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  #11  
Old 09-30-2010, 09:27 PM
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Fire arrow thing? I think I know which you mean, the one that shoots the 3 fire ball things? Yeah, the whole skill line was garbage - it's not that it didn't scale, it's that it was poorly designed and just outright sucked. There was no reason to use that over Volcanic Orb.

Fire Ring, the synergy sucked, yeah, but you have to realize,that skill was not a killing tool, it's something to harm guys if they get too close, your primary weapons for Earth are eruption and volcanic orb....

The shockwave, could have scaled better sure, but it wasn't meant to kill guys, it was meant to keep them at bay. If they got close enough to hit you WHAM, stunned and electric damage (it actually scaled really well if you focused your INT and lightning damage).
  #12  
Old 09-30-2010, 10:37 PM
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Asylum101 wrote:
Quote:
Fire arrow thing? I think I know which you mean, the one that shoots the 3 fire ball things? Yeah, the whole skill line was garbage - it's not that it didn't scale, it's that it was poorly designed and just outright sucked. There was no reason to use that over Volcanic Orb.

Fire Ring, the synergy sucked, yeah, but you have to realize,that skill was not a killing tool, it's something to harm guys if they get too close, your primary weapons for Earth are eruption and volcanic orb....

The shockwave, could have scaled better sure, but it wasn't meant to kill guys, it was meant to keep them at bay. If they got close enough to hit you WHAM, stunned and electric damage (it actually scaled really well if you focused your INT and lightning damage).
Oh c'mon Asylum now your just fanboying yourself over crappy skills and badly balanced game design. The reason that there were sooo many one point wonders in TQIT is because of bad damage scaling. Don't start saying that was what the game designers intended; <sarcasm> you should only spend one point on this skill that has eight levels, the rest are just for show... </end sarcasm> I mean seriously from Soften Metal to Heat Shield to Storm Surge to Energy Shield you can find a bunch of crappy developed skills (and that's four skills from two masteries) that actually supports Hooby's point. If you don't know better (and most newbs don't) half the skills you can choose from when building your toon are badly designed. Thank god you got to respec otherwise players would have been crying about wasted points and how truly shitty some skills were instead of just ignoring them.

As I've said in other threads, hopefully the game designers will learn that they need to have damage dealing and absorbing skills scale with stats. If not, they're gonna have the same issue that made certain skills in TQIT crappy and ultimately that will turn of players.

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  #13  
Old 09-30-2010, 11:00 PM
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While yes, I am a fan boy, I'm not blind. I mean I did acknowledge that they could be scaled better. However, my point is that Storm Surge really was NOT intended to be a killing skill, Ice Shards and Lightning blast are.
  #14  
Old 09-30-2010, 11:26 PM
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I actually like the game...the only issue for me is its the same on all difficulties...Normal, Epic and Legendary dont offer anything different or added to make it worth it...

I mean I play them and then do it again...it just gets repetitive...but I guess thats part of the game...sure the game has some issues but what game doesnt...?

I play Dream and Storm materies as I like the Magic part of things but I also have other characters....

the only real disappointment for me was finding that any Blue or Purple Staff was less than the Green enhanced I have...the closest Purple is within 10 DPS but its still less...after finding all the staffs and finding the one I had was the best I put together was rather disappointing...but hey it kept me playing to find out right....?

Now I am trying the custom maps...the Lilith map is pretty nice...

I am thinking of trying to get some guys to help build a super huge custom map...all the tools are in the folder...instrucs as well as the map tools
  #15  
Old 09-30-2010, 11:31 PM
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@hooby; I agree with several of your points, but I guess to a lesser degree, as they didn't bother me too much. The lack of usability of +skills (you can't get more than 4 levels above the max level) almost killed the game for me, but I got past it. I found the game to be extremely good in a lot of departments and somewhat less interesting in others. I've never found and I'll never find the perfect game, so it's mostly a case of seperating the good from the not so good, and TQ definetely belongs to the good in my list.

