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Old 06-08-2018, 11:31 PM
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Evil_Baka Evil_Baka is offline
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Default [1.0.6.1] [Witchblade] Menhir's Templar


Spoiler!


Stats shown are with passives, Blood of Dreeg and Deadly Momentum active

Spoiler!


Stats shown are with passives, Blood of Dreeg and Deadly Momentum, Overguard and Battle Cry (M. Chausses of Barbaros) active

Grimtools
Ideal setup

Ideal in the sense that this is what I was aiming for.

Current setup

What I am currently using in the screenshots above.

Gearing is pretty flexible (see gear section below) - you do not need an Incorruptible Cronley Signet or a good Badge of Mastery. My previous Cronley Signet was a randomly found Mighty of Protection (% Physique/+DA) and I have made all the same kills below with both rings.

Introduction

You can skip this if you want.

Spoiler!


Build Concept

Disclaimer
Spoiler!


"Counter-hits" as they will be referred to are % chance when hit procs. They are essentially retaliatory procs in that when you get hit by any attack be it melee or ranged that they have a chance of proccing and dealing damage. Generally, they deal conventional damage so to get the most out of them, you must stack % damage bonuses as normal instead of % retaliation bonuses.

This build uses several of them to passively deal damage. Does this mean the build is an AFK and kill build? Close but no . You still have a few debuffs to cast and maintain and your most consistent form of damage/ADCtH is not a Counter-Hit.

It is also worth pointing out now that this build is not a fast killer or a hard hitter, however you won't be stood around for minutes at a time either, it is somewhere in the middle.

Fevered Rage

Fevered Rage is an extremely potent debuff. The main uses are it's -25% DA that even with our underaverage OA allows us to get crits at a decent rate but also the 150% total speed buff which means enemies will attack us at a faster rate, thus more chances for our Counter-Hits to trigger (though this is a double-edged sword and also puts us at more of a risk).

This comes at the price of increasing enemy OA by 25%, though Wasting helps to counteract this by also lowering it by 180. This is why our DA is as high as it is, it should be sufficient to cope with most Fevered Bosses (such as Shar'Zul), Nemeses and most DA reductions (with the potential to stack up to ~3500 if more is needed). The other downside is a 40% total damage buff to our enemies meaning we will take significantly more damage. A powerful tool but not one to be used recklessly.

Retaliation vs Counter-Hits

Both Retaliation and Counter-Hit are in a similar vein of "get hit->deal damage" but they have their differences. I'll try and go over everything I know about both here and how they differ with my opinions as well.

Spoiler!


Counter-Hits

You have 7 Counter-Hit abilities, some are more important than others but I'll briefly go over them here with their converted damage values and just focusing on Physical/Trauma as that's what gets scaled the most.

Spoiler!


Abilities

Cadence (Assassin's Mark) - Provides a consistent amount of damage to supplement your Counter-Hits, Cadence procs are your biggest source of ADCtH.
War Cry - Provides physical resist reduction and % reduced target's damage.
Blitz - Used for engaging enemies.
Overguard - Used for increasing your shield capabilities. Also increases your % Physical/Internal Trauma as a temporary DPS boost.
Curse of Frailty - Provides physical resist reduction.
Blood of Dreeg - Provides an on-demand heal, OA, Physical and Acid/Poison Resistance.

Counter Strike (Fist of Vire) - One of your supplemental sources of damage.
Field Command (Targo's Hammer) - Provides OA/DA and % Armour.
Menhir's Bulwark (Spear of the Heavens) - Provides flat Physical damage, % damage absorption and some other nice bonuses.

Might of Beronath (Ghoulish Hunger) - Elemental to Physical conversion that empowers/enables some of your Counter-Hits.
Presence of Might - Nice amount of resistances and Aether to Physical conversion that empowers Spear of the Heaven.

Resist Reduction

War Cry - Provides 30 reduced Physical resistance through Break Morale.
Cadence - Provides -32% Physical resistance through Assassin's Mark.
Curse of Frailty - Provides -25% Physical resistance.
M. Ring of the Black Matriarch - Provides -10% Physical resistance on it's proc.

In total, this leaves us at -97% Physical resistance. Just about every source can be applied reliably as well (Assassin's Mark varies but is easily applied on Fevered enemies).

Gear
  • Badge of Mastery with +3 to Counter Strike is not necessary. If you can't get a hold of one, Mythical Markovian's Stratagem or Mythical Mark of the Dreadblade can work as substitutes but keep in mind that you will have to invest more into Cunning to compensate for the missing -15% to weapon requirements and may have to shift resistances accordingly.
  • Beronath, Reforged or the Mythical version is not required while levelling but it especially helps Avenger and Spear of the Heavens and enables Storm Titan. In short, it is a big DPS boost late game.
  • My grimtools above included my relic completion bonus which was base 25% Bleeding resistance (I got unlucky and actually got 19%). You do not need this exactly, depending on what you get means you will have to tweak my setup, I.e. if you got Chaos resistance, swap out one of the Black Tallows for a Bloodied Crystal, if you got % DA, you don't need a Shield with an of Protection suffix or can swap out one of the Ravager's Eye augments.
  • You can use any prefix/suffix on your Cronley ring. Or you can go for other rings like Gollus but you will lose a significant amount of your Pierce overcap unless you use one with an affix that covers this.

