#31  
Old 04-10-2018, 05:46 AM
sir spanksalot sir spanksalot is offline
Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,934
Default

Quote:
Let low level characters move their skill points all over the place as much as they like to experiment, see what works, how it works, etc. And high level characters could do a major respec but the cost would not be completely negligible (but also not punitively extreme). I'd consider c*level to be pretty reasonable, with the constant c somewhere between 1-10.
Okay. Fair assessment, and one I can get on board with.

Quote:
Very often do I see people who've been at the game for dozens or even hundreds of hours who do not know how to craft their own characters because they've simply been looking at build guides from the instant they bought the game.
Couldn't agree more here.

In addition, blindly following the a guide will result in a MASSIVE waste if time - why? Because most of the guides posted on this forum are extremely item specific. Often times they rely on stonehide of kings, MI rings, etc. etc. etc.

The purples alone are going to be hard af for any new character to get.

What then happens is hours of investment into a toon which is lackluster, not because the toon itself is bad, but because it lacks the necessary items to shine.

Players will then repeat this process and find another guide start this process all over again.

As such, the player will spend more time levelling than building up a solid item pool.

Quote:
The exception is some rare items called “Moster infrequents” or “MI”, which are moderately good items dropping from some specific bosses or monsters, and are okay for leveling, not top end game though.
WHAT! MI's with baller affixes are literally BiS for MANY builds.

Last edited by sir spanksalot; 04-10-2018 at 05:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-10-2018, 05:59 PM
elnawawi elnawawi is offline
Initiate
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceno View Post
Failure is progress.
Agree, but success is progress as well. For those who hate "studying" mechanisms and prefer to learn along while playing and experiencing the game, it's good to find a tested build and play along your first few playthrough. Or prefer to limit the unknown factors and narrow them down, until they get hold of the game, before theory crafting.

Quote:
It's perfectly fine to muck up your first character.
True, but I don't like that, first character is too early for me to theorycraft. If I wanted to go deep unprepared, I'd get game at launch. But as I waited couple years to get it, people have experimented a lot, and I like to learn from them, no shame to have the way paved for me for couple playthrough.

Though I still experiment within the build, making my own modified version as go, but my own unique builds comes later, not at first. It's just a different approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir spanksalot View Post
In addition, blindly following the a guide will result in a MASSIVE waste if time - why? Because most of the guides posted on this forum are extremely item specific. Often times they rely on stonehide of kings, MI rings, etc. etc. etc.

The purples alone are going to be hard af for any new character to get.
That's why build Compendium have a rank for gear dependency for every build (G1, G2, ... , G5). Plus you don't have to follow the guide blindly as we discussed earlier, people can make their own adjustment while following a certain concept. Some are forced adjustments, since they would have diffrent items than the build owner, while some will be preferences, like someone loving a devotion proc over other.

In the end, you don't need to be 100% optimized to be efficient. And not everyone play hardcore.

Quote:
WHAT! MI's with baller affixes are literally BiS for MANY builds.
Sorry, my wording isn't perfect. I mean all the MIs players will get tons of while leveling, the ones without these certain specific exact affixes, which are most of MI? New players shouldn't bother farming for these affixes anyway. They most likely don't know the whole thing, that's for top level optimization.

There are a number of exception ofc, like ABB Frostburn Blademaster would always find the one handed MIs from Undead to be best in slot from level one until he finds a Crescent Moon. Or some of the MIs added/modified with the expansion, but I'm trying to keep the OP simple.

If you strongly believe this will lead to misinformation, please let me know and I'll rewrite that part.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-10-2018, 07:08 PM
sir spanksalot sir spanksalot is offline
Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,934
Default

Quote:
If you strongly believe this will lead to misinformation, please let me know and I'll rewrite that part.
I think it might mate. Putting in a few words to clarify things like, 'Without the proper affixes, most MI's in the game are moderately good items dropping from some specific bosses or monsters, and are okay for leveling, not top end game though.'
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-13-2018, 08:17 PM
Serimert Serimert is offline
Emissary
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 961
Default

At first, pet builds were weak thus i wish i knew that...
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-23-2018, 02:29 PM
medea fleecestealer's Avatar
medea fleecestealer medea fleecestealer is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worblehat View Post
That's completely backwards, but then again as a long-time Borderlands 2 player of course I'd say that. Huge respec costs mean that I miss out on much of the depth of GD. I'm not going to level two characters of the same class - I don't have that kind of time. So if a particular class has multiple potentially interesting build setups, I'll do one and that's it. If respec costs were sensible, at some point I'd move a ton of points around and try another.
I can sort of see this, but let's say I want to respec my L100 Conjurer petmancer into a Vitality Conjurer. Yes I can respec all the skill and devotion points, but the deovtions are going to be completely different from what a petmancer needs. So I assume (since I don't respec much anyway) that all the new devotions are going to be at L1 - doesn't sound much use to an L100 Vitality Conjurer facing Ultimate foes, heroes and nemesis.

And by the time I hit L100 I was halfway through the Asterkarn Valley so not that much of the game left to play with a new build.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-23-2018, 02:57 PM
Avyctes's Avatar
Avyctes Avyctes is offline
Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,813
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by medea fleecestealer View Post
And by the time I hit L100 I was halfway through the Asterkarn Valley so not that much of the game left to play with a new build.
It's not that difficult to get to a decent level quickly after a full respec, with the aid of the xp potion and a few dungeons. You'll be maxed out well before you complete that Alkamos ring set
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-23-2018, 03:10 PM
medea fleecestealer's Avatar
medea fleecestealer medea fleecestealer is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,154
Default

Ah, but I've never found/seen that potion and I don't tend to venture into the dungeons very often - too dangerous! Is that potion available in Normal and Elite or only in Ultimate. If the latter, again seems too little to make much difference.

