#21  
Old 11-19-2018, 01:16 AM
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kukuhimanpr kukuhimanpr is offline
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Frankly, I'd rather see many varieties of enemy mobs compositions/elite enemies appearances in a static map rather than a randomized map layout.

And static, handcrafted map gives more strong establishment of the map's presence in lore. Also more opportunity to polish the map with more aesthetic addons and gameplay enhancements.

Titan Quest had beautifully designed maps, even though it's linearly designed, since the main quests are also linear.

Sacred 1 and 2 Only had static maps too. But the sheer size of the game's map makes up for it. and it's quests are more open world oriented than Titan Quest.

Like some other said, I think Diablo 2 wouldn't suffer much if it chose static map design. Static map design means more valuable time and resources can be directed to enhance other aspects of gameplay.

And don't forget, the upcoming shattering mode will be the proper fix for those who really wants randomized map layout.
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2018, 03:15 AM
Oblivionlord Oblivionlord is offline
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Originally Posted by mamba View Post
Diablo would have been a success without random layouts as well. The randomized maps added next to nothing to the game, so yes, to me that system is a failure as it was more detrimental than beneficial.



You seem to think that Diablo was successful only because it had randomized maps, and for no other reason. I can like a game for any number of reasons, that does not mean I think that no part of it can be improved.



I rarely see this coming up. Also, I still have no idea how map randomization helps at all with that. It is still the same quests, fighting the same mobs and bosses in the same environments. So you already know everything expect whether to turn left or the right in the corridor of what you already know is the last dungeon in the area to locate the boss you also already know.
If that is enough of a difference to keep you entertained while not having it bores you, then I do not really know what to say.
Lets not only look at Diablo but also PoE which is another very popular modern game that is known for randomized maps. Infact if you go on their server and just ask the question to anyone as to what they don't like about GD then someone will mention this point as 1 of the top 5 dislikes. If randomized maps was disliked by the majority of players then clearly this feature would have been addressed in this game. After all the avg player count in PoE speaks for itself over GD and it's not because it's free to play.

Also isnt forgotten gods going to add a form of randomness to the maps with the new gamemode? It must not be detrimental.

Furthermore is there a point to having shroud when you already know where to go? I've resorted to altering the camera angle just to attempt to be somewhat disoriented with the terrain.

Last edited by Oblivionlord; 11-19-2018 at 03:30 AM.
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  #23  
Old 11-19-2018, 03:30 AM
toapeiron toapeiron is online now
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Originally Posted by Oblivionlord View Post
After all the avg player count in PoE speaks for itself over GD and it's not because it's free to play.
It is because it's a free game on top of being multiplayer-focused (and being an excellent game with constant updates, too). It's not because of randomized maps. And honestly, your "ask someone on PoE's chat what dislike about GD and they'll mention lack of randomized maps" sounds like baseless bullshit.
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  #24  
Old 11-19-2018, 03:39 AM
Oblivionlord Oblivionlord is offline
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Originally Posted by toapeiron View Post
It is because it's a free game on top of being multiplayer-focused (and being an excellent game with constant updates, too). It's not because of randomized maps. And honestly, your "ask someone on PoE's chat what dislike about GD and they'll mention lack of randomized maps" sounds like baseless bullshit.
The fact that the game is free does not make it successfull. There are tons of free games that arent successfull. GD by no means is expensive and it has a good multiplayer focus just the same. I would place GD higher than PoE for multiplayer since it has a higher fov allowing things to be more spaced out. That's just my opinion.
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  #25  
Old 11-19-2018, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Oblivionlord View Post
Lets not only look at Diablo but also PoE which is another very popular modern game that is known for randomized maps.
I am not saying that a game with randomized maps cannot be popular, I am simply saying that the randomized maps have little to do with its popularity (or lack thereof).

Quote:
Infact if you go on their server and just ask the question to anyone as to what they don't like about GD then someone will mention this point as 1 of the top 5 dislikes. If randomized maps was disliked by the majority of players then clearly this feature would have been addressed in this game.
that feels like a self -fulfilling prophecy (assuming your numbers are even accurate). If you asked the GD players what they do not like about PoE, many would say the always-online MP aspect of it.

Quote:
After all the avg player count in PoE speaks for itself over GD and it's not because it's free to play.
how do you know it is not the fact that it is f2p ? Even more, how do you know it is the random maps ? Personally I find the f2p a lot more convincing....

Quote:
Also isnt forgotten gods going to add a form of randomness to the maps with the new gamemode? It must not be detrimental.
some form, yes, I don't really care for it, Shattered Realms is the part of FG I care the least about

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Furthermore is there a point to having shroud when you already know where to go?
yes, you know that this char has not been there yet
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  #26  
Old 11-19-2018, 03:52 AM
Norzan Norzan is online now
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Shattered Realm is not gonna have random maps, but an huge pool of static maps that get picked at random everytime you enter a new map.

So no random layouts.
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  #27  
Old 11-19-2018, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblivionlord View Post
If randomized maps was disliked by the majority of players then clearly this feature would have been addressed in this game.
And that's partly the answer. The majority of GD players don't dislike the map system in the game. Also you have a lot of faith in how much the devs may react to such things. Yes, Crate listen and if they think it's a good idea they may try and implement it, but reading through the various threads eisprinzessin linked to a) completely randomised maps was never on the cards to start with so likely a design decision by Crate and b) I suspect engine limitations, time involved and funding may have played a part in not taking that route, even if they'd wanted to.
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  #28  
Old 11-19-2018, 04:54 PM
PlentyFoldsInTheGrey PlentyFoldsInTheGrey is offline
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After a certain point I didn't even notice D2 map randomization. After playing through Hell difficulty I got the map revealed and just bee-line to where I'm going. Sure, I'm on a different map with a different character but that didn't matter much. For people playing online with a fresh map every game it was probably very different but I rarely played on battle net and so its basically a non issue from my prespective.
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  #29  
Old 11-19-2018, 06:12 PM
Misanthrop Misanthrop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlentyFoldsInTheGrey View Post
After a certain point I didn't even notice D2 map randomization. After playing through Hell difficulty I got the map revealed and just bee-line to where I'm going. Sure, I'm on a different map with a different character but that didn't matter much. For people playing online with a fresh map every game it was probably very different but I rarely played on battle net and so its basically a non issue from my prespective.
So you did play with plugy or other 3rd party programs. On battlenet you had a resetted map each time you created a game. Sure, there were patterns you did know after millions of bossruns, but it was still randomized.
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  #30  
Old 11-19-2018, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Misanthrop View Post
So you did play with plugy or other 3rd party programs. On battlenet you had a resetted map each time you created a game. Sure, there were patterns you did know after millions of bossruns, but it was still randomized.
I think what he is saying is that the randomization was too little to make a noticeable difference for him, and I agree wit that. The level of randomization accomplished nothing positive for me, for that you would need maybe 3 times the level sets, 3 times to mob variant, 3 times the quests and 5 times the bosses that you would encounter in one playthrough. That way they would truly feel / be different. The random maps did not manage that at all.
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