Go Back   Grim Dawn Forums > Grim Dawn Gameplay > Classes, Skills and Builds

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 07-08-2016, 08:19 AM
Squib's Avatar
Squib Squib is offline
Counsel
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosblade02 View Post
I agree with Jaja, but I'm not here to knock your build or anything.

But lets face reality here. Sub 2k DA and sub 15k HP is not a tanky build. That's within the realm of oneshot potential by mobs like "The Iron Maiden" who hit me for 11500 in one attack. And its possible she could have RNG'd an even higher hit. But I don't go back for seconds vs bosses that are guaranteed to oneshot me just to see if they could oneshot me even harder.

And considering the above, its understandable why you'd use consumables to stay alive in HC. Can't say I blame you. I know I would with that amount of DA and HP in HC.
I agree it's no tank like Hetzer, though I do consider the included numbers tanky (my Warlock is about to finish with 6700 hp and a DA at 1568). Furthermore, I believe "tanky" is defined as more than it's hp and DA but needs to be all encompassing into the role of a tank. Which is the ability to take hits until the need to take hits is completed. In this particular build it's important to factor in life steal, health regen, weapon swap (to shield as shown in the build), circuit breakers, etc. For example, while you see 12k hp. With the circuit breaker Menhir's Will which automatically heals for 47% hp (level 8) or 65% hp (max normal level) I don't see 12k hp, I see the additional 47% and 65% on top of 12k hp equaling from 17.5k hp (level 8 MW) to 20k hp (max level 16 MW). Not to mention other item based circuit breakers like Mark of Divinity, Avatar of Mercy, etc. There are many other factors that contribute such as gear combos, devs like tortoise, etc. Gear combos are a biggy too. If I go farming The Iron Maiden, I might swap out my medal for the mark of divinity which adds 600k hp, more resistances, and yet another circuit breaker and my belt over to Tinker's Ingenuity to finish off my resistances. As I posted in my video vs Loghorrean. Even with this gear change out I can hit 100k DPS without a single offensive consumable (and no clusters...).
__________________
Hardcore Deaths (high level): Lvl 60 Blademaster, Lvl 62 Blademaster, Lvl 81 Spellbreaker.
Hardcore Ultimate 100% Completions: Lvl 85 Retaliation/Reflect Warder, Lvl 85 Pet Based Conjurer. Lvl 85 2H Lightning/Life Steal Warder.
AoM Hardcore Ultimate 100% Completions: Lvl 100 Ritualist (pets galore)

Last edited by Squib; 07-08-2016 at 08:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-08-2016, 08:39 AM
blawsonhull blawsonhull is offline
Herald
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,388
Default

great build! Loxmere is the only mob who strips your buffs, makes sense to pop cluster on him. i have every item there except Ultos helmet; but all those set helmets you have to craft correct?

back to moos farming...
__________________
I have many level 100s blah blah.
Current list of Gladiator grads: IT warder, ice tank tactician, 2H WB, lightning druid, lightning pet cabalist, and 2H bleed warder.
WIPs: contagion conjurer, poison conjurer, elemental sorcerer, elemental tank, aether battlemage
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-08-2016, 09:04 AM
Squib's Avatar
Squib Squib is offline
Counsel
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blawsonhull View Post
i have every item there except Ultos helmet; but all those set helmets you have to craft correct?
You are correct, legendary helms have to be crafted. Epic ones can be crafted but I've also found them on drops including those in epic sets. Like you're doing with the nemesis, I've also found many of my blueprints from treasure troves (locked chests) but those are random now since the last update.
__________________
Hardcore Deaths (high level): Lvl 60 Blademaster, Lvl 62 Blademaster, Lvl 81 Spellbreaker.
Hardcore Ultimate 100% Completions: Lvl 85 Retaliation/Reflect Warder, Lvl 85 Pet Based Conjurer. Lvl 85 2H Lightning/Life Steal Warder.
AoM Hardcore Ultimate 100% Completions: Lvl 100 Ritualist (pets galore)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-08-2016, 09:31 AM
TomoDaK TomoDaK is offline
Praetorian
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,355
Default

