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  • #16
    Read through that post now. I see that potion usage is pretty much set in stone so I would have to say:

    I agree with auto potion pickup!

    If not, then how about a hotkey area pick-up ala S2.
    AMD Phenom X4 975 3.6//ASUS M3A78-T//8GB DDR2-1066 RAM//GTX 660//Asus Xonar D2X//Crucial C300 64GB SSD//Windows 7 x64//Alpha Tester

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    • #17
      Originally posted by cel View Post
      Here's a question: If monsters were carrying potions, why aren't they using them? If they can't, why are they carrying them around in the first place - they're not carrying pine cones around for fun either.
      Monsters do not drink the potions because they have no programming that would enable them to do so. We haven't given them this functionality because it would be counter productive to our goal of supplying potions to the player. The monsters carry the potions and not pine cones because designers configure the loot tables on monsters to drop potions but have not done so for pine cones since no such item exists in the game.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by medierra View Post
        We haven't given them this functionality because it would be counter productive to our goal of supplying potions to the player.
        Can we by this assume that potions won't be as readily available through unlimited supply in shops as in TQ?
        Last edited by medierra; 04-02-2010, 03:55 AM. Reason: Deleted all of the useless bullshit

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Renevent View Post
          I thought it was actually 99?
          I believe I did actually say 99 at some point - maybe on the titanquest.net boards. Right now they are set to 50 but perhaps I will change them to 99. The number isn't set in stone but it will almost certainly be much higher than TQ. I think 50 is probably the minimum.

          There will only be one type /size of health and energy potion.

          It isn't actually definite that we will have potions but I'm in no rush to pull them out. We have introduced other mechanics that should vastly reduce the need for potion chugging. Potions also will have a significantly longer cool-down and will be much more expensive.

          I think the D3 health orb system sounds risky and it isn't something that I'd be inclined to try unless we had more time and money to thoroughly test it - like say, if we were Blizzard. ; )

          I have actually been considering doing something similar to that for a long time but it was never intended to replace potions. I had just thought that perhaps it would be interesting to replace the fixed shrines with "power-ups". Basically it would be just like shrines but without the actual shrine. Seems more random and fun.

          I also want to make more of an effort to ensure that players have the support of better healing and energy regen capabilities through their skill classes.

          So, we are doing some things to change the dynamic of how health / energy are recovered. Potions are remaining in place as sort of a fail-safe though.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by cel View Post
            How do we know that?
            If you look at the enemy team settings in the database you can see that no monsters in TQ are configured to be the enemies of any other monster race.

            This won't be the case in GD where you may actually come across different monster races fighting one another.

            Originally posted by cel View Post
            I have to agree that the well named "extra-HP-in-a-jar" concept is getting a little old (comparable to having only skills that deal direct damage instead of having complicated effects, as the relation between a goal and how to get to it is retardedly simple in both cases, too simple to be considered a fun aspect).
            To me it seems like the D3 system offers even less in the way of interesting decision-making. In that system, as I understand it, there isn't even an element of resource management. Healing orbs drop randomly and you have to use them on the spot or you loose them. There is no way to store them for later and make a strategic decision on when to use them.

            I think the problem with potions in TQ was more a matter of balance than the functionality of the potions needing to be radically altered.

            Originally posted by cel View Post
            Something that comes to mind with 5 seconds of thinking would be to increase potion cooldowns and making players regenerations speeds a lot higher when "out of combat", promoting a more tactical approach in monster encounters.
            Glad you like that option - it is essentially what I originally discussed with regard to potions on the TQ.net forum.

            There is accelerated health regen that kicks in if you haven't be damaged for X seconds. I think the cooldown on potions is currently 15 seconds.

