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Old 04-20-2019, 01:24 PM
sephelutis sephelutis is offline
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 457

Originally Posted by sir spanksalot View Post
Let's not forget that the hardest counter to IT damage (i.e. reflection) is also heavily mitigated by the presence of virtue skill-line, while simultaneously giving it MORE flat IT and physical damage.
I do agree with this. A problem with oathkeeper right now really is so much crap tacked on a single skill. Presence of virtue for example has HP, OA, shield block chance and recovery, healing and for some reason reflect reduction. You dont get this with tactician and have to becareful with your skill useage or get reflection reduction.

I would argue to remove that reflection reduction already or reduce that percentage, because it already offers so damn much on a single skill line.

I also realise that EOR base tick is for some reason 0.2 per second rather than 0.3 like FOI or AAR. I do find this weird because it seems out of line against the other two on a skill already so good to play with. Make it baseline 0.3 would probably bring it more in line. Like you lose nearly 1/3 current damage with this fix but it feels fair to the other two channeled skills.
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:31 PM
somnium somnium is offline
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 421

Originally Posted by USER_NAME_01 View Post
I mean, it was already known that Octavius Warlord has no downsides, tanky as fuck, even more damage (also as fuck). Octavius in general is stupid, it's all about Internal Trauma and your build doesn't require much skill point investment. Normal builds need to max out a skill line, while Octavius Warlord only maxes Forcewave's Internal Trauma skill (third node, or second if you don't count the base skill) and Reprisal in case of Shield Throw (whatever its name is) as it has burn damage and fire is converted to IT. Also, fuckton of physical RR, which adds up more damage. Oh, and fuckton of armor, which adds up more layers of defense. Oh, and 3 mobility skills, in case you have to chase your target (because running away is never the case in this build). Oh, and defensive skills in case your HP drops low. Oh, and massive shield blocks, in case you take damage. And you can go over, and over, and over again about it.

And a side note: you don't even fight, you cast two skills and run around till your skills are off cooldown to randomly use them again. Randomly because no matter what you hit, multiple targets are damaged. This is basically another layer of defense. And as most bosses have only 25% physical resist (it jumps up only in case of some nemeses and super bosses, maybe end bosses because they have like 40%, but you don't usually face them), you only need one skill to increase your overall damage output, you effectively don't need Assassin's Mark vs. 95% of GD enemies.
I think there is a lager problem in that cost of gaining defenses for some classes(like Reaper and Elementalist) is prohibitively big while gaining only bit extra damage in return. Its far easier increase your offensive capability from external (non class)sources then it is to increase your defensive capability.

This gap is further widened by giving the already defensive superior classes the better defensive sets while typically also adding lots of offense (see Warborn and Octavius).
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:37 PM
Maya Maya is offline
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,653

Originally Posted by sir spanksalot View Post
What about increasing the phys RR on CoF/spectral wrath so that it surpasses the OK?
I fully agree with this
I make builds which play the game for me.. You can find most of them in my Profile Page.
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:46 PM
hammyhamster1 hammyhamster1 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 806

I suspect it may take more than a few patch updates to find a balance for this. The last octavius set tweak was very minor, which may indicate that the tweaks will be very cautious.

Iirc, it was only just prior to FG that AoM's Inquisitor saw any minor balance adjustments.

Last edited by hammyhamster1; 04-20-2019 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:52 AM
Khaop Khaop is offline
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 135

Okay so i've been working on crafting something that uses burn or converted internal trauma. I spent like 12h already in calc trying to optimize it.

What do you come to find? Build choices are completely overshadowed by Shockwave and Aegis - which can get so enormous base dot damage from just skills and a couple items that it dwarf other things - in other words it's way too much and way too little elsewhere.

Not only that but both are shield skills. Like shield needs this maxed power.

Yeeeeessss. Into the ground with it, put down the flat dot values to respectable levels as well as nerf the wep% damage on aegis a fair chunk. Then consider other sources for dot damage that isn't tied to those skills, the more general the better.

I'm doing a burn damage build atm that stacks burn up through sources of high wep% dmg, but it's extremely hard to build such a build that uses regular burn and scales it up with wep%. It's like these two damn shield skills are just turned up to the heavens in that regard. Not only that but also internal trauma is mega favored.

To make my build i ended up using no less than 7 greens because there was practically 0 item support, not any item did give me skills to anything i could use for my attempt with a battlemage. I'm using this scrapped together gear for it and then you look on something like that warlord that just got baseline + gear overpowered up the rear. Not only they got this insane skills vastly overshadowing, but also, because internal trauma is favored even though i put all my entire build into burn, a good internal trauma build gets higher weapon attack values of internal trauma in addition to having the insane skills.

Why not just remove other sources and just put everything into those two skills?
Spreadsheet OA/DA/Crit Damage /showthread.php?p=541861

Last edited by Khaop; 04-22-2019 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 04-22-2019, 01:23 PM
hellcat's Avatar
hellcat hellcat is offline
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,195

It appear that the "issue" with warlords is bound to combination of 3 major factors with greatest importance:

1. Retaliation damage added to attack.
IMO that's not even a real issue, just the cherry on top. Interaction with p.2-3 is what turned it problematic.

2. Additional source of phys RR.
IMO that's the rotten apple, but it's part of a bigger issue related to RR dominance in this game.

3. The unification of great portion of various retaliation damage sources into phys retaliation.
It's not a problem by itself, but interaction with p.2
Actually this unification was a smart and needed change.

Some people act like they never worked around block builds in GD. They've always been ridiculously tanky in this game.
Does some additional block chance and HP on top make such a great difference? Or the flat RR from shattering smash, which one could always get by speccing war cry? Unlikely.
It's the bloody celestial presence combined with the flat RR from SS/WC, interacting with increased sources of phys reta, with improved attack damage by RDAtA on top.
Buttfuck celestial presence and slightly lower flat phys reta, and just watch the river of tears all around the forum, and how "bad" warlords turned overnight.

Last edited by hellcat; 04-22-2019 at 04:46 PM.
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