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View Poll Results: Which difficulty level looks like more fun to play?
Standard Grim Dawn. 227 46.14%
More difficult Grimmer Grim Dawn. 175 35.57%
Neither, i would like to see something in between. 77 15.65%
Neither, they both look too hard for me. 13 2.64%
Voters: 492. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 12-10-2013, 11:57 PM
Koozwad Koozwad is offline
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Originally Posted by mamba View Post
So you are telling me your DPS is 8000 ? Or is that your critical hit ?

Builds with self found gear and not focusing on damage only have a DPS of maybe 200 when facing the Warden. Obviously you cannot have the difficulty challenging for whatever uber-build you concocted and still have regular players stand any chance whatsoever.

Your damage is an outlier, the game cannot be scaled around an extreme outlier.
No of course the DPS isn't 8000 lol but yes I've been hitting that much with crits - with mostly blues equipped though. But still they don't take long to find, and I've been playing that character maybe 24hrs or so. His DPS is around 250 but really most damage comes from item effects and of course abilities/skills. I'm actually quite new to the game still and it's a bit surprising indeed I can 2-hit or so level 28 bosses. But hey game still fresh and of course there will be lots of uber things discovered and it won't surprise me if a lot gets nerfed. Even if uber items were nerfed though I get the feeling the difficulty is on the low side, but it's Act 1 on Normal difficulty so I'm not too bothered.
  #102  
Old 12-11-2013, 12:00 AM
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In my opinion the first difficulty should be relatively farm free experience. But still require some thought toward what to equip.

The problem is that it can get too difficult for casuals but too easy for veterans who have completed it several times.

It would be nice to be able to speed through to higher difficulties, which is what they have tried to achieve to some extent with the map layout.
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  #103  
Old 12-11-2013, 08:26 AM
jrodman jrodman is offline
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A voice from someone outside the forum who hasn't played the game that much.

I think the trash mobs on Normal are about right for me. If I was playing for mastery -- I almost never do this -- I would probably want to ratchet them up a bit (selectable difficulty). The bosses, on normal, are a bit too beefy. With self-found gear the fights should take a few minutes, not longer, and required dodging should definitely not be going on for minutes as it just gets annoying. So I would prefer easier bosses on Normal, or an easier selectable difficulty.
  #104  
Old 12-11-2013, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamba View Post
So you are telling me your DPS is 8000 ? Or is that your critical hit ?

Builds with self found gear and not focusing on damage only have a DPS of maybe 200 when facing the Warden. Obviously you cannot have the difficulty challenging for whatever uber-build you concocted and still have regular players stand any chance whatsoever.

Your damage is an outlier, the game cannot be scaled around an extreme outlier.
It depends on the build. My earlier soldier and demo did 80-90damage by the time they reached the Warden. Killing him took ages due to the low dps. That was with Fire Strike which just isn't that powerful. And my points were also fairly spread out during those first few builds. Just because I wanted to see what they all did. That is probably how most people play and reach The Warden on their first few visits. And thus have a hard time with him. And they should with such a sub-par build.

Now I got builds such as DEE. That does 100-200damage with another 500 DoT. Or the Blademaster with Cadence, not even fully invested in, hits a steady 250 on its second Cadence. And due to the often crits of 1.5-2 he does 450-600 on regular base at lvl16 and still has to go through the Wardens Underground facilities. As for a demo with Grenado you can put entire rooms to sleep in 1 hit and The Warden in 5 due to its massive damage.

These builds are pretty much the normal ones. Really everyone who has played these games in the past should know by now NOT to spread their skills too thin. And those new should learn it fast or they'll get stuck further in the game. So better they get stick at The Warden then two acts later and get frustrated and whine. So in hindsight I've come to a more logical, then emotional, conclusion that the difficult is ok.

On top of that you have the close to perfect builds which we end up with in due time. Dealing excessive damage. Those shouldn't be taken into account for balancing on normal difficulty. Just like the first and earlier builds shouldn't. Make those weaker builds, see they don't work, learn and re-start.
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  #105  
Old 12-12-2013, 06:00 AM
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Standard looks just a tad too easy. Though realistically what creature would withstand more than two or three mace hits with elemental damage?

imo the game difficulty in the previous builds were fine for a normal mode difficulty.

Grimmer is way too slow; probably reach the warden in double or triple the time at the rate the video started.

