Warren Spector believes games are too vielent & gory

[durruti]

Originally Posted by yerkyerk

One of the reasons I didn't like Supreme Commander was because there was no gore.

would you kindly follow me to the gaspowered forums in order to be tared and feathered. thank you.

[LostSoul]

Like everything in life, violence is something that should only be present when applicable and appropriate. Nintendo has entire frachises of great games that have little in the way overt violence.

The problem is lazy or inept parents who don't "parent" their children but instead leave it to the child, their teachers, and society at large to raise them...and this problem isn't going anywhere.

Games like Halo, Modern Warfare, and all their ilk shouldn't be getting sold to minors. It's that simple. We don't show R-rated movies to minors for the same reason; these games aren't appropriate for them either. They are ADULT entertainment (which doesn't immediately mean TnA, contrary to what you'd think from the Witcher series or terribad Duke Nukem). It simply means "Contents not suitable for children", no more and no less.

And the ESRB agrees and does a damn good job with limited resources trying to keep a handle on all the games that get released each year. Rated M for Mature is on every single of these games and for a good reason. The stores aren't supposed to be selling them to minors....but they do. The parents shouldn't be buying them for their kids...but they do.

Parents aren't being held responsible for their poor choices in raising their children, and the stores selling these goods are simply doing what's best for their business (ie move product). This isn't a problem that can be solved with laws, by increased awareness, or a new design paradigm. It's far far deeper than that.

[yerkyerk]

Originally Posted by durruti

would you kindly follow me to the gaspowered forums in order to be tared and feathered. thank you.

Heh, there's always one guy at our LAN-parties who wants to play Supreme Commander. We played it once, everyone else loathes it. I think there's plenty of reasons I'm not following you to those forums


On-topic: I'd like to restate that I think most young children can handle gratuitous violence just fine. Unlike a lot of people for some reason believe, children are well able to perceive the difference between fiction and reality.
If you're against violence for kids, you shouldn't let them watch the news or read the bible either...

[Renevent]

I think I basically agree with your thoughts/feelings shawnmck. I mean, I do agree with Warren that a lot of the violence in video games today appeal to this really juvenile version of it...including the way sexuality is portrayed. At the same time though, gosh darnit it's supposed to be a free country and let responsible adults make their own decisions.

I certainly realize these games get into kids hands anyways, but that's ultimately up to their parents and I'm fine with that too. As for the kids without responsible parent, well they got bigger problems than video games if you ask me. I think it's unreasonable to think we can save everyone (even from themselves) and I'm pretty tired of the nanny state stuff that comes out of the whole "think of the children!" stuff.

[hay82]

I think step one would have to be proving that violence and gore in video games have a negative effect on children. If it doesn't then who cares how much of it there is? Then we can look at who should be allowed to play these games, something that's already in place but just isn't inforced or really that easy to inforce. Really, just leave it to the parents but give them a good guide. I'd bet that letting young children play video games will rank very low in the list of ways parents mess up their children.

[GREW50ME]

Some people might think I have a screw loose, but I personally love violence in games, and gore. I was raised on Mario, but games like Mortal Kombat and Diablo 1 showed me what I was missing.

I think that certain types of games are better with gore. Gore satisfies a certain fascination that select individuals have. Studies even show that as video game violence and gore increase, violent crimes decrease. Chainsawing someone in half in Gears of War is a great way to release violent urges without acting on them in real life.

Having established all of this, I am a big fan of games with plenty of gore, but also a fan of an on/off toggle for those who dislike such things.

[Thelionheart]

I think the sticking point when it comes to violence is, and always shall be, how it is portrayed and not necessarily the amount/intensity of it. For instance, showing a torture scene with little to no blood where the entire point of the scene is to induce pain on another human being is arguably worse than throwing a grenade into a bunker on a D-day level.

Depicting violence in a semi realistic fashion where there is no consequence is worse than when showing the cause and effect that violence had. I think gore can even help this point. Just shooting a guy where there is no blood, no gore, no nothing completely takes away the human element from that person. It takes away the fact that this man or woman had blood, had a heart, had a brain, etc. Taking away that visual effect essentially turns the target into a robot.

[Pimpollo]

He's talking about the glorification and fetishisation of violence in games. It's absolutely horrifying when violence doesn't trigger ANY other sentiment than satisfaction or glee. It fits some games but when the intent is to sensationalize violence, that is when we have a problem. Man Bites Dog is a good movie that speaks to this issue. If you have time, check it out.

[eNTi]

he seems to be misquoted quite a bit, yeah. violence and brutality has become cool in the gaming community. if you kill, you kill with style. that's what i hate most about games like deus ex 3 or assassins creed and kill cams. it's sickening, stupid and beyond believe glorified killing.

[Shoganai]

Originally Posted by Pimpollo

He's talking about the glorification and fetishisation of violence in games. It's absolutely horrifying when violence doesn't trigger ANY other sentiment than satisfaction or glee. It fits some games but when the intent is to sensationalize violence, that is when we have a problem.

Exactly +1