The make or break pinpoint pointout in ARPGs for myself

[Sampe]

For me in this game is going to be the unique items. Great emphasis should be given to designing
memorable, likeable and awesome unique items.
The awesomeness may easily be perceived incorrectly. Often the key to awesome in this matter is simplicity. I think the greatest positive in D2:lod was uniques, something that other games have failed to repeat it. For reference my favorite unique armor in D2 (Goldskin, no link for newbs). I upped and socketed it in order to make it work, and it did work quite well. Other armor would have been better, but this way i felt awesome.

This was just a little pinpoint idea I wanted to make because i think it's crucial and is easily failed at. SIMPLICITY LEADS TO LIKEABILITY.

Also anyone know when the alpha starts? I just found out a new ARPG is on the way an hour ago and now I'm back where i have been for too long, most notably D3.

[yerkyerk]

Welcome!

Agree on the uniques, though I'd add runewords on top of that myself (all for Enigma, which was broken OP). I was never too fond of Goldskin, myself but I can understand that you were and I think it just shows the awesomeness of D2 itemization.

As for the alpha; they aim to release it either at the end of this year, or early next year.

[Sampe]

I agree with me too. Goldskin is awesome, but also took it as an example because of the simplicity. Just Rs,Gf and lr. I never developed an attachment to the RWs though, they were all about the OP. Fortitude, BOTD etc. Some of the uniques were OP too though, but a little more specializing, for example Draculs'. The itemization is all about not having must have stats, but multiple routes to go with each eguip slot. D2 only fails at having too few items whereas D3 fails at everything, makes me cry inside. From my little experience with TQ I think I remember thinking the items had too many useless properties, too much random.

[Sampe]

Upping for truth. NEW OP.

[yerkyerk]

I contest that simplicity leads to likeability.

How about a weapon that gives;
+ 5 to strength
+ 3 to dexterity
+ 2 to intelligence

Very simple, very boring. I would say you liked that particular unique item because it filled a unique purpose.

[Sampe]

Originally Posted by yerkyerk

I contest that simplicity leads to likeability.

How about a weapon that gives;
+ 5 to strength
+ 3 to dexterity
+ 2 to intelligence

Very simple, very boring. I would say you liked that particular unique item because it filled a unique purpose.

Is that a good weapon? No. Items should rely on a few good properties, the values should never be neglible, talking about uniques ofc, magics and rares need RNG.
I can't relate to a weapon that has 20 different properties with every property not being strong enough to feel like it makes a significant difference.

For example Draculs' chance to cast life tap makes all the difference with a melee char. I want items that change the way I play.

BOTTOM LINE: I don't necessarily want simple items, but items with STRONG properties. For balancing purposes you can't have too many of them on 1 item.

[Flashburn]

So what you are saying is that you want useful items, not simple items, they don't have to be the one item to rule them all but at least useful for some build.

Not meaning to bring out our current favourite punching bag but in D3, strength modifiers on wizard staves? (or int modifiers on swords) which have absolutely no purpose at all (at least in D2/D1 strength helped equip stuff so even mages and archers needed a little bit). Now some argue, well that increases the randomness because there aren't many different modifiers in D3 to start with, if every item had the right modifiers, we would lose interest in farming but I think it's just lazy design and it's one of the biggest let downs in D3. I mean they made some nice innovations in other areas of the game but loot, the heart of a loot centric game, nope we've gone back to Diablo 1 (if not worse, I don't have the heart for the research but I wager even D1 had a more interesting affix/suffix pool)

Guarantee at least one class useful affix on a staff/barb sword/crossbow/etc, so instead of finally killing that seemingly immortal elite pack for them to drop a yellow staff and my first thought is please, please don't let it suck too hard to something around yes! a staff well at least it should be half good.

I remember remember a unique set of gloves which I don't think I ever found, Hellmouth had a chance to cast meteor on hit, I could just imagine an archer's strafe and fire raining from the sky

Actually looking at just the unique gloves from LOD, I could find a use for almost them all, unique and useful, not unique and guaranteed affix/prefix that may or may not suck and has lottery like odds of dropping at any level close to the equip level.

Oh no couldn't have that, it was like that intentionally designed the unique drop rates so that only a party of four in inferno with full nephilim have any chance of finding a lv28 unique! - if you play single player/lower levels - unlucky...but come poor single player step right up to our auction house, oh you don't have the gold? Well that's what our RMAH is for! It sickens me.

Back to Titan quest, the drop rate for uniques wasn't bad - okay the first thing I do is defiler the rate to double but even without that the odds weren't bad, the items were mostly useful for somebody and we had MI's to collect as well so something interesting always dropped and you didn't have to be legendary to find them.

[Sampe]

Just thought more about the items, and the names and art play a significant part in making an item stand out from the mass. Ideally all uniques would stand out in one way or another, they are called uniques afterall.

Also, the chance to find stellar end game viable items from all the areas and difficulties make a significant contribution for the rest of the game not being just a speed bump before end-game.

[madned]

Originally Posted by Sampe

For me in this game is going to be the unique items. Great emphasis should be given to designing
memorable, likeable and awesome unique items.
...
SIMPLICITY LEADS TO LIKEABILITY.
...

I think you can simplify your statement to: great emphasis should be given to creating memorable items.

One part of creating a memorable item is a background. Giving a thing a name gives it some personality, so in some regards that LoD quest to personalize your gear was a missed opportunity, b/c who really wants to have simply their name stamped on an object, particularly if there's no statistical benefit.
Being able to name an object on the other hand, grant it a specific spirit that might be attractive.
Uniques in Diablo came with names and specific enchants reflecting their names, that gave them a leg up for helping players construct a history and didn't hurt that they often were pretty good gear for level appropriate characters.

Which leads to a second point. A memorable item is something you use. A friend you know well and have developed a history with. A really excellent rare or crafted item could easily served similar purposes. But the reason you develop that history is it's useful and therefore was there when stuff happened. That generally means it has properties you want, also there's the fashion statement aspect :P

This attachment to specific objects runs a little counter to the basic mechanic of standard ARPGs, since they're mostly about the loot and the constant upgrades.
The relation can also be inverted when the conditions are violated. you can really start to detest a piece of gear when it sucks(relatively) but it's the best you got/found.
On the other hand there can also be a certain pride in operating with sub-optimum gear which would tend to turn that gear into a sort of mascot. for example the cracked javelin of javazon lore.

So seems to me the objective should be to enable that connection, even if fated to be severed.

For the simplicity thing, I'm inclined to disagree, but on reconsideration. Yes, a really identifiable piece of gear is distinctive because it has few distractions. All the bits contribute to telling its story. The light radius enchant on gold skin might be superfluous on other gear, but well it's goldskin so should be Shiny! Although I'm not quite sure why there's damage to attacker there as well.

[Sampe]

Originally Posted by madned

A really identifiable piece of gear is distinctive because it has few distractions.

This captures my idea better than my own post.. Never been good with transferring thougts out of my head.