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  • #16
    Yes, after people heard we were working on Grim Dawn, I received a lot of emails asking if there was a way to donate.

    Back when we started, crowd funding hadn't really take off and I hadn't even heard of it. I didn't believe that very many people would actually contribute.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by medierra View Post

      Back when we started, crowd funding hadn't really take off and I hadn't even heard of it. I didn't believe that very many people would actually contribute.
      I don't think it would have worked very well then either, however you really should strike while the iron is hot and before the initial fatigue kicks in. As with all new revenue streams there will soon be a glut as everyone tries to get a slice of the pie and it will take a while for things to settle back to being functional.
      After Void(null) left there was basically no point anymore...

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      • #18
        2012 has been very surprising for me so far. I had a nice, neat list of the upcoming games I was interested in ready to go. I thought I had it all worked out. I was going to avoid the big publishers as much as possible (smaller publishers I'm not adverse too, yet) and try to spend my money wisely.

        Then, Kickstarter happened. All these promises of sequels to games I used to love. Concepts I thought were dead are coming to life. My budget has had to be readjusted to fund games I don't expect to even be able to play for years.

        For the most part, I am being very conservative with the kickstarter motion. I am backing several titles, but for the most part, I am backing at the minimal level to get the game (guess I'm a bottom feeder). With almost nothing to go on with some of these titles, I just can't allow myself to contribute more based on nostalgia alone. Physical items offered by a lot of these kickstarter donations tend to get lost/stolen by my kids at the house, so they don't offer much value.

        I am also only backing games that are either in development and well planned, or games that are being pitched by experienced designers I know about. If I don't trust the person selling the product based on their name alone, they damn well better have a good product to show. Case in point is the Banner Saga. I've never heard of these guys prior to March. Now I'm backing their project to the tune of $50 to secure their "trilogy". They have done a lot of interviews, have shown they have done quite a bit of design and planning, and they have also demonstrated sections of the game that align with my desires. Perhaps I'll regret the decision at some point, but I've tried my best to make a wise decision given the facts.

        To those folks pledging $100 or more to kickstarter, I salute you. I'm not brave enough. Perhaps if I was single, had no other games I was interested in this year, or had much more disposable income, I would do the same. The fact that the wait/payoff is so far out in the future is also a factor.

        EDIT: Just read medierra's mention of Banner Saga above. I was happy to hear him mention it as those are my thoughts exactly. There is a reason they are getting my full support, despite the fact that they are relatively unknown.
        Last edited by Kardiophylax; 04-06-2012, 07:21 PM.

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        • #19
          void, i really don't get how this could be some short-lived affair/a train to catch before it left. people can take part according to their (financial) abilities, are dedicated/passionate and do their research. it's a small platform that only works (and did so for quite some time) considerabely different from the usual capitalistic bullshit (and no, i won't name the buzzwords) even when it only works within its frame and for a limited range of projects.

          and for all we know questionable stuff comes under immediate scrutiny - and when shit happens it will damage the reputation of the project, not kickstarter/crowdfunding as a whole, no? if shit ever were to really hit the fan, kickstarter might as well be adjusted to unfamiliar misuse in no time (it is a company after all). that said, med, i guess i can see where your cynical view could come from, just please don't give in to that or you will lose the internal struggle against your evil half.

          errrr, in short, i'm with roros and kario on this one.
          Last edited by durruti; 04-08-2012, 06:16 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by durruti View Post
            void, i really don't get how this could be some short-lived affair/a train to catch before it left. people can take part according to their (financial) abilities, are dedicated/passionate and do their research. it's a small platform that only works (and did so for quite some time) considerabely different from the usual capitalistic bullshit (and no, i won't name the buzzwords) even when it only works within its frame and for a limited range of projects.
            You are entirely missing what I am saying. I am not saying crowd funding will be a short lived affair, I am saying there is soon to be a glut of game developers turning to crowd funding and we will begin to see consumer fatigue. It will then take a while for crowd funding to find its natural flow as a revenue stream.

            Its a concept within marketing. You don't compete against your competitors, instead you find an uncontested market space. It's called The Blue Ocean Strategy and this is one of the contributing factor to the large figures we are seeing with current Kickstarter game development projects from the big names in the industry.

            Think of it like Guitar Hero. Guitar hero was fantastic and there was nothing to challenge it. It was new, unique, Activision could sell a bunch of high price plastic toys along with a high price video game. They made a few squeals and made a ton of money. Then came DJ Hero, Band Hero, Guitar gero Aerosmith/80's/Metallica/Green Day/My Little Pony, and the competitors came out with Rock Band and there were a ton of low quality spin offs. The market became so flooded Activision killed their own franchise. After a break, Activision and the others are at it again, but releasing a slow stream of music games rather than a new one with song packs every 3 weeks.

            The exact same thing will happen to crowd funding. We are going to see a flood of big budget crowd funded games hit Kickstarter and we will see consumer fatigue and a crowded market space. The more projects, the more consumer fatigue the less chance a new project will see the massive success of Tim Schafer and InXile. However while the market space is relatively untapped their is huge potential for a large and quick injection of revenue. The longer Crate waits the less chance they have of a runaway success and walking away with fat sacks of cash. That's not to say if Crate were to wait 6 months that their Kickstarter wouldn't be a success, it simply means it will be harder and less likely that they will see similar results as the current projects that have people chomping at the bit at the idea of crowd funding.
            Last edited by Void(null); 04-08-2012, 11:28 PM.
            After Void(null) left there was basically no point anymore...