jaja presents totally valid point you reply 'ive been awaiting your salty reply'

that being said fun build, i dig it
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-08-2016, 09:53 AM
Squib's Avatar
Squib Squib is offline
Counsel
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomoDaK View Post
jaja presents totally valid point you reply 'ive been awaiting your salty reply'

that being said fun build, i dig it
LOL yeah he's salty. Was not an insult, just keeping things fresh. Can always count on jaja (and others) for a 'cup check' on your build. As far as his post goes, I felt he was being genuine too which is why I took some time to reply addressing his points.
__________________
Hardcore Deaths (high level): Lvl 60 Blademaster, Lvl 62 Blademaster, Lvl 81 Spellbreaker.
Hardcore Ultimate 100% Completions: Lvl 85 Retaliation/Reflect Warder, Lvl 85 Pet Based Conjurer. Lvl 85 2H Lightning/Life Steal Warder.
AoM Hardcore Ultimate 100% Completions: Lvl 100 Ritualist (pets galore)

Last edited by Squib; 07-08-2016 at 09:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-11-2016, 12:45 PM
jajaja jajaja is offline
Emissary
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 861
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squib View Post
LOL yeah he's salty. Was not an insult, just keeping things fresh. Can always count on jaja (and others) for a 'cup check' on your build. As far as his post goes, I felt he was being genuine too which is why I took some time to reply addressing his points.
calling people salty sounds a bit insulting to me, since it's directed at my personality when i've only commented on a part of your build. i know i can come across as sarcastic at times but its only directed at specific parts of the build, i don't go around calling names or judging people's personalities. u post build here u open up it up for feedback.
so here is the "non-sarcastic" version of my feedback:

you market your build as "100k+ DPS TANK" in all caps. however, you do a ton of gear switching and using consumables + long CDs to tank bosses. aether cluster vs loxmere, menhir's relic vs shar'zul etc. while doing these things are perfectly acceptable in HC. when you do it in a demo video it shows zero information about the tankiness of your build, as any build can tank bosses when using the above cooldowns/consumables.

when you market your build as 100k+ DPS in caps, this implies that its a high dps build, however, many of my 30-40k dps autoattack builds drastically outdps you based on ur boss kill time. the point here isn't that my build is better than yours or anything, its simply that your 100k+ dps is a bit misleading if 30-40k dps builds routinely out dps you due to reasons that may be: ur 100k dps consists of short lived procs, u lack -resist, ur 100k dps setup isn't viable against real bosses and u must gear switch to a much lower dps setup in actual gameplay.

while i am not saying your build is bad. your title is very misleading and a bit braggy for the actual performance of the build.

i know hc is harder than sc and i always give hc build makers more respect by default. however, if you don't feel safe using ur 100k dps setup against real bosses so that it's only viable against dummies... a bit disingenuous to title the post as such no?
__________________
Melee lover.

Last edited by jajaja; 07-11-2016 at 01:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-11-2016, 02:48 PM
Soulbinder Soulbinder is offline
Initiate
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1
Thumbs Up

Hi,

great guide, you sure put a lot of time into this, thanks!

As a new player, I am having trouble in understanding how exctly this infinite loop of procs works. It would be really helpful, if you would add another part to the guide, where you explain in detail

1. What are the procs that create the loop
2. Which gear/devotion/skill is required to get access to that proc
3. What are the proc chances and how can they be influenced (if at all)?

Cheers
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-12-2016, 07:56 AM
Squib's Avatar
Squib Squib is offline
Counsel
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jajaja View Post
calling people salty sounds a bit insulting to me, since it's directed at my personality when i've only commented on a part of your build. i know i can come across as sarcastic at times but its only directed at specific parts of the build, i don't go around calling names or judging people's personalities. u post build here u open up it up for feedback.
so here is the "non-sarcastic" version of my feedback:

you market your build as "100k+ DPS TANK" in all caps. however, you do a ton of gear switching and using consumables + long CDs to tank bosses. aether cluster vs loxmere, menhir's relic vs shar'zul etc. while doing these things are perfectly acceptable in HC. when you do it in a demo video it shows zero information about the tankiness of your build, as any build can tank bosses when using the above cooldowns/consumables.