            In TQ potions were a crutch for poorly balanced melee combat. Players had to constantly chug them to stay alive and keep fighting. I believe the new role of potions should be as an emergency measure that allows people to survive close-calls in combat or endure inescapable situations such as entrapment until they can break free.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by cel View Post
              Can we by this assume that potions won't be as readily available through unlimited supply in shops as in TQ?
              I've considered making the supply limited or possibly even not having them for sale. I've also thought about allowing players to create potions from ingredient drops. In that case there would be a decision to make potions vs. using the ingredients to make other useful things like item upgrades. If they remain on merchants, they will be quite expensive.

              I'm not depending on rarity to limit people's potion use though. That will primarily come in the form of a long cool-down.

              While I'm not hot on the healing-orb system as a replacement for health potions, I do like the way health potions are balanced in WoW. I do actually like the idea of random instant-use drops like healing orbs and shrine-like buffs, just not as the sole means of healing. Not without knowing I had a lot of time to test it...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by medierra View Post
                If you look at the enemy team settings in the database you can see that no monsters in TQ are configured to be the enemies of any other monster race.

                This won't be the case in GD where you may actually come across different monster races fighting one another.
                AWESOME. This has no direct effect on the gameplay, but it's just awesome sounding.

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                • #23
                  Mmmm, having potions overly limited will make solo playing most classes harder - nature will suddenly be very popular - or making people sit idly while they wait for HP/MP to regenerate, which will be boring as anything. Or town trips.

                  If you are keen on having pots limited could we have some sort of "Rest" thing like NWN (full HP/MP regen over a short time providing no enemies within a reasonable radius and no combat in the last 15 seconds or so), or at least boosted regen when idle?


                  Having some other sort of not pot based healing method doesn't really change much, just makes things more complicated.

                  How about pots for sale, just always at least a level below what the drops are (lesser pots for sale when you are using/needing normals)? Low level pots are a nuisance at best in fights, as they hit the CD but don't give enough HP to keep you alive, but still can be used in between. Also, the price can be adjusted to make them less of an option.



                  *edit* Oh, how about the soul shrine/pool respawn points heal you when you stand next to them? If they are scattered as frequently as they are now that would be ok. Far enough apart to make heal trips annoying, but not so far as it makes glass cannon classes annoying to play. Also, it would make some sort of sense when you think about what they do - restore you from 0hp to full when you die...
                  Last edited by Agouti; 04-02-2010, 07:24 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Agouti View Post
                    Mmmm, having potions overly limited will make solo playing most classes harder - nature will suddenly be very popular - or making people sit idly while they wait for HP/MP to regenerate, which will be boring as anything. Or town trips.

                    If you are keen on having pots limited could we have some sort of "Rest" thing like NWN (full HP/MP regen over a short time providing no enemies within a reasonable radius and no combat in the last 15 seconds or so), or at least boosted regen when idle?
                    Right now you go into fast-regen if you haven't been damaged in 3 seconds. It takes about 5-6 seconds to go from 1 to 100% health.

                    It is essentially just the same as being able to chug potions without a timer except that you can't do it while you're being hit (which I think makes the combat a little more interesting than standing still in the middle of a group of enemies pounding potions) and you don't have to chug an actual potion.

                    I think the greatest benefit is that it eliminates all those times between groups of enemies where you have to down a potion. If you survive an encounter you just start running to the next one and by the time you get there, you're usually back to full health.

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                    • #25
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                      • #26
                        Potions management is very crucial to overall feels in ARPG.

                        - Fast regen after without damages for 3 seconds.
                        - Fast regen 1%-100% in 5 or 6 seconds.
                        - Crafting potions from ingredients, which player have to make decision to use ingredients for potions or for crafting other items.
                        - Item will not available at merchant. If it is (available), it will be very limited and expensive. No expensive price could actually make potion expensive if money are redundant but it will works if potions is limited. Btw, lets not make expensive 'ridiculous'.
                        - Voted for auto-pickup especially if it is stackable in large bunch (Better have 99 than 50) and potions is scarce.
                        - Not sure if I'm agree with single potion type. I think it remove the magic sense of getting better potion (larger potion).
                        - Again, if there are variety of potion type, auto-pickup should only pick-up if there is at least one in the inventory. Meaning that, for the first potion, you have to pick it up. The following will be automated.
                        - Hotkey (or disable/enable option) for auto-pickup would satisfies everyone.

