Mastery Respecs are Good for the Game

[Scryer]

Masteries are much like classes, you pick and combine 2 different types of masteries to create your own style of play.

Some people pick masteries that they don't end up enjoying, or that they end up not liking.

When this happens people have 1 option and only 1 option that is to remake their character, and level them up again.

Giving players the option to respec their masteries at high levels for a high cost may help alleviate this problem and give players a new goal.

Mastery respec is not cheating, in fact it'd be an option given to every player. How many times have you leveled a mastery and realized "I really hate the way this guy plays!"? I have more then once.

Finally, how many games don't let you change your class the way a mastery respec would let you? What's wrong with giving the player an option, even if it's a very hard to attain option?

I say break away from tradition. How does mastery respec break the game if it's hard to do? Why does giving the option make the game worse? If you can't answer these questions sufficiently, then you are arbitrarily taking away an option from the player base.

I put it to you that it would make the game better, and much more flexible. The game's purpose is to collect gear, modify gear, and gain power. Why should a player be limited to their initial masteries especially if they ended up not liking them? If they do like their masteries then mastery respec is not needed, it's just an option!

- Two Things About Implementation -

- Make mastery respecs either only available at only really high levels, or at lower levels (- 30, or + 180)

- Make Mastery respec a VERY high cost.

- Or give it a Very High cost and make it limited per character. (I.E. not unlimited respecs, just limited)

Ultimately, I think this will give players another goal, and another gold sink. It will give the game a ton of re-playability especially if you know you won't F-up your masteries and be stuck with them and be forced to create a new character.

Sometimes it can be frustrating to create a new character, level his masteries in all faith, then find out it doesn't work well or you don't like the mastery selections. Mastery respecs would help eliminate the need to create a new character and go through the motions "just to get it right" so to speak.

We want gold to be important right? Well, mastery respec would be an expensive option. I think it would be awesome.

[mamba]

Originally Posted by Scryer

Masteries are much like classes, you pick and combine 2 different types of masteries to create your own style of play.

Yes

Some people pick masteries that they don't end up enjoying, or that they end up not liking.

When this happens people have 1 option and only 1 option that is to remake their character, and level them up again.

Yes

Mastery respec is not cheating, in fact it'd be an option given to every player. How many times have you leveled a mastery and realized "I really hate the way this guy plays!"? I have more then once.

Probably twice out of my many chars (and it wasn't a mastery by itself, but the combination of two masteries which did not end up being the way I would have wanted it to be).

Finally, how many games don't let you change your class the way a mastery respec would let you?

Every single one ? I do not know of a single game where you can change your class / mastery at a later time.

What's wrong with giving the player an option, even if it's a very hard to attain option?

I say break away from tradition. How does mastery respec break the game if it's hard to do? Why does giving the option make the game worse? If you can't answer these questions sufficiently, then you are arbitrarily taking away an option from the player base.

Define hard, respeccing skills cost money which in the end meant it was essentially free as you had more money than you would ever need.

I certainly would not want mastery respeccing as something along those lines. You should have to work for it, along the lines of speccing out of the mastery you want to get rid of completely and then completing one region (size of Egypt or so) with the mastery you want to keep and at the end of that, spend all your money (with some ungodly minimum amount like 50 million or so, so you cannot simply invest your money away - this might need to be adjusted based on how much money you get in GD and the level the char is at) at some guy who rids you of the mastery, so you are free to choose another one. Maybe you need to sacrifice a unique item or two on top of that, just so it really hurts (and not some of the lame ones you found a long time ago and haven't been using for ages).

Quite frankly, the process should be 'painful'.

You also are allowed to change a mastery once or twice only on any char, no more than that.

With a low limit on this, the 'preparation' for speccing out of a mastery could maybe be somewhat less drastic, if there is no limit, the above certainly is the absolute minimum required to spec out of one

This to me is pretty much the only scenario in which I would be ok with even offering the option.

What is wrong with having the option to me is that if it is just based on money, it becomes next to free given how much money you made in TQ (and assuming something similar happens in GD), so you could change masteries at will / whenever you feel like it, requiring you to only play one char and still experiencing all available builds.

Having more options does not make for a better game. Level restrictions on skills and stat requirements on gear also restrict options, not having them would be detrimental to the game however. I feel the same way about the option to change masteries, it does not add value to me, it takes value away.

Having it be very painful remedies that by taking the option to switch masteries at will away while leaving the option open for someone who really, really, really feels like the built he ended up with sucks due to one of the masteries he chose.

[Scryer]

Originally Posted by mamba

I feel the same way about the option to change masteries, it does not add value to me, it takes value away.

Explain specifically what value is taken away without giving an analogy.

Other games don't allow you to respec classes because of how classes are set up. FFXI let you change classes and level them up at will, this was absolutely fun.