The speed was slow I agree. I want to give a tip for that actually, install xMAX. Or, if you think the speed was too slow and the difficulty was too easy, install the Ubermod instead (it's better balanced than xMAX and has cool additional content, but it's more difficult and I think it has less monsters than xMAX). Really, I can't play TQ:IT without xMAX anymore, it's just too slow and bothersome.

I also think the item diversity in TQ was not as 'advanced' as in Diablo 2. In Diablo, a lot of uniques and pretty much all runewords offered special builds. In TQ, it's mostly a plain, dull stat comparison.
Also, in TQ slower weapons did more damage; but since it was too easy to reach the attack speed cap (and the base attack speed of a weapon was not linked to the max attack speed of the weapon), slow weapons like clubs and spears were usually the best.

Anyway, it's good to have diverging opinions. Welcome to the site (again). This is a pretty laidback community, we won't stone you for not agreeing with the status quo .

Last edited by yerkyerk; 09-30-2010 at 11:33 PM.
  #16  
Old 10-01-2010, 12:51 AM
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As much as I love TQ and IT, I have to agree that are quite a few completely throwaway skills that I never found a good use for.

Skills I never found useful:

Circle of Power (Spirit), Spirit Ward + Spirit Bane (Spirit), Energy Shield (Storm), Distortion Field (Dream), Stone Skin (Earth), Molten Rock (Earth), Soften Metal (Earth), Flame Surge + complimentary skills, all the poison and bleeding related skills past normal mode.
  #17  
Old 10-01-2010, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiaco View Post
All in all, just want to poke in and say, please no stoning and to the OP, be careful with your criticism if you are unsure, there are people here that have played the game to death. You will be called out on false claims.
Yeah, yeah, I know - That old "you may not have or state an opinion on a game you haven't played for 100 hours at least" - kind of thing...

I believe everyone has a right to his own opinion and a right to state it - even it possibly is totally unfounded (not to say that I think my opinion is totally unfounded - but yeah I surely spent less time in TQ than most people here).

As I disclaimed during the first post, it's only my opinion. I don't claim that all I do write are scientific facts. If I say that in my opinion the game starts off to slow - then this is what i felt during playing. The game felt slow to me.

If video comparisons and exact "pixels to meters" calculations actually do prove that TQ in fact is faster than most other arpgs, that doesn't change a thing. Even the fact that it actually IS faster, won't change the fact that it felt slow to me.

I just wanted to stress the fact, that I am posting a personal opinion/impression here - not scientific truths.

And as I stated before, I don't intent on convincing anybody that I'm right. So there's really no need to get your panties in a twist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yerkyerk View Post
[...] it's mostly a case of seperating the good from the not so good, and TQ definetely belongs to the good in my list.
Of course it is. (Both - seperating the good from the not so good, and TQ being a good game.) I can totally agree on that.

I really wouldn't bother to sort my thoughts and write down posts like that on I game I really don't care about. Why would I?

Also I didn't intend to say that "diablo was a better game than TQ" - I don't know... I even don't care which is the "better" game for me. Those "what's best" discussion don't ever lead anywhere anyways.
At the moment TQ would be the better game for me. I'm still playing it, in the evenings after work. And I'm enjoying it. Diablo 2 is history by my book. I had lots of fun with it, but finally reached the point of oversaturation. I just can't see it any more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yerkyerk View Post
I also think the item diversity in TQ was not as 'advanced' as in Diablo 2. In Diablo, a lot of uniques and pretty much all runewords offered special builds.
Funny thing you'd say that. Actually I felt that runewords broke item diversity. There always was just that one single runeword that perfectly fit your build, and no random item could ever be as good as that. So while formerly you had a broad range of random items that were "best" for you, it then was down to one single runeword... The same one everybody else with the same classbuild wanted (or had already).

