#21  
Old 03-21-2017, 02:44 AM
Tyr Tyr is offline
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Half a year ago was well after B31 changes, the period after which was like a massive HP/OA/resist giveaway on gear.

You are a curious case if you find Grim Dawn's system outdated and unnecessarily complex even though you claim to have played most ARPGs out there.
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  #22  
Old 03-21-2017, 05:45 PM
hrwd hrwd is offline
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Half a year ago was well after B31 changes, the period after which was like a massive HP/OA/resist giveaway on gear.

You are a curious case if you find Grim Dawn's system outdated and unnecessarily complex even though you claim to have played most ARPGs out there.
I mean, name one that has more stats. The only one that comes to mind is Diablo 2 tbh(and TQ, but GD ~ TQ, so I don't necessarily count them as separate games).

I'll give the 1,09 a try once I find some time(I want to play other things currently).
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  #23  
Old 03-21-2017, 10:29 PM
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...am I the only one who thinks there are too many of them? Not only have you got like 6-8 different resists, you've also got the resists for DoT components of at least 75% of these. To me it doesn't seem like an efficient way to design a system. Because it only brings the grind nature out in the open, as opposed to engrossing people in the gameplay portion of it.

It just doesn't seem efficacious.
No, you arent the only one.
I also think that game is over-complicated with number of resists and damage types. It's a pain just cap them all in Ultimate, and many enemies can reduce your resistances, so you have to OVERcap them to be tanky. Most builds specialize in 1-2 damage types (due to stacking 1500-2000% increased damage for that element), using 3 or more damage types isnt encouraged by game at all.
Also, all those bonuses to specific skills on items make many of those items really good only for build they're designed for, and junk for others.

P.S. GD has 11 different resists to mitigate damage, and 6 "utility" resists.... If that's not "too much", then what is?

Last edited by MortalKombat; 03-21-2017 at 10:33 PM.
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  #24  
Old 03-21-2017, 11:52 PM
Tyr Tyr is offline
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If you're going out of your way to max/overcap ALL of your resistances ALL the time, then I'd say the problem doesn't lie with the game.
You badly need to YOLO less.

2 damage types or so is the norm. 1 is for very specialized builds, and ~4 is for casters with lots of debuffs. More than that, and you better have godly raw damage/debuffs.

Last edited by Tyr; 03-21-2017 at 11:55 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:16 AM
Yawgmoth Yawgmoth is offline
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If you're going out of your way to max/overcap ALL of your resistances ALL the time, then I'd say the problem doesn't lie with the game.
You badly need to YOLO less.
You badly need to You Only Live Once less?

The idea that you should have a different set of items for multiple setups of resists based on what you might be fighting is hideously shitty, not only because swapping between sets is a pain in the ass and no one should have to do that, and not only because getting multiple sets of gear for one character is ridiculous, but also because the crucible is A Thing What Exists and most certainly requires you to have as many resists at or close to capped by its very nature.

I think that if lightning also gave stun resist, cold gave freeze resist, and so on it would go a long way to making resists something other than the interminable mathematical slog that they currently are.
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  #26  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:21 AM
hrwd hrwd is offline
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Originally Posted by Tyr View Post
If you're going out of your way to max/overcap ALL of your resistances ALL the time, then I'd say the problem doesn't lie with the game.
You badly need to YOLO less.

2 damage types or so is the norm. 1 is for very specialized builds, and ~4 is for casters with lots of debuffs. More than that, and you better have godly raw damage/debuffs.
Also, Hardcore Mode is a thing, you know.

A typical aRPG has following resists: FCL + Poison + Magic + Physical. That's 8. GD has more than double of that.

I mean, GD would be much more fun if less time was spent in Excel and more in GD. But would it still be GD then?
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  #27  
Old 03-22-2017, 01:05 AM
Tyr Tyr is offline
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You badly need to You Only Live Once less?
What are you, 5? Stop being too literal and get with the program.

Quote:
The idea that you should have a different set of items for multiple setups of resists based on what you might be fighting is hideously shitty, not only because swapping between sets is a pain in the ass and no one should have to do that, and not only because getting multiple sets of gear for one character is ridiculous, but also because the crucible is A Thing What Exists and most certainly requires you to have as many resists at or close to capped by its very nature.
Besides swapping gear for players who obviously want to tackle the highest difficulty in the game (especially for people not using end-game gear, which usually feature a ton of resists) there are these things called resistance consumables. You might want to use them.
The idea behind wishing to tackle the highest difficulty in the game using only subpar items and then asking for better resistances from gear is even more shitty, as is somehow implying that you need different SETS to tackle general content. Swapping a single item with the right component/augment really isn't enough for you? You do know a single affix can give you as many as three resists, right? Or that you can gain resists from a ton of different sources like items, consumables, masteries, devotions, augments and blacksmith crafting bonuses?
How bad are your resists really if you need to swap out so many pieces of gear? You obviously don't belong in ultimate if that's the case.
It's one thing to complain that the game has too many damage types/resists/terms, it's a completely different thing to complain that the game should give you better resists from gear. Complexity =/= difficulty. There's a learning curve, but obviously people from all walks of life (as obvious from the variety of personalities in the forums) are capable of learning what makes the game tick.

