Donation/Pre-order Development Model

[Renevent]

Anybody else really like this model? This will be the second time I have participated in it (first being Mount & Blade)...I really like the idea of helping out the "mythical little guy" and hope donations by a lot of people can improve the amount/quality of work can go into a game.

Anybody else like it? Dislike it?

Anyways, did the $32 option this time...which is kind of opposite of Mount & Blade which was actually a discounted price. Not quite awesome enough to do the $48 one though lol...my charity only goes so far :p

[medierra]

Hey man, we're not mythical, we really do exist!

Really appreciate the donation, especially from a guy who just lost an appendix. I hope we'll be able to deliver on the goods (heh - yes, I meant that I hope it will be as good as you've come to expect). I've got to say, so far things are looking good. We've got a few more exciting announcements about new features that we're dying to reveal... but not quite yet. Have to build torturous suspense first. ; p

[Rhis]

Thanks for your support!

[jiaco]

I must admit, I got the 48 $ version, selfishly to play the alpha. But also not selfishly to say thanks for TQ. With the modding community that TQ has, the game seems that it will never die. I hope that GD is a sucess in that style as well: tons of re-playability and modability.

Best of luck to the dev team, both in terms of getting the $ needed and finishing the game. I just realized reading medirra's "hope we'll be able to deliver" phrase that I may be just playing the alpha version of a vBulletin forum.

[Renevent]

I just realized reading medirra's "hope we'll be able to deliver" phrase that I may be just playing the alpha version of a vBulletin forum.

When I read that I got a little nervous myself...but I'm hoping what he meant was being able to deliver on a quality title...not the ability to deliver the game at all :D

[medierra]

We can only deliver if you purchase 934057358907 pre-orders!

Haha, I guess maybe that was poor wording. I did in fact mean that I hope we'll be able to deliver a game that meets everyone's high expectations. Of course, I was just saying that so you'd think I was a humble person. In reality I have a massively over-inflated ego like all game designers and have no doubt that the game will be awesome. I can't foresee the future but things are all looking good right now. Fortunately many of the things that would prevent us from shipping, like a giant asteroid destroying the Earth, would mean that you wouldn't be around to play the game anyway. ; p

[Renevent]

LOL...good to know.

[ASYLUM101]

My brother and I are debating grabbing the Legendary preorder, despite our empty pockets. Just to show our love to ex-ILE and for a chance at that alpha. :)

[medierra]

My brother and I are debating grabbing the Legendary preorder, despite our empty pockets. Just to show our love to ex-ILE and for a chance at that alpha. :)

If you don't you will probably regret it for the rest of your life... just saying...

[ASYLUM101]

lol, most likely.

[Kluga]

Definitely looking to partake in one of these pre-orders. It's a great idea and I'd love to support the devs in their creation of what will no doubt be a great game. My only problem is a lack of payment method over the internet. My parents won't understand when I try to explain why I need their credit card haha

[Chameleon]

Hmmm if the $48 Legendary Donation got me a Box copy when it was released I'd seriously consider it...

[Renevent]

It doesn't sound like there will be a boxed copy at all...at least that what it sounds like from the FAQ.

*edit*

Whoops, I was wrong...sounds like they are at least considering it...

Where can I buy Grim Dawn and how much will it cost?

We plan to release Grim Dawn on Steam and through other digital distribution sites for about $20. In addition to this, you can also pre-order the game now from our website and download it directly from us when it releases. By pre-ordering now, your money will help fund our development and make Grim Dawn a better game. We may also release a box-copy to be sold in stores at some point but we have not yet worked out all the details.

[Chameleon]

I read the info about the box copy before I posted my comment.:p

[medierra]

Hmmm if the $48 Legendary Donation got me a Box copy when it was released I'd seriously consider it...

If you buy the Legendary edition now, you may also be able to buy a box copy for $48 later! Why settle for one when you can have both?!

Actually, if there is a box copy sometime in the future, it would probably only be around the normal $20 price or possibly slightly higher to account for distribution costs.

[Malpheas]

So, quick question here - Would the DLC cost money?

I'm in to the legendary option, but only because I want the alpha as well. I'll get that here shortly...

[medierra]

So, quick question here - Would the DLC cost money?

I'm in to the legendary option, but only because I want the alpha as well. I'll get that here shortly...

Most of it will, small things may be released for free. By DLC we're mainly talking about expansions that include new gameplay areas, quests, player classes, enemies and items. The type of thing you'd normally expect from a full retail expansion only broken up into smaller chunks that come out more often and cost less.

Basically, after releasing GD, we really want to just keep building this game and expanding the content as long as there is an audience for it. We're planning for 200 player levels to accommodate this goal.

[Renevent]

I only have one concern about that model...

Basically I prefer actual expansion packs, while I have nothing against DLC, I like the idea of larger chunks of content (even if it means more money and longer waits) in expansions.

But I get the idea of wanting to release content at a faster pace, and in theory thats great, the only problem is actually releasing that stuff quickly. Every game I have played that has had that approach ends up either going waaay past schedule, or providing too little for it to be really interesting.

