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Old 09-16-2018, 06:47 PM
hammyhamster1 hammyhamster1 is offline
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Default Devotion Nerfs and Buffs thread

I've been slowly going many of the devotions and also experimenting with the procs in various manners.

Like the thread started for class +/-, devotions also need a voice. Post your specific thoughts and suggestions.

I know many feel that weaker should be buffed and that's a fine approach with specific suggestions. I don't always look at it that way, so take a breath and tolerate my nerf preference (or suggest counter-buffs, etc).

I've already made some previous suggestions and I won't rehash those. These were tier 1 and now I'm looking more at 2+. However no reason not to comment if you have T1 thoughts.

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One that I have thought a lot about and used a lot is DG. Imho Dead God needs a bit of a nerf for the Dead god proc. This mostly impacts non-dot and pets.

Reasoning:
The constellation is very easy to qualify for at 15 blue/8 red and has plenty of OA , and even if not chaos/vit - you are only getting one empty node

Proc(Hungering Void)
-if you look at the math and the typical meta of 3k OA:

Let's assume you have 1000+% in a damage type. finding 200% in some path adds 20% damage for that type. Which is on all the time.
HV's proc adds 40% damage limited to crits for everything, but also adds 10% to speed, which adds 10% more damage, even if not crit.

Now the problem is that to find the large +% in other ways, you usually have to commit to larger node investments to get it.

I'm thinking the DG proc needs the following tweaks:
crit ->30%
pet -> 100% damage, 5%crit
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammyhamster1 View Post
Proc(Hungering Void)
-if you look at the math and the typical meta of 3k OA:

Let's assume you have 1000+% in a damage type. finding 200% in some path adds 20% damage for that type. Which is on all the time.
HV's proc adds 40% damage limited to crits for everything, but also adds 10% to speed, which adds 10% more damage, even if not crit.

Now the problem is that to find the large +% in other ways, you usually have to commit to larger node investments to get it.

I'm thinking the DG proc needs the following tweaks:
crit ->30%
pet -> 100% damage, 5%crit
1000% stacked damage is very low. High end builds usually have at least 2000%, which means extra 200% damage is the 10% increase for chaos/vitality builds, not 20%.

10% attack speed will boost your dps by 10% only if you have 100% attack speed. If you have 190% already it's only a 5% boost to dps (not including procs, by the way).

3k oa against 2.6k da (typical value for ultimate nemesises) is about 15% crit chance which with 40% crit damage means 6% increase provided there's zero other sources of crit damage. Realistically it'll be 4-5%.