Attributes

Enough in Cunning and Spirit to equip our sword and rings/amulet. The rest goes in Physique.

Devotion

Optionally, you can drop Solemn Watcher for Ulo if you want the debuff removal (and I have considered this many times). The DA can be made up through a Stalwart Cronley ring.

Other options for T3 celestial powers are:
  • Healing Rain. This solves this build's low energy problem (if that bothers you) and adds more survivability.
  • Light of Empyrion. Converting the Fire on it to Physical, it becomes a strong proc. Several endgame threats fall underneath Undead/Chthonic aswell like Shar'Zul, Alkamos, Moosilauke, Reaper, Zantarin, Benn'Jahr and Grava'Thul.

Playstyle

Always keep Blood of Dreeg active. For encounters, Blitz in, apply Curse of Frailty/War Cry, Pox if you can manage it and Cadence away while maintaining your debuffs. Use Overguard on cooldown to maximise DPS (due to the % damage buffs it provides) and try and Pox while Overguard is active.

Ghoulish Hunger is a nice cushion if you get bursted/overwhelmed but keep in mind that backing out of a fight and saving it is also an option.

Kills

Spoiler!


Final Thoughts

Someone on the forums once said that when you attempt weird or gimmicky builds that you should lower your expectations of how well it will do. While I agree, I'm surprised at how well it holds up, it is by no means a top-tier build or even close (a Cadence-focused Juggernaut would be be leagues better for instance) but it is fun to play in the same vein as Retaliation how things will run up to you and die without you having to lift a finger.

There is one thing I am torn on with this build though and that is Markovian's set.

I have gone back and forth on this build with not using Markovian's set at all, 4-piecing it (which is what I settled on) and using the full set. The reason being is that the set lacks any skill bonuses or skill modifiers to Counter Strike which considering it's nature (a tanky Soldier whose defense is just as strong as, if not stronger than their offence) seems odd. Yet, we have 3 skill bonuses to Menhir's Bulwark (on the Amulet, Shoulderguards and Chestguard) and have 2 different skill modifiers to Markovian's Advantage - I personally would like to see one of the aforementioned bonuses to Menhir's Bulwark and the skill modifier on the Helmet change in favour of supporting Counter Strike.

Saying this as well, I really want to use the full set for this build. The granted skill isn't the main/only reason (going off of DaShiv's chart, it would only effect Spear, Vire and Ghoul) but because the 5-piece bonus + the Shield's adds a boatload of flat Physical Damage and Health.

If I have got any information wrong or there is anything you want to add/want me to change, please send me a PM and I will correct it as soon as I can.

Last edited by Evil_Baka; 06-09-2018 at 01:00 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-09-2018, 12:30 AM
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Weyu Weyu is offline
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With defenses like that you should be able to do 170 no problem.
I like that Relic, always wanted to make a build around it with both damage types converted to a single one. It basically does Doom Bolt levels of damage on a low CD and has good AoE.

Good to see builds that don't use several double rare MIs too, those are always welcome.
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  #3  
Old 06-09-2018, 05:53 AM
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Chthon Chthon is offline
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An Evil_Baka build after a long while. Kudos for creativity, it seems Double Blitzer isn't the only thing Markovian is good for
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:01 AM
Troll from behind Troll from behind is offline
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Nice!
Did plan on doing something with Fevered Rage, but now I don't have to theorycraft.
Kinda wondering if there's a way to make this work with Dawnbreaker...
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:55 AM
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Evil_Baka Evil_Baka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weyu View Post
With defenses like that you should be able to do 170 no problem.
I like that Relic, always wanted to make a build around it with both damage types converted to a single one. It basically does Doom Bolt levels of damage on a low CD and has good AoE.

Good to see builds that don't use several double rare MIs too, those are always welcome.
Thanks for the information on Crucible, I might give it a try then and see how it goes.

Avenger is by far one of my favourite relics that I've used, it's strong defensively and offensively. I haven't tried Vengeance but I hope it's just as good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post
An Evil_Baka build after a long while. Kudos for creativity, it seems Double Blitzer isn't the only thing Markovian is good for
I have more time for playing and testing concepts since it's summer now . I think someone updated Fluff's Bleed Markovian as well somewhere so that should still work, Blood Knight and Bloodrager will still get better ticks though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll from behind View Post
Nice!
Did plan on doing something with Fevered Rage, but now I don't have to theorycraft.
Kinda wondering if there's a way to make this work with Dawnbreaker...
Should still work yes. Infact, TZ Tz did a Lightning hybrid Retaliation Vindicator some time ago mixing the Dawnbreaker and Dawnshield pieces together. It might give you some ideas of your own.
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Old 06-09-2018, 12:44 PM
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x1x1x1x2 x1x1x1x2 is offline
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Tried something like this once but was pure phys CS with BK helm and warborn for max break morale. Was able to do cruci but was slow for my tastes. This should be good if you don't care about speed (which you probably don't cause you're not a cruci main). I've always been looking for a counter hit build that's not retaliation. And this has filled the slot for me.
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