I'm sure there is a balance to be found, and I hope you guys are successful with it...

[medierra]

I understand the desire to buy content in larger chunks and I think it is important for us to offer it that way so that the online community doesn't become too broken up.

Once we have a certain critical mass in terms of available assets, it doesn't take as long for us to create a sizable amount of new content as it would for a game that had a lot of scripted cut-scenes and intricate God of War style boss encounters / animations. However, if it came to it, we'd always err on the side of overshooting our schedule. When you're trying to build a game franchise with longevity it doesn't make sense to rush disappointing crap out the door.

[Malpheas]

As long as you have payment via Paypal, then I'm all for it. Oh and a nominal charge based on release quantity / quality, of course.

[Chameleon]

Multi player will have to be compatible with those of us who might not get the DLC.:p

I'm not likely to be buying much if anything after I pay for the initial game...

[Renevent]

You had better buy it! :p

[medierra]

Multi player will have to be compatible with those of us who might not get the DLC.:p

I'm not likely to be buying much if anything after I pay for the initial game...

Did you buy Immortal Throne?

[Chameleon]

Did you buy Immortal Throne?

Yeah, eventually...like 3+ years after it was released and I picked it up for $5. lol

I suppose I'm an old school minded person. I like hard copies of everything. I dont fell like I'm really buying anything when I buy DLC...actually I've never played a game that had DLC, let alone having to pay for it.

[medierra]

Yeah, eventually...like 3+ years after it was released and I picked it up for $5. lol

I suppose I'm an old school minded person. I like hard copies of everything. I dont fell like I'm really buying anything when I buy DLC...actually I've never played a game that had DLC, let alone having to pay for it.

Yeah, I can relate. I used to feel the same way about movies and my beloved game boxes. Used to go to the store and buy a few DVDs every month. Then I started watching movies on xboxlive marketplace. It was really convenient but sort of bothered me that I wasn't getting anything tangible. I'm a hoarder, you know how it is. I need physical loot to satiate my consumer lust. Then I had to move in July and ended up with 5 large boxes of VHS, DVD, and game cases / boxes. It hurt me to do it but I ended up chucking it all. I'd been hauling all that junk around from place to place for years and a lot of it I hadn't even looked at, let alone used in 5+ years. I finally felt like enough was enough and I didn't really need all that clutter taking up space in my life - a ridiculous amount of space. Haven't looked back since. The digital age is upon us. I sort of wonder if you'll even be able to buy physical copies of those things in 30 years.

The fact that you're also cheap, err, I mean thrifty, well, not much to say about that! ; p

[Renevent]

I used to love box copies too...but now...especially with convenient services like steam...forget about it. I don't miss the extra clutter, swapping dvd/cd's, manually patching, or manual installing.

Digital age is right, and honestly I can't see any reason to clutch to the past now.

[Chameleon]

The fact that you're also cheap, err, I mean thrifty, well, not much to say about that! ; p

In my defense I was a latecomer to TQ and it was already heavily discounted. :)

I guess I'll have to put up with the digital DL concept...but I dont have to like not being able to buy hard copies.:p

[ASYLUM101]

What if someone mails you a cardboard box with "GD:DLC" graffitied onto it? That should remedy the problem, and be pretty cheap. (Boxes are free at BJs)

[medierra]

From a business perspective the upside of hard copies is that people may buy extras after they lose or damage the originals. Between D2 and WC3 I think I bought 5-6 copies over the years. Although, part of the problem is that a game studio is not a safe environment for game CDs...

[heron]

not to jinx the game but I do have a concern about this method of payment.
what happens if this product get the axe? will we get a refund? I know it's a "donation/pre-order" type contract but what if?

[jiaco]

I think we are at least guaranteed to get the version with the vampire mastery and all the potatoes...

[Shattered.likeness]

Maybe the potatoes could be one of the explosives for the "Demolition" class. I'd love to run around with a Spud-zooka blowing things up.

* Runs off to add idea to the Class Themes thread.

[medierra]

not to jinx the game but I do have a concern about this method of payment.
what happens if this product get the axe? will we get a refund? I know it's a "donation/pre-order" type contract but what if?

A just concern. As of now, we do not foresee any obstacles that would prevent us from completing Grim Dawn. Our current budget is tight but we believe it is sufficient to finish the project. Donations, in significant enough quantity, will allow us to slightly expand our scope and add in some things we think could really improve the initial release but which do not fit into the current budget.

If we use these donations to expand our development budget, as we plan, then we won't be able to refund them should some unexpected tragedy befall us. So, that said, this is a donation and I would consider that before making the decision to contribute.

The only way that there would not be any risk, would be if the game was already completed. That obviously is not the case at this time. The closer we get to release, the less risk there will be in "donating" but also the less benefit your contribution will have since the addition of features or assets takes significant advanced planning and time for implementation.

We certainly do not take your contributions lightly. We ourselves are taking great person risk with the investment of our own money and, for many on this project including myself, work without pay.

