Game Length

[Betrayer]

I just wanted to discuss what I thought was TQ's fatal flaw (not that it wasn't awesome).
The game was way, way, WAY too long for this type of game.
It really discouraged trying new builds and even simply finishing the game was an epic quest that I think a very small percentage actually achieved.

I also think the whole game suffered for it's ambition and length.
What would be ideal for TQ in retrospect would be to condense all the huge amount of content into a 10 hour game. There would be so much variety in the environments and monsters and replayability.
What ended up happening was all the environments lasted literally about 5x longer than it felt they should, which gave the player more than enough time to get bored.
What could have been a dense and jam-packed experience, was spread as thin as possible to pad the game length unnecessarily.

It's just my opinion but I feel a short game is not only not a detriment, but is in fact ideal in a genre where randomness and replayability are paramount.

[Scryer]

I think if they make variations in the environment from time to time it will lessen the effect of feeling like you've been playing the same area forever.

It might feel better to the player if instead of having a 3 hour wood-land play through, you see a mix of vegetation, destruction, desolation, meadow, and other environments.

For those 3 hours you now have a mix of scenery, rather then stuff that looks exactly the same.

Maybe also by putting in something the player can interact with sometimes. Like an NPC.

Small things in your path of destruction that add to the sense of progression and fun.

I know how much it sucks looking at the same thing for hours on end.

[medierra]

I agree TQ drags on in areas. We definitely want to refine the experience and accelerate the pace with GD. Honestly though, we don't have the time to build such a massive game anyway.

It's kind of funny but I think I'd prefer to replay a shorter game more than I'd want to slog through twice as many hours of unique gameplay to finish a game once. I even feel that way about D2. I've finished countless replays of the game with dozens of different characters on multiple difficulties but there are times when I get to Act3 and just feel like "oh god... not this place again". Same with the arcane sanctuary...

Unfortunately with TQ I feel that way immediately when I go to run through Greece again.

[An7hraX]

Originally Posted by medierra

I agree TQ drags on in areas. We definitely want to refine the experience and accelerate the pace with GD. Honestly though, we don't have the time to build such a massive game anyway.

It's kind of funny but I think I'd prefer to replay a shorter game more than I'd want to slog through twice as many hours of unique gameplay to finish a game once. I even feel that way about D2. I've finished countless replays of the game with dozens of different characters on multiple difficulties but there are times when I get to Act3 and just feel like "oh god... not this place again". Same with the arcane sanctuary...

Unfortunately with TQ I feel that way immediately when I go to run through Greece again.

Yeah thank goodness for the loopholes in act 3 so that you can rush yourself through it with someone who has the last 2 WPs.

Someone mentioned different scenery and I think that it's an almost perfect statement. You can create the same epic sized world we saw in Titan Quest, just break the areas down, for example for it's size Greece can easily be two different acts instead of 1.


That being said I liked arcane sanctuary, yes it was long especially if you and your party weren't strong enough to separate and go in different directions. But that being said it looked so unique and it was designed like no other dungeon, so that made it a lot less tedious than Act 3.

[eisprinzessin]

Originally Posted by medierra

Well, I'd keep in mind that the game won't be short, just the first installment will be. Basically we don't have the budget to make enough content for a full-length game as our first release. So, instead, we're doing it in installments and using the profit from the first to help fund the next. Think of it like we're currently making Greece.

Originally Posted by medierra

We also wouldn't really want to turn this into a giant TQ-scope project. TQ cost way too much to develop given what the market is now. I think the smaller initial release we're shooting for is good. The problem is that the more funding you use to build the game - the more sales you need to make and the longer it takes before you start to see revenue. We don't want to spend several million dollars making the game and then go out of business in the 8 months it takes after release before the game becomes profitable and royalties start coming in.

... pre-KS feedback

[Betrayer]

Thanks for the response Medierra; I agree!


@ Scryer

Indeed, but my point is it doesn't need to be that long, in fact I would argue that it shouldn't be that long. When you have a near limitless number of classes to play and a game that encourages replayability with random loot etc., making the game too long fights directly with those points.

When I'm less than half way through TQ I find myself pining for a new build that I want to try out, but I want to finish the game at least. Unfortunately that means, 30 more hours of trudging through with my character. And forget the harder game modes. Such a small percentage of people would play through the long campaign and then want to play through it all with the same character again... TWICE even.
Of course, I'm not advocating dumbing the game down to reach a wider audience, but I think there is a very good reason only the most hardcore TQ addicts would ever make it that far.

[ASYLUM101]

Lol, Medierra, I feel the same way when I hit act3. I can't stand that forest place, it just SUCKS. Arcane Sanctuary... I like it. I like the chaotic feel of that place.

[yerkyerk]

The main drag in D2 - I found the jail and cellar levels in Act 1 a complete turn-off. 5-6 huge areas, looking very similar, no variation and no way to know where you should go next.
The jungle at least looked pretty and had funny-looking enemies.

For TQ, these drags seemed to be less. The environment looked better and there was a bigger variety in enemies. The only thing I really hated going through in TQ were the minoan labyrinths. I guess I'm not too big a fan of indoor area's..

[Renevent]

10 hours sounds pretty short...but yeah...agree with your main assessment. Some of the areas in TQ could have been condensed or shortened. It's not a s bad as DII, but there were a few areas I didn't look forward too. Like yerkyerk already mentioned, the labyrinth wasn't my favorite area. Also, the swamp in act IV and I really dreaded going through the tower of judgement. I felt Act 3 drags on too much too in general especially around the forested areas.

But let me also give an idea of the areas I liked most...

-Area outside medusa

-Athenian battle grounds

-Area in Act IV that's between dark and light (what a really cool effect)

-Climbing the mountain in Act 3 (great sense of getting higher in elevation)

[eisprinzessin]

I think TQ has a lot of meaningless fighting, which can get boring. A better level design would help here ... regardless of the world's size.

Originally Posted by Betrayer

When I'm less than half way through TQ I find myself pining for a new build that I want to try out, but I want to finish the game at least.

I feel the same. Throwing in some ideas:
- Let the world grow from normal to epic and from epic to legendary mode. Unlock some dungeons or even whole areas on higher levels only.
- Make side quests for epic and legendary mode only.
- Even the main quest could expand from mode to mode.