression.

• On the other hand having several, diverse mediocre affixes on your items should usually result in an overall balanced set-up. I remember from TQ, that I often could not equip a powerful item, because I had to unequip another with important resistances. But I think this is mitigated in GD because of the additional equipment slots, so that there are more options to cover your weaknesses.

Not having played Diablo I daresay, that GD will be better off with less affixes on items, which can be more distinct and powerful then.

[FlapJacks]

Zorus, if I understand what you're saying correctly, I think it would be better to have random items with 3 or more affixes/suffixes such as "Furious Veteran's longsword of health" rather than naming them, as this might limit the number of possible affix/suffix combinations to the number that they felt like giving names to, and some combinations simply wouldn't exist, because all items that weren't uniques like "Chaos Ravager" would be limited to only two affixes/suffixes, correct?

And if all of the three or more-affixed/suffixed items were uniquely named but DIDN'T have fixed stats and effects, I would think it might become a little hard to tell what an item will do by its name, when one Chaos Ravager could give attack speed and vitality damage, while another item of the same name gives mana regen and lightning damage. I haven't played a lot of Diablo II, so I'm not sure if this is how it works on there, but it seems like it could become a bit confusing.

[ZorusX]

FlapJacks in diablo 2, for rares, the name is not attached to stats at all. everytime a rare drops it generates a random set of attributes (3 to 6) and a random name for the rare.

The name is created from two lists. I think each list has 50 or so names. That gives a good amount of possibilities. Also, along with each unique name will be the rare's stats themselves which will be unique.

The chances of two identical items is basically nil. Though you might see the same name combo eventually if you play the game enough.

I dunno, I'm biased anyways. I loved rares in diablo II (and crafteds). IDing a high level base item or rings and amulets was pretty exciting because you could potentially get something better than any of the uniques (legendaries). I guess I'd just like to see it GD. (Powerful randomly generated items, not IDing)

[varsovie]

Originally Posted by ZorusX

The name is created from two lists. I think each list has 50 or so names. That gives a good amount of possibilities. Also, along with each unique name will be the rare's stats themselves which will be unique.

It would be nice to have random names for affix. In TQ, if you wanted more Mana, you always had something "of the apprentice". Maybe a list of 3 to 5 names for each affix (or at least common ones) could enhance the loot a little.

[FlapJacks]

Ah, thanks for the info, Zorus. I, too, would like to see more crafting come into GD than TQ, and not just with artifacts, but unique and cool pieces of armor and weapons as well, if it could be implemented. And I know it's not really of any actual use, but I for some reason enjoy the identifying system of games like Diablo and Fate; I had forgotten about that. I guess it's like having to wait to open your presents, or immediately knowing what you're getting. I'd rather open presents.

[eisprinzessin]

Originally Posted by varsovie

It would be nice to have random names for affix. In TQ, if you wanted more Mana, you always had something "of the apprentice". Maybe a list of 3 to 5 names for each affix (or at least common ones) could enhance the loot a little.

No, I find it rather helpful, that an affix name comes with a fixed set of bonuses (the numbers vary within limits in TQ) - this way you have an (almost) immediate understanding of what the item is offering, if you found an item with the same affix before.

TQ has different versions for a class of affixes - I think the upgrade to "of the apprentice" is "of the scholar". I'd like to see this return in GD.

... and don't expect IDing ...

[mamba]

Originally Posted by eisprinzessin

No, I find it rather helpful, that an affix name comes with a fixed set of bonuses (the numbers vary within limits in TQ) - this way you have an (almost) immediate understanding of what the item is offering, if you found an item with the same affix before.

TQ has different versions for a class of affixes - I think the upgrade to "of the apprentice" is "of the scholar". I'd like to see this return in GD..

completely agree, this way you immediately know what each items effects are, instead of items with the same name having completely different bonuses

[medierra]

Not sure why you are assuming an additional affix needs to be tacked on to add more attributes. A rare affix can have any number of attributes, it isn't limited to two. It is also possible to get double-rare items. In Grim Dawn you can even get double-rare, unique items where the item has its own magical attributes and then also receives affixes.