As a guardian of the holy grail once said: "Choose, but choose wisely". Don't worry though, in this case if you choose poorly you won't instantly wither away into a dried up old husk (it will happen much more gradually).

[medierra]

I think we are at least guaranteed to get the version with the vampire mastery and all the potatoes...

Truth. No matter what happens, we can definitely deliver some virtual potatoes. .. ....

hmm.. what if there is a virtual potato blight?

[Shattered.likeness]

That would be great with my potato cannon idea! Cannon starts doing poison damage when the potato blight starts up in the story line. :p




Stop me if this "potato cannon" idea starts getting annoying. I'll try to stop myself.

[The Swarthy One]

well, the irish potato famine was in the 1840's, so technically the time frame's correct.

[eisprinzessin]

Item number 1337 :o ... given current US$-Euro exchange rate I was happy to settle for this nerdy thing :rolleyes: ... looking forward to redeem the key :cool:

[Rhis]

Item number 1337 :o ... given current US$-Euro exchange rate I was happy to settle for this nerdy thing :rolleyes: ... looking forward to redeem the key :cool:

You're l337. Thanks for the support!

[loydb]

I'm in on Legendary, I love this model.

[eisprinzessin]

Hope you will get as much attention as Unknown Worlds (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25036). About 5641 gamers pre-ordered Natural Selection 2.

[jiaco]

Dont hope, do.

Too bad that Google Spider that likes to hang out in the Calendar section does not get to donate.

Seriously, if you have signed up to a forum for a vapor-game and have not decided to support the developers and help make this thing happen, then what are you waiting for. Now is the time that they need your support. And now the money goes straight to them (well paypal must take a cut, but not nearly as much as the distribution channels that the game will eventually be released on).

[Renevent]

Hope so too...but how do you get yourself out there like that? Especially right now...there isn't even any promotional material. Hopefully once a few screen shots are released and a video or two interest will ramp up.

[eisprinzessin]

Dont hope, do.Eh, I did. (http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showpost.php?p=295&postcount=37) ;) But one copy is enough for me.

[Renevent]

When are you guys planning on releasing some promotional material? Month or two? I would really like to start hyping and try to get the game some attention, but without anything for people to see there's not much we can really say...well other than "it's from the makers of TQ!".

[medierra]

Hope you will get as much attention as Unknown Worlds (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25036). About 5641 gamers pre-ordered Natural Selection 2.

I think they actually surpassed 10,000 a while ago. It would be really fantastic if we reach those numbers but even half that in legendary donations would allow us to add a bunch more enemy models, items, environment art, and V/Os.

[Chameleon]

I think they actually surpassed 10,000 a while ago. It would be really fantastic if we reach those numbers but even half that in legendary donations would allow us to add a bunch more enemy models, items, environment art, and V/Os.

You should have a fund raising graphic like this somewhere on the site so we can see how much has been given. :D

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/8273561/2/istockphoto_8273561-fundraising-thermometer.jpg

[Renevent]

Yeah that would be pretty cool...interested to see how this whole thing works out :D

[medierra]

When are you guys planning on releasing some promotional material? Month or two? I would really like to start hyping and try to get the game some attention, but without anything for people to see there's not much we can really say...well other than "it's from the makers of TQ!".

A month or two is probably correct. Engineering and design are currently much further along than art. Unfortunately, art is what people want to see. We intentionally back-loaded the art because, beyond certain essentials, it isn't necessary to have much art during the early phases of development. This lowers risk because, by the time we need to start making art, we have a more concrete idea of what we need, how those assets need to be built and we've reached a point in the project were we're more confident about further investing ourselves. So, we pulled the trigger on increased art production about a month ago and more assets are beginning to roll out while we're also polishing up existing ones.

We wanted to launch the site in advance of this so that we could slowly introduce our more enthusiastic fans to the project and the forums, get feedback, and test everything out before a major press release. Our plan was to sort of slow-roll the launch but it seems like it is picking up momentum faster than anticipated due to the great enthusiasm many of you have shown in getting the word out. (Curses! If it weren't for you meddling kids we would have gotten away with it too! - Old Man Withers).

Although many companies wait until their games are in a polished near-shippable state before releasing media, we plan to buck the trend and release stuff that is a little more "raw". We want to do this so we can make our fans more of a part of the development and let people see how the game is shaping up. However, we don't want to release media that is too raw since some people may not be able to take it fully in context and could make false assumptions about what the quality of the end-product will be like. Many gamers don't realize how much polish a game goes through in the months leading up to release. So, we're trying to achieve a balance here. We want to give you an early peak at the game... but not too early. ; p

[Renevent]

Very cool, and I think all of us "enthusiastic fans" here right now appreciate this approach.

[Dragonero]

Really understand you, medierra. As you know I'm a cartoonist and I also develop medium and long term projects with my team. Readers are asking us to continually updates the progress of the work. They want to see pictures and preparatory drawings and they want to know the story and characters. I understand them and I am very happy with the relationship we have established with readers, but it is always best to show them examples of work close to the final result. As a fan of TQ I confess that I can not wait to see some image of GD ... but I promise to be patient.
By the way ... when pictures of GD?:D

[jiaco]

I would actually settle for an occasional blog post about who is doing what or some images of the team and the work environment.

