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  #21  
Old 11-26-2013, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by danielzaiser91 View Post
Does Cunning increase +% physical dmg?
It adds flat and %physical (and should do that for internal trauma, piercing and bleeding) damage for weapon attacks (they should have at least 1 point of this damage type to get these bonuses) and %damage for skills which are used as weapon attacks (Cadence, Blitz, Blade Arc, Fire Strike (not AOE)). So it substantially effects skills which use %weapon damage as well but I believe it takes only "pure" weapon damage, not the whole attack damage. Can be wrong about the last though.
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  #22  
Old 11-26-2013, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Raven View Post
It adds flat and %physical (and should do that for internal trauma, piercing and bleeding) damage for weapon attacks (they should have at least 1 point of this damage type to get these bonuses) and %damage for skills which are used as weapon attacks (Cadence, Blitz, Blade Arc, Fire Strike (not AOE)).
So here I have to question your assumption. Does Cunning's %physical damage only affect melee attacks or affect all types of attacks that do physical damage (like Vile Eruption)? Have you actually verified this assumption of yours?


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  #23  
Old 11-26-2013, 02:05 AM
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That's easy If Cunning only affect Vile Eruption Warden would blast from a single shot. Each spike of VE does 169 physical damage maxed. My soldier in B11 had Blitz with about 160 physical damage. It was hitting for 1,5-2k with a normal strike and over 7k with crits. Now imagine 8 spikes hitting Warden for 1,5-2k each. Along with all other damage from DEE.
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  #24  
Old 11-26-2013, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by tnj View Post
Actually you can stat +%OA on it's own. But thanks for being patronizing!
If you couldn't increase it independently of Cunning, your original post would be pointless

Not sure why you prefer +OA over +Cunning. Logically it makes no sense as the same +% for Cunning gives the same OA increase as the +OA does, and you get additional damage, making +Cunning the better choice.

In general, I don't care for buffing derivative stats, I prefer buffing the ones they derive from.
  #25  
Old 11-26-2013, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Raven View Post
1. Cunning affects weapon attacks only. It will not scale skills like Vile Eruption.

2. Spirit adds not just %magical damage (as well as Cunning) but flat magical damage as well when you have at least 1 point source of this magic damage on your weapon.

3. Spirit scales skills damage which are not weapon attacks, unlike Cunning.

4. Physique's main purpose is not HP but DA. DA plays way more important role than it did in TQ as it allows to avoid missiles and many spells as well.
Do we have formulas for the above (1 and 2 really) ?
  #26  
Old 11-26-2013, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Raven View Post


1. Cunning affects weapon attacks only. It will not scale skills like Vile Eruption. So for physical/piercing/bleeding damage weapon attacks Cunning is the best, indeed. Piercing and bleeding when the bug is fixed of course.

2. Spirit adds not just %magical damage (as well as Cunning) but flat magical damage as well when you have at least 1 point source of this magic damage on your weapon. That's why adding just 1 point of any magical damage boosts your DPS for about 5-10 points and more with high Spirit.
So tenth11 and certiorari are confirming your statement that cunning only affects the weapon attack physical damage and doesn't actually affect Vile Eruption's physical attacks. They also stated that spirit didn't affect it either. Yet they stated that cunning is still the stronger stat than spirit. And this is mostly for the increase crits multiplier and the increased chance for crits.

So we do have for spells that don't deal any physical damage you'd want spirit (which are limited at the moment), but for spells that do deal physical damage you want cunning for the increased crit multiplier and increased crit chance.

I'm still not truly convinced that Physique and Spirit are that necessary or as viable as a high Cunning character.


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  #27  
Old 11-26-2013, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mamba View Post
Do we have formulas for the above (1 and 2 really) ?
No I don't. It could be done with testing but it will be easier (and much more precise) to just wait and get these formulas from Crate or modders

I just base my assumptions on how it worked in TQ and what I see of easily noticeable changes when adding magic or physical damage source to your weapon and see average damage and DPS change.

I am pretty positive though that Cunning does not effect non-weapon physical damage skills while Spirit does it for magic skills. Not sure about exact %% as well
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  #28  
Old 11-26-2013, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Dejnov View Post
So tenth11 and certiorari are confirming your statement that cunning only affects the weapon attack physical damage and doesn't actually affect Vile Eruption's physical attacks. They also stated that spirit didn't affect it either. Yet they stated that cunning is still the stronger stat than spirit. And this is mostly for the increase crits multiplier and the increased chance for crits.
It would be great if Vile Eruption would crit

Quote:
So we do have for spells that don't deal any physical damage you'd want spirit (which are limited at the moment), but for spells that do deal physical damage you want cunning for the increased crit multiplier and increased crit chance.
Spells which hit regardless of OA don't crit. It is absolutely true for Forcewave for example, must be true for Counter Strike, seems to be true for DEE tiers. So I still can insist that Cunning is totally useless for spells like that.

Quote:
I'm still not truly convinced that Physique and Spirit are that necessary or as viable as a high Cunning character.
That's your holy right You can just pump Cunning for all your characters.
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  #29  
Old 11-26-2013, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven View Post
3. Spirit scales skills damage which are not weapon attacks, unlike Cunning. And many of these skills apply regardless of OA/DA (Blood Burst for example or Forcewave - which is not affected by Spirit directly though, and probably even Vile Eruption, can't say that for sure yet). So Cunning is not needed for many skills at all.

4. Physique's main purpose is not HP but DA. DA plays way more important role than it did in TQ as it allows to avoid missiles and many spells as well. HP would be easier to get with flat and %life from your gear. However, Physique is still reserved for tanks and summoners - which is normal on my sight. As well as Cunning reserved for physical damage fighters (melee or ranged) and Spirit reserved for pure casters.
The problem with spirit is that the higher crit multiplier from cunning can (and does) more damage potential than spirit so point number 3 is invalidated.

Now point 4 is a valid point. You do need DA to avoid return crits. That might become in later levels a very valid reason for adding physique. Unfortunately, until we get to later levels, we're still watching high cunning builds plow through most mobs without breaking a sweat... and I think because of the percentage nature of cunning it'll only stay the same or get worse. Right now we have characters barely breaking 1000 cunning. What happens when they're breaking 4000 or 5000 cunning? Will we see builds that always do x3 damage?

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  #30  
Old 11-26-2013, 03:22 AM
danielzaiser91 danielzaiser91 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejnov View Post
Right now we have characters barely breaking 1000 cunning. What happens when they're breaking 4000 or 5000 cunning? Will we see builds that always do x3 damage?

Dejnov.
crit chance has a cap i think, so it wont be a crit on every hit
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