Linux client ?

[MaximB]

Hello !

I am a Linux user and gamer and I would like to know if Grim Dawn will have a native Linux client ?

I'm sure "Crate" will need all the support it can get, and we BUY games.
Also with Linux client it would be easy to create a MacOS client - and those guys also buy (in some cases even 50% of the total sales).

Thanks
Maxim.

[Renevent]

Yup, you guys buy games...all 15 of ya.

I kid, I kid :D

Seriously, I don't know the answer and I'm sure someone from Crate will come by and say something, but from what I know TQ didn't have a native linux client and Grim Dawn is using the same engine/toolset so I doubt it will. From what I understand Titan Quest uses DirectX and .Net...so it would take quite a bit of work and considering the small budget of the game it probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them to do so.

[tcrown]

On point about small developer, etc. It seems that if they went with open source like open GL they could target the game to a lot more platforms, Linux, Mac, PC, etc. and make a lot more money in the long run and attract a lot more players from all platforms. Torchlight is a good example, having a PC and Mac version. Mind you a lot of Mac gamers bought the PC version and used wine to port that into a playable Mac version while waiting for the official mac port to be released.

[Maxz]

I'd also be interested in a Linux client. It'd be kind if we could get a statement from a company representative on this issue.

[medierra]

Well, step one is getting the game out for Windows. After we've jumped that hurdle we can potentially look into support for other OS.

[jiaco]

Check this out.

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=3480

For linux, Wine compatibility is all you need, Silver ain't to bad. Gold is your target.

[jameswhite1979]

I guess I don't mind what platform, but I am starting to get really into Linux and it would be a cool option. However I understand commercials :(

[GermanZombie]

I duel boot Linux, Windows.
Only reason is that I can get alot better performance on games on Windows so that is why it gets to stay on my computer. Although I would love to see someone support linux, but I am sure it isn't exactly cheap so it is really understanable that it doesn't really happen at all.

[Maxz]

Check this out.

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=3480

For linux, Wine compatibility is all you need, Silver ain't to bad. Gold is your target.

Might be true for you, but not for me. For me it's either native or not at all.

[Renevent]

Poor linux folks...lol. I wish Microsoft would release directx to linux for free out of charity :p

[TheRani]

When I used to use Ubuntu for a while there, I couldn't get Wine to work properly with any of the games I wanted to play. None of them were even as good as Silver. I mostly ended up playing a bunch of flash games in Firefox until I switched back to Windows.

[MaximB]

Well, step one is getting the game out for Windows. After we've jumped that hurdle we can potentially look into support for other OS.

Thanks for your replay, but the question is if the engine and the tools you use will allow a rather "painless" Linux port ?

If you use DirectX for example, and not OpenGL - that's a bad sign.
If you use Windows only tools or if the Linux license for those tools is too expensive (compilers or physics engines for example), then it also not too good.

So does a Linux port seems technologically viable ?

Also note that Wine won't cut it for most Linux gamers , they won't buy a non-Linux game.

[Rhis]

The TQ engine uses DirectX. We could implement an OpenGL renderer, but that's a time commitment we can't make at the moment.

[MaximB]

The TQ engine uses DirectX. We could implement an OpenGL renderer, but that's a time commitment we can't make at the moment.

The thing is you are looking for supporters - to preorder the game and support you.

I'll leave for now the hard questions about the game itself.

But if you need supporters, you have to support them.
Many indies who support the Linux users get our support as well.
I can give you lots of articles and proves about it, but if you want our support - then :

A. Commit to a Linux client - or at least make it very likely.
B. Use cross platform tools so you can actually port the game and not say "at this stage it's too expensive".

We support the indies who support us.

Also remember that with a Linux client it's much easier to create a MacOS client - and MacOS gamers also support the indies who support them - Lugaru sold 50% on MacOS for example.

So if you are an indie developer - support the 3 platforms - you need all the clients you can get.

[gdansk]

I use linux and Windows, on a dual boot basis. But I think that for a game like GD (crowdsourced) it is a waste of money and energy to develop a linux port. But he is entirely right about Mac OS X users, they have tons of money to toss around (especially at indie titles). Wolfire Games had a blog post about this a while back..

[jiaco]

Maybe a more tangible question that someone at Crate might answer that is basically the underlying theme of this thread:

Why directx? Is it a better technology? Did you all learn it at school? Is it something that anyone could learn and program for or does it take a msdn subscription and some serious money to write directx code?

I wonder how it is that so many games are using directx...

[gdansk]

Haha, I found that blog post (http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX), it gives an interesting take on the argument. I think it is somewhat biased towards OpenGL, but it is nice to hear more than the 'mainstream' opinion.

[Rhis]

Linux and OSX combined represent something close to a 6% market share, with Windows having the other 94%.