Your site here is really nice, and since it is full of TQers and people who have possibly donated to keep you moving, you should put faces to the names and show us your digs and rigs (place of work and computers).

Nothing is too geeky for us (I assume) but really, even the basics like how many people work on GD, what role each person plays, that stuff.

[medierra]

We'll be putting out regular updates on the forum. That's what the dev topic and game info sections are for. We'll be talking about all the little improvements we're making as well as periodically announcing major features. You can expect to see a new information at least every week or so - or as often as we're able to generate news worth sharing.

[Ansive]

Just curious. What names will you be using in the credits for the Legendary and Epic pre-orders? Paypal account owner's name?

Oh, after the paypal transaction is finished you get redirected to
http://www.crateentertainment.com/thankyou01.html
404 - get it fixed :p

[TheRani]

Although many companies wait until their games are in a polished near-shippable state before releasing media, we plan to buck the trend and release stuff that is a little more "raw". We want to do this so we can make our fans more of a part of the development and let people see how the game is shaping up. However, we don't want to release media that is too raw since some people may not be able to take it fully in context and could make false assumptions about what the quality of the end-product will be like. Many gamers don't realize how much polish a game goes through in the months leading up to release. So, we're trying to achieve a balance here. We want to give you an early peak at the game... but not too early. ; p

Okay.. now I'm envisioning you guys testing how skills work.. with stick people characters decapitating stick monsters and splashing gore everywhere..

[Rhis]

Just curious. What names will you be using in the credits for the Legendary and Epic pre-orders? Paypal account owner's name?

There will be a page on which you can enter the name you would like for each key you own. I'm working on finishing this up right now.

[medierra]

Oh, after the paypal transaction is finished you get redirected to
http://www.crateentertainment.com/thankyou01.html
404 - get it fixed :p

Good catch - fixed! Would be helpful if people could buy a bunch of additional pre-orders just to test and make sure though. ; )

[phoenix]

Medierra,

Loved TQ and TQ:IT...hope this round of funding goes well.

I understand that you're charging pre-order prices for people who wish to purchase the game now...and that's why we're seeing the $20+ options. But, I was surprised to click on "contribute" and not see an option to simply donate smaller sums of money w/o purchasing anything. How about $3, $5, and $7 (etc.) buttons, and a button to donate X dollars...for those fans who want to show their support, but don't want to incur a higher risk (or can't afford to during a depressed economy). If you're targeting a $20 price point initially, I'm sure there are fans out there who are willing to donate smaller sums now to get the game to market, and then buy the game outright when it is released.

Just a thought.

Best of luck to you and Crate Entertainment.

[Spetz]

After paymant redirects to:
http://www.crateentertainment.com/contribute_thankyou1336.php?merchant_return_link=R eturn+to+Crate+Entertainment%2C+LLC

Problem still the same - 404 not found :(

[medierra]

Medierra,

Loved TQ and TQ:IT...hope this round of funding goes well.

I understand that you're charging pre-order prices for people who wish to purchase the game now...and that's why we're seeing the $20+ options. But, I was surprised to click on "contribute" and not see an option to simply donate smaller sums of money w/o purchasing anything. How about $3, $5, and $7 (etc.) buttons, and a button to donate X dollars...for those fans who want to show their support, but don't want to incur a higher risk (or can't afford to during a depressed economy). If you're targeting a $20 price point initially, I'm sure there are fans out there who are willing to donate smaller sums now to get the game to market, and then buy the game outright when it is released.

Just a thought.

Best of luck to you and Crate Entertainment.

We were originally just going to put up a donate button. However, after thinking about it we were afraid some people might make substantial donations and then feel slighted later when they had to pay more money to buy the game.

Maybe it is something we should consider though.

[medierra]

After paymant redirects to:
http://www.crateentertainment.com/contribute_thankyou1336.php?merchant_return_link=R eturn+to+Crate+Entertainment%2C+LLCProblem still the same - 404 not found :(

EPIC FAIL!>!!1!!

OK, seriously, they are totally fixed for realz this time! I swear, really! Don't believe me? Fine, you can view the message you would have received if we weren't total block-heads here:

http://www.grimdawn.com/contribute_thankyou1335.php
http://www.grimdawn.com/contribute_thankyou1336.php
http://www.grimdawn.com/contribute_thankyou1337.php

[Sandirk]

Just signed up for the legendary pack, great idea for a smaller developers hope it works out well and enables you to add extra shiny bits for all to enjoy.. or even just for food to postpone the starvation of staff members :D

[Rhis]

Just signed up for the legendary pack, great idea for a smaller developers hope it works out well and enables you to add extra shiny bits for all to enjoy.. or even just for food to postpone the starvation of staff members :D

Thanks for your support!

[phoenix]

We were originally just going to put up a donate button. However, after thinking about it we were afraid some people might make substantial donations and then feel slighted later when they had to pay more money to buy the game.

