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  • #61
    Originally posted by ASYLUM101 View Post
    No? Create a TQIT map where hundreds of monsters appear on screen and vanish on death, tell me how much lag you get then.
    I had never lag in TQIT, but besides of that it should not be hard to give the user the option to choose wheather the corpses will vanish or not.


    • #62
      Originally posted by yerkyerk View Post
      Congratulations on the vid! It looks awesome. I'm not sure where you guys are at this stage, but it looks utterly amazing for an alpha version..

      I so want to play the game right NAO!!!

      Despite the video being much better than I anticipated, there's some small points of critic though, but I've always got something to bitch about. It's my nature, feel free to hate me for it
      - I can't believe I'm saying this, but... The gore might be a bit too overdone at times. At 0:29 the hero starts gibbing every monster he hits. It's cool to see monsters splattering pieces of themselves all over the place, but when you can do it with every hit I believe it becomes a bit too much and it isn't special anymore. It should imho be saved for special occasions (destructive skills, killing monsters with crits - or when the hero is overpowered).
      - The fiery aura is too fierce.. should be more subtle, imho
      - disappearing corpses and stains - aww....?
      The fiery aura is a soldier skill called "fighting spirit" (not sure I like the same yet) and it activates for a short duration giving a massive boost to physical damage and offensive ability. So, what you're seeing at 0:29 is a ton of critical hits due to fighting spirit. I'm also using blade arc a lot, which also has a damage modifier but costs a lot of energy to use successively like that.

      Enemies are set up to gib when your killing hit does over X% of their total health in damage. So, when you're fighting a lot of zombies, you'll tend to see a lot more gibbing.

      We have a lot more going on graphically than TQ with all the burn and spatter decals, gib physics, weather, destructibles, etc. We also tend to have battles with more enemies, so having all the bodies lying around could get really ugly for performance.


      • #63
        Great clip . Absolutely loved the use of colours and music!
        Only thing I felt missing was some sort of feeling of speed / power when
        the character used Blitz (charge) @ the start of the clip.

        Thanks Crate! Can't wait for the alpha ;>.


        • #64
          I, for one, appreciate the massive amount of gore. Now, I really want to buy this game but I'd prefer not to deal with any payment agent other than PayPal, which I assume will not be available until a release date is established... *sigh*
          Proud Member of the Patriotic Grim Dawn Criticism Club


          • #65
            Originally posted by medierra View Post
            Enemies are set up to gib when your killing hit does over X% of their total health in damage. So, when you're fighting a lot of zombies, you'll tend to see a lot more gibbing.

            We have a lot more going on graphically than TQ with all the burn and spatter decals, gib physics, weather, destructibles, etc. We also tend to have battles with more enemies, so having all the bodies lying around could get really ugly for performance.
            I'm actually perfectly fine with that method of gibbing.
            Just seemed a bit weird, suddenly all those chunks of meat flying around. Than again, I might actually prefer that if I play the game myself and activate my ownage skill

            How about a slider to set a timer for body evaporation? Pretty please? Pretty please with sugar on top?


            • #66
              Originally posted by gdansk View Post
              I, for one, appreciate the massive amount of gore. Now, I really want to buy this game but I'd prefer not to deal with any payment agent other than PayPal, which I assume will not be available until a release date is established... *sigh*
              Don't count on ever being able to buy Grim Dawn with PayPal. See this post for why.

              Our current payment provider is a real bank and therefore an order of magnitude safer than using PayPal.


              • #67
                Originally posted by yerkyerk View Post

                How about a slider to set a timer for body evaporation? Pretty please? Pretty please with sugar on top?


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Domme View Post
                  I had never lag in TQIT, but besides of that it should not be hard to give the user the option to choose wheather the corpses will vanish or not.
                  Then you never played with XMAX or Achilles Mod.

                  After Void(null) left there was basically no point anymore...


                  • #69
                    Rock Paper Shotgun talking about Grim Dawn!