                        After all, this mechanic will have flaw somewhere but sometimes system flaws are made intentionally. If everything going so smoothly, no intense moment or challange will be there.

                        Anyways, undesired flaws will be recognize later in alpha and beta stages so it can be tuned up and improved. There is always patch after release too. But of course, release should be out in great condition.
                        Last edited by alexei; 04-02-2010, 11:16 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by medierra View Post
                          To me it seems like the D3 system offers even less in the way of interesting decision-making. In that system, as I understand it, there isn't even an element of resource management. Healing orbs drop randomly and you have to use them on the spot or you loose them. There is no way to store them for later and make a strategic decision on when to use them.
                          In Diablo 3 Health potions still exist, they haven't gone away. They simply have a long cool-down on them. They are like the "Oh crap, no orbs!" type of item.

                          Also, health orbs can be saved, they don't disappear right away, you're allowed to save them for the current "mini-area" you're in, and they only disappear when you go roughly 2 screens away. So the player isn't constantly back-tracking to try and get HP.

                          Also, a lot of skills in Diablo 3 have been developed to take advantage of having an over-flow effect of health (if you use a health orb with 100% HP) then you get a buff benefit with certain skills. Or simply skills that buff the player when they use a health orb.

                          Health orbs regenerate the HP of the player and his allies.

                          I think this is just Blizzard's solution to, rather then, potion chugging, leeching life, or regenerating it fast (which can cause a player low on health to run away) simply rewarding the player for killing things, and telling them that, being damaged is bad. So, Blizzard is giveing their players good defensive skills, then they'll be able to avoid a lot of damage. You need good defensive skills if you can't guarantee the player will always have health recovery.

                          But health potions are still in D3, they haven't been removed, and even buff potions now exist.

                          I just wanted to clarify that for you Medierra.

                          Also, anything to reduce potion chugging (of all kinds) and increase strategic decisions, I'm all for.

                          I like the idea of long cool-downs on potions (even mana potions). I like the idea of not having potions for sale, for sure, potions should be cool to find, not a spammy unlimited item.
                          Last edited by Scryer; 04-02-2010, 05:09 PM.
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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by medierra View Post
                            Right now you go into fast-regen if you haven't been damaged in 3 seconds. It takes about 5-6 seconds to go from 1 to 100% health.
                            This sounds a little fast, considering situations where you simply dodge a bigger nuke used by the boss you will almost trigger this, possibly making the player get a "oh might as well" feeling whenever he had to do so, not to mention brittle ranged classes that normally easily go for longer periods of time without taking damage, especially when fighting slow/ranged bosses.

                            Have you considered making the regen only activate when there are no monsters chasing you or just lenghtening the times when there are?

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                            • #29
                              I think it would be cool if health potions had their own item slot, so you couldn't stack beyond say 99 potions. It would also save the player an item slot, and probably be easier to handle.

                              If health potions only drop from enemies, and they always have a low chance to drop, it would make it a pretty exciting event to see them drop.

                              So, even if you can stack health potions to 99, it would still be pretty cool to see them drop if they were rare. Which they should be rare, even off of unique enemies, etc. This would have the benefit of saving the player from using up item slots for potion stacks, and it would make health potions awesome to see.

                              Also - it would, somewhat, increase health management if you couldn't have unlimited potions. Even with a long (say 30 second to minute) cool-down, limiting potions a little more wouldn't hurt much, who's going to use 99 health potions in 99 minutes, or even 50 minutes, without finding more potions?
                              Last edited by Scryer; 04-02-2010, 05:08 PM.
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                              • #30
                                As far as the auto pickup for potions is concerned, it really doesn't matter to me, in all honesty. I'm good with what ever y'all decide to do.
                                -JMD

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