#11  
Old 05-11-2017, 10:40 PM
EnjoyTheJourney EnjoyTheJourney is offline
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Originally Posted by Norzan View Post
Crab actually got a substantial buff recently, with the amount of damage nullified being bigger and it blocks more damage types.


Turtle scales like crap and becomes near useless in Ultimate, where enemies can shred through 2,7k HP like nobody's business.
I see Tortoise as attractive for what it opens up (Tree of Life, Obelisk of Memnir, ...) and for the DA / life bonuses, as well as for the celestial.

Even if you've got 10K life or thereabouts, then 2.7K from Turtle Shell is still a nice buffer to have, especially if you play hardcore and even if, sometimes, it never triggers as life heads toward zero.

If the other nodes for Tortoise were unappealing and it didn't open up appealing options, then I'd be reluctant to take it.
  #12  
Old 05-11-2017, 10:56 PM
Nssheepster Nssheepster is offline
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Turtle scales like crap and becomes near useless in Ultimate, where enemies can shred through 2,7k HP like nobody's business.
I hear that a lot... But then see people using builds with 10K HP. Yes, they CAN rip through a QUARTER of your max HP really quickly. So having an EXTRA quarter of your max HP... Not a bad idea, no?

Now, if we all normally had like 30K HP, then 2.7 would be nothing, it's a drop of water in a well at that point. But since we all run around with around 10K HP, unless we're a Warder... Then a quarter of your HP is not insignificant, in perspective.

So "Near useless"? Is 1/4 of your health bar near useless? You'd just toss that away, and not care, if you suddenly had 1/4 less health? I didn't think so.

*Disclaimer: I have gotten very, very tired of people who claim Turtle is "useless" or "scales poorly". Turtle isn't the best constellation ever or something, but it is far from being bad. Stop hating the poor Turtle.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2017, 11:11 PM
Norzan Norzan is offline
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I'd rather take Panther, Ulo and Solemn Watcher on the way to Tree of Life because their nodes are much better and Ulo proc is rather nice for removing enemy auras.

Also yes, 2,7k health is nothing in Ultimate and that just makes Turtle a really bad investment. I tried to use it in several my builds but it did next to nothing and i ended up using those devotion points in much better stuff. So yes, completely useless.

It's even worse when compared to other T1 constellation procs. So until the day they decided to make it even just decent, i'm going to continue to call it a really bad proc and that you have better stuff to invest instead of it.
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Last edited by Norzan; 05-11-2017 at 11:14 PM.
  #14  
Old 05-12-2017, 12:44 AM
Nssheepster Nssheepster is offline
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Also yes, 2,7k health is nothing in Ultimate
That's visibly nonsensical, and that's exactly why I can never seem to agree with the people who insist that it's true. 90 Points in Physique gets you less than 2K health, yet 90 to Phys is common, yes? By any comparison, 2.7K HP is far from "nothing"... Yet these comparisons are ignored ONLY when it comes to Turtle.
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:53 AM
Norzan Norzan is offline
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Originally Posted by Nssheepster View Post
That's visibly nonsensical, and that's exactly why I can never seem to agree with the people who insist that it's true. 90 Points in Physique gets you less than 2K health, yet 90 to Phys is common, yes? By any comparison, 2.7K HP is far from "nothing"... Yet these comparisons are ignored ONLY when it comes to Turtle.
Because the health from Physique is constantly there while Turtle Shell only procs when your health is below 30%. So no, not the same thing. Not to mention the proc has a cooldown (and a massive one at that, 30 seconds), so it's not an effective 2,7k health.

That's not even the main issue with the constellation. It has atrocious investment returns for a 5 points constellation. Solemn Watcher has better nodes. Panther has better nodes. Ulo has better nodes. This is just comparing with nearby constellations with similar investments and awarded devotion points.
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Last edited by Norzan; 05-12-2017 at 12:57 AM.
  #16  
Old 05-12-2017, 12:08 PM
EnjoyTheJourney EnjoyTheJourney is offline
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Because the health from Physique is constantly there while Turtle Shell only procs when your health is below 30%. So no, not the same thing. Not to mention the proc has a cooldown (and a massive one at that, 30 seconds), so it's not an effective 2,7k health.

That's not even the main issue with the constellation. It has atrocious investment returns for a 5 points constellation. Solemn Watcher has better nodes. Panther has better nodes. Ulo has better nodes. This is just comparing with nearby constellations with similar investments and awarded devotion points.
You've only accounted for 6 of 8 order devotion points needed for Obelisk. You probably have an implicit assumption about what to add that you're not stating, but it won't necessarily be the best choice for every build.

I've found that Tortoise DA bonuses end up being the difference between hitting 2200+ DA total in ultimate and not quite being there, and I value that. YMMV, of course.
  #17  
Old 05-12-2017, 12:50 PM
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Because the health from Physique is constantly there while Turtle Shell only procs when your health is below 30%. So no, not the same thing. Not to mention the proc has a cooldown (and a massive one at that, 30 seconds), so it's not an effective 2,7k health.
It activates at 40% health. The only way that the cooldown is relevant is if you are constantly hitting the health threshold which means you have far bigger problems than a few devotion points. Long as you have a solid baseline defense it is effectively 2.7k health.
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