Last edited by Confuted; 12-12-2013 at 06:03 AM.
  #106  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:19 AM
Srikandi Srikandi is offline
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I think standard is about right for Act I Normal.

Somebody said "if you don't want it harder, then ARPGs are not for you", but IMO GD normal is harder than other modern ARPGs on normal mode. Diablo 3 and Torchlight 2 are both walks in the park at the outset (to the point of being tedious), and PoE is a tad tougher than those (especially bosses) but not by that much. So, if you're going by the expectations of the ARPG playing community, I'd say Crate hit the sweet spot: more challenging than average but not punishingly so.

BTW, it's true that you can beat practically anything with little or no risk of death by kiting and healing; but in the other games I mentioned, you don't HAVE to kite. To me that means GD is harder than them, not easier.

I do like the side areas with much tougher mobs, so more advanced (or well twinked) players who want the challenge can find it.

One thing Crate does need to consider though: any player is only new once, and with a shared stash, practically everybody is a twinker. GD may be at a good difficulty now for new players, but on the second or third or fifth alt with a new build, the same content on normal will be easier. Will there be a mechanism to tune the game a lil harder on the first ("Normal") runthrough, like D3 finally added with the monster power slider? That to me would be welcome. Of course, that can also be achieved with mods if Crate doesn't get to it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Confuted View Post
Standard looks just a tad too easy. Though realistically what creature would withstand more than two or three mace hits with elemental damage?
Realistically, how many maces have elemental damage? And how many of us use them to fight zombie mutants?

Last edited by Srikandi; 12-12-2013 at 08:22 AM.
  #107  
Old 12-12-2013, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srikandi View Post
I think standard is about right for Act I Normal.
this ! and with a lvl 25 char and hours of farming, of course the game become easier. but things gonna change in veteran and elite. if Act1 normal became too difficult, the difficulty curve will be very hard to balance imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Srikandi View Post
BTW, it's true that you can beat practically anything with little or no risk of death by kiting and healing; but in the other games I mentioned, you don't HAVE to kite. To me that means GD is harder than them, not easier.
health regen needs tweaking, most of the players agree here i think
  #108  
Old 12-12-2013, 07:26 PM
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sunandsteel71 sunandsteel71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srikandi View Post
I think standard is about right for Act I Normal.

Somebody said "if you don't want it harder, then ARPGs are not for you", but IMO GD normal is harder than other modern ARPGs on normal mode. Diablo 3 and Torchlight 2 are both walks in the park at the outset (to the point of being tedious), and PoE is a tad tougher than those (especially bosses) but not by that much. So, if you're going by the expectations of the ARPG playing community, I'd say Crate hit the sweet spot: more challenging than average but not punishingly so.

BTW, it's true that you can beat practically anything with little or no risk of death by kiting and healing; but in the other games I mentioned, you don't HAVE to kite. To me that means GD is harder than them, not easier.

I do like the side areas with much tougher mobs, so more advanced (or well twinked) players who want the challenge can find it.

One thing Crate does need to consider though: any player is only new once, and with a shared stash, practically everybody is a twinker. GD may be at a good difficulty now for new players, but on the second or third or fifth alt with a new build, the same content on normal will be easier. Will there be a mechanism to tune the game a lil harder on the first ("Normal") runthrough, like D3 finally added with the monster power slider? That to me would be welcome. Of course, that can also be achieved with mods if Crate doesn't get to it



Realistically, how many maces have elemental damage? And how many of us use them to fight zombie mutants?
well i dont know about you but i have zombie mutants living next door and across the road and i find my lightening mace very handy when they start making too much noise in the middle of the night......doesn't everyone have this problem?
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  #109  
Old 12-13-2013, 04:06 AM
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I prefer standard GRIM DAWN difficulty. It seems to be the perfect balance of tough gameplay with excellent rewards in loot and just the right amount of experience given after battles. Anything harder might push things over into the frustration zone.

Like Srikandi mentioned for the first chapter this is great and am always going off road for the challenge which makes areas like caves much more spookier though the roads are plenty lethal as it is.

Last edited by Hellbishop; 12-13-2013 at 04:12 AM.
  #110  
Old 12-13-2013, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunandsteel71 View Post
well i dont know about you but i have zombie mutants living next door and across the road and i find my lightening mace very handy when they start making too much noise in the middle of the night......doesn't everyone have this problem?
Yea I had this problem but VOLTRON defender of the universe came to the rescue
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