Gameplay "Profit & Loss"

[nolnacs]

Great post and it is really important. I've been thinking about this quite a bit over the past couple of weeks as I have been playing my way through TQ. I picked it up after hearing about Grim Dawn and becoming a backer.

Anyway, what drives me absolutely crazy about TQ is that I struggle with the bosses. I tend to die quite a bit against some of them (others are really easy due to my build) and the length of time that it takes me to walk back to the boss is so frustrating. After I have made that minute and a half long walk 10 times against one boss with instakill (I'm talking about you Barmanu/Manticore), I become sick of playing the game and I just want to quit.

I don't mind having difficult boss battles or dying, but the tedious walking back to the battle just to die again in 10 seconds is aggravating. Actually, walking in general is aggravating. Arcanum for all of its flaws was a big offender in my opinion with the giant towns.

Anyway, maybe it was made that way to prevent boss farming but for a person who just wants to play the game through it is frustrating.

Didn't mean to turn this into such a rant... looking forward to GD

[Droppz]

Diablo 2 are certainly a good game, but you shouldn't worry much about it, I liked Titan Quest even with it's flaws over Diablo. I imagine alot of fans think the same or why else would they play it right?

Speaking for myself i want "Titan Quest 2" a game that expands on the first one but adds new cool stuff.

I do not want much to change really. You already made alot of stuff better over orginal TQ, but i wouldn't want it to turn into Torchlight or Diablo 3.

[DrKrunkenstein]

I have to agree, honestly. Diablo 2 is, in my opinion, the best ARPG there is. Its simply the best example of a combination of elements that nuance and accentuate each other.

I've been playing the Torchlight 2 beta, Diablo 2, and TQ recently, as well as some Diablo 3. Even in the face of these new shiny ARPGs, Diablo 2 still holds up extremely well.

One of the single greatest failures of Torchlight is their item progression, which is surprising to me since Diablo 2 had it down perfectly. The progression of base gear stats was easy to understand, visually identifiable, and statistically coherent to a predictable structure. In Diablo 2, there was a sense of what items you should have when. Off the top of my head I know that the armor progression goes - Quilted, Leather, Hard Leather, Studded Leather, Ringmail, Chain Mail/Breast Plate, Splint Mail - which is Acts 1 through 2. Torchlight devolved into item soup, where the numbers had no meaning to them, and gear had no predictable structure.

Titan Quest's gear progression is now in the quiet category of ARPGs that didn't break that structure, and thank you for that. Its an aspect that honestly doesn't get enough attention in the ARPG. The gear metagame has largely been abandoned in a lot of ARPGs, which is sad as its a layer of complexity and character development that was a big part of the ARPG. If there's one thing I hope for from Grim Dawn, its that it maintains a gear progression structure like TQ and Diablo 2 did.

[Wingflier]

Great article, thank you.

[Santa]

Originally D3 was going to be made more like D2/TQIT mix and self hosted......

Then they dropped the bomb shell.... Due to it taking SO damn long to develop new game systems came into being and they migrated it to online server only !!

Since that time I dumped my pre-order! I was SO looking forward to D3 but that really ruined it for me!

Now they are implementing a items shop for real money where people can trade items they want for cash! Minus the devs cut!

Many online games have turned into CASH COWS where making money is more important than fun/enjoyment. Its a shame.

Just look at the plethora of "free games" that end up costing a fortune!

That's why I loved TQ/ITs method of hosting a game through a lobby ... you could password it for buddies or BOOT annoying players! Even with online only games, how many people can you really play with at one time? Sure there can be thousands online but you wont really be able to play with them all! There will always be a spot for games like GD and TQIT.. just go look in the lobby on a weekend.. still LOTS playing!

TQ/IT was the greatest game of its type at the time. It even allowed you to learn HOW it was made through the toolset for mods etc! How fantastic is that? I feel TQIT was so great because of the modding it allowed! Just have a look at some of the great stuff that players came up with (Myself included heehee).

More importantly, games you host yourself only cost you the GAME.... no annoying adds prompting you to buy the current "special offer" trying to suck your money.

[Rolo42]

Originally Posted by Santa

TQ/IT was the greatest game of its type at the time.

I think it still is.

[Capn Tucker]

Originally Posted by Rolo42

I think it still is.

Have to agree. TQ for me was (and is) far superior to Diablo. Graphically and gameplay. I much preferred the story as well. I love mythology, and the mythologies of Ancient Greece and Egypt with all their great stories and fantastic creatures was infinitely more interesting to me than the Prime Evils.
The only thing I disliked was the non-random levels.
Grim Dawn promises to address this issue with it's partial randomization, and even if everything else is identical to Titan Quest I'll still be a happy camper.
And the devs have said they will improving lots of other stuff too, so an improved Titan Quest will be better still than the big red guy..

[Rolo42]

Exactly; I thought the mythology was one of the coolest things, brilliant.

Can't compare graphics though since they are from two different eras. Blizz definitely dropped the ball in all they had to do was make "more Diablo, only better" every year for the past 12 rather than playing catch-up now. ("A good plan today is better than the perfect plan tomorrow." -Patton)

So...more TQ....only better! (TQ guts with a new world will be sweet)

[ZiggyD]

Ah, I love reading game design thought processes like this. For me a huge part of the profit is coming to understand the synergies between skills and how I can use them.

[RoTaN]

Great post, I am glad I supported Crate

As for D1/D2 - I would love if they updated them graphically, one of my favorite games of all time. Same goes for FF7.