And why would you need the potion anyway if you're already L100? It's not going to gain you any more XP.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-23-2018, 09:54 PM
Avyctes's Avatar
Avyctes Avyctes is offline
Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,813
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by medea fleecestealer View Post
Ah, but I've never found/seen that potion and I don't tend to venture into the dungeons very often - too dangerous! Is that potion available in Normal and Elite or only in Ultimate. If the latter, again seems too little to make much difference.

And why would you need the potion anyway if you're already L100? It's not going to gain you any more XP.
It's for sale from the resistance at revered

And why would you use it? Even at level 100 those devotion skills still need xp, and the potion still doubles it.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-24-2018, 02:06 AM
Worblehat Worblehat is offline
Speaker
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 81
Default

@OP - the last bullet point about faction rep might also benefit from a few words about nemesis rep. As my first character approaches level cap it looks like few if any enemy factions will naturally reach nemesis, and thus that the player should continue picking up convenient bounties even after reaching all-revered rep with the friendly factions. But maybe I'm missing something; I'm sure experienced folks will chime in if so. I'd be tempted to ignore nemeses, but I've read that they're one of the better ways to get blueprints.

Quote:
Originally Posted by medea fleecestealer View Post
I can sort of see this, but let's say I want to respec my L100 Conjurer petmancer into a Vitality Conjurer. Yes I can respec all the skill and devotion points, but the devotions are going to be completely different from what a petmancer needs. So I assume (since I don't respec much anyway) that all the new devotions are going to be at L1 - doesn't sound much use to an L100 Vitality Conjurer facing Ultimate foes, heroes and nemesis.

And by the time I hit L100 I was halfway through the Asterkarn Valley so not that much of the game left to play with a new build.
Actually, you just made a pretty convincing argument that I should go ahead and do exactly this sort of wholesale respec. My first character has been super-slow lately because the third cycle through the content treadmill is extremely boring (I really wish this subgenre would design around only two playthroughs per character instead of three...). But switching from S&B commando to forcewave commando would mix things up and add a bit of novelty, plus that character's trip to BoC resulted in a Shar'zul's Worldeater which looks rather good for such a build (and is a useless but decorative trophy for the S&B build).

Not too worried about low devotion proc levels. The devotions for the S&B build are almost all maxed out already, so why not put the xp to work on a different set of devotions? The xp reward from quests in ultimate is high enough that the new ones should bump up to reasonable levels quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-24-2018, 05:51 AM
medea fleecestealer's Avatar
medea fleecestealer medea fleecestealer is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avyctes View Post
It's for sale from the resistance at revered

And why would you use it? Even at level 100 those devotion skills still need xp, and the potion still doubles it.
Um. All my devotions are already maxed out except for Will of Rattosh which is 14 of 15. So not going to gain anything there. Guess it depends on how quickly you reach Revered to be able to buy the potion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worblehat View Post
@OP - the last bullet point about faction rep might also benefit from a few words about nemesis rep. As my first character approaches level cap it looks like few if any enemy factions will naturally reach nemesis, and thus that the player should continue picking up convenient bounties even after reaching all-revered rep with the friendly factions. But maybe I'm missing something; I'm sure experienced folks will chime in if so. I'd be tempted to ignore nemeses, but I've read that they're one of the better ways to get blueprints.



Actually, you just made a pretty convincing argument that I should go ahead and do exactly this sort of wholesale respec. My first character has been super-slow lately because the third cycle through the content treadmill is extremely boring (I really wish this subgenre would design around only two playthroughs per character instead of three...). But switching from S&B commando to forcewave commando would mix things up and add a bit of novelty, plus that character's trip to BoC resulted in a Shar'zul's Worldeater which looks rather good for such a build (and is a useless but decorative trophy for the S&B build).

Not too worried about low devotion proc levels. The devotions for the S&B build are almost all maxed out already, so why not put the xp to work on a different set of devotions? The xp reward from quests in ultimate is high enough that the new ones should bump up to reasonable levels quickly.
My Conjurer didn't do many bounties and he's got 8 Revered factions and 4 Nemesis on pretty much a straight playthrough. 3 factiions do have bonus rep on them. Worst of all is Cronley's Gang who is still only Despised level and that is with doing some Rover bounties to be able to get the Mogdrogen shrine quest at Honored in Normal difficulty.

Going by my suggested change from a petmancer to a Vitality Conjurer say I changed when he hit L100 - he would have had the remaining part of Act 4 to do and then the expansion. What am I going to do with him after that - bearing in mind I don't farm since it's boring as hell for me. Rerun Ultimate again with no quests to do? Boring again. I don't think I'd particularly enjoy changing a toon so late in the game, much more fun to make a new one and start all over again. But these things are always a personal choice and I can see how respeccing can appeal to some people who don't want to take the time to do that.

The other problem for me personally is motivation to continue to play a toon after hitting L100. This is something I've never come up against before since being a TQIT fan it's a lot of work to reach that game's level cap. My Conjurer is L100 and I still haven't actually finished GD yet. He has the last few quests to do in Malmouth, but I'm finding myself saying what's the point? I'm not gaining XP, more skill and devotion points, etc. My toon is done, finished, nothing I can do to improve him now so why continue? If I used an XP potion I'd reach that point even sooner and not sure I'd want to continue once I did. For me this is a concern with a second expanion on the horizon, given that we're not getting any increase in level or devotion points.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Grim Dawn ©2018 Crate Entertainment, LLC.
vBulletin® 3.8.4 ©2000-2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.