                    • #70
                      Originally posted by ASYLUM101 View Post
                      Anyone notice the friendly AI in the beginning? Speaking of which - what's that double upwards arrow on one of the AI guys? Buff? Level up?
                      The NPC guard got within range of the player's "field command" aura. The icon is supposed to be chevrons denoting military rank.

                      Also - I noticed some zombies wearing vests and things (mostly a few greens and blue zombies), is that part of the WYSIWYG system? I'm assuming yes cause I can't imagine texturing the same zombie several times just to add a piece of equipment. (first one appears @22secs)
                      We added it currently as undroppable equipment just to give the zombies some visual variety. We want to later create either player versions or make it drop as some kind of crafting resource like "scraps".

                      Player grunts at 22 seconds, nearby enemies fall to the ground, yet get up later. Knockdown is in the game now?! YES. (can we get the name of the skill?)
                      Yes, you can knock down live enemies now and have them get back up. If the skill has more force, like a grenado, you can actually send them flying across the screen and have them get back up.

                      Heh, that skill is a little bit of a hack-job. It was originally a battle shout type skill that debuffed enemies but then I felt like it would be cool to really show off the ability to knock down live enemies and have them get back up, so I added knockdown to it. I have a similar skill in another mastery but hey, you can only fit 2 masteries per char, so battle shout got turned into a knockdown skill. Who knows, maybe I'll leave it that way. It is certainly useful.

                      Green zombie - hazardous to the environment? Acidic puke @24 secs?
                      Poison puke

                      25 seconds - blue zombie hits player, player gets 2 new aura effects - the huge glowy fiery one, and a snowflake one. Slow effect/cold damage on hit from blue zombie?! (he does attack slower, pay attention guys)
                      Good catch. I was afraid after watching the video over and over that people might think it was lag or something. Yes, the blue zombies, "cold ones", have various cold / freeze related abilities. They have a cold retaliation buff, their hits slow you and do cold damage and they also have a small chance to freeze you. They're really slow but they're actually one of the most dangerous enemies for melee chars to fight right now.

                      30 seconds - said blue zombie with armor gibs and drops an enormous, wicked looking sword.
                      Yep. We have kind of a bastardized loot system that is part WYSIWYG and part random. I think it provides sort of the best of both worlds. I mean, to me, the most important part of WYSIWYG is that when enemies have a badass looking piece of equipment, you can get it and that is still the case. However, when they're just wearing crappy rags, there is no need for them to drop 100% of the time. On the other hand, in TQ it was hard to provide good coverage of all loot types in all areas of the game because certain enemies only used certain types of gear. It also took a little of the slot-machine aspect out of loot because the drops were sometimes overly predictable. So, sometimes enemies can also drop things that they don't have equipped. We try to do this in a way that isn't too absurd. Like, insect swarms won't be dropping armor and weapons. Zombies though, have a small chance to drop a variety of human equipment. It is a bit of an abstraction but one that I don't think is too implausible and benefits the game more than it detracts from it. So yeah, sometimes badass swords can pop out of zombies... I mean who knows, maybe it was... uhh... "inside him?"

                      1:01 - massive gazer appears. This tells us we have champion gazers in addition to regular ones! COOL.
                      You are correct sir! Wait till you see the hero ones

                      1:19 - player drinks a potion. No animation, but he steps back from battle and begins glowing with red + marks. Either an HP pot, or a spell with no animation, no sound, and no visual effect (aside from the red things)
                      No potions were drunk in the making of this video. Potions are for pussies! That's my "will to live" skill that activates on low health. It provides some instant healing and then gives you damage absorption for a brief period. It has a long cooldown though, so once it goes off, you have to start being more careful. It is definitely a life-saver when you're trying to record video with the UI turned off such that you can't see your health.

