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  • Items: 3 modifiers?

    Now, I'm not sure if it's too late in the development process to ask about this or not, but seeing as it's still pre-alpha, I figured I'd give it a shot.

    I think something that would be really cool to see in this game and would make it stand out from other games of this sort on the market would be to allow items to have three modifiers, i.e. "Hale Raspacious Mace of Thunder" would give strength, health, lifesteal, and lightning damage, based on TQ's system. This could mean mountains more combinations and variety, and allow for some very powerful non-uniques, perhaps comparable to uniques of their same level, so that more people are using a wider range of cool randomized items that no one else is likely to have, not just the same incredibly buff uniques for 10+levels. Thoughts or comments about this?

    Also, it always warms my nerdy heart to see an item with a name like "Stormcaller's Bactrian Claw of Reckless Power". The more ludicrously long the name, the better!
    30
    Yes, this would add more variety and uniqueness to GD!
    23.33%
    7
    Sounds decent, but modifiers may need some reworking to avoid balancing issues.
    20.00%
    6
    Perhaps, but make them rarer to prevent a flood of powerful combinations right off the bat.
    46.67%
    14
    No, the two-modifier system found in any old RPG is good enough for me.
    10.00%
    3
    Last edited by FlapJacks; 05-04-2012, 02:28 AM. Reason: Just something I thought of.

  • #2
    Certainly like this idea

    Comment


    • #3
      I've gone with options 2 and 3. It has the potential to be equally awesome and messy which is where my reluctance stems from. In my mind, the best way to do this would be to continue with TQ's method of doing this.

      If I remember correctly, modifiers were split into prefixes and suffixes so a particular modifier would only appear at the front or end of an item name. In this situation, I would imagine having a set of "third affixes" which is exclusive from the prefix and suffix sets would be the cleanest and easiest way to balance this.
      My Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/klo0ga

      Comment


      • #4
        Maybe the easiest way to do something like this would be to make the new modifier always be a possessive adjective? (Forgive me if this isn't the right term.) i.e. "Mordiggian's Bloody Shortsword of Pirating", making it so that the second suffix can't ever be possessive at the same time, in order to avoid awkward names with multiple possessives.

        Anything else constant would work pretty easily, but this is just the first thing that came to mind.

        Comment


        • #5
          Not more than single-affixed?

          Yeah, naming could be tricky. But wouldn't that imbalance the game? A triple-affixed item would outshine any zero-/single-affixed item. And you had to make every affix a bit weaker to avoid. medierra argued similarly, when he was asked to allow more but two rings.

          When I compiled Armor and shield and Affixes it occurred to me, that GD might only have up to one affix per item. GD has four additional item slots (pauldrons, belt, pants and medal) - so that it might be necessary to discontinue double affixed items for better balancing.

          I'm sure that I'm wrong here - but I'm curious. At the end of the day the TQ system has worked well and changing it only eats up resources. Time is better spent on coming up with more original affixes for GD.

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't understand the point of this. If an item that generates randomly 1-2 affix/suffix mods it is of a certain quality. (uncommon) If an item had 3 or more randomly generated affix/suffix mods, it is also of a certain quality (rare). Item quality was a way of telling you what sort of stats you can expect on an item. If an uncommon were to generate 3 mods, it wouldn't be uncommon, it would be rare, which it already is if you use the existing system. Instead of that 3 mod item being classified as uncommon you may as well make it drop as a rare to avoid confusion of quality.

            Now, TQ handled things a bit differently than Diablo 2. There was an additional level between magic(yellow) in TQ or magic (blue) in D2 and rare (blue) in TQ or rare (yellow) in D2. This was greens. confusingly, greens could be one of 2 things; either a powerful magic item with either 1 or 2 mods EXCEPT that the mods available to choose from contained multiple attributes. OR they could be monster-specific drops which is an item with preset stats that only drops from a certain type of monster.

            In the first case of greens in TQ, you essentially have the 3 (or more) mod item. I don't know if the loot class system will be identical to TQ. It is probably on the forums somewhere.

            it occurred to me, that GD might only have up to one affix per item. GD has four additional item slots (pauldrons, belt, pants and medal) - so that it might be necessary to discontinue double affixed items for better balancing.
            Not necessarily. But you're likely going to have to make the maximum allowable value for any given stat lower to limit player power. Or you can buff monster stats. Its all about...
            balance.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think you are right - TQ has "quality" modifiers like copper, bronze, iron, silver, gold or ash, oak, etc. But then I think this discussion is about a 4th modifier/affix.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think you are right - TQ has "quality" modifiers like copper, bronze, iron, silver, gold or ash, oak, etc. But then I think this discussion is about a 4th modifier/affix.
                What? I'm sorry I don't understand which part of my post this relates to. all of those adjectives you listed would be either an affix or suffix (a mod, i.e. +2 damage, +15 health) or part of a white item name itself. (i.e. ash bow, copper short sword, silver helm, whatever) I'm not sure how this relates to a 4th affix/suffix.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've argued several times for including more modifiers, but I don't see a reason to stop at three? Do like D2 did with rares (I think 6-8 modifiers), but improve upon it. Give 2 strong modifiers (perhaps slightly weaker than common modifiers) and 4 weaker modifiers. And give tons of different modifiers. It worked in D2.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Because you wrote that items in TQ already have 3 mods. So I took a look and saw these modifiers. If you meant them to be the 3rd mod, then this thread is about another mod, which would be the 4th.

