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  #11  
Old 08-01-2017, 09:24 AM
TZ Tz TZ Tz is offline
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Originally Posted by mad_lee View Post
I tried to build it around your gear choices. (Which are solid, except the amulet)

I still don't understand why you are using Sky Shard tho.

Bind Mines to Savagery and Reckless Tempest to Vines. Spam vines frequently.
Thanks for the grimtools
I tried your build suggestion, please pardon me, it's a bit fragile and struggled hard when facing fabius (died)

The upside :
Binding Reckelss Tempest to Vines is a good idea, it procs well, and good for clearing trash (It is if we use Vines though)

The downside (again pls pardon me, this is result from my testing) :
- your decision changing Survivor's Ingenuity and use Two Kymon's Vision made it lost 4% DA. Turn out it susceptible to be Crit by Notched Bone (not to mention if he dual wield it) - remember Fabius has DA shred

- Ultos Gem as amulet, well I think I need to make you realize how important the Attack Speed if we use weapon attack based builds.

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47554

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=40

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=90

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24256

Even Two Handed Ultos builds is better with Conjurer or Elementalist, they have more AS and RR

Did you know that Crate downgrade AS cap? it was on 250% max.
Even they nerfed AS from Devotion Constellation, eg: Dire Bear AS removed.

If you wanna feel more than current vanilla Attack Speed / Run Speed, try Ceno's Zenith, it has more than cap 200% AS and 135% RS

- Compare with the original setup, with your setup, the DPS loss around 4K (From 45K to 41K)

- Bonus Skill from Ultos Gem also useless, since we don't use Primal Strike Line, in this case, +1 to all Skills is to good if we discard it

- You dropped Riftstone component. The Chaos Strike is mainly usefull for mobility.
Druid itself is slow, when you lost ability to Blink, it make it worst. Well it's matter of preference though.
In this case, Warder or Trickster is better for DW or Two Handed Lightning Build, since they have their own ability for Blink.

- I see you use Raging Tempest for RR and saving devotion points.
Imo, Elemental Storm is better, it's RR last for 2 second compare with Raging Tempest that only last for 1 second. Also, I feel Wind Devil is a little bit slow.
~

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_lee View Post
- Heart of the Wild is optimal when it's at 10/10
- Do you really need Primal Spirit?
- Storm Totem, in my opinion, only looks good on Light Defender Elementalist.
- Heart of The Wild, we need Health. If I have a lot of points to spare, sometimes I will max it.
It also has Poison and Bleeding Duration Reduction which is nice.
Try combine it with Dryad's Blessing

- Primal Spirit is 1 point Wonder, bonus from Glyph of Kelphat'Zoth, Amulet, and Relic make it Level 5
(You can remove it if you don't like it, it's not mandatory)

- Storm Totem has got buff in the recent patch, this is lightning build anyway, additional damage is good

- Sky Shard, firstly I use it for testing Arcane Bomb if bound to it, it has 85% Chance on Attack.
I still keep it due to it's Frozen Core for freezing mobs.
Although we can use OFF for CC too.

Honestly I can't resist how cool Druid can be with this Sky Shard pose
Spoiler!
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Last edited by TZ Tz; 08-01-2017 at 09:47 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-01-2017, 03:58 PM
mad_lee mad_lee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TZ Tz View Post
Thanks for the grimtools
I tried your build suggestion, please pardon me, it's a bit fragile and struggled hard when facing fabius (died)

The upside :
Binding Reckelss Tempest to Vines is a good idea, it procs well, and good for clearing trash (It is if we use Vines though)

The downside (again pls pardon me, this is result from my testing) :
- your decision changing Survivor's Ingenuity and use Two Kymon's Vision made it lost 4% DA. Turn out it susceptible to be Crit by Notched Bone (not to mention if he dual wield it) - remember Fabius has DA shred

- Ultos Gem as amulet, well I think I need to make you realize how important the Attack Speed if we use weapon attack based builds.

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47554

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=40

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=90

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24256

Even Two Handed Ultos builds is better with Conjurer or Elementalist, they have more AS and RR

Did you know that Crate downgrade AS cap? it was on 250% max.
Even they nerfed AS from Devotion Constellation, eg: Dire Bear AS removed.

If you wanna feel more than current vanilla Attack Speed / Run Speed, try Ceno's Zenith, it has more than cap 200% AS and 135% RS

- Compare with the original setup, with your setup, the DPS loss around 4K (From 45K to 41K)

- Bonus Skill from Ultos Gem also useless, since we don't use Primal Strike Line, in this case, +1 to all Skills is to good if we discard it

- You dropped Riftstone component. The Chaos Strike is mainly usefull for mobility.
Druid itself is slow, when you lost ability to Blink, it make it worst. Well it's matter of preference though.
In this case, Warder or Trickster is better for DW or Two Handed Lightning Build, since they have their own ability for Blink.

- I see you use Raging Tempest for RR and saving devotion points.
Imo, Elemental Storm is better, it's RR last for 2 second compare with Raging Tempest that only last for 1 second. Also, I feel Wind Devil is a little bit slow.
~



- Heart of The Wild, we need Health. If I have a lot of points to spare, sometimes I will max it.
It also has Poison and Bleeding Duration Reduction which is nice.
Try combine it with Dryad's Blessing

- Primal Spirit is 1 point Wonder, bonus from Glyph of Kelphat'Zoth, Amulet, and Relic make it Level 5
(You can remove it if you don't like it, it's not mandatory)

- Storm Totem has got buff in the recent patch, this is lightning build anyway, additional damage is good

- Sky Shard, firstly I use it for testing Arcane Bomb if bound to it, it has 85% Chance on Attack.
I still keep it due to it's Frozen Core for freezing mobs.
Although we can use OFF for CC too.