Maybe it is something we should consider though.

Ahh...maybe the 'donate X' button gets the axe to prevent overly generous donors from feeling 'slighted'.

At this point, your minimum buy-in is $20...you're missing out on any donation lower than that. Maybe making it abundantly clear that the smaller contributions are not down payments toward a pre-order or the purchase of a game would minimize confusion. Aside from providing Crate immediate revenue, smaller donations plant the seed for future sales. Those making smaller donations now, are likely to follow up on their 'investment' w/ a purchase down the road.

I'm rereading this, and it is starting to sound preachy...not the intent...just trying to toss out ideas that might help the game.

[medierra]

No, I think its a good idea. We had just assumed that anyone who was going to bother donating would probably just get the $20 version. Perhaps that was an oversight on our part though. We're certainly in no position to snub smaller donations and every bit is very much appreciated. So if there is someone who just wants a donation button, I think we'd be foolish not to accommodate that.

That said, we'll probably get it up in the next week or so.

[yerkyerk]

As well as missing out on people who already ordered the Legendary and still wish to donate. But, it's a bit pointless to note that since the donate button is already going to be there

[Opal Monkey]

I'm curious about how the direct-download will work? I'm still on dial-up at the moment, simply because highspeed isn't available in many rural places in western Canada.

I'm planning on getting the Legendary pack, but I have to make sure I can use it. I'm not going to ask that you make hard copies, I realize that digital distribution is here to stay and hard copies are being phased out... not that I'm happy with it, I'm a bit of a hoarder too, Medierra. Hmm... I don't suppose you could just burn me a disc and mail it to me when it's released, eh? Hehe...

Anyways, seeing as how I've never used anything but hard copies, is it possible to download everything on a different computer then install it on mine? If I can do that, I'll contribute right away! If not, I'll just have to wait and see if I can find someway to get highspeed, or just suck it up and contribute now anyways, then deal with finding a way to get Grim Dawn when it comes out.

If I get half as much play time out of Grim Dawn as I did from Titan Quest, it'll still be one of my most played games! Good luck!

[Jean]

I bought legendary pre-order and read afterwards :
This game-key will allow you to download Grim Dawn from us on the day of release.
I hope that "from us" means "from us Crate" and not "from US (United States) because I'm in France. :eek:

Where can I find my pre-order key to the credit name ?

EDIT : I found it !

[Ansive]

I wouldn't matter anyway.
This is the internet... it does not matter in what country the server hosting the files in located. You can download from anywhere in the world. The only difference might be the download speed. (the closer the server the faster the speed).
Also if they had meant US it would have been capitalized.

Yes, they mean download directly from them (Crate).

Your pre-order key has been sent to your paypal email address.


@ Opal Monkey

I'm sure you will be able to download the game files on any computer. You will only need the cd key. The only question is if you will be able to move those files (do you get an installation kit, or will the game be bound to the computer). Honestly I think there might be a prompt for the key when installing, or an online activation (you are getting the game online after all). So the files shouldn't be bound. Wait for an official answer.

[salsero71ita]

...the legendary version of the game.
Keep working guys and I'm spreading the name of GD among Italian fans of TQIT on the Hardware Upgrade forum ;)

[Zhero]

I'm a huge fan of Titan Quest (just reinstalled it to take another romp through it, in fact). I recall playing a downloaded copy of Titan Quest the weekend before the official release. I had so much fun that I went out and purchased it on the day of release. I've been paying for my games ever since.

Count me in for a Legendary.

On a side note, you better get that "donate now" button up there so people can pay whatever they can. Gabe Newel had some interesting stats about Steam sales that show when prices for Half-Life 2 were really low, Steam actually made more money than when they charged full retail price for the same title. I'm not an economics expert, but I bet that you could make that formula work for you here.

Best of luck to the folks at Crate!

[medierra]

Anyways, seeing as how I've never used anything but hard copies, is it possible to download everything on a different computer then install it on mine? If I can do that, I'll contribute right away! If not, I'll just have to wait and see if I can find someway to get highspeed, or just suck it up and contribute now anyways, then deal with finding a way to get Grim Dawn when it comes out.


You will be able to download a physical copy of the game that can then be installed on any computer using your game-key.

[medierra]

I bought legendary pre-order and read afterwards :

I hope that "from us" means "from us Crate" and not "from US (United States) because I'm in France. :eek:

Where can I find my pre-order key to the credit name ?

EDIT : I found it !

First, thank you so much for the contribution. Second, yes "us" means Crate not the United States. lol

If you can connect to the internet, you can download the game regardless of where you are downloading from.

[Simtechray]

Will there be any DRM or such. I have two pc's and would like to install my copy on both for lan play, is this possible just buying one copy?

[heron]

Will there be other option to order besides paypal?
I'm planning to use my debit card to order the legendary package.

[Renevent]

You can use your debit card without signing into paypal...it simply conducts the transaction. I used my debit card as well...

