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  #1  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:02 PM
Sikkens Sikkens is offline
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Default Paragon level system or something of the sort.

Well,if there is one thing i like in D3 its the feeling that even if you don't find items,you still feel like progressing.

The idea of an ARPG is of course rerolling and trying new stuff,the gear hunt and that feeling when this damn piece finally drops.

But there is the void in-between,where you mow down monsters and pretty much nothing happens. Path of exile deals with this by having really hard final 5 levels to get(which i don't want in GD) and D3 got the paragon system.

I think a similar system will greatly improve GD feeling of progress,even if you don't mind making new builds all the time.

If you are able to "level" up after you reach max level or something,just to increase your life by 0.001% it will IMO still give a sense of progression that i can't help but feel is currently lacking.

After 650 hours with the game for me personally that is the only gripe i have currently.

Thoughts?

Last edited by Sikkens; 02-20-2018 at 04:14 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:08 PM
Norzan Norzan is online now
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Uh, no, just no. Taking forever to reach max level (or whatever is it you need to do to reach max stats) is a sure way to make me stop playing the game altogether.
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  #3  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:13 PM
Sikkens Sikkens is offline
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I will edit my post,i DEFINITELY don't want it to be like PoE. The level 100 thing currently is fine.
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  This is the last staff post in this thread.   #4  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:15 PM
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Zantai Zantai is online now
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Our philosophy on this topic, and I've offered commentary when this had come up before, is that we want there to be a definitive end point to character building. You should be able to look at a character some day and be able to say "yup, this character is done".

On top of that, an endless progression system is incredibly punishing/discouraging to new/returning players. Nothing like knowing that the only way you'll catch up to those who had been playing thousands of hours is to play thousands yourself (which effectively means you cannot catch up if they are also still playing).
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Old 02-20-2018, 04:24 PM
Sikkens Sikkens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantai View Post
Our philosophy on this topic, and I've offered commentary when this had come up before, is that we want there to be a definitive end point to character building. You should be able to look at a character some day and be able to say "yup, this character is done".

On top of that, an endless progression system is incredibly punishing/discouraging to new/returning players. Nothing like knowing that the only way you'll catch up to those who had been playing thousands of hours is to play thousands yourself (which effectively means you cannot catch up if they are also still playing).
That indeed is a problem in D3,the powercreep from the paragon system is insane. Can't argue with that.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:23 AM
Onmastikon Onmastikon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantai View Post
Our philosophy on this topic, and I've offered commentary when this had come up before, is that we want there to be a definitive end point to character building. You should be able to look at a character some day and be able to say "yup, this character is done".

On top of that, an endless progression system is incredibly punishing/discouraging to new/returning players. Nothing like knowing that the only way you'll catch up to those who had been playing thousands of hours is to play thousands yourself (which effectively means you cannot catch up if they are also still playing).
Independently of the fact that never-ending Paragon mini-bonuses are not particularly pleasing, I've puzzled over these remarks you've made before as well. Unfortunately, it seems that a "definitive end point to character building" in GD only comes after you have accumulated sufficient gear, not after you have obtained level 100. Someone who has played the game for thousands of hours will be far, boundlessley far more advanced as yourself, and if that person continues to play GD, you will never catch up. So while your "philosophy" is commendable, it's not implemented consistently.

As unsatisfying as D3 is in so many ways, it comes much closer to fulfilling your goal there. A character is "finished" very quickly, and not long thereafter obtains all the gear it needs for at least one kind of build it can do. Respeccing is painless. D2 was almost entirely different in that regard. PoE comes closer to the goal without becoming a D3 washout; balancing the carrot that must be there to continue to motivate players to continue (you *can* reach level 100, it's just bloody hard; you *can* get better gear and/or accumulate currency used towards creating it, but the gear you have is still ok) while giving a sense of accomplishment you seem to want. The gap between the point at which you reach 100 / finish game content and the point at which you obtain gear suitable for a sense of accomplishment is much, much larger in GD.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:57 AM
medea fleecestealer medea fleecestealer is online now
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Expect I'm in the minority of players, but for me a character is done when I finish the game. I don't care if I have the best gear by the end of the game, though I will raid my collection as needed for all my toons at all levels, I only care that my build's got me to the end of the game hopefully without too many deaths. Nor do I care what anyone else is doing with their characters - the only person I measure myself against is me. If my skill choices have worked, my devotions choices have worked that's my achievement.

This paragon system sounds like some sort of league table where I'm supposed to measure myself against a player like Dikkie who has over 12,000 hours in the game. Why? While I admire his dedication and applaud his achievement in doing so, I'm not interested in comparing myself to him. GD is mainly a single player game anyway so why would I want to know what other players are doing?

I get that most other players will want to tweak their characters with gear, components, augments to make it the best it can be whether they do that by farming for stuff or whatever. But that's not for me.

You also have to ask if having such a system would actually encourage more players to play the game to the higher levels. Zantai's already said that most players only play the game through Normal and then move on to something else. So would it really be a good use of Crate's time and investment to implement something like that?
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  #8  
Old 02-23-2018, 07:24 AM
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Stupid Dragon Stupid Dragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medea fleecestealer View Post
This paragon system sounds like some sort of league table where I'm supposed to measure myself against a player like Dikkie who has over 12,000 hours in the game.
It essentially is. Moreover, since newcomers measuring themselves up against players who have 10k+ hours invested up isn't that fun for newcomers, D3 also implements "seasons".

For a single player person Paragon has only one implication - you continue to accumulate exp after level 100 and gain stat points, which you could spend on small things in separate interface, like +10 HP, +1 OA, +1 DA etc. This accumulated paragon level carries over to all characters, so it's not lost when you make a new char.
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Last edited by Stupid Dragon; 02-23-2018 at 07:34 AM.
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  #9  
Old 02-23-2018, 06:47 PM
bryanw1995 bryanw1995 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onmastikon View Post
Independently of the fact that never-ending Paragon mini-bonuses are not particularly pleasing, I've puzzled over these remarks you've made before as well. Unfortunately, it seems that a "definitive end point to character building" in GD only comes after you have accumulated sufficient gear, not after you have obtained level 100. Someone who has played the game for thousands of hours will be far, boundlessley far more advanced as yourself, and if that person continues to play GD, you will never catch up. So while your "philosophy" is commendable, it's not implemented consistently.

As unsatisfying as D3 is in so many ways, it comes much closer to fulfilling your goal there. A character is "finished" very quickly, and not long thereafter obtains all the gear it needs for at least one kind of build it can do. Respeccing is painless. D2 was almost entirely different in that regard. PoE comes closer to the goal without becoming a D3 washout; balancing the carrot that must be there to continue to motivate players to continue (you *can* reach level 100, it's just bloody hard; you *can* get better gear and/or accumulate currency used towards creating it, but the gear you have is still ok) while giving a sense of accomplishment you seem to want. The gap between the point at which you reach 100 / finish game content and the point at which you obtain gear suitable for a sense of accomplishment is much, much larger in GD.
The whole point though is that you can get the "endgame gear". For many that will take thousands of hours, but not always. There is a lot of luck involved, you could get the perfect gear pieces in 200 hours instead of 2000 hours on some characters.
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  #10  
Old 02-23-2018, 07:16 PM
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Darkstalix Darkstalix is offline
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Im very pleased with waht we have atm and very thankfull for all these free updates.
But id prefer a system like rifts of diablo 3 thats all with timer to kill em all with random map etc.
A paragon system is an overkill tbh
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