Honestly I can't resist how cool Druid can be with this Sky Shard pose
Spoiler!
Well, if you tested my setup and it's worse, I concur.

I still don't understand how fabius cuts through your mirror/ghoul/prismatic range.

I also don't understand why you are mentioning net loss of DA. I have two grimtools links side by side and setup I offered actually has more DA and slightly more OA.

Did you follow my grimtools link completely?
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  #13  
Old 08-01-2017, 10:53 PM
TZ Tz TZ Tz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_lee View Post
Well, if you tested my setup and it's worse, I concur.

I still don't understand how fabius cuts through your mirror/ghoul/prismatic range.

I also don't understand why you are mentioning net loss of DA. I have two grimtools links side by side and setup I offered actually has more DA and slightly more OA.

Did you follow my grimtools link completely?
You only take 6/12 Mirror, it has 21.4s CD.
Ghoul also has long CD.
Idk why you said Prismatic for Fabius, with only 8s duration, 25s CD, and 130 Damage Absorption.
All of that could be triggered even while you fighting trash mobs.
In the some cases, they may not triggered at all, you already died after being crit by fabius.

About DA, usually people we'll use Survivor's Ingenuity on their Rings and Amulet. It gives net +60% to All Damage, +6% OA, and +6% DA.
You use two Kymon's Vision components, and sacrifice +4% DA if you use Survivor's Ingenuity instead.

I actually follow your grimtools link completely.
The only different is I have to change 1 Corpse Dust to a Polished Emerald in order to equip Crystallums due to Cunning requirement.

Spoiler!

This is perhaps an exception from Dammitt's Grimtools, since it doesn't check Weapon attributes requirement with character attributes.

Crystallum Required Cunning: 404. In your given grimtools, the character only has 400 Cunning. We shouldn't able to equip it.

Since you already have Druid, if you don't have Dual Crystallums, you can try craft Lightning Exalted Dagger in BS.
Try and test your setup for fighting Fabius, if you have better setup and it works, please let me know
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  #14  
Old 08-02-2017, 03:06 AM
mad_lee mad_lee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TZ Tz View Post

Since you already have Druid, if you don't have Dual Crystallums, you can try craft Lightning Exalted Dagger in BS.
Try and test your setup for fighting Fabius, if you have better setup and it works, please let me know
I don't have Crystallums and spare Haunted Steel, so can't test. But if you say you have tested it, I believe you, I was theory crafting after all. On paper my build had more oa/da than yours, but if you say it's more squishy, oh well. I am guessing Trickster would be a better choice for Dual Wielding Savagery build overall.

I also fired up my druid and found Fabius, took him down in like 20-25 seconds, facetanking all the way, hitting his Blade Barrier, no f..ks given. He didn't even proc my Ghoul. So really don't know where the weak point is in your build.
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Last edited by mad_lee; 08-02-2017 at 03:13 AM.
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  #15  
Old 08-02-2017, 04:04 AM
TZ Tz TZ Tz is offline
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The advantage of using two handed shaman is you have access to Brute Force and Primal Strike line.
Brute Force's Feral Hunger has very nice ADctH
Primal Strike also provides very good AoE

When Dual Wielding, you can't use Feral Hunger.
If only there's no two handed weapon requirement
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  #16  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:35 PM
mad_lee mad_lee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TZ Tz View Post
The advantage of using two handed shaman is you have access to Brute Force and Primal Strike line.
Brute Force's Feral Hunger has very nice ADctH
Primal Strike also provides very good AoE

When Dual Wielding, you can't use Feral Hunger.
If only there's no two handed weapon requirement
Yeah, but you have twice the attack speed and Haunted Steel on weapon, which means much more health returned + Bloodthirster.
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  #17  
Old 08-02-2017, 09:42 PM
TZ Tz TZ Tz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_lee View Post
Yeah, but you have twice the attack speed and Haunted Steel on weapon, which means much more health returned + Bloodthirster.
Yeah, with my original setup it works.

But with your suggested setup it doesn't work.

Compare with two handed shaman, Two handed has more dps, so health returned from ADctH is good enough to heal you (Moreover you use full Ultos Legendary Set - even it nerfed, it seems it still good for lightning Shaman)
Don't understimate Feral Hunger ADctH (it's also AoE).
Also you have damage reduction skill on your two handed druid.

"you have twice the attack speed"
So if your Druid has 150% AS, my Druid should has 300% AS.
May be you can explain to me how is the exact number of this "twice"

That's what I said, you need to test it yourself, so you can get the feel / touch.
Sometimes it's just not enough theorycrafting, it need to be tested.
Theory on the paper could be totally different when practice in the real game
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Last edited by TZ Tz; 08-02-2017 at 10:10 PM.
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  #18  
Old 08-02-2017, 11:59 PM
mad_lee mad_lee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TZ Tz View Post
That's what I said, you need to test it yourself, so you can get the feel / touch.
Sometimes it's just not enough theorycrafting, it need to be tested.
Theory on the paper could be totally different when practice in the real game
Totally agreed, plus, last time I dual wielded melee weapons was in Diablo 2 LOD, so I really don't know much about how such builds work in Grim Dawn. Can you make a video of how AOE works on your build, like in late Challenger waves?
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  #19  
Old 08-03-2017, 02:22 AM
TZ Tz TZ Tz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_lee View Post
like in late Challenger waves?
Unfortunately I can't, don't have the dlc.

You can watch it here for clearing mobs
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  #20  
Old 01-07-2018, 04:53 AM
TZ Tz TZ Tz is offline
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Updated Devotion Route for Level 85 (requested by a friend)

Cheers
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