Random or handmade world?

[ZZSmufa]

As many have said before, I too would prefer a handcrafted and well made world, with maybe some randomized smallish dungeons now and then. If I hadn't played TQ before, then I'd probably say randomized all the way. However, if I compare my levels of frustration when playing the same areas multiple times in TQ, to those when playing randomized areas in D2 (especially Act 3, oh joy), I'd say TQ's approach was clearly superior.

It would be interesting if there were some Infinite Dungeon, like in ADOM and Torchlight. It'd be even more interesting if you couldn't portal out of there, as an ultimate challenge. Just take a level 1 hardcore toon and get going, trying to get as far in as possible, each level getting progressively harder. Though maybe something like this could be added through a mod or in an expansion.

[eisprinzessin]

Apart from medierra's reply in this thread he previously confirmed:

Originally Posted by medierra

I think any above-ground randomization approach we take will be a hybrid system. We probably can't and I don't think want to have completely randomized above-ground. Custom crafted beautiful outdoor environments are something that I think people have come to expect from us. We have some ideas for adding more randomization to the outdoor environments without sacrificing that quality though. At the very least, even if we cannot randomize the terrain or layout at all, I think we can vary the location of quest objectives, monster camps, chests, and such, much more than we did on TQ. That way even if you recognize the terrain, you still have to explore the areas to find the points of interest. We may be able to go beyond this but we won't know for sure until we get further along in development.

I think there is a good chance we'll be able to add more significant randomization to undergrounds. This isn't implemented yet though, so I can't promise it will happen but it is something we're working on.

Originally Posted by medierra

However, we are planning to make levels less linear by designing them more as a series of boxes instead of linear paths. When I say "box" I mean that they will be more voluminous areas, not that they will be actual squares. So you'll enter these "boxes" and then begin exploring a more open area looking for the entrance to the next box area.

I am doubtful that we will actually be able to randomize the exits of most outdoor levels since our goal is to create levels that fit together to represent areas on a world-map. However, there are times when you will be traveling from one region to another through undergrounds or "rift gates". We may be able to randomize where these entrances appear in the levels. We haven't tested this yet though.

This is from a rather old thread, which has not been updated since end of January. Might be of interest to "newer" members, who did not study old threads with unspecific titles.

[Ergonpandilus]

Gothic vs. Elder Scrolls.

Handcrafted for me all the way. I'd actually even rather have some static loot from some bossmonster too.

[deimos]

Handcrafted world is fine but static loot? No way. Static items work to a degree in games like the Gothics where you must work hard to get armor from your faction. And not only did you have to beat a pack of tough undead critters for the Dragonsomething sword in G2, to build enough strength to use it you also needed all the bonuses and levels you could possibly get. Meaning questwork and thorough exploration (=experience) is required to reap the rewards.

Of course a cheap ass mage could get his hands on that blade really early...

In aRPGs, luck and patience is what should be required to get good loot As soon as you're strong enough to tackle on a worthwhile farming target, it always eventually pays off to stick around for a while. Of course the downside is that not everybody likes farming.

[MageMaster]

as for mapping styles-

I like hybrid mapping that way you learn where major things are but have a different path to getting there. Cities, Dungeons etc are all the same entrance location, but the road is different. What would be interesting is seasonal change, summer, winter etc, things green go brown and vice versa. Sometimes I miss not having a type of region, mountains/snow or desert/sand in some games.

as for farming-
Its nice when things respawn after some time period, helps with the xp gain, especially when you travel everywhere on foot. Items, Items, Item. What packrat like me don't like items, oh did I say Items.

...Random Thoughts...
MageMaster

[shawnmck]

I myself don't really much care for randomized levles, as I have never seen it done or implimented very well (& I've played a lot of them). Like a previous poster mentioned, all it does is fool your brain that your seeing something different, but in reality you are not. I never understand why some people prefer a randomly generated layout over a static one. All that is changing in a random generated area is the layout. You might go in a different direction, but all the set pieces look exactly the same. Games like Diablo 2, Hellgate:London, & etc all had the exact same look to them with the exact same trees, rocks, buildings, etc. And all the levels were flat. Even in Torchlight everything is flat & I get tired of seeing the exact same environemtal set pieces (trees, boulders, coulumns, etc) over & over again. At least in Titan Quest there were a much diverse selection of trees, buildings, boulders, stalagtites, and so forth that looked beautiful. And when you went up a hill or down a hill it actually looked like you were going up/down a mountan, and were not on some ever flat area.