                      @Medierra or Rhis, is the entire game going to be setup this way? I mean, TONS of mobs, nice variety, (green,blue,plain zombies, super mutants, mega mutants, 2 gazer types and more) and several heroes in between? It looks like a lesser version of xmax, but with more guys and guys that don't get 1shotted.
                      Yes, mostly. We mix it up a bit, sometimes you're fighting smaller groups of harder enemies. Like with rift hounds and raptors you typically are only fighting 3-6 of them at a time but they're NASTY. The aetherial corruptions and grobles / dranghouls tend to occur in large numbers like you see in the video. The video is actually even toned down a bit in terms of enemy numbers just because capturing video while playing the game on max settings is rough on performance. One o the reason though that we can have so many enemies is that the zombies are set up with ambush proxies that will spawn a configurable number and then respawn more once the zombie population drops below a set min threshhold. So the ambush keeps adding zombie to the fight until it gets tapped out.

                      PS: vanishing corpse haters - enjoy your persistent corpses that lag your game in TQIT. I believe this is a necessary step to minimize lag and ensure we can fight MORE guys on the same screen.
                      Yes, people's complaints about corpse lag in TQ and the larger number of enemies we wanted to have on-screen is what lead us to this decision.

                      PSS to the "huge glowy fiery aura" haters - I THINK that's a passive, not an activate-able aura, because he does NOTHING to activate it unless it's instant cast. I'm guessing medierra almost died and triggered "Will to Live". I'm not fond of the effect myself, just saying I don't think he triggered it. Watch the video, it activates immediately after blue zombie hits him.
                      The orange aura, that I will immediately change after posting this is a passive skill that has a % chance to activate on being hit. It's "fighting spirit" and it is what is allowing me to critical the shit out of the zombies at 0:29

                      Will to live is what causes the little red first-aid symbols and faint white glow.


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by yerkyerk View Post
                        Whereas I don't mind corpses disappearing after two minutes or so, or if they're 5 screens behind, I do think that persisting corpses add to the game. They're not the reason for lag anymore than a tree should be...
                        We don't have 50 trees on-screen at a time and corpses can sometimes be many more draw-calls than a tree. So, yes, they're a much larger drain on performance.

                        We might be able to make them stick around a bit longer though or add in some sort of tech where they only begin to vanish after X number are on the ground in an area.

                        I understand people's desire here, it isn't that we don't think leaving behind a huge pile of bodies is cool but we're working under limitations that don't always allow us to do everything we want. Compromise is the only constant in game development.


                        • #72
                          Love the knockback but would be nice to see the creatures fly a bit quicker. They have too much float in my opinion. Also the rag doll is something that has bothered me in every game that uses it. Can't there be range of motion limitations to certain body parts? Over all, rock on Medierra/Crate.


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Void(null) View Post
                            Then you never played with XMAX or Achilles Mod.

                            I do, with friends on internet and I can't say if the lags is due to the tons of corpses or juste because of "it's internet", however it has never been a real issue for me.

                            Its Ok, I will do whith disappearing corpses.

                            For the drop system : instead of giving a sword in the hand of the zombi, why don't you put one through the chest ? It is a good way to mix WYSIWYG and random drop ^^ Okay I know : there isn't only zombies in the game.
                            Last edited by Caillou; 03-29-2011, 04:38 PM.


                            • #74
                              I am not a very good critic, but here it goes: the game seems so far terribly fun and good. I was already impatient to get my hands on Grim Dawn, now it is going to be harder to wait for the final version!

                              The graphics (whether textures, effects, etc) look really nice, better than what I was expecting from the screenshots. The animations, blood and physics are a big improvement from Titan Quest, and really brings that feeling of being in a battlefield (reminds me more of Diablo 2). The physics system is bringing a lot of fun: not only I am sure it will be used to plan some neat strategies (making a structure falling on top of some moobs?), but seeing those wooden crates, furniture and doors exploding and breaking apart in the middle of the action really brings more chaos and fun to the picture. I also really appreciated to see more moobs than in TQ, which was somewhat of a problem for me that made me install the xmax mods: not enough monsters, not enough action. Problem solved in GD!

                              I am not a sound expert, but everything seemed okay to my ears.