It's a lot of work for very few extra users. Your average PC gamer is running Windows.

[Rhis]

Maybe a more tangible question that someone at Crate might answer that is basically the underlying theme of this thread:

Why directx? Is it a better technology? Did you all learn it at school? Is it something that anyone could learn and program for or does it take a msdn subscription and some serious money to write directx code?

I wonder how it is that so many games are using directx...

It's well supported and it's the API of choice these days for Windows development. I wouldn't say either is necessarily better, they are just different. The article above is good, even if it does have a bit of a Microsoft is evil ring to it.

Maybe Medierra can comment on why Iron Lore went with DirectX, if he knows.

[medierra]

I honestly don't know why ILE chose DirectX since I'm not much of a tech guy and didn't pay too much attention to what the engineers were doing with the engine. I would guess they choose it because it is the Microsoft standard and used in most other games.

We'd like to support all possible operating systems but the reality is that we can only do so much at a time and right now our top priority has to be supporting the core audience on the OS we're currently compatible with and getting this game to release.

[MadWasp]

I honestly don't know why ILE chose DirectX since I'm not much of a tech guy and didn't pay too much attention to what the engineers were doing with the engine. I would guess they choose it because it is the Microsoft standard and used in most other games.

We'd like to support all possible operating systems but the reality is that we can only do so much at a time and right now our top priority has to be supporting the core audience on the OS we're currently compatible with and getting this game to release.

It's as simple as a slap.:D

[MaximB]

Linux and OSX combined represent something close to a 6% market share, with Windows having the other 94%.

It's a lot of work for very few extra users. Your average PC gamer is running Windows.

Despite the desktop market share Linux and MacOS user buy more (relative to their share).
Wolfire games said that 50% of their Lugaru sales where from MacOS and Linux users.
Other indies also report similar data. (read the interviews in my Linux Gaming News blog : http://lgn.linux-hardcore.com/interviews-with-the-developers/ ).

So if you are an indie you cannot miss potential costumers.

[Fishfood]

Despite the desktop market share Linux and MacOS user buy more (relative to their share).
Wolfire games said that 50% of their Lugaru sales where from MacOS and Linux users.
Other indies also report similar data. (read the interviews in my Linux Gaming News blog : http://lgn.linux-hardcore.com/interviews-with-the-developers/ ).

So if you are an indie you cannot miss potential costumers.

Lugaru is a terrible example. I'm paraphrasing a quote from someone else on some other forum I read, but they said it best:

"This game sold more on mac because no windows user would buy a game that looks like that."

Seriously, it looks like something out of a computer science class.

[emccalment]

I'm gonna say those numbers about market share are probably deceiving. For instance, I'm on Windows right now. Not because I want to use Windows, but because I want to play Titan Quest. Literally, the ONLY reason I'm on Windows right now. So, of that 94%, how many people have other OSes they'd rather use, but don't because they're forced into Windows? My hand is up. I'll probably buy and play either way. But I'd rather have it for Linux, or damn fine Wineability.

Someone said something about Silver status for Wine... umm, either I run everything on low, or I can't see the character pixels. Silver's not cuttin it.

Either way, cheers, and can't wait to see what you guys pump out. :D

[TheRani]

I'm gonna say those numbers about market share are probably deceiving. For instance, I'm on Windows right now. Not because I want to use Windows, but because I want to play Titan Quest. Literally, the ONLY reason I'm on Windows right now. So, of that 94%, how many people have other OSes they'd rather use, but don't because they're forced into Windows? My hand is up. I'll probably buy and play either way. But I'd rather have it for Linux, or damn fine Wineability.

Someone said something about Silver status for Wine... umm, either I run everything on low, or I can't see the character pixels. Silver's not cuttin it.

Either way, cheers, and can't wait to see what you guys pump out. :D

If I thought for a second that I could play TQ and other good games on it on it natively, I'd switch back to Ubuntu in a heartbeat. Seriously.

[Z3us]

If I thought for a second that I could play TQ and other good games on it on it natively, I'd switch back to Ubuntu in a heartbeat. Seriously.

More than half of windows users would do the same, myself included.
The problem is game publishers don't make games for linux because theres too little gamers using it, and gamers don't want to switch to linux because there are no good games for it. It's a neverending circle...

[TheRani]

More than half of windows users would do the same, myself included.
The problem is game publishers don't make games for linux because theres too little gamers using it, and gamers don't want to switch to linux because there are no good games for it. It's a neverending circle...

Even if most people switched regardless of game availability, the game publishers probably wouldn't realize it. Since free operating systems have no actual sales figures for them to point to and say, "Look! X numbers of this OS have sold in the past X number of years! There must be a huge installed base of people to whom we can sell games for it!", they wouldn't really know how many people switched. They'd just assume that we were still using whatever commercially sold OS sold lots of copies.