I am sick of the monotony and limited set of a randomly generated map. I would much rather have a huge & diverse area that is static than a random generated map that has carbon copied set designs (trees, rocks, pillars, etc that all look exactly the same) that just changes the direction you travel, nothing more. To me that is much more boring.

^Just my 2 cents.

[Cliftor]

For what its worth, if they're still putting their finger to the wind, my preferences lie on the side of randomization.

Like Starkrun said, truly static worlds lose their luster as they get played out... TQ was a beautiful game, but each playthrough saw us repeating each long chapter and each sight 3 times, and that's just for one character. By the end of my FIRST character I knew the gameworld "like the back of my hand."

The more they do to dynamicise the overworld, the better imo. Obviously there are limits and no disciplined artist will try to go beyond them lest they tempt fate, but I hope multiple playthroughs of Grim Dawn hold more surprises than TQ did.

...and if they manage to squeeze in truly random twisty-turny dungeons, even better imo!

Also, it might help to abandon the "play the game three times with one character" design of TQ and just have single-quest difficulty levels imo. I prefer shorter main quests with higher replayability.

[zac503]

Agreed 100% Titan Quest was more beautiful all around, but after 1 play through it lost a lot of the magic for me. Diablo II however still has the excitement of not knowing what's around the next corner.

[Spoon of Doom]

Originally Posted by shawnmck

I myself don't really much care for randomized levles, as I have never seen it done or implimented very well (& I've played a lot of them). Like a previous poster mentioned, all it does is fool your brain that your seeing something different, but in reality you are not. I never understand why some people prefer a randomly generated layout over a static one. All that is changing in a random generated area is the layout. You might go in a different direction, but all the set pieces look exactly the same. Games like Diablo 2, Hellgate:London, & etc all had the exact same look to them with the exact same trees, rocks, buildings, etc. And all the levels were flat. Even in Torchlight everything is flat & I get tired of seeing the exact same environemtal set pieces (trees, boulders, coulumns, etc) over & over again. At least in Titan Quest there were a much diverse selection of trees, buildings, boulders, stalagtites, and so forth that looked beautiful. And when you went up a hill or down a hill it actually looked like you were going up/down a mountan, and were not on some ever flat area.

I am sick of the monotony and limited set of a randomly generated map. I would much rather have a huge & diverse area that is static than a random generated map that has carbon copied set designs (trees, rocks, pillars, etc that all look exactly the same) that just changes the direction you travel, nothing more. To me that is much more boring.

^Just my 2 cents.

Signed. Couldn't have said it better.

[Shinrou]

Originally Posted by shawnmck

I myself don't really much care for randomized levles, as I have never seen it done or implimented very well (& I've played a lot of them). Like a previous poster mentioned, all it does is fool your brain that your seeing something different, but in reality you are not. I never understand why some people prefer a randomly generated layout over a static one. All that is changing in a random generated area is the layout. You might go in a different direction, but all the set pieces look exactly the same. Games like Diablo 2, Hellgate:London, & etc all had the exact same look to them with the exact same trees, rocks, buildings, etc. And all the levels were flat. Even in Torchlight everything is flat & I get tired of seeing the exact same environemtal set pieces (trees, boulders, coulumns, etc) over & over again. At least in Titan Quest there were a much diverse selection of trees, buildings, boulders, stalagtites, and so forth that looked beautiful. And when you went up a hill or down a hill it actually looked like you were going up/down a mountan, and were not on some ever flat area.

I am sick of the monotony and limited set of a randomly generated map. I would much rather have a huge & diverse area that is static than a random generated map that has carbon copied set designs (trees, rocks, pillars, etc that all look exactly the same) that just changes the direction you travel, nothing more. To me that is much more boring.

^Just my 2 cents.

+1 to this one as well. I also get a feeling the fully randomized levels are actually in a way more repetitive since they usually consist very few set-pieces to hold them together. So you are running multiple long floors that are "randomized", but in reality, you are running the same thing all over again all the time.

Only randomization that could work IMO, is the one that randomizes some ground-level stuff that isn't really altering the world that much at all, like some set-piece placements ie. tents, huge ass chest locations and such.