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  #11  
Old 07-07-2018, 12:19 PM
thepowerofmediocrity thepowerofmediocrity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iOnlyPlayPetBuilds View Post
I'm trying to understand some of this. But it's hard. Please continue to work with me here. You are amazing.


If I wanted the "BEST OVERALL" Conjurer setup (PETS NOT A HYBRID) would it be lightning or physical? Which?


FOR LIGHTNING PETS:

You said my build with Ravagers Eyes instead of Coven's Wit is as optimal as it gets if I wanted to use Primal Instinct?

If I went to Mogdrogen's Ardor instead you said I should swap to Bat Jackal and Wolverine instead of Fiend + Solael and owl?

How optimal or good is this versus Primal Instinct with Fiend + Solael?

You're saying the skill setup akdong chose is still good and not outdated? I thought more points into pets were better now due to some changes in the past few patches. I haven't played since January so i'm not sure. You suggested taking some points out of Emboldening Presence or Manipulation and putting them into Aspect of the Guardian? Is that all I should change?


FOR PHYSICAL PETS:

Which should I follow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1-fCBat0XI or http://grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74444 ? They are 2 different builds.


Thank you for taking the time to help me optimize akdongs build as it truly is my favorite. Please respond.
Don't mind my lateness in responding- I'm not around these forums too much nowadays to make these sorts of replies.

Ravager's Eye is the best weapon augment for all pet builds. Having %DA and pet %OA is far more important than Coven's Wit.

If you're playing Swarmlings, then you definitely want to emphasize pet Speed and Fire/Chaos RR for your build as Swarmlings have a very nice base 200 Fire damage. You definitely want to have at least 10/12 Aspect of the Guardian if not 12/12 because your pets definitely want to cap Poison and Acid Resistance or else they'll have a lot of trouble with the Acid Rain coming out of the plants.

Example Grimtools

However, the problem with this is that the skill points are too spread out among too many skills and you don't have nearly enough points to cover everything you want (mainly putting more points in Wendigo Totem and Summon Briarthorn). As Primal Spirit and Swarmlings are putting in most of the work, however, you can afford to let that go. If you want to stay with Akdong's pet build, the above Grimtools is the way to go (and hunt for a nice pair of Bysmiel pants while you're at it).

I haven't thoroughly tested to see which is better between Lightning Pets and Physical Pets. I am partial to Physical Pets because it hits a resistance type that most enemies in the game don't have a large amount, and skill points are much more optimally spread there. If you want to follow a Physical Pets Conjurer guide, go with Sigatrev's guide (the second link in your question).
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NOTE: All builds that I post are directly created with GDStash (all valid prefix/suffix combos) for the purpose of testing and demonstrating what is possible. I used to have a legit character used for trading before the expansion, but I have not used him since AoM was released.

Open to any PMs from those interested in playing pet builds.

Currently playing: Grimarillion (first legit, then TAS)
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  #12  
Old 07-07-2018, 08:01 PM
iOnlyPlayPetBuilds iOnlyPlayPetBuilds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepowerofmediocrity View Post
Don't mind my lateness in responding- I'm not around these forums too much nowadays to make these sorts of replies.

Ravager's Eye is the best weapon augment for all pet builds. Having %DA and pet %OA is far more important than Coven's Wit.

If you're playing Swarmlings, then you definitely want to emphasize pet Speed and Fire/Chaos RR for your build as Swarmlings have a very nice base 200 Fire damage. You definitely want to have at least 10/12 Aspect of the Guardian if not 12/12 because your pets definitely want to cap Poison and Acid Resistance or else they'll have a lot of trouble with the Acid Rain coming out of the plants.

Example Grimtools

However, the problem with this is that the skill points are too spread out among too many skills and you don't have nearly enough points to cover everything you want (mainly putting more points in Wendigo Totem and Summon Briarthorn). As Primal Spirit and Swarmlings are putting in most of the work, however, you can afford to let that go. If you want to stay with Akdong's pet build, the above Grimtools is the way to go (and hunt for a nice pair of Bysmiel pants while you're at it).