                    Otherwise I am not aware of any items in TQ with more than 1 prefix and 1 suffix - other forum members also value double-affixed items as the best. So, I've been wondering, to what you are referring here:
                    Originally posted by ZorusX View Post
                    In the first case of greens in TQ, you essentially have the 3 (or more) mod item.
                    Last edited by eisprinzessin; 05-04-2012, 11:29 PM. Reason: quote is now linked to correct post

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hmm, It is true that TQ did not have the rares that D2 did. I think in TQ they attempted to replace them with the green class I described above. As well as creating the blue class which were 'weaker' uniques/legendaries, but still had preset stats. Yerk is correct in noting that TQ had no version of diablo 2 rares (I think it was 6 attributes max). I would really like to see these back in Grim Dawn as well.

                      Diablo II's loot system was really spot on, to be honest.

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                      • #12
                        Greens:

                        powerful magic item with either 1 or 2 mods EXCEPT that the mods available to choose from contained multiple attributes.
                        lets do an example. Note that I don't remember what the exact names were in TQ.

                        Sharp longsword of lightning
                        +5 maximum damage (for 'sharp')
                        +1-55 lightning damage (for 'of lightning')

                        vs.

                        Veteran's longsword of health
                        +50 damage (for 'Veteran's')
                        +12% offensive ability (also from 'Veteran's')
                        +88 health

                        Remember that diablo 2 also had this with blue (magic) items! Remember those 3/20/20's!?

                        Fine Small Charm of Vita
                        +3 maximum damage (from 'fine')
                        +20 attack rating (also from 'fine')
                        +20 health (from 'of Vita')

                        You are right though, if we add another prefix, say, we can get 4 attributes!
                        What if we had?

                        Furious Veteran's longsword of health
                        +50 damage (for 'Veteran's')
                        +12% offensive ability (also from 'Veteran's')
                        +88 health (from 'of health')
                        +15% attack speed (from 'furious')

                        But this brings me to the point I was originally trying to make, and which Yerk reiterated: If we're going to already be at 4 attributes on an uncommon, we might as well make these rare "3 affix/suffix" uncommons 'rare' items which have 3-6 randomly generated prefixes or suffixes. Just like in Diablo 2!

                        we might as well call
                        Furious Veteran's longsword of health
                        +50 damage (for 'Veteran's')
                        +12% offensive ability (also from 'Veteran's')
                        +88 health (from 'of health')
                        +15% attack speed (from 'furious')

                        Chaos Ravager
                        +50 damage
                        +12% offensive ability
                        +88 health
                        +15% attack speed
                        Last edited by ZorusX; 05-04-2012, 11:20 PM.

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                        • #13
                          I wonder if adding more, but weaker affixes to items can actually work out.
                          • On the one hand you might get an indifferent mix of bonuses and it does not really matter, which item you equip. From a different context, but it illustrates medierra's approach:
                            Originally posted by medierra View Post
                            I think a distinctive moment where you get a jump in power is much more exciting than a slow, unnoticeable progression.
                          • On the other hand having several, diverse mediocre affixes on your items should usually result in an overall balanced set-up. I remember from TQ, that I often could not equip a powerful item, because I had to unequip another with important resistances. But I think this is mitigated in GD because of the additional equipment slots, so that there are more options to cover your weaknesses.
                          Not having played Diablo I daresay, that GD will be better off with less affixes on items, which can be more distinct and powerful then.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Zorus, if I understand what you're saying correctly, I think it would be better to have random items with 3 or more affixes/suffixes such as "Furious Veteran's longsword of health" rather than naming them, as this might limit the number of possible affix/suffix combinations to the number that they felt like giving names to, and some combinations simply wouldn't exist, because all items that weren't uniques like "Chaos Ravager" would be limited to only two affixes/suffixes, correct?

                            And if all of the three or more-affixed/suffixed items were uniquely named but DIDN'T have fixed stats and effects, I would think it might become a little hard to tell what an item will do by its name, when one Chaos Ravager could give attack speed and vitality damage, while another item of the same name gives mana regen and lightning damage. I haven't played a lot of Diablo II, so I'm not sure if this is how it works on there, but it seems like it could become a bit confusing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              FlapJacks in diablo 2, for rares, the name is not attached to stats at all. everytime a rare drops it generates a random set of attributes (3 to 6) and a random name for the rare.

                              The name is created from two lists. I think each list has 50 or so names. That gives a good amount of possibilities. Also, along with each unique name will be the rare's stats themselves which will be unique.

                              The chances of two identical items is basically nil. Though you might see the same name combo eventually if you play the game enough.

                              I dunno, I'm biased anyways. I loved rares in diablo II (and crafteds). IDing a high level base item or rings and amulets was pretty exciting because you could potentially get something better than any of the uniques (legendaries). I guess I'd just like to see it GD. (Powerful randomly generated items, not IDing)

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