when you market your build as 100k+ DPS in caps, this implies that its a high dps build, however, many of my 30-40k dps autoattack builds drastically outdps you based on ur boss kill time. the point here isn't that my build is better than yours or anything, its simply that your 100k+ dps is a bit misleading if 30-40k dps builds routinely out dps you due to reasons that may be: ur 100k dps consists of short lived procs, u lack -resist, ur 100k dps setup isn't viable against real bosses and u must gear switch to a much lower dps setup in actual gameplay.

while i am not saying your build is bad. your title is very misleading and a bit braggy for the actual performance of the build.

i know hc is harder than sc and i always give hc build makers more respect by default. however, if you don't feel safe using ur 100k dps setup against real bosses so that it's only viable against dummies... a bit disingenuous to title the post as such no?
Forgive me, I didn't mean to sound insulting. I viewed it as more of a comradery, you give me an elbow jab, I give you one but it was meant in good fun, so again, my apologies.

To answer the challenge of my mis-marketing my character, I completely disagree. First, the direct challenge, can I maintain 100k+ damage build and go up against real bosses, the answer is yes, without any of the consumables you mentioned, and I can drop Shar'Zul (BoC boss) in ~12 seconds doing so. In this video I will show you my specs, and my damage output not only on paper shows over 100k but you will see crits against Shar'Zul averaging around 80k and there are many of them. You will see the crits alone almost hit 100k. (95k I believe). So with that, I VERY comfortably market my build as able to do over 100k in damage. Shar'Zul and Loxmere videos have been replaced to reflect this.

To answer the second challenge of this build Tanking. No in terms of defense this guy is no Hetzer. However I define Tankyness as being able to take hits until the need to take hits is completed. This build factors in far more than hp and defense ability as another stated (though those things are important). To understand how this build is tanky you must realize it does so primarily offensively ("best defense is a good offense"). When you can land a crit for 95,000 (even against Shar'Zul who has good resistances) and have 17% life steal you get a lot of HP in return even with their life steal resistances (which were relaxed in the last patch which is partly why I ran with this build). Notice how my health tops off with each hit. Life steal makes me not care about DoT such as bleeding and poison as they take to long to do any real damage compared to my life steal which over compensates.

The next big factor you need to consider is my circuit breakers (which did not trigger in this video though I had Menhir's will). While my paper HP is 13,000 the 45%-65% hp return I get when my circuit breaker activates essentially adds 6k - 9k hp to my build. This means I'm carrying 19k - 22k worth of health. Not to mention the INSANE hp regen MW gives you when it activates. With this kind of damage output, even if it does trigger, I usually have them dropped well before it goes into CD. One more factor and again I mentioned this in my OP is weapon swap. At any time I can gain 50% health with crazy regen just by swapping over to a shield which makes my guy VERY much more tanky and still has 50k-60k paper DPS. Our characters have weapon swap allowing them to equip two weapon/shield sets at once, I've simply utilized that as demonstrated in this video.

You said your 30k witchblade could drop Shar'Zul in ~20 seconds, I cut that time almost in half after I added resist reduction like you did using Curse of Frailty. And I showed my #'s so they are transparent so there's no question of false advertising. I play strictly hardcore as I like the additional challenge. This however has caused me to not enjoy some of the high damage output's I've seen others do who don't mind racking up the deaths. (This is also partly to me not trading gear either so I've got a lot of guys on hold until I can find the gear they were meant for). This build allowed me to enjoy some of the number's I've seen softcore players put out and still keep my guy as Tanky as I need him to be in hardcore. With that, I wanted to share my build for others in the community that was also applicable to the hardcore community like myself.