I haven't thoroughly tested to see which is better between Lightning Pets and Physical Pets. I am partial to Physical Pets because it hits a resistance type that most enemies in the game don't have a large amount, and skill points are much more optimally spread there. If you want to follow a Physical Pets Conjurer guide, go with Sigatrev's guide (the second link in your question).
Thanks for all the help! I would like to save this grimtool link if you wouldn't mind.



Also what about completely removing wind devil and applying those points else where? It's only useful for bosses with its slow speed right? I also don't like wendigo totem. When I played I never used either of these and was able to beat all nemesis and didn't die. It's more skills I don't want to manage/use honestly. If I were to take them away I should add them to Briarthorn? That frees up 10 points and makes Briarthorn 15/16 assuming I should put all 10 of those points into it.



Is it bad to over cap things like manipulation or mogdrogen pact tree?? They can go higher all 4 of those skills.



Also with those 10 points I could make raven shoot 2 projectiles with 7 points left or 3 projectiles with 1 point left. Unless you just recommend putting into Briarthorn instead. With the 10 points should I just make him 15/16 and use all 10 on him? I'm not good at theorycrafting.
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  #13  
Old 07-07-2018, 11:31 PM
sigatrev sigatrev is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iOnlyPlayPetBuilds View Post
Also what about completely removing wind devil and applying those points else where? It's only useful for bosses with its slow speed right? I also don't like wendigo totem. When I played I never used either of these and was able to beat all nemesis and didn't die. It's more skills I don't want to manage/use honestly. If I were to take them away I should add them to Briarthorn? That frees up 10 points and makes Briarthorn 15/16 assuming I should put all 10 of those points into it.
If you're not using lightning pets, definitely do not use Wind Devil. If you are, it's mainly useful for Raging Tempest's resistance reduction. Curse of Frailty is overall more important I think, as it is more controllable and can trigger celestial powers for you, but you definitely want as much resistance reduction as you can get.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iOnlyPlayPetBuilds View Post
Is it bad to over cap things like manipulation or mogdrogen pact tree?? They can go higher all 4 of those skills.
Below the cap, Manipulation gives 5% damage and 2% total speed per point. Above the cap it's 7% damage and 1% total speed. As the total speed is generally the more important aspect, it tends not to be worth over capping.

Mogdrogen's Pack scales well into ultimate ranks with the damage bonus. It is worth over capping in my opinion.

Heart of the Wild gives 3% health per point until the cap and 1% per point after, it is generally not worth over capping unless you have a serious excess of skill points.

Oak Skin provides less bonus health regen into the ultimate ranks, but still provides the same armor and pierce resistance. If you're using it for the resistance (I do) then over capping it is fine if you have the points and need to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iOnlyPlayPetBuilds View Post
Also with those 10 points I could make raven shoot 2 projectiles with 7 points left or 3 projectiles with 1 point left. Unless you just recommend putting into Briarthorn instead. With the 10 points should I just make him 15/16 and use all 10 on him? I'm not good at theorycrafting.
The raven from Summon Familiar is worth investing in only if you plan to have it at 26/16 and use Mythical Will of Bysmiel. In all other cases, you should probably not put more than a single point into the main skill.
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  #14  
Old 07-07-2018, 11:58 PM
iOnlyPlayPetBuilds iOnlyPlayPetBuilds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigatrev View Post
If you're not using lightning pets, definitely do not use Wind Devil. If you are, it's mainly useful for Raging Tempest's resistance reduction. Curse of Frailty is overall more important I think, as it is more controllable and can trigger celestial powers for you, but you definitely want as much resistance reduction as you can get.



Below the cap, Manipulation gives 5% damage and 2% total speed per point. Above the cap it's 7% damage and 1% total speed. As the total speed is generally the more important aspect, it tends not to be worth over capping.

Mogdrogen's Pack scales well into ultimate ranks with the damage bonus. It is worth over capping in my opinion.

Heart of the Wild gives 3% health per point until the cap and 1% per point after, it is generally not worth over capping unless you have a serious excess of skill points.

Oak Skin provides less bonus health regen into the ultimate ranks, but still provides the same armor and pierce resistance. If you're using it for the resistance (I do) then over capping it is fine if you have the points and need to.


The raven from Summon Familiar is worth investing in only if you plan to have it at 26/16 and use Mythical Will of Bysmiel. In all other cases, you should probably not put more than a single point into the main skill.
Thanks for the detailed info. Where should I put the 10 points in that grimtool link he posted on the 2nd page of this thread? 10 points from removing wind devil and totem.

