On "Farming"

[myrmidon]

I think you guys should keep it the same. i like to farm it keeps you entertained after you beat the game alot

[Josho]

First post, and with it, my thoughts on item farming.

Basically, why not create an area similar to the secret cow level of Diablo II. Hand crafted, or random level, it probably won't matter. It should be a nice large area separate from the main game designed specifically to try and find items. Hordes of minions, with a higher rate than normal of the "boss style" monsters, probably broken into areas.

I agree that item farming should be removed from the idea of game progression, which is where one condition becomes attached. By going to the "item farm," experience is not gained, so the character can only progress their equipment, not their character.

But then, what about boss runs in the normal game where good equipment can drop, and large amounts of experience can be gained? Well, if Grim Dawn follows in the Titan Quest way of having the nearest waypoints being a rebirth fountain or three away from the boss (still some fairly significant ground to cover) then that alone was enough for me to dread doing boss runs.

Basically, this idea should be a way to reward the player by getting a decent number of good item drops in a shorter period of time, at the sacrifice of no experience gained. Hopefully, a simple system also.

[Aesir Rising]

Originally Posted by medierra

What are your thoughts?

I like the idea in the top post, linking rewards to XP gains, and dwindling as you progress.

Not that I hate the idea of other people farming - but I don't want the game to be balanced based on the developers' assumption that people are going to grind gear. Because the de facto result, even if not fully-intended, is that *everyone* needs to gind gear to keep up with the Joneses (even in the single player game where I'd likely spend most of my play time).

Incidentally, I had a chance to see in action an implementation of the core idea in the top post during my years playing a custom Neverwinter Nights persistent (multiplayer) world. There, a custom XP and loot table reduced the rewards earned in both loot and XP from grinding MOBs based on the total number of kills your character had against a given MOB (and the character or party level compared to the monster level). After a relatively short time, if you kept grinding a given spawn area and MOB type, you ended up blowing play time earning just 1 XP a kill and getting little (or zero) loot. This nudged you towards newer and greater challenges as your character progressed. It worked well there.

Whatever you end up doing, please remember some of us prefer questing and exploring new areas over grinding the phat lewtz. Though there is something to be said for picking up new shiny drops as well.

[inebriatedcaribou]

I am all for keeping farming the way it is and has been. I really like TQ and how if you didn't have the nearest rebirth fountain getting to a boss like Typhon took some effort and, for me at least, running through that mountain to the Telkine was more fun than the run from the Olympus fountain to Typhon. I think I like this run more because its harder and better XP than the mobs in Olympus. Although there have been times where I wish Olympus had a portal so I could do a few quick Typhon runs before work or before bed, etc.

I just wanna say a quick thank you for TQ and thanks in advance for Grim Dawn. (thanks to soulseekor for the GD news in the defiler! i would have never known.)

It took me a few days to read this whole thread, mainly because I've been on a huge TQ binge lately and when reading about farming and people's ideas, I just want to play! Anyway, I had an idea kind of early on in reading the thread of an arena. And then arena popped up a few times in conversation but nobody really had the idea that I did.. that is until about page 18 I think. But I'd like to add on to that idea a little and see what people think.

It was Randomness who posted the idea of an Arena that, when you kill a boss it gets added to the arena. Well this is almost exactly what I was thinking early on in the thread. (And this isn't really instead of normal farming, this is in addition too). You "collect" boss monsters and named champions that get added to the arena. And when you enter the arena, you get a small options box where you can select the hardest "wave" you want to face and pay a fee based on difficulty and then its "all-you-can-eat" so to speak. As long as you don't exit or die, you can keep fighting random waves up to the hardest difficulty you chose. And I'd say there is little to no XP in the arena (so it can't be exploited for power leveling?) but there are some decent drops (maybe even some slightly different drops than in story areas?) and you can choose what to pick up and everything goes into some Arena chests that you can view when you're done and decide what to keep. But if you die, you lose everything. I'd also say that items dropped in the arena should either have no sale value or like 1/2 or 1/3 the value.

Wow, I think I'll cut myself off there cuz I know someone a few pages ago said to keep posts short. So if anyone likes this idea I can expand on some ideas for the difficulty options and such.