                              It is only now that I realized that we haven't seen anything of the hud, whether on the screenshots or the video, for the life, skills, etc. I have to say I am fan-hud, as long as it doesn't become an ugly thing that covers all of the screen. Nonetheless will there be an option to turn it off for the players who would like to have a "hud free" game?

                              Now, for the criticisms, or should I say "the things that can still be polished until the release", I have noted a couple of "odd physic moments". Such as the destruction of the first door, that didn't fit with the hit from the character: half of the door went down, the rest "exploded" towards the players instead of going inside of the house. I also had the feeling some of the enemies seemed to glide a little bit in the air before crashing down, a little bit like in TQ. I also won't be against more hit animation on the main character, specially if our hero receives a critical hit. Hey, what about even having our hero receiving such a blast that he would fall on the ground and will have to stand up again?...On the other hand it could slow down too much the gameplay.

                              While I am a big fan of the gore aspect of the game, I don't really like two things: first the big cloud of blood that...Well, that indeed look like clouds of particles, instead of an explosion of liquid. Now I have the feeling that could be too hard to implement.
                              The dismemberments were great, except when the enemies were "exploding": I have the feeling it was the same explosion for every single enemy, like in Icewind Dale. When the enemy receives a critical hit, the model is replaced by a bunch of limbs flying all over the place. It is pretty visible at 0:29s. Tell me if I am wrong, but it gave me the impression that many enemies will have the same "explosion animation", with the same limbs flying all over the place (no matter the direction of the hit they received), no matter what their race/size/aspect will be. My idea will be to have the polygons of the enemy detaching, like a main dismemberment, with blood pouring from the cut limbs, but again I have the feeling I might be asking for too much! ^^

                              I realized something was missing until someone mentioned that the bodies were disappearing: personally I was more focus on the blood disappearing rather than the bodies. I am also a big fan of physical bodies never disappearing until you quit the game (I understand that it is more cool, convenient and logic for ghost/wraiths/some demons to disappear when killed, but as far as the other monster goes, well, it brings more chaos to our artistic destruction of killing bad guys : Oh the joys of following my pile of bodies from a rebirth fountain to the place where I bit the dust!), and it never had an impact on my performances, even with a rather poor computer and the xmax mod. In TQ I have a big performance drop when pack of enemies are still alive, or at the moment of death (with all the animations of their dead), but once they are dead and not moving on the ground I never had any performance issue. I have to say though that the body disappearing effect was really well handled and really subtle: I didn't see it at first.
                              Now I understand that removing bodies can allow some machines to handle the game with max graphics, and that some players won't wish to see the ground texture covered with blood and bodies for the rest of their game session. Would it be possible to have an option to allow players to handle that aspect of the game, like two slide bars that will go like "bodies/blood disappearing after 5s, 10s, (...), 1min, (...), 5min, never", or again will it be too hard to implement?

                              I hope I am not sounding rude, I would hate to give the impression I am complaining about everything: really liked the video, but with those little details fixed it would be pure perfection for me!

                              EDIT: many messages were posted in the meantime while I was writing this, including an answer of Medierra about the bodies. Since you guys are working on limitations, I perfectly understand that having bodies staying is the last of your priorities. Focus on what you think will make the game better than it already is, the rest will just be like some cherries on top of the yummy pie.
                              Last edited by Xss; 03-29-2011, 04:38 PM.
                              - Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Ftaghn!
                              - Gesundheit.

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                              • #75
                                Yeah, I hear what you guys are saying about the float on ragdoll - I was thinking the same thing myself the other day but wasn't sure if maybe I was just crazy... or both?

                                Sorry if I missed anyone's questions, there are a lot of posts and it is tough to keep up!

                                Thank you all for your feedback. I did read all the posts, I'm just not sure if responded to them all.

                                Note to self:

                                -Tone down fighting spirit fx
                                -Either beef up battle shout skill / fx to make it appropriate for knockdown or revert it back to a debuff
                                -Look into increasing body duration
                                -Town down gazer frenzy aura fx
                                -Mull over other ideas