As far as gear swapping on the rest of my gear (that's not part of weapon swap). 99% of the time I play with the 100k+ DPS as you see in the video I shared. This includes primary bosses such as Shar'Zul and Loghorrean and also some Nemesis bosses I've encountered so far as well. However non traditional bosses such as the Mad Queen I've swapped over to my shield build. I'm not sure if I needed too but playing hardcore...I like to error on the side of overkill. With that I don't mind throwing on Menhir's Bastion. This drops my ratcheted DPS down to about 85k. Or I can switch to the shield for 60k or 50k with Menhir's Bastion. And I only need/use this for 1% of this game. Because of that I didn't likely need to include it in my build but I appreciate full disclosure. Consequently that's also why my original videos showed me using consumables. I wasn't trying to hide it... I fully endorse using consumables, they're cheap and again I prefer to side on overkill when playing hardcore. Honestly I was more jazzed about the procs. I've now swapped the two out you mentioned for updated videos requiring no buff giving consumables.

This post is getting so long I should add it to the guide... I hope my transparency has shed some light on your concerns.
__________________
Hardcore Deaths (high level): Lvl 60 Blademaster, Lvl 62 Blademaster, Lvl 81 Spellbreaker.
Hardcore Ultimate 100% Completions: Lvl 85 Retaliation/Reflect Warder, Lvl 85 Pet Based Conjurer. Lvl 85 2H Lightning/Life Steal Warder.
AoM Hardcore Ultimate 100% Completions: Lvl 100 Ritualist (pets galore)

Last edited by Squib; 07-12-2016 at 08:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-12-2016, 08:30 AM
Squib's Avatar
Squib Squib is offline
Counsel
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulbinder View Post
Hi,

great guide, you sure put a lot of time into this, thanks!

As a new player, I am having trouble in understanding how exctly this infinite loop of procs works. It would be really helpful, if you would add another part to the guide, where you explain in detail

1. What are the procs that create the loop
2. Which gear/devotion/skill is required to get access to that proc
3. What are the proc chances and how can they be influenced (if at all)?

Cheers
All good questions. Working on it along with some gear and component touch ups and alternate GrimCalc's, and I hope to have it up soon.
__________________
Hardcore Deaths (high level): Lvl 60 Blademaster, Lvl 62 Blademaster, Lvl 81 Spellbreaker.
Hardcore Ultimate 100% Completions: Lvl 85 Retaliation/Reflect Warder, Lvl 85 Pet Based Conjurer. Lvl 85 2H Lightning/Life Steal Warder.
AoM Hardcore Ultimate 100% Completions: Lvl 100 Ritualist (pets galore)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-12-2016, 11:03 AM
jajaja jajaja is offline
Emissary
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 861
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squib View Post

To answer the challenge of ...
The new vid u post is indeed consistent with the suggested performance. why the big difference between this and the old one?

some other suggestions:
while its good that your guide is newbie friendly. more veteran players will probably just want to go straight to a quick glance of grimcalc with +skills and devos, this together with the gear setup should be enough for them get the general gist of the build.

I looked through your post trying to find this and it was very difficult, i still didn't find one that includes both endgame skills and devotions in one link. did i miss it? Would be great if it was in an obvious portion of the very first post.

since your DA is on the low side, the small amounts of dps ur getting from putting points in spirit/cunning really isn't worth imo. going full physique is great with soldier scaling an additional +18% which will give u some much needed DA. offensive devos+gear give so much %dmg the return u actually get from the stats is pretty minimal, especially when split between two.

scars of battle is reallly amazing, if theres anyway to squeeze some points for it from other areas it seems worth such as oak skin. squad tactics past lvl 7 isn't worth it IMO, its like 5 points for 3% ias and a very small amount of dmg.

finally, correct me if im wrong but procs like zolhans/markovians/feralhunger replaces ur upheaval as the two cannot happen at once. a lvl 1 zolhans is actually weaker than upheaval. Savagery itself is a 170%ish weapon dmg attack, while a lvl1 zolhans/markovian are much less. my understanding is that when they proc they replace ur savagery attack, so ur replacing a 170% dmg attack with a 75% zolhan, resulting in dps loss, or does it work differently?
__________________
Melee lover.

Last edited by jajaja; 07-12-2016 at 11:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lightning, savagery, shaman, soldier, warder

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Grim Dawn ©2018 Crate Entertainment, LLC.
vBulletin® 3.8.4 ©2000-2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.