-inebriatedcaribou

[Squirrel_Bane]

i think a specialized area with a random generated map could be used for loot. i also think the inclusion of random generated items with good potential to be far greater than preset elite items is required.

as for the area i was thinking of devil may cry's bloody palace, mixed with pokemon's Cerulean cave, mixed with the area of the original zelda map where you had to go left to get out or it would repeat itself. lmao, kinda strange. a repeating map where if you go in all but a particular direction, you reach a deeper stage with a randomized map, creatures, and possibly quests. of course, go back where you came, and you end up at the beginning. stronger creatures give rarer loot. gives the illusion of going somewhere and advancing through stronger and stronger creatures, all the while gaining good loot and not actually going anywhere. lol
more or less a battle simulation where you gain loot as opposed to xp.

as for type of loot, mods and number of mods on magic/rare(blue/yellow[diablo], yellow/green[TQ]) should be based on character level and difference between char/monster level. easily allowing for ultra elite items(better than the preset elite items). allowing for characters to be unique and preventing the game from being spammed with cookie cutter elite sets/epics/legendaries/uniques.


stupid idea? probably. am i retarded? pretty much. but there is my two cents.

[Sile]

It would be good if there was an option that the game takes into account what class your using and only class specific loot drops off *bosses*. Whether it be set peices or swords for sword using classes etc.

Then at least, if you are farming, you not killing the same boss 30 times to get 1 peice of armour you can use.

Then obviously, you could turn the feature off so that bosses drop any type of item.

I still like the idea of having a rebirth fountain type thing close to a boss so I only have a 5-10 minute fight to get to the boss, like Typhoon. So with the above idea, it would make farming a lot quicker for your class items, but it doesn't take away the actual joy of farming a boss.

Best of both worlds imo, whether something like that is easy enoguh to do though is another question.

[EmperorZanus]

Originally Posted by Sile

It would be good if there was an option that the game takes into account what class your using and only class specific loot drops off *bosses*. Whether it be set peices or swords for sword using classes etc.

Then at least, if you are farming, you not killing the same boss 30 times to get 1 peice of armour you can use.

Then obviously, you could turn the feature off so that bosses drop any type of item.

I still like the idea of having a rebirth fountain type thing close to a boss so I only have a 5-10 minute fight to get to the boss, like Typhoon. So with the above idea, it would make farming a lot quicker for your class items, but it doesn't take away the actual joy of farming a boss.

Best of both worlds imo, whether something like that is easy enoguh to do though is another question.

Thanks for posting that idea. I totally agree!! I love farming bosses for cool loot and I don't always have lots of time for long stints of play. Having options in my control that allow me to tailor my experience for "bite sized" gaming makes me happy.

EZ

[Kardiophylax]

Originally Posted by Sile

It would be good if there was an option that the game takes into account what class your using and only class specific loot drops off *bosses*. Whether it be set peices or swords for sword using classes etc.

Then at least, if you are farming, you not killing the same boss 30 times to get 1 peice of armour you can use.

Then obviously, you could turn the feature off so that bosses drop any type of item.

I still like the idea of having a rebirth fountain type thing close to a boss so I only have a 5-10 minute fight to get to the boss, like Typhoon. So with the above idea, it would make farming a lot quicker for your class items, but it doesn't take away the actual joy of farming a boss.

Best of both worlds imo, whether something like that is easy enoguh to do though is another question.

Not a bad idea, but I actually like getting cool items I can't use on my primary character. I also enjoy the thrill of the hunt. It makes that item you've been searching for so much sweeter when you find it.

I agree that the drop rates are a tad low in TQ though, especially on first boss kills where you get nothing but yellows and maybe a brown or two.

[R3D]

i think fixing farming is not possible the closest idea i can think to do is the endless dungeon idea. that is it would offer an alternative way to get loot/xp and not force u to ruin the story as it is given to u or grind the same area over and over.
now working in an endless dungeon into the world and making it make scene is probably just as hard to do, but is doesn't have to be a dungeon it could be an arena where u fight through endless rounds but the xp/loot are designed around farming, or random encounter style mini quests that can offer a high loot/xp pay off if u survive (running along floor gives way stuck in an underground mine till the exit is found eg rope that lets u clime out of where u fell in). i don't no but something that offers a different choice to doing boss x y z.

don't no if it can be fixed as people will always farm bosses unless u take away there ability to drop sweet loot after a toon kills them once, and then people will still want to farm and u are just taking something away from players.

[Tarnsman]

Just to tune in on the farming issue, I farm very little myself. I like having random champion monsters scattered through the game that can have good drops. I will generally just play through all the maps again just so the scenery doesn't get stale, and maybe pop in and do a couple of boss runs from time to time...