However, leveling up a character and having all the points available to you at max level isn't much of a stretch. Because of how masteries work, even a limited mastery respec isn't something that would break the game.

Beyond that, mastery respec doesn't have to be unlimited. Gold doesn't have to drop in large quantities and Gold doesn't have to be the only requirement.

[yerkyerk]

I'm all for stat and kill respeccing, but I'm not sure on this one; it's like in Diablo 2 when you're tired of your Barbarian and suddenly opt to respec it in a Necromancer and take away from the uniqueness of your character.
It would take incentive away to start over with a new character. Not just theorycrafting, personally, in D2 (and TQIT) I would start over a character several times if I had gotten a few attribute points assigned in the wrong attributes - not that that was a great thing as it was essentially the same character with a minor difference, but a whole new set of skills would be enough to justify a new playthrough).

On the other hand, if you're really stuck with a mastery you don't like (which seems to be the only reason why I'd want to see such a system), you shouldn't be forced to start all over again.

What about putting a (painful) mastery respec system in place, but also a way to really lock masteries than? If you lock/finalize your mastery, you can't respec it anymore, but you'll also get a nice stat and skillpoint bonus (or a bonus skill on your chosen masteries)? Perhaps could be done at a special trainer, who will teach you to master your mastery.

[gruevy]

It depends entirely on how 'online' this game is. If it's like D2, and most people will be playing online, then don't allow people to change masteries. If it's going to be primarily single player, with some disappointing, sort-of-working online like TQ had, then for goodness sakes let people change masteries more or less at will. There's no reason to punish single players like that. If the idea is to be online, then you have to have a unique character to fill a role, and some should be better than others without the infinite ability to tweak.

[Renevent]

Originally Posted by mamba

Every single one ? I do not know of a single game where you can change your class / mastery at a later time.

I thought this was funny...he asked a question that was in direct contradiction in what he is advocating for

Anyways, I like respecs for skills...maybe even throw stats into the mix for GD...but not sure about masteries.

I think there is a balance between giving the player options and making their choices meaningful and to me respecing masteries crosses that line.

[hooby]

I believe playing the game should be fun.

I believe leveling up should be fun.

I believe it should be soooo much fun, that I'd love to play multiple characters, just to try different classes/masteries/builds.

If I'd want to be able to respec my class or masteries, because I'd absolutely NOT want to go through all that playing again - then I do NOT enjoy playing the game, then I do NOT enjoy leveling up my char.

Because, in that case I'm only in for the "reward" of having a high level char with cool gear - but I'm not in for the game itself. Having to play the game actually is the catch. You have to do it to get that high-level char and cool gear, but I'd rather not do it, if I didn't have to.

If that happens, something is wrong with the game.

Maybe progress is to slow, leveling up takes too much time.
Maybe the combat you have to do to level up is not enjoyable enough.
Maybe the game is to repetitive or not diverse enough, so that playing the same levels again is boring.

In that case you definitely need to fix what's wrong with the game, and make it so much fun, that having to play a new character is NOT unbearable.

Allowing to respecc a class or mastery does not fix the real problem.

[mamba]

Originally Posted by Scryer

Explain specifically what value is taken away without giving an analogy.

I guess these quotes best express what I do not like about the concept

Originally Posted by yerkyerk

take away from the uniqueness of your character.
It would take incentive away to start over with a new character.

Originally Posted by Renevent

I think there is a balance between giving the player options and making their choices meaningful and to me respecing masteries crosses that line.

You take away accomplishment and diversity. Any character can be any other character just by spending some money. You take away my 'connection' to the character, it becomes some random stats (as in whatever I last spent money on) without any meaning.


And I fully do agree with

Originally Posted by hooby

I believe playing the game should be fun.

I believe leveling up should be fun.

I believe it should be soooo much fun, that I'd love to play multiple characters, just to try different classes/masteries/builds.

[Scryer]

I don't think there should be another incentive to start a new character, the incentive should be that it's fun to play a new character.

Your character will always be unique because you'll always decide what specific abilities you choose in each mastery.

Respecing masteries gives players options and choices, they are both just as meaningful as starting a new character.

Respecing a mastery would be a rare and unique event. Most players would only respec if they truly wanted to. Respecing masteries could be limited thus making it a unique event.

Respecing masteries gives players the incentive to experience a new mastery without being forced to level a new character.

I see what you're trying to get at, but I'm not seeing it work.

[ASYLUM101]

I disagree with this thread entirely. I do not like this idea because if someone really hated a mastery that much, it means the mastery is no fun. If it's no fun, NO ONE will like it.

I believe playing the game should be fun.

I believe leveling up should be fun.

I believe it should be soooo much fun, that I'd love to play multiple characters, just to try different classes/masteries/builds.

This is the proof in the pudding, this is where the game should be heading, not for FREE SKILLS ANYTIME YOU WANT TO CHANGE. It has to have some limitations, sandbox games aren't fun.