Quote:
Originally Posted by yerkyerk View Post
In TQ, it's mostly a plain, dull stat comparison.
Also, in TQ slower weapons did more damage; but since it was too easy to reach the attack speed cap (and the base attack speed of a weapon was not linked to the max attack speed of the weapon), slow weapons like clubs and spears were usually the best.
Hellgate:London actually managed to get weapon diversity up quite a notch. They had weapons that did fire dam or electricity dam for base damage, they had melee weapons that did splash damage, and the formula of "damage x speed = DPS and nothing else matters" was broken by monsters having non-percentual damage resistance values. So vs. enemies with high damage resistance a slow weapon with high base damage would do more DPS whilst agains enemies with many hit points but low damage resistance a fast weapon with lower base damage would be more effective.

A shame that game failed on so many other grounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yerkyerk View Post
Anyway, it's good to have diverging opinions. Welcome to the site (again). This is a pretty laidback community, we won't stone you for not agreeing with the status quo .
You sure about that?
I'm getting an alarmingly high number of warnings to keep the divergence of my opintion down rather and don't risk pushing it to far... :P
  #18  
Old 10-01-2010, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooby View Post
You sure about that?
I'm getting an alarmingly high number of warnings to keep the divergence of my opintion down rather and don't risk pushing it to far... :P
Absolutely. I have seen people apologizing for getting a bit too fired up in an argumentation. That is is not what you would expect on a forum right?^^

Anyway regarding the useless skills: I don't think they are poorly designed, in fact I liked a lot of them and really wanted to play them. It was just the stats where really low and fixed. I think Torchlight scaled the skills by your stats. Don't really know how it worked but it was a very nice idea and I think all aRPGs should do that.
That way you can also prevent imbalanced skills like the distortion wave which made you run through enemies in normal and epic if you just skilled it with it's Mod.
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  #19  
Old 10-01-2010, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooby View Post
Funny thing you'd say that. Actually I felt that runewords broke item diversity. There always was just that one single runeword that perfectly fit your build, and no random item could ever be as good as that. So while formerly you had a broad range of random items that were "best" for you, it then was down to one single runeword... The same one everybody else with the same classbuild wanted (or had already).
While runewords were generally broken, they did allow for loads of builds.
The summoning sorceress (runeword with revive charges), melee sorc (double lightning aura + passion ), Immortal Queen (sorceress with Immortal King set - not a runeword though), pretty much any class in bearform, wolfbarb, pyrotechnic necromancer (trang oul set - not a runeword either), whirlwind assassin, etc..
I think each runeword (at least the 1.10 ones) gave access to at least one new build, but usually a lot more. Many uniques and a few sets gave access to interesting builds as well.

While most of em weren't as effective as the cookiecutter builds, many of them were fun to play. And you could discover these builds for yourself. I've not really seen such a thing in TQ, where you just went with whatever equipment gave you the best stats.
  #20  
Old 10-01-2010, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
Absolutely. I have seen people apologizing for getting a bit too fired up in an argumentation. That is is not what you would expect on a forum right?^^
In my experience that's only a matter of forum-size. All smaller forums are like this, but once they reach a certain size, the atmosphere changes.

I was Admin of one of the biggest german fan-sites for Hellgate:London back in the days before its release... and I struggled really hard, to establish a sort of "self-control", with no hard forum rules, and no army of mods overseeing every step and punishing everything that barely scratched any of the rules...

The base idea was: "This is YOUR forum, so keep it in a shape you can enjoy."

And it did work out quite well at first. I had to write a lot of PM's to new people exlaining how this forum worked - but once people found out, that there were no forum rules, and nobody cleaned up the mess (no locked threads, no deleted posts), and there was no "authority" to lean up against... trolling just stopped.

But then release came around and we hit around 1000 unique visits a day, and the forum broke. There were too many new people coming in - all not knowing (and not caring about) how this forum did work - they all assumed it was like anywhere else, that "everything you don't get punished for is allowed" style of thinking... and so the experiement failed. Maybe it could have worked out, if there hadn't been such rapid growth...
I already had gathered a handfull of supporters, explaining the forums idea to new people on their account. I never asked anyone to anything - but people started to take responsibility.

Well, at least I did learn a lot during that experiment
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