So, 1.1*1.05*1.05 = 1.21 = 21% damage boost
The uptime is 2/3, so actually a 14% damage boost. This I think is pretty optimistic as well.
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Last edited by Stupid Dragon; 09-16-2018 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:39 PM
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If we're talking about nerfs, nerf all tanky devotions. Why? By only devotions, you can reach a super tanky character (but you have to sacrifice devotion-damage), and therefore you can make a character that is fairly tanky and still deal enormous damage by only picking appropriate devotions (this is, RR and going fully tanky). If your build contains enough RR, you can ignore any RR from devotions and still be super strong (but some bosses+ will receive a little less damage from you). Anyway, they won't nerf it anyway, so feel free to think I am butthurt (I actually kinda am, ngl tbh btw).
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USER_NAME_01 View Post
If we're talking about nerfs, nerf all tanky devotions. Why? By only devotions, you can reach a super tanky character (but you have to sacrifice devotion-damage), and therefore you can make a character that is fairly tanky and still deal enormous damage by only picking appropriate devotions (this is, RR and going fully tanky). If your build contains enough RR, you can ignore any RR from devotions and still be super strong (but some bosses+ will receive a little less damage from you). Anyway, they won't nerf it anyway, so feel free to think I am butthurt (I actually kinda am, ngl tbh btw).
Quite on contrary I think raising character durability by going defensive devotions is very suboptimal. The fact that pretty much everyone goes for respective t3 constellations instead of yellow-blue corner supports my opinion. Honestly I'd like to see some defensive constellations buffed, esp. behemoth. The reason is it'll reduce the importance of going full physique.
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Old 09-16-2018, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupid Dragon View Post
Quite on contrary I think raising character durability by going defensive devotions is very suboptimal. The fact that pretty much everyone goes for respective t3 constellations instead of yellow-blue corner supports my opinion. Honestly I'd like to see some defensive constellations buffed, esp. behemoth. The reason is it'll reduce the importance of going full physique.
I understand your opinion, and it does make a lot of sense (I also knew that before). I basically said that because I managed to make two tanks that can facetank everything except for Mogdrogen (although, not sure about the tactician, not sure if he can't facetank Mog) and still deal 40k+ damage per hit (or DPS). I mean, for an unkillable machine that can heal once every few seconds and has no lifesteal, it is kind of [insert a word that describes something that is completely fucked up and retarded as fuck and is not a vulgarism]. I totally agree that it is kinda suboptimal to do what I said, but, damn, it's fucking effective. No, no behemoth devotion. Only if you have 3 spare points. And unlocked it. Maybe even by a mistake.
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Old 09-16-2018, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USER_NAME_01 View Post
I understand your opinion, and it does make a lot of sense (I also knew that before). I basically said that because I managed to make two tanks that can facetank everything except for Mogdrogen (although, not sure about the tactician, not sure if he can't facetank Mog) and still deal 40k+ damage per hit (or DPS). I mean, for an unkillable machine that can heal once every few seconds and has no lifesteal, it is kind of [insert a word that describes something that is completely fucked up and retarded as fuck and is not a vulgarism]. I totally agree that it is kinda suboptimal to do what I said, but, damn, it's fucking effective. No, no behemoth devotion. Only if you have 3 spare points. And unlocked it. Maybe even by a mistake.
You start gutting defensive devotions or class defenses just because build X can get 'too tanky' and build diversity will start to take a noise dive. Because then sets that were already light on defensive stats have nowhere to turn to and become (even more) obsolete. And I gotta agree with Stupid Dragon here, most times I've tried getting defenses from devotions and making up the difference with gear/augs its worked out far worse than if I go the other way around...

(In before I get told to dress all my casters in full plate with 6-7% global armor bonuses on all my crafted items if I want to take a hit...not meaning you with this one User_name)

Last edited by Silben; 09-16-2018 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:58 PM
mad_lee mad_lee is offline
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Gutting defensive devotions, really? I've made 9 different characters, all of them are Crucible Gladiator 150-170, not even once I have used T3 defensive devotion (except in one of my earlier builds where I used Light of Empyrion - DW fire defiler, but I also changed devotion map afterwards, because build wasn't any good in late Crucible regardless of defensive devotions).

If anything, buff those devotions.
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Old 09-17-2018, 01:23 AM
Smitherson Smitherson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USER_NAME_01 View Post
If we're talking about nerfs, nerf all tanky devotions. Why? By only devotions, you can reach a super tanky character (but you have to sacrifice devotion-damage), and therefore you can make a character that is fairly tanky and still deal enormous damage by only picking appropriate devotions (this is, RR and going fully tanky). If your build contains enough RR, you can ignore any RR from devotions and still be super strong (but some bosses+ will receive a little less damage from you). Anyway, they won't nerf it anyway, so feel free to think I am butthurt (I actually kinda am, ngl tbh btw).
The only builds than can possibly afford to do this are physical or pierce, because they only have a single RR constellation and therefore can spare more points for tankiness. Even then, it's a heavily suboptimal choice with the exception of forcewave witchblades or a DW Beronath build who gets more mileage from Empyrion. And even for those, Ulzuin's Torch and Dying God remain perfectly competitive options.
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Old 09-17-2018, 01:25 AM
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More like no one needs defensive devotion setup cause campaign is easy enough without it. Crucible has also been that way since the DA nerf. The only case I can make for defensive devotions is when you wanna clear 170 glad with no buffs/banners or you're undergeared.

The best buff for defensive devotions is a general mob buff. But that turned into a DA fest last patch. Idk what to do with them rn.
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Old 09-17-2018, 02:55 AM
ChaossssMark ChaossssMark is offline
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Can I propose something?

Increase Driad's devotion completion bonus to 4 Yellow.

My reasoning is simple: 5 nodes (even very good ones) for 3 points seems wrong. Also, it would enable some builds with very tight point allocation could use the diversity.

Thoughts?
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