J-RPG's

[Renevent]

What happened to them? No, I don't mean where are they...I mean just wtf happened to them?

I started out playing JRPG's on my NES many years ago and loved so many of them. Final Fantasy, Shinning Force, Phantasy Star, Dragon Warrior, and many others. Then as time progressed (roughly after the SNES) something really went wrong:

The dialog in these games went from slightly silly and/or semi over dramatic, to just verbal diarrhea. I just watched the review for Neir and I can't believe my freaking ears on how stupid some of the dialog is. The last JRPG I played was Final Fantasy X and it was a constant barrage of crying metro-sexual men being so over dramatic about every situation I was cringing through the whole thing.

Then there's the graphic style...no...not the graphics themselves but the style. Androgynous dudes in open chest poofy shirts holding giant crazy looking swords more concerned about hair style then wearing decent armor. Half naked pre-teen girls running around in lingerie. Who is this art style aimed at? Angsty teen boys?

Speaking of characters, you won't find a more ridiculous lineup in any other RPG genre. The sobbing. The crying. The giggles. The over dramatic "realizations". And you can almost guarantee at least one "whacky" side character or party member that is sure to induce nausea with their stupid antics.

Actual gameplay has really seen to take a nose dive too. They have become more linear and less open ended. Their mechanics simplified in preference to style and looks rather than real substance. And the cut scenes...oh man the cut scenes! I thought we were playing games not watching a corny soap opera aimed at anime pedophiles!

Ok...so yes JRPG's were always a bit silly, but the ones of today to me have took a tumble off the deep end. And I morn this :cry:

Would Japanese developers please come back to their senses?!?!?!

Ok...rant done :D

(the opinions expressed in the above rant are the sole personal opinion of Renevent)

[ASYLUM101]

Lol, yeah. I've never really been too much of a JRPG fan, the only ones I played were PSO(which was less RPG more hack and slash), FF7, FF8, FF9, and then FF10. Out of all those FF games, I only beat 8, because the others were just kinda meh, and FF7 I rented so I didn't have time to beat it. FF9 and 10 were really peculiar, like, I didn't even understand half the stuff that was in there, and like you said, the ridiculous styles there just bothered me. 8 wasn't too bad, you had the sporty dork guy with his fist moves, the guy in the trench coat and the cool gunsword, the other gunsword guy with the bomber jacket, etc. The character designs weren't bad, story wasn't too horrid, and the gameplay was fun ish.

Dunno. I'm just kinda agreeing with you here on the silliness factor.

[Roros]

I think my first jrpg was phantasy star 2 or 3 - the worst one in the series anyway. I have extremely fond memories of it and became a bit of a fan ever since.
I remember staying up at night in my underwear, probably 12 years of age, volume at 1, my room lit just from my tiny tv, and trying to get a sickie off school the next day because I was so tired.

The real kicker is that once final fantasy 7 came out, I hated it. I thought the 3d graphics were forced and lacked character, and got so bored that I didn't even finish it. I've played it 3 times in an attempt to finish it just because everyone tells me I have to, but I have never played past where you get the dog-like party member.

I still miss the topdown/isometric jrpg's with the talking portraits. It's probably just nostalgia, but 3d ones just don't resonate with me in the same way at all.

[Renevent]

I miss the first 2 Final Fantasy games...the 3rd was good too but I think that's the one where they really started going nuts with the cut scenes.

Shinning Force I & II was also great...admittedly the very start of the game was sorta silly and too lighthearted.

Phantasy Star was another great series, and although most say the 3rd sucked the worst I actually really enjoyed it. Thought the whole generation concept was very cool.

I played tons of them...sigh. These days this is what we get:

http://static.stuff.co.nz/1254399316/814/2923814.png

*edited to just be a link (not image) so I wouldn't have to look at it every time I open thread*

Just ugh...

[Kardiophylax]

I enjoyed all of the SNES Final Fantasy games, Secret of Mana, and Chrono Trigger. Possibly a few others I'm forgetting. Once Final Fantasy 7 came out and birthed Sephiroth, it all went downhill for me. I've not played a JRPG since, so I'm with you on that. I rented FF X once and hated it.

I think Richard Garriott said it best. When technology is stagnant, developers must try harder to develop quality products that stand out from the rest. Game A comes out, then Game B comes out and since graphics and technology are the same, it needs to produce better gameplay. The same thing with Game C, D, and beyond.

When technology is moving quickly, it becomes easy to simply recreate Game A over and over again with some new pretty pictures. I feel that's the state of gaming at this point, for the most part. A lot of games just feel been there, done that, before they even release.

[VeggieBoy]

No offense to anyone, but the Japanese culture is a... bit off.

[Renevent]

I actually like watching some of their game shows...especially the pranks :p

Definitely crazy though!

[ASYLUM101]

Lol, renevent, the japanese shows are AWESOME.

[Renevent]

Like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iteFSOVvrcY

What the hell is going on in Japan?!?!?!?