[medierra]

Will there be any DRM or such. I have two pc's and would like to install my copy on both for lan play, is this possible just buying one copy?

We haven't planned on using any. You can play via LAN that way but wouldn't be able to log onto a multiplayer matchmaking service like Steam without two unique game-keys. Of course, we always encourage you to buy separate copies. ;)

[Scryer]

Will the Alpha have a sort of Multiplayer in it other then LAN?

I'm just curious, however it will not affect my decision to help you guys out.

I'm sorry if you've answered this already.

Also, maybe you should add more options of donation? Maybe a "Free Donate" once someone has ordered the game originally? Just make it painfully clear that they are not purchasing the game with said donation and provide links to the donation options that are Pre-orders.

Something like that.

hehe, well just a suggestion.

[yerkyerk]

There's going to be a donate button.


I was also wondering; perhaps it's an idea to allow people to 'upgrade' their donation? If people paid for the regular version, but get good stories and see the alpha or beta coming along nicely, perhaps they'll be willing to donate more because they want to participate and/or have a better view of what they're supporting.

[Ansive]

A thread about this in Steam's Titan Quest forum might be a good idea. I think...

[heron]

There's going to be a donate button.


I was also wondering; perhaps it's an idea to allow people to 'upgrade' their donation? If people paid for the regular version, but get good stories and see the alpha or beta coming along nicely, perhaps they'll be willing to donate more because they want to participate and/or have a better view of what they're supporting.

As interest grow over the next few months, I'm sure folks who order the 20 bucks version would like to join the alpha version. Maybe have an option to get the alpha later on?

base package = $20
beta addon = $10
alpha addon = $20

[Renevent]

That's not a bad idea...I purchased epic though if some of the screenies and videos released soon look sick, I would possible consider upgrading...

[medierra]

Will the Alpha have a sort of Multiplayer in it other then LAN?



That I do not know. It depends whether we conduct the alpha through a gaming service with online matchmaking like Steam. They do support alpha / beta testing but I don't know if we'll be ready to test that by early alpha. I think there is a good chance the alpha will have matchmaking and it is pretty certain that we'd have that up by beta.

[medierra]

A thread about this in Steam's Titan Quest forum might be a good idea. I think...

Good call! Someone want to get the ball rolling? ;)

[medierra]

As interest grow over the next few months, I'm sure folks who order the 20 bucks version would like to join the alpha version. Maybe have an option to get the alpha later on?

base package = $20
beta addon = $10
alpha addon = $20

An interesting idea. We do actually want to keep the alpha kind of small but this might be a good way to expand it if we decide we need more testers - or money I guess. :D

[Scryer]

Thanks for the quick reply medierra! I for sure hope to help as much as possible.

[AXidenT]

I only just discovered that there was going to be a succesor to TQ of sorts, but as soon as I have money again (ie. after all the games coming out at the moment that I want are purchased :P), I'll try and scrape together the money to donate towards whatever the fanciest version is.

[deimos]

I'm thinking of forking over the dough for the Legendary pack next month if all goes to plan...

Don't know if it's been asked already, but what happens if you guys run dry? I mean, is getting a publisher the last resort or is this project going to be trashed if that happens?

edit: turns out it was half-answered, but since all i see is blue and purple loot i missed the answer in the previous pages...

[Opal Monkey]

You will be able to download a physical copy of the game that can then be installed on any computer using your game-key.

Thank you, that's perfect! I'll be getting the Legendary pack right away!

[medierra]

Don't know if it's been asked already, but what happens if you guys run dry? I mean, is getting a publisher the last resort or is this project going to be trashed if that happens?

edit: turns out it was half-answered, but since all i see is blue and purple loot i missed the answer in the previous pages...

Haha, well its a good question. There isn't much chance that we will "run dry" because our overhead is quite low. If we ran low on funds the most likely impact would be that the game would take much longer to complete because we wouldn't be able to afford to contract out as much of the art.

That said, if we decided down the road that the project could really benefit from additional funding, either to meet an earlier release date, expand the scope, or add polish, publishers are always an option. Working with a publisher is not necessarily a bad thing and we aren't all anti-publisher; we just want to have some leverage in the relationship. There are valuable services they could provide like localization and retail distribution. Our goal is to retain ownership of Grim Dawn. The further along we get in development on our own, the greater the likelihood that we'd be able to retain ownership in any deal we made.

One option along these lines is to work out a deal for the boxed retail distribution in exchange for some additional funding to wrap up the project. We've already been approached by some smaller publishers with offers like this. If we retain control over digital distribution and ownership of the game but receive some minor funding in exchange for retail distribution rights, that wouldn't be a bad deal at all.

On the other hand, when a developer is forced to give up IP rights, they lose a lot of control over the future of their company and game. At ILE this was a huge factor in the company's closure. They also tend to lose control over decisions like DRM, patching, and the future course of development. Do you really want some random marketing guy telling us what features they think you want? :p

Ok, I went off a little bit there. Basically, it is very unlikely we'd just go bust and there are various options that we could pursue if we find ourselves looking for extra cash.

