#331  
Old 03-19-2019, 02:30 PM
Ski Ski is offline
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Originally Posted by ibugsy View Post
This has not changed with the patch.
Thanks - I'll move along.
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  #332  
Old 03-19-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ski View Post
I stopped playing GD a while ago (not long after AoM) because everything ends up fighting in melee range.

Other arpgs have ways to keep enemies at distance, such as summons, mobility or just raw power in glass cannon builds but in GD the devs don't put in the effort to tune the game to make that possible.

I've had this discussion a couple of times here and I get an fairly dismissive response telling me how I just don't understand game design. Sorry, but I do know enough to know what I like and I certainly know it's possible because other games have done it very successfully.

The idea that you're always toe-to-toe with the enemy, either hitting them with a stick or a spell just doesn't create enough variation in the game.

And for people who like the skill of ranged/caster play GD doesn't really cut the mustard.

I hope someone will respond and say 'Ah but they changed that in patch x.y.z' but I'm not holding out much hope. I expect another lecture on game design (with which I will disagree and move on quietly).
Well, without knowing which builds you seem to have trouble with ranged ....

There are plenty of ranged builds in the compendium.

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79419

As for changing it in a patch, if the game design is that skewed my guess is it would need much more than a patch.
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  #333  
Old 03-19-2019, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by medea fleecestealer View Post
Well, without knowing which builds you seem to have trouble with ranged ....


As for changing it in a patch, if the game design is that skewed my guess is it would need much more than a patch.
Well it is a an issue/a thing that I've noticed and can find annoying, but it's not a game killer for me. I've also note that this happens in many other ARPG games. There are ways to mitigate it in GD, which I do and others have done.

However, it didn't seem like they were amenable to such suggestions.

I could be wrong.
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  #334  
Old 03-19-2019, 02:37 PM
Salazar Salazar is offline
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Originally Posted by medea fleecestealer View Post
Well, without knowing which builds you seem to have trouble with ranged ....

There are plenty of ranged builds in the compendium.

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79419

As for changing it in a patch, if the game design is that skewed my guess is it would need much more than a patch.
I think his issue is that in GD any enemies that don't die instantly end up at point blank range, unlike say Diablo 2 where your summons could tank for you or you could get items that added knockback to your attacks. It's something that I kind of struggled with when I first started GD as well.
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  #335  
Old 03-19-2019, 02:39 PM
Maya Maya is offline
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Originally Posted by Ski View Post
I stopped playing GD a while ago (not long after AoM) because everything ends up fighting in melee range.

Other arpgs have ways to keep enemies at distance, such as summons, mobility or just raw power in glass cannon builds but in GD the devs don't put in the effort to tune the game to make that possible.

I've had this discussion a couple of times here and I get an fairly dismissive response telling me how I just don't understand game design. Sorry, but I do know enough to know what I like and I certainly know it's possible because other games have done it very successfully.

The idea that you're always toe-to-toe with the enemy, either hitting them with a stick or a spell just doesn't create enough variation in the game.

And for people who like the skill of ranged/caster play GD doesn't really cut the mustard.

