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  #11  
Old 03-08-2018, 07:12 AM
Beoron Beoron is offline
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Originally Posted by Cuprium View Post
But what about the normal end bosses for base game and AoM - Loghorrean and Master of Flesh?
And what about Nemesis?

What differences do they have when fighting these on all difficulties?
Is one stronger than the other or are they still the same in terms of DPS and survivability?
Pets in general are tricky vs Log because their ai is wonky vs it. They can manage both though.

In my experience, Cabalists do more damage as skeletons hit really hard and the Blight Fiend is strong. I finished Ultimate with no problem and I was wearing a faction chest armor and rings. Skeletons are great because there are a lot of them. They are pretty swuishy though. So if you have a lot of flat damage bonuses they can be applied individually to each of say 8 skeletons vs 1 or 2 Briarthorns. Flat damage is generally very important for pets. My base level 1 Hellhound with less than 100 per hit damage on the tooltip hits for thousands because of the flat damage and % pet damage combination. The skeleton numbers also make them great at proccing low or no cd devotions. Put.... uh the fire demon looking devotion (sorry the name escapes me. Fiend?) on your skeletons and pet attack order them around an enemy for a good time. Blight Fiend's aura and AoE attack are really strong too. The AoE is a 1 point wonder for the cc. I am leveling an acid conversion Cabalist in addition to my first one and so far so good!

Conjurers can also do good damage but my guess is their ceiling is lower. My basic Beastcaller physical damage focused Conjurer is stomping through the end of AoM in Ultimate just fine. Conjurers do have an extra elemental resist reduction option in Raging Tempest which works well since lightning conversion is a strong option. Conjurers also have the Mogdrogen line which gives great survivability to you and your pets. My Conjurer has over 500 regen per second without building for it at all. Combined with Wendigo Totem and the general beefyness of Briarthorn (mine has 100k life), you will be resummoning far less.

I have not 100 with my Ritualist but overall losing all the crazy good Occultist support and the abundance of pets from Necro is likely not worth it. The Shaman does give one source of flat damage and a good aura from Briarthorn, but Occultist gives 3 flat damage sources, a flat OA buff, a DA debuff, etc. Not that a Ritualist is bad, my guess is you could clear AoM ultimate with little issue, and maybe the tankier skeletons from the Shaman buffs would be awesome.

So overall for damage I think the combo of lots of Necro pets with lots of Occultist buffs is probably tops for dps, but any of the three are fine for the majority of campaign content with little optimization.

That's my experience and speculation, hope it helps!
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2018, 11:27 AM
iOnlyPlayPetBuilds iOnlyPlayPetBuilds is offline
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Conjurer >

Who wants to resummon and kite..? They're so tanky and still do great damage.

Pretty sure they're better at Nemesis and Superbosses because their pets hold aggro better and shouldn't die. Tons of free physical res and other resistances without needing devotions for them.

Last edited by iOnlyPlayPetBuilds; 03-08-2018 at 11:30 AM.
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2018, 02:24 PM
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Cuprium Cuprium is offline
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Originally Posted by Beoron View Post
Pets in general are tricky vs Log because their ai is wonky vs it. They can manage both though.

In my experience, Cabalists do more damage as skeletons hit really hard and the Blight Fiend is strong. I finished Ultimate with no problem and I was wearing a faction chest armor and rings. Skeletons are great because there are a lot of them. They are pretty swuishy though. So if you have a lot of flat damage bonuses they can be applied individually to each of say 8 skeletons vs 1 or 2 Briarthorns. Flat damage is generally very important for pets. My base level 1 Hellhound with less than 100 per hit damage on the tooltip hits for thousands because of the flat damage and % pet damage combination. The skeleton numbers also make them great at proccing low or no cd devotions. Put.... uh the fire demon looking devotion (sorry the name escapes me. Fiend?) on your skeletons and pet attack order them around an enemy for a good time. Blight Fiend's aura and AoE attack are really strong too. The AoE is a 1 point wonder for the cc. I am leveling an acid conversion Cabalist in addition to my first one and so far so good!

Conjurers can also do good damage but my guess is their ceiling is lower. My basic Beastcaller physical damage focused Conjurer is stomping through the end of AoM in Ultimate just fine. Conjurers do have an extra elemental resist reduction option in Raging Tempest which works well since lightning conversion is a strong option. Conjurers also have the Mogdrogen line which gives great survivability to you and your pets. My Conjurer has over 500 regen per second without building for it at all. Combined with Wendigo Totem and the general beefyness of Briarthorn (mine has 100k life), you will be resummoning far less.

I have not 100 with my Ritualist but overall losing all the crazy good Occultist support and the abundance of pets from Necro is likely not worth it. The Shaman does give one source of flat damage and a good aura from Briarthorn, but Occultist gives 3 flat damage sources, a flat OA buff, a DA debuff, etc. Not that a Ritualist is bad, my guess is you could clear AoM ultimate with little issue, and maybe the tankier skeletons from the Shaman buffs would be awesome.

So overall for damage I think the combo of lots of Necro pets with lots of Occultist buffs is probably tops for dps, but any of the three are fine for the majority of campaign content with little optimization.

That's my experience and speculation, hope it helps!
This is really helpful. Thanks a lot.
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2018, 05:57 PM
iOnlyPlayPetBuilds iOnlyPlayPetBuilds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teron View Post
Neither... Summoner builds have no chance vs final bosses on ultimate - Mogdrogen & Ravager.

This is actually the first ARPG game I'm playing that is poorly designed - having weak summoner classes full ilvl 94 set gear.

Some classes that are able to beat Ravager ultimate and will do so in 30 minutes - I'm finding this absurd having top gear and being forced to attack boss with reduced damage and chance to hit because you need to max def (5K DA to avoid death).

I did some testing it takes 5 minutes to take down Ravager with 12K DA and 11K OA and having 112K DPS and 60K life. Even so Ravager can hit you for 15K on 2 hits, and I can tell you right now that is impossible to reach 12K Defense Ability and 11K Offense Ability without hacks.

A pity because its beautiful game but creating impossible challenges not my thing... All bosses should be able to be destroyed with all classes having top gear. And summoner should be the KING of DPS.
I remember seeing this post and the other day mordecai mike did ravager on ultimate with his conjurer. So yeah it's doable. Yeah they have a chance. Mog should be easier.
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  #15  
Old 03-20-2018, 12:00 PM
Dean1310 Dean1310 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teron View Post
Neither... Summoner builds have no chance vs final bosses on ultimate - Mogdrogen & Ravager.

This is actually the first ARPG game I'm playing that is poorly designed - having weak summoner classes full ilvl 94 set gear.

Some classes that are able to beat Ravager ultimate and will do so in 30 minutes - I'm finding this absurd having top gear and being forced to attack boss with reduced damage and chance to hit because you need to max def (5K DA to avoid death).

I did some testing it takes 5 minutes to take down Ravager with 12K DA and 11K OA and having 112K DPS and 60K life. Even so Ravager can hit you for 15K on 2 hits, and I can tell you right now that is impossible to reach 12K Defense Ability and 11K Offense Ability without hacks.

A pity because its beautiful game but creating impossible challenges not my thing... All bosses should be able to be destroyed with all classes having top gear. And summoner should be the KING of DPS.
Here is a pet build killing ravager

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZTGrQij25w

It is hard but not impossible, for what its worth I agree with you that they are overtuned and I dunno how this guy in video managed it because my pet conjurer and cabalist can barely touch modrogen or ravager solo.
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