WASD Movement

[loudermp]

I pretty much do not use wasd keys in a game using isometric view, but maybe some people do.

[mamba]

Originally Posted by Seronx

      // TODO: Arrows are not working, fix later, for now use WASD

A guy made a script to do WASD

If you are talking about the code above, that is not enough to actually move your character, it only determines the direction he should be walking in (and even that is incomplete).

I'll quote him this is way back in 2009

"WASD is very very easy to implement in a fixed camera 3D or even a 2.5D isometric tile based game. Much easier than point and click movement."

it may be, but just because it is easy does not mean it is a good choice

"I have to say, I was very disappointed when I read this thread. I thought this genre had moved past point and click."

I am happy it has not, as I prefer it over WASD, I guess tastes differ

and another dev....This one seems to have worked with Mythos...I am pretty sure Mythos had WASD controls before Flagship went broke

"For the record, not doing WASD is not a technical problem - It's purely one of design and gameplay.
We tried it out in Mythos, and allowed numerous different styles of play, but we were in the end unhappy with WASD controls and the pace of gameplay."

QED

[yerkyerk]

Originally Posted by mamba

If you are talking about the code above, that is not enough to actually move your character, it only determines the direction he should be walking in (and even that is incomplete).

Myeah, the thing is, writing functions for speed at y and x coordinates isn't difficult at all. Nor is the difficulty of implementing WASD controls the issue at hand.

If TQIT was open source, I have no doubt there'd be a WASD control mod available within a week after it went open source. If it'd be any good, well, that's a totally different question. It's hard to tell.. some ARPG's did it right, some messed up.

One thing to notice though, nobody is asking for a replacement, instead, people are requesting a supplement to the point and click movement.

One problem with WASD would be that the player has much better control over his heroes movement (allowing him to dodge easier, which probably has a significant impact on balance), but has a harder time juggling the number of keys necessary for using skills (although with practice, I think the WASD scheme offers more benefits).

Would WASD be better? No, it should definitely not remove the point and click. Would it make a nice supplement? I like to think so, but unless it's actually implemented, we're not going to find out.

[mamba]

Originally Posted by yerkyerk

Myeah, the thing is, writing functions for speed at y and x coordinates isn't difficult at all. Nor is the difficulty of implementing WASD controls the issue at hand.

agreed, just didn't want others to have the impression that those 20 or so lines are all that is needed

[Seronx]

WASD movement is indeed better

I can prove it but only if WASD is included

[yerkyerk]

Originally Posted by mamba

agreed, just didn't want others to have the impression that those 20 or so lines are all that is needed

Heh, well, the random google searchers will thank you one day for pointing it out

[Seronx]

Originally Posted by yerkyerk

Heh, well, the random google searchers will thank you one day for pointing it out

Those 20 lines are all that is needed

There is some variations depending how the engine is scripted(C#, C, C++, .Net, XNA) and how you want WASD movement to coordinate with mouse x,y

[mamba]

Originally Posted by Seronx

Those 20 lines are all that is needed

There is some variations depending how the engine is scripted(C#, C, C++, .Net, XNA) and how you want WASD movement to coordinate with mouse x,y

You need more. As I said, there is no actual movement included, just the determination of directions. Plus you can actually walk north, south, east and west all at the same time (not quite sure what would actually happen in that case, the code certainly allows all directions at once, but as I said, the actual movement is missing).

[medierra]

Actually adding the ability to move your char based on WASD wouldn't be too difficult. You just wouldn't be able to use half the skills in the game properly.

We actually implemented WASD on a TQ2 prototype when I was at ILE and it was kind of cool, although a totally different game (we'd turned the camera into 3rd-person over the shoulder). However, a lot of extra work would have been required to make it work with the existing skill system, balance it, and make it not feel like a total hack.

I think it is also much easier to design and balance the game around one control scheme. I'd really only want to go WASD if we were creating a new game where that was going to be the only control scheme. Trying to support both is very difficult and most games that try suffer from it. At the very least, one control scheme ends up being more advantageous than the other.

I guess I'd also point out that developers in the quotes posted above indicate that they have ultimately chosen not to support WASD because they didn't feel it would be beneficial to the game.

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

Originally Posted by medierra

I think it is also much easier to design and balance the game around one control scheme. I'd really only want to go WASD if we were creating a new game where that was going to be the only control scheme. Trying to support both is very difficult and most games that try suffer from it. At the very least, one control scheme ends up being more advantageous than the other.

Dang it. Beat me to it. Even though I in theory prefer pretty much anything over the standard ARPG click-to-move controls, in practice I tend to forget about it if the game is enough fun otherwise (e.g. TQ), and I would prefer not to have the option to change it for exactly the reasons you listed.

The input device or control scheme used dictates a lot more of the game design and balance than a lot of people seem to realize, and if you change it too much, often several other things about the game than just the controls also have to be changed to account/compensate for it. It can become dramatically easier or harder to do certain things if fundamental parts of the controls are changed like movement or aiming, and it's not always possible to keep it balanced and fun to play with too many control options that are too different from each other.

Anyone who hasn't seen it yet might find this discussion about input and balance differences between console and PC by one of the Monday Night Combat guys interesting. He addresses exactly some of these kinds of things and how they affect gameplay.