Seriously though I like it :D

[Malpheas]

I liked the old school "jrpgs". FF3/6, FF2/4, SoM, SoM3 (the port emulated one), FF7, FF8, Xenogears, Star Ocean, SF, SFII, Vagrant Story, Legend of Mana, etc....

rant

I think where it went sideways for me was voice acting. I never liked it, as I enjoy reading more. I just don't care about the new voices and cutscenes. Just don't care. Prime example - combat is fun in Star Ocean: Last Hope, but OMFG THE CUTSCENES AND VOICES MAKE ME CRINGE.

*sigh*

/rant

[Scryer]

In regards to JRPG's I'd like them to go back to game-play elements that were fun, and use technology as a way to just make it better, right now, developer's want to tell a story by holding your hand with many cut-scenes, that's not a game, that's a badly made movie.

I want to play a fun game with interesting story elements, not a movie with whinny kids.

[shawnmck]

I for one never cared much for JRPG's, but I used to watch a friend play them. And I agree, they have become so weird that they are even more of a turn off.
But hey, at least WRPG's keep getting better.
;)

[eisprinzessin]

I started to play video games again about 13 years ago: Suikoden, Vandal Hearts, FF7 and several other PS1 titles. I also completed FF8+9. Both have a great gameplay (especially 8), but the plot worsened with each new installment. The leap of faith I used to have for Square's titles was consumed, and the character design for FF10 repelled me. I haven't purchased any other gaming console and switched over to WoW.

@RorosFinal Fantasy VII - great story, great characters (heros and villains), great CGI sequences and an excellent and melancholic soundtrack. You need to get over the beginning in the sole metropolis Migdar in the first 6 hours, but once the story unfolds it becomes very addictive. Strange thing: should you replay the game, then the beginning will not be confusing but becomes quite entertaining.

@ReneventWhat happened to them? No, I don't mean where are they...I mean just wtf happened to them? [...] Would Japanese developers please come back to their senses?!?!?! Games evolve (gamers too?) and the route JRPGs have recently taken, is apparently not ours anymore ... will we meet again? Or to twist your words: Would you please catch up to Japanese developers' senses?!?!? :p I assume that they need to focus on their prime market Japan, and the international success of J-Pop might have boosted them in their confidence, they are doing it right.

[TheRani]

Try Etrian Odyssey and its sequel on the DS. They're more like Wizardry than Final Fantasy.

There actually are plenty of awesome JRPGs, but most of them never get translated and sold to us, since they figure all Americans want is Final Fantasy and Pokemon. Rehashes of the same crap.

[shawnmck]

Someone else has already brought up the game "Demon's Souls" on the "What else are you Playing" topic board, but I thought I'd bring it up again....
I know it isn't really a traditional "JRPG", but it is still an RPG (albeit Action/RPG) that was developed in Japan, but for more of a Western feel, and I gotta say that it is pretty cool.
So I think that Japanese companies can do a good job if they want to, its just that their culture has changed and gone in a direction that is drastically in contrast with ours & so their games really clash with Western personal tastes and culture.

I also personally think that the Japanese economy & xenophobia of other Countries (especially the Western ones) have something do do with it as well. I remember back in the day (80's & even 90's) when the Japanese video game market was HUGE. All the really great games came from Japan. Today they are just a shadow of what they used to be, & the US & Europe/UK have since surpased Japan as the dominant videogame market. I just think that the Japanese Developers have kinda shrunk within themselves because they aren't as big as they once were, and in order to make more money they would have to make their games more appealing to Western audiences which kinda clashes with their xenophobic nature. Western made games & consoles are not desired & sell extremely poorly over there in Japan when (& if) they manage to reach that market. So I personally feel that the average Japanese developer is sort of in a catch 22 position.
They need to adopt a more Western gaming stance in order to make their games more popular in the West, which makes them less desirable in their own Country of Japan, but yet if they make games that cater to the Japanese public/ consumer than those games tend to flop here in the West.

I'm sure many of you have noticed that a lot of games that come from Japan have a more Western feel to them, and are usually a 3rd person shooter...that's because those games sell better in the Western Countries, but they sell poorly in Japan. Yet the games they make that the Japanese culture loves are not well received in the West. Throw in the fact that the Japanese video game market isn't anywhere as popular as it used to be and I think you'll see why most Japanese Developers have a hard time making good games.
I mean, would some of you make a game that has game-play & content that caters to another culture, but that you don't much care for yourself, just to increase game sales?
I think it would kinda suck, but that is the position Japanese Developers find themselves in. Do they make a game that would cater to the average Japanese (because their culture is so vastly different than ours) that would likely sell poorly, or do they cater to the Western cultures to make more money and make a game that they probably have no real interest or desire to make?

What do you think?

And I apologize for the long post (rant).
:p

[eisprinzessin]

Good point shawnmck - the characters in FF8 (1999) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VIII) and Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within (2001) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy:_The_Spirits_Within) look Western. They've abandoned this style - the people in Final Fantasy VII Advent Children (2005) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII_Advent_Children) look Japanese.