[paulusx]

Just made my $48 donation (or about $80 NZD ;) LOL ...1 kiwi happy to help out

[k4llu5]

As a guardian of the holy grail once said: "Choose, but choose wisely". Don't worry though, in this case if you choose poorly you won't instantly wither away into a dried up old husk (it will happen much more gradually).[/QUOTE]


You chose Wisely...

[TheRani]

I'm having a little problem. When I click the Legendary pre-order button, it takes me to a paypal page with this message:

"This recipient is currently unable to receive money."

What's up with that?

[ASYLUM101]

I'm having a little problem. When I click the Legendary pre-order button, it takes me to a paypal page with this message:

"This recipient is currently unable to receive money."

What's up with that?

:O

Sounds like Crate doesn't need anymore money! GD IS IMMINENT!

haha, joking of course. (duh) That sucks, we need to find the source of this evil!

[Iceciro]

They've gotten so much money so fast PayPal thinks they're fraudulent. *crosses fingers*

[MadWasp]

What the hell...I hope problems solve quickly.

They've gotten so much money so fast PayPal thinks they're fraudulent. *crosses fingers*

[eisprinzessin]

see here for updates (http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156)

[Lord Crc]

I picked up on this from "The Daily GameDev.net", hadn't heard about it or even GD till then. One Epic more in the pot, and I forwarded it to my buddy who was an avid TQ player.

May I suggest some nice wallpapers for us who have pre-ordered, in time? Doesn't have to be fancy, just something to remind us what we're waiting for :P

[jiaco]

In order to keep costs down, Crate will not be shipping your donation/pre-order memento to you. You will have to craft it yourself.

Essentially, to remind you of the game you have purchased, get the following:

1) a medium sized bowl
2) 200-300 grams of salt
3) a bag of potatoes

Place the bowl on your primary eating table and fill with the salt. Then place the sack of potatoes outside by your front door.

DO NOT allow anyone to use the salt at the table. If you have people at your house (I know a stretch of the imagination here), and they inquire about either the salt or the potatoes, just casually remind them that they have not yet pre-ordered their copy of GD. Permit them to use your computer and credit card if needed.

[Rhis]

In order to keep costs down, Crate will not be shipping your donation/pre-order memento to you. You will have to craft it yourself.

Essentially, to remind you of the game you have purchased, get the following:

1) a medium sized bowl
2) 200-300 grams of salt
3) a bag of potatoes

Place the bowl on your primary eating table and fill with the salt. Then place the sack of potatoes outside by your front door.

DO NOT allow anyone to use the salt at the table. If you have people at your house (I know a stretch of the imagination here), and they inquire about either the salt or the potatoes, just casually remind them that they have not yet pre-ordered their copy of GD. Permit them to use your computer and credit card if needed.

Poor jiaco was so distressed by losing the ability to pre-order another 7 legendary editions that he finally cracked.

[quinnyfizzle]

I feel that people who pre-purchase(especially the legendary pack) the game now should receive some DLC, which is normally purchased, for free in the form of credit.

The way I see it is that we are giving you guys capital to work with. An investmest per se. The game is still a long way off. Typically pre-purchases are not charged until the day of release where-as Grim Dawn is taking immediate cash deposits.

Am I being greedy or does this sound fair? I'm teetering on the edge about pre-ordering the game right now since I loved TQ.

[jiaco]

I think most of us feel that we got SO much out of TQ that we owed them the money already. I understand your sentiments, but I would not go there. You can wait for the game to be released if you feel entitled to more...

[Ansive]

Yes, you sound greedy. I think we should regard this as a donation.
The Legendary pack is for people who want to support this game a little more, not to get extra stuff.
I might be wrong.

[PCDania]

Yes, you sound greedy. I think we should regard this as a donation.
The Legendary pack is for people who want to support this game a little more, not to get extra stuff.
I might be wrong.
No, you are correct, I don't want or expect anything than what the deal says. If the really bad thing happens and the game never goes gold, ah well, at least I could easily have used that money for something worse and it's not like I will die from hunger or anything (not that I am rich).

One of the reasons I chose to support this game without actually knowing anything but that the people behind made TQ is I'm slowly getting tired of the big distributers buying up the good or promising developers and then ruining them or closing them down. Some of the developers who have given me the most fun doesn't exist anymore because they got an offer they could not resist, lost their independence and finally got closed down because their owner had got itself into an economical quackmire (or how it is spelled) because they didn't know how and when to limit themself (some would say 'became greedy' but that is such a ugly thing to say ;))

Seems like asking for more is getting the new trend. I'm currently alpha testing a program and lo and behold, even though the NDA says the testers do it for free, on their own risk et cetera, there has been a few asking to get the program for free. I've seen this a few time before within the last few years. It also seems to become more and more of a problem to get people from talking when they are not supposed to.

What have become of the good old feeling of testing a program and then when it goes gold knowing one has a tiny part in it, even feel a little pride? With some luck one even got mentioned in the credits and if the program sold really good, got a free copy as a surprise gift?

