The make or break pinpoint pointout in ARPGs for myself

[madned]

Originally Posted by Sampe

This captures my idea better than my own post.. Never been good with transferring thougts out of my head.

transferring is easy. just start typing, eventually it end up out there somewhere.

having them make sense to others is hard. sleep helps. so does being cruel to your posts and squeezing them until the jelly comes out. and then trashing it all and starting over a couple times. about which time you forget what you were trying to say and the browser times out so you gotta start again

[TheFishMonger]

I think the important thing with loot in an ARPG is to make sure that there are a lot of unique items in the since that while the majority of items differ in small to moderate ways (such as in stats and speed, and chance-to x) another great thing is making a small number of items (not just for end game either but more so for end level) that fill a very specific role. For instance, there are certain weapons in diablo 2 that really aren't too great for many classes, but for a particular class with a certain build it may be the best or one of the best items for that slot in the game.

It's been a while so I can't think of many but there was a certain weapon that a lot of fire bear druids wanted just because it had such a quick attack speed.

[Calvin]

In Grim Dawn, it was ridiculous how rare it was for a Unique item to be better or even just as good as a rare with a relic piece in it.

I don't know how many cool-looking uniques I had to throw away upon finding just because the rare with the relic piece in it made it far superior. If you could put the relics in the uniques, that would be another story.

[madned]

Originally Posted by Calvin

In Grim Dawn, it was ridiculous how rare it was for a Unique item to be better or even just as good as a rare with a relic piece in it.

i tink you're projecting either to or from the future. or exhibiting freudian slippage, no wait that's not right, well maybe if you think about posting like uh, er, relationships.

on a slightly different note, for some reason i just reinstalled and started playing hellgate london again. gameplay's a bit stiff (like oh say NWN, essentially turn based, masked with animations), but itemy stuff is still kinda neat. retains a bit of chance and does a good job with trash gear handling and enchantment construction.
Making perfect gear is still horribly chancy, but the raw materials are pretty straightforward to acquire and even if spoiled most constructed gear is still useful. the item level-mod level thing is weird still, but i suppose you need a little churn.

[The Madman]

I agree with OP that loot is the make-or-break point for me when it comes to an arpg. Generally, you know what you're gunna get with the combat system, or your character models, etc. But when you've got an itemization system that just blows, it totally ruins the game for me. I have no doubt that with all the cannon fodder of arpgs that are on the market presently, that Crate is going to take some things from multiple different places, including their own brains, and make a system that makes weapons and armor very good. From my brief time here at the TQ/GD community, I have complete faith in these Devs.

[Calvin]

Originally Posted by madned

i tink you're projecting either to or from the future. or exhibiting freudian slippage, no wait that's not right, well maybe if you think about posting like uh, er, relationships.

Please, explain to me what you're babbling about... because I can't pick up on it.

[eisprinzessin]

madned tried to find an explanation for how you can talk about loot in GD.

Originally Posted by Calvin

In Grim Dawn, it was ridiculous how rare it was for a Unique item to be better or even just as good as a rare with a relic piece in it.

Do you mean TQ?

[jayd]

Personally I have 2 points, in order:

1) An abundance of interesting classes / skills to make me want to create alts
2) Loot (as you stated)

I need the combination, otherwise it starts to get boring and repetitive.
Given how Titan Quest really nailed #1 for me, I think Grim Dawn will do just fine there. So that puts me in agreement with you.

That said, I would be really interested to see the end game evolve a bit in this genre. Factions could be a good start, depending upon how they use them.

[mamba]

Originally Posted by Calvin

In Grim Dawn, it was ridiculous how rare it was for a Unique item to be better or even just as good as a rare with a relic piece in it.

I don't know how many cool-looking uniques I had to throw away upon finding just because the rare with the relic piece in it made it far superior. If you could put the relics in the uniques, that would be another story.

When you are talking about epic gear (and TQ, obviously ), I probably agree, there were not that many good pieces. When talking about legendary high-end gear however, I usually prefer the uniques over the rares. The rares had higher armor / more DPS, but they lack protection, +skills etc,. so to me the uniques were the better option.