1 guy said briar and you said some points into cof or mogdrogen tree would be good.

Last edited by iOnlyPlayPetBuilds; 07-08-2018 at 12:52 AM.
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  #15  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:53 PM
iOnlyPlayPetBuilds iOnlyPlayPetBuilds is offline
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didnt get a response
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  #16  
Old 07-13-2018, 10:30 AM
thepowerofmediocrity thepowerofmediocrity is offline
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Your initial response didn't make much sense - if you don't like using Wind Devil nor Wendigo Totem, then I would go with the Physical Pets from the Youtube link I sent you. I can't say I know for sure why the build creator put Raven at 17/16 for this build, but it provides you everything that you need.

I know you like the Yeti a lot, so I switched a few things to give you everything you liked while keeping out what you don't like

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/eZPLXXGZ

Lightning Pets may have more damage potential, but it is a lot more restrictive in what equipment you're able to wear. Physical pets gives you a lot more lee-way in what to choose for equipment.
__________________
NOTE: All builds that I post are directly created with GDStash (all valid prefix/suffix combos) for the purpose of testing and demonstrating what is possible. I used to have a legit character used for trading before the expansion, but I have not used him since AoM was released.

Open to any PMs from those interested in playing pet builds.

Currently playing: Grimarillion (first legit, then TAS)
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  #17  
Old 07-17-2018, 01:26 AM
iOnlyPlayPetBuilds iOnlyPlayPetBuilds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepowerofmediocrity View Post
Your initial response didn't make much sense - if you don't like using Wind Devil nor Wendigo Totem, then I would go with the Physical Pets from the Youtube link I sent you. I can't say I know for sure why the build creator put Raven at 17/16 for this build, but it provides you everything that you need.

I know you like the Yeti a lot, so I switched a few things to give you everything you liked while keeping out what you don't like

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/eZPLXXGZ

Lightning Pets may have more damage potential, but it is a lot more restrictive in what equipment you're able to wear. Physical pets gives you a lot more lee-way in what to choose for equipment.
That grimtools link. It's what your physical conjurer would look like if you made a physical build?


The other build had devotion that taunts targets for pets. How strong is that exactly? Even more easy mode than conjurer already is? If its super strong I may want it.

Managing time dilation may not be for me.
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  #18  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:22 AM
thepowerofmediocrity thepowerofmediocrity is offline
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I personally opt for a lot more defensive build at the cost of build efficiency - so while I personally wouldn't play this build, it is much more efficient in killing super-mobs like Ravager than my builds would be.

Time Dilation is not super-difficult to manage. First you use the skills Primal Spirit, bring forth the Harbringer, and Blood of Dreeg, then you use Doom Bolt. Their main purpose is to have the Primal Spirit and Harbringer pet up almost all of the time so they can inflict enough damage to warrant not having to use Primal Instinct (your DA would be too low if you tried using it).

Sigatrev's Conjurer uses Ishtak (the one that taunts targets), and it is a really good devotion, but it also uses Time Dilation as it has really bad uptime without it, so you're likely going to use Time Dilation regardless. Keep in mind that it also uses Wendigo Totem, a skill you said you didn't like using.
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  #19  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:57 PM
sigatrev sigatrev is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepowerofmediocrity View Post
Sigatrev's Conjurer uses Ishtak (the one that taunts targets), and it is a really good devotion, but it also uses Time Dilation as it has really bad uptime without it, so you're likely going to use Time Dilation regardless. Keep in mind that it also uses Wendigo Totem, a skill you said you didn't like using.
My build does not use Time Dilation. The uptime of Ishtak doesn't needed to be high. It is important in the crucible on waves with multiple nemesis (reaper in particular), so much so that it results in an overall clear speed improvement over using an offensive devotion just from waves 160, 165, and 170, but all you need is for it to trigger once on them and you're good for the most part. At a 15 second cooldown it triggers often enough. If your pets have to chase enemies because they are chasing you, their DPS is dramatically reduced.

Wendigo totem I do use though, it's important to allow you to tank with or without Ishtak. Either way, outside of the crucible neither are needed.

I use Ishtak on a lot of pet builds, and never with time Dilation.
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