I hope someone will respond and say 'Ah but they changed that in patch x.y.z' but I'm not holding out much hope. I expect another lecture on game design (with which I will disagree and move on quietly).
You could technically do it with pets if you can find a chokepoint, but other than that you are probably not going to find what you are looking for.
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  #336  
Old 03-19-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Salazar View Post
I think his issue is that in GD any enemies that don't die instantly end up at point blank range, unlike say Diablo 2 where your summons could tank for you or you could get items that added knockback to your attacks. It's something that I kind of struggled with when I first started GD as well.
Yup, moving / side-stepping often resolves these issues. Personally, I like this because its more engaging, but sometimes I find it annoying.
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  #337  
Old 03-19-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Salazar View Post
I think his issue is that in GD any enemies that don't die instantly end up at point blank range, unlike say Diablo 2 where your summons could tank for you or you could get items that added knockback to your attacks. It's something that I kind of struggled with when I first started GD as well.
Yes, they can, but you can always kite. Standard practice for a caster/ranged in some cases I'd say. But Callidor's Tempest does knockback doesn't it or similar. And Judgment in the new Oathkeeper mastery definitely does. And of course FG is also bringing movement skills.
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  #338  
Old 03-19-2019, 03:17 PM
Salazar Salazar is offline
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Originally Posted by ibugsy View Post
Yup, moving / side-stepping often resolves these issues. Personally, I like this because its more engaging, but sometimes I find it annoying.
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Originally Posted by medea fleecestealer View Post
Yes, they can, but you can always kite. Standard practice for a caster/ranged in some cases I'd say. But Callidor's Tempest does knockback doesn't it or similar. And Judgment in the new Oathkeeper mastery definitely does. And of course FG is also bringing movement skills.
I'm not complaining, generally combat in GD is pretty fun. I'm just saying it can take some getting used to. In D2 I had a glass cannon bowazon with maxed valkyrie and decoy that would distract all the monsters and if something went wrong, she could outrun the monsters easily. GD just doesn't work like that. And frankly, kiting without a good source of DOT is an exercise in frustration. Like I said, not complaining, it just takes some getting used to.

Also, doesn't Judgement have reverse knockback that pulls enemies in?
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  #339  
Old 03-19-2019, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ski View Post
I stopped playing GD a while ago (not long after AoM) because everything ends up fighting in melee range.

Other arpgs have ways to keep enemies at distance, such as summons, mobility or just raw power in glass cannon builds but in GD the devs don't put in the effort to tune the game to make that possible.

I've had this discussion a couple of times here and I get an fairly dismissive response telling me how I just don't understand game design. Sorry, but I do know enough to know what I like and I certainly know it's possible because other games have done it very successfully.

The idea that you're always toe-to-toe with the enemy, either hitting them with a stick or a spell just doesn't create enough variation in the game.

And for people who like the skill of ranged/caster play GD doesn't really cut the mustard.

I hope someone will respond and say 'Ah but they changed that in patch x.y.z' but I'm not holding out much hope. I expect another lecture on game design (with which I will disagree and move on quietly).
I sometimes get that same feeling with most end-game ranged builds. The goal is always to be able to facetank everything. That is a reason why I very seldom play ranged builds at all in GD
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  #340  
Old Yesterday, 04:04 AM
WorstShamanEver WorstShamanEver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski View Post
I stopped playing GD a while ago (not long after AoM) because everything ends up fighting in melee range.

Other arpgs have ways to keep enemies at distance, such as summons, mobility or just raw power in glass cannon builds but in GD the devs don't put in the effort to tune the game to make that possible.

I've had this discussion a couple of times here and I get an fairly dismissive response telling me how I just don't understand game design. Sorry, but I do know enough to know what I like and I certainly know it's possible because other games have done it very successfully.

The idea that you're always toe-to-toe with the enemy, either hitting them with a stick or a spell just doesn't create enough variation in the game.

And for people who like the skill of ranged/caster play GD doesn't really cut the mustard.

I hope someone will respond and say 'Ah but they changed that in patch x.y.z' but I'm not holding out much hope. I expect another lecture on game design (with which I will disagree and move on quietly).
I'm with you, mostly. I don't like how some enemies charge you and in a lot of cases there's basically no way to CC them or keep them at a distance so you can survive. If you don't have enough physical resistance or DA (usually) you just die in 2 hits. I guess it depends which class you play (I hate playing demolition, pre-75 I have difficulty in melee for the above reason)

A friend of mine made this distinction the other day, he said that Elite difficulty is the harder than Ultimate because even though you're 3/4 through leveling you're still not high enough to wear the really good gear, you have to use a mixed bag of greens and blues and random level 60/70 legendaries. Hoping that you can pump up your resists and DA enough for the hardest bosses. There are many possible ranged builds for this game, but they don't get strong until the last 20 levels, and sometimes being forced to fight from melee range just sucks.
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