Kickstarter or other funding

[Harlequin]

This is pretty cool and I think you can be optimistic about going to Kickstarter. You are the guys who made TitanQuest, one of the most successful arpgs ever created. (Even if it took some time to get there)

[garkham]

One more basic question : If the kickstarter page have more than the 3 basic pre-order pack, would it be possible for any pre-orderer to back further with no loss of money ? For example, if I pre-order $48 and want the $100-pledge, to have the possibility to select this with just $52 (or a little bit more) ?

I really don't know what kind of "gifts" you're going to promise, but if a boxed version exists for $100, I will have to back for this one... but don't want to double pay (which wouldn't be double fine for me).

[medierra]

Originally Posted by Kardiophylax

I appreciate that you are considering the Kickstarter route. I have several concerns that I hope you are keeping in mind.

Here are things I hope you DO NOT do:

1. Do NOT jeopardize the artistic vision or "hardcore" nature of the game just to grab more backers from the Diablo 3 crowd.

Honestly, I think the people we'd be most likely to grab from the D3 crowd would be people who wanted a more hardcore-oriented game. Grim Dawn won't be too much more hardcore than TQ but it won't be any less. We're not dumbing down any of the systems. If we started simplifying systems to be more ultra-casual friendly, I think we'd just end up in more direct competition with the bigger companies, which is not what we want. For this game to be successful, we need to be offering something different.

2. Do not feel this means you need to design the game by committee. Admittedly, this is similar to my first point.

Yeah, I always look to you guys for feedback when I'm on the fence about something but ultimately, I think it is my responsibility as a designer to figure out what is best for the game and our core audience. If we were just going to design by committee, I don't think I'd be doing my job. I think the community is good when it comes to showing work or asking questions where you can say "yes, I like this" or "that isn't working" but it is my job to try to consider all of the underlying and long-term implications of any given feature in terms of how it will affect the game as a whole.

3. Do not leave those of us that have been here for years hanging out to dry. What I mean is that I hope the Legendary pre-order crowd is going to get the same benefits (or better) benefits as those who pledge in the $50 price range on the kickstarter. I mean, I support the project, but I also support a lot of other projects (3 kickstarters and several other Desura/indie projects) and don't want to feel obligated to re-donate because the Kickstarter supports get better rewards for their donation.

Our current plan is to make the first 3 pledge tiers identical to the pre-order keys. We're also trying to figure out a system through which existing key-holders can upgrade. It is sort of messy and there isn't a very good solution for merging the two systems but we think the possible benefit of doing Kickstarter for everyone, us and you, is worth the added challenges. With a little extra effort, I think we can make it all work. At the worst, I think we'll just end up having to manually process a lot of upgrade emails.

Now, obviously you are going to do whatever you want to do. I understand that this will help you get the game out quicker, and that's great. I just don't want to see the project I've been patiently waiting for morph into something quite different.

I've already noticed Brian Fargo wobbling on a lot of Wasteland 2 points and have wondered if my financial backing is still going to support the same project I initially agreed to. He's talking about adding social aspects that have NO place in the game for instance.

I don't mean to sound harsh or act like I have any authority over the project, as obviously I do not. I am a virtual nobody who has spent some time on the forums and provided some minimal financing to the game. My only hope is to bring to light some of the things you may want to consider carefully before you go live with your project.

Well, the nice thing with Grim Dawn, is that it already exists. All of the features we'll be promising are already in the game. It is what it is and that isn't going to change.

We just want funding so that we do MOAR! with the tools / features we have, build more content, spend more time on polish, and get the game done faster. If we could just bring on our part-time people full-time and maybe get another designer and artist on the project, that would be huge.

More money basically just means that we'll be able to realize more of the potential that already exists in Grim Dawn. We have tools and features that would allow us to do some amazing things but I'm afraid we're just not going to be able to really fully utilize them in our current situation. With the new quest system Rhis built, we have the ability to create quest choices that can lead to different results and even leave lasting visual changes on the world. Right now, I'm not sure we're going to be able to do much of that, at least in the initial release. We also have the faction system, which we could do some very cool things with but also probably won't get to fully utilize with our current man-power.

So really what we're talking about is just a better, more fully realized Grim Dawn with MOAR equipment, quests, enemies and larger world.

If we significantly exceed our funding goal, being able to hire a full-time producer would be a godsend. It would free me up to focus more of my effort on design, which is really where you want me and I'd have more time and help producing updates and material for you guys to see throughout the development process.

Keep in mind that Obsidian is considering kickstarter as is DoubleBear with their Dead State title (which has had Rock, Paper, Shotgun publicity already as well), so even after Wasteland 2 finishes, there are still going to be some titles competing for backer money.

I'm very aware of this and it is why we're trying to get something done soon despite the fact that there is probably already some contributor fatigue. My feeling is that interesting, small projects are just going to keep rolling out on Kickstarter at greater frequency.

[Kardiophylax]

Excellent responses to my concerns all around, medierra. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to address them. I am glad that I am still on the same page with your current line of thinking.

Best of luck on the launch. I'll look forward to seeing you on kickstarter.

[medierra]

Originally Posted by garkham

One more basic question : If the kickstarter page have more than the 3 basic pre-order pack, would it be possible for any pre-orderer to back further with no loss of money ? For example, if I pre-order $48 and want the $100-pledge, to have the possibility to select this with just $52 (or a little bit more) ?

I really don't know what kind of "gifts" you're going to promise, but if a boxed version exists for $100, I will have to back for this one... but don't want to double pay (which wouldn't be double fine for me).

I think we may do a $52 version that is just for Legendary key-holders who want to upgrade to a $100 version or whatever, since I think that is probably the most likely upgrade scenario. For other upgrades, we'll probably just have to do those manually.

I'm not planning for a boxed version atm... Tim Schafer and Brian Fargo have more experience on the business end of game development and no doubt, better connections with publishers that could help produce a boxed version. I think this is something we can do eventually but I don't currently know how to go about it other than trying to find a publisher that will partner with us on a boxed version. That isn't something I want to promise that we're going to be able to do upfront by a certain deadline.

[garkham]

Thanks medierra.

As Thorns said, you might have "goals" further than you're original funding goal on Kickstarter. I think having a boxed version is a good goal, for example if you fund your game at 200 or 300% of your basic funding goal. For example at the end of the Kickstarter process (4-5 days before the end), it is a good way to renew the craze for the project. Tim Schafer did it very well, and as Kardiophylax said, Brian Fargo isn't doing that so good...