As for hardcore and the Crucible, these are basically different game modes and thus follow a very different meta. It doesn't make sense to compare them to normal mode and each other in-depth - it would be stupid to play like an HC character in normal mode (constantly paranoid of getting killed and always inching along) or HC like you would play a normal mode character.
It's actually very easy to go the opposite end of the spectrum if you follow the HC/Crucible meta - that is, your survivability is top notch, but it takes you "forever" to kill stuff.

Last edited by Tyr; 03-22-2017 at 01:36 AM.
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  #28  
Old 03-24-2017, 01:02 AM
Billums Billums is offline
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Originally Posted by hrwd View Post
A typical aRPG has following resists: FCL + Poison + Magic + Physical. That's 8. GD has more than double of that.
Um, did you mean 6 or am I missing something? Even then, GD only has 9 main damage type resistances and physical resist as a more rare 10th. Stun resist and freeze resist are useful maybe 5% and 1% of the time, respectively. I don't know of any significant uses for immobilize, life leech, energy leech, etc resists. I think they kind of exist to give the players full disclosure, and the ability to tailor your character any way you want.

Whether 10 types of damage resists is excessive is subjective, I think. Yes, it's harder to deal with, but it feels more real and adds more flavor to the Grim Dawn world.

The only thing I would touch is physical resist, which feels sorely missed at low numbers and like it doesn't do much at high numbers. It is really hard to gauge and I can't put my finger on it or explain it. The only major mechanical change I can think of making would be to introduce overall magical type damage and physical type damage resists, but this would just open a whole new can of worms because there are, for instance, both physical and magical forms of chaos damage, and acid damage, and vitality damage. Just... no.

I will reiterate what Tyr said in a more polite tone: If you find yourself needing more resists, resist potions are an option that most people overlook. If that isn't enough, there are many resources available to assist in identifying items that would help you and a community willing to trade them to you. Also keep in mind that not every character should be good at every thing. For some characters that is killing ranged opponents, or farming Nemeses, or even just moving quickly. For some characters that thing might be surviving against acid/poison or aether. If that's the case, then go farm other enemies. There are enough to go around.

Crate has established a system of resistances that makes about as much sense as possible while being reasonable. One could argue that a method of stopping poison doesn't stop acid, but that is beginning down the path of splitting hairs. I would need to hear a really good reason to add or remove a resist type in order to make it not feel either excessive or like the game was losing a part of itself.
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  #29  
Old 03-24-2017, 06:23 AM
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MortalKombat MortalKombat is offline
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Originally Posted by Billums View Post
Um, did you mean 6 or am I missing something? Even then, GD only has 9 main damage type resistances and physical resist as a more rare 10th. Stun resist and freeze resist are useful maybe 5% and 1% of the time, respectively. I don't know of any significant uses for immobilize, life leech, energy leech, etc resists. I think they kind of exist to give the players full disclosure, and the ability to tailor your character any way you want.

Whether 10 types of damage resists is excessive is subjective, I think. Yes, it's harder to deal with, but it feels more real and adds more flavor to the Grim Dawn world.

The only thing I would touch is physical resist, which feels sorely missed at low numbers and like it doesn't do much at high numbers. It is really hard to gauge and I can't put my finger on it or explain it. The only major mechanical change I can think of making would be to introduce overall magical type damage and physical type damage resists, but this would just open a whole new can of worms because there are, for instance, both physical and magical forms of chaos damage, and acid damage, and vitality damage. Just... no.

I will reiterate what Tyr said in a more polite tone: If you find yourself needing more resists, resist potions are an option that most people overlook. If that isn't enough, there are many resources available to assist in identifying items that would help you and a community willing to trade them to you. Also keep in mind that not every character should be good at every thing. For some characters that is killing ranged opponents, or farming Nemeses, or even just moving quickly. For some characters that thing might be surviving against acid/poison or aether. If that's the case, then go farm other enemies. There are enough to go around.

Crate has established a system of resistances that makes about as much sense as possible while being reasonable. One could argue that a method of stopping poison doesn't stop acid, but that is beginning down the path of splitting hairs. I would need to hear a really good reason to add or remove a resist type in order to make it not feel either excessive or like the game was losing a part of itself.
Stun resist is actually quite useful, there are quite a lot of enemies that can stun you. Freeze resist is more specific, but again, if you want to do Crucible well, you'll want it, against Moosilake. However, you can just use a potion to cap freeze resist, no need to have it on gear.
Sleep, petrify and energy leech resistances are quite useless (though energy leech resist can be good if you can burn energy yourself with attacks, against reflect). Life leech resist is useful only against Mad Queen, as far as i rememeber.
Bleed resist also can be skipped (unless you deal heavy bleed damage yourself, again). It's DoT only, so it gives you time to heal up, and there arent many enemies with really strong bleed damage.
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  #30  
Old 03-24-2017, 09:30 AM
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mammothhunter mammothhunter is offline
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Trap resist? BennJahr, Loxmere, Gutworm. Energy leech? Loxmere. Life leech? Rashalga. That can be done by swapping gear, if you even want it at all. At least Loxmere's spontaneous combustion was neutered after repeating complains, so you will likely never die from not having it.

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Originally Posted by MortalKombat View Post
Bleed resist also can be skipped (unless you deal heavy bleed damage yourself, again). It's DoT only, so it gives you time to heal up, and there arent many enemies with really strong bleed damage.
You should try that trick with Fabius. But really, bleed is quite common and can be nasty. Mobs that do have good bleed damage most of the time also have lots of physical or piercing and gap closers, so no time to heal up.
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