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            • #21
              Articulated well.
              It may also be surprising to know that some players prefer different play-styles.
              It is not censorship, it is called Whack a mole.
              I guess it only makes sense for Ghosts'n Goblins to go online. I mean, online is the current realm of people running around in their underwear, and Ghosts'n Goblins pretty much invented running around in your underwear.

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              • #22
                I wouldn't care it is all about supply and demand with marketing. There will always be buyers and sellers(mostly buyers).

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Seronx View Post
                  I wouldn't care it is all about supply and demand with marketing. There will always be buyers and sellers(mostly buyers).
                  If that were true, Iron Lore, Troika and Bullfrog would still be with us.
                  After Void(null) left there was basically no point anymore...

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                  • #24
                    interesting article I found about kickstarter and it lists some of the projects that are getting funded, worth a read

                    Classic Game Developers Flocking to Kickstarter to Avoid Publishers
                    http://www.lockergnome.com/news/2012...id-publishers/

                    so maybe if classic games can be remade without publishers, then there is a bright future ahead, yes publishers make and want lots of money, but they have lost their way when it comes to funding a small amount of titles now, or should I say, genres, even though Legend of Grimrock wasn't KS funded, it shows that it has hit No 1 seller on both steam and GOG that is a hige demand for old classic games that publisher aren't interested in anymore

                    so yeah, the above KS funded games, if they are successful, I hope will start something really good, I hope this trend continues, it needs to to get more older classic types of games out of the door, the more games that can be made without publisher funding / influence the better, but anyway the article is an interesting read
                    Legendary key holder since 20/12/2010

                    Co-op Digital Deluxe Bundle supporter I hope GD is a success

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                    • #25
                      The problem has never been that the money "wasn't there". The problem has always been accessing that resource reliably and effectively. Hell, the money IS there to even make AAA game like Mass Effect(s). You need to look no further than the amount of money the PUBLISHER makes vs what the development studio actually earns from it.

                      Take a step back for a moment and imagine this.

                      The big-guys at...let's say Bioware. They all leave EA, form their own studio, use their own money to buy the rights to Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights and all the other IPs that Bioware is famous for.

                      Who wouldn't poney up $35-40 bucks to crowd fund a full on return to Baldur's Gate? I would. I'd wager knowing who's behind it, most of the folks here on these boards would as well. How about a party-based isometric version of Mass Effect (the whole trilogy in one game)? $50? Take my money...

                      What's been the fence keeping "big games" out of being fan-funded has been the initial overhead. It costs a LOT of money to get a "big game" going and keep it running for the entire production timeline. Sure, I'd bet it cost $200m or more to develop Mass Effect 2. It also turned a profit within a few weeks or so. And keep in mind, its turning a profit AFTER you include the overhead cost of the Publisher as well, not just the cost of the actual development. Clearly, there was NO issue with the actual money available to "fund" a big project.

                      The problem is getting your customers to part with their money upfront before you ship the product. How do you reach all of your potential customer base in a reasonable span of time to put together the kinds of cash flow necessary? Kickstarter has shown that people can and are willing to pay in advance, and in some cases pay far more than the actual developer ever sees on a per-customer basis as well (look at some of the top-end door prizes for Wasteland, Shadowrun, or Banner Saga and you'll notice that they've moved quite a few of those). I think Kickstarter is...an opening, the tiny of sliver light off in the distance. It's not the avenue, but it may very well pave the way for something bigger and more solid and reliable for really big-name games to get a new lease on life away from the stagnating, stifling, and strangling influence of the dinosaur publishing model.

                      And the problems that took down Ironlore have somewhat been lessened in the new DLC era. Imagine where Titan Quest would be today had DLC been more widespread back then? Okay...you haven't found a backer for "the next project" but while you're waiting and looking, your staff are busy building and selling additional content for your other products....instead of burning a lot of capital from one day to the next as you wait (well, maybe not "instead" but rather it could/would severely reduce the impact).

                      And then when the "Big-time Kickstarter" funds roll over you're off on the next big project.
                      Last edited by LostSoul; 04-12-2012, 07:28 PM.

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                      • #26
                        but i explicitly stated that the whole crowdfunding works differently from our current market economy - especially in light of its resorting to simplified explanations and observations regarding its own mechanisms. try being more creative with predictions (and for that see john cleese...)

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                        • #27
                          Then there's projects like this which get successfully funded in just a few days.

                          While attacking the author in the way they do is out of line, I'm still not sure what to think of such a project getting backing. All the power to him I guess, but I'd be surprised if there's not some form of drama at some stage.

                          http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...-classic-desig
                          Praise the sun!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Roros View Post
                            Then there's projects like this which get successfully funded in just a few days.

                            While attacking the author in the way they do is out of line, I'm still not sure what to think of such a project getting backing. All the power to him I guess, but I'd be surprised if there's not some form of drama at some stage.

                            http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...-classic-desig
                            Omg i had quiet a laugh reading this one. But i cried thinking of the people that funded this garbage!
                            Legendary order and digital deluxe edition

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