[eisprinzessin]

The epic pack will give you access to the beta - the legendary pack even to the alpha, too. There will be quite a lot of stuff in advance ... for now we can enjoy this forum.

[Iceciro]

The DLC will take capital to make, too. The Legendary and Epic packs are a way to show additional support - in a way, you are throwing your capital behind Crate to get the game out, to ensure that it kicks a lot of butt - I view my (future, damned finances) Legendary donation as a way to ensure I get 50 bucks out of the game, in a way - more capital for Crate to work with, more awesome game coming out later.

I don't feel the need to get DLC for my donation - though I will probably buy all of the DLC when it comes out, too.

But the Epic/Legendary fan packages are really 20 dollars plus donations, with some additional stuff thrown in as a thank-you. It's like donating to PBS and getting a tote bag. You're not paying 25 bucks for a 50 cent tote, you're getting the tote as a thank you for your much larger donation.

[climber]

I feel that people who pre-purchase(especially the legendary pack) the game now should receive some DLC, which is normally purchased, for free in the form of credit.

The way I see it is that we are giving you guys capital to work with. An investmest per se. The game is still a long way off. Typically pre-purchases are not charged until the day of release where-as Grim Dawn is taking immediate cash deposits.

Am I being greedy or does this sound fair? I'm teetering on the edge about pre-ordering the game right now since I loved TQ.

Just my two cents. We're donating because of the potential they have in making another awesome game. Some are probably hoping to get into the early alpha and beta releases, others are probably more altruistic about it.

But just because we're donating, let us not get ahead of ourselves and start placing requests or demands on them as before you know it you're going to have people demanding larger and larger requests. Let us just donate and let the guys behind the desks work without placing any other requests or demands on them. Plus I'm sure they'll come up with something on their own for those who helped them along the way. Just let them surprise us. I'm sure it will be legendary!

[quinnyfizzle]

Ah. I guess the issue is that I viewed it as a pre-purchase while you guys see it more as a donation. That changes it quite a bit.

I'm still iffy about handing over $50 for a product that might not see the light of day for probably 1-2 years from now. Taking a wild guess at the release date.

[yerkyerk]

The release date is estimated at about the end of this year/the beginning of next year.

Sure, you take a risk. If you don't feel comfortable investing in a game that might not see the light of day (according to medierra that's rather unlikely though), you shouldn't do it. Or perhaps wait a while until there's more info available?

[eisprinzessin]

We (I at least ;)) see this as an investment for the future. I would not have ordered yet, if I have not spent so much time in the forums - this has boosted my trust in this project. It's been a treat to discuss things here and on http://www.titanquest.net/forums/grim-dawn-suggestions/ previously. I actually consider the time I've invested more precious than the 48$ I gave. It was just logical for me to contribute.

[shawnmck]

I am new to this board, so please excuse my ignorance. But where can I get the Legend/Epic Donation/Pre-order ?
Is it in the Contribute tab ? I've tried it, but its down.
I also don't have a Pay-Pal account or Credit card, so is there a way to just send cash or money order ?

I myself prefer a disc based copy, & don't really like to down-load anything. If you guys could mail me a copy on disc (for a price of course), then that would be great. otherwise I will have to just try down-loading it.
I just have not down-loaded anything before (as I don't have a credit card or Pay-Pal account). I know, I'm just pathetic. :p

Anyway, can someone please give me more information about the Legendary/Epic Pre-order/Donation thing, & how I can send in some money ?

Thanks in advance.

[Rhis]

I am new to this board, so please excuse my ignorance. But where can I get the Legend/Epic Donation/Pre-order ?
Is it in the Contribute tab ? I've tried it, but its down.
I also don't have a Pay-Pal account or Credit card, so is there a way to just send cash or money order ?

I myself prefer a disc based copy, & don't really like to down-load anything. If you guys could mail me a copy on disc (for a price of course), then that would be great. otherwise I will have to just try down-loading it.
I just have not down-loaded anything before (as I don't have a credit card or Pay-Pal account). I know, I'm just pathetic. :p

Anyway, can someone please give me more information about the Legendary/Epic Pre-order/Donation thing, & how I can send in some money ?

Thanks in advance.

Unfortunately there have been some issues with our PayPal account. We are working on getting a new payment system up as soon as possible. Thanks for your patience.

Updates will be posted here: http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156

[climber]

Ah. I guess the issue is that I viewed it as a pre-purchase while you guys see it more as a donation. That changes it quite a bit.

I'm still iffy about handing over $50 for a product that might not see the light of day for probably 1-2 years from now. Taking a wild guess at the release date.

It does change your perspective quite a bit depending upon how you view it. There is a huge difference between donation and pre-ordering so most definitely hold off if you are unsure. I actually don't mind donating, once their site is back up for it, because the amount of hours and fun I had from TQ warrant me investing in another project of theirs. If it never sees the light of day of course I would be disappointed, not because I'm out 50-100 dollars but because of what could have been a great game and IP.

The state of PC gaming right now is extremely competitive and there is of course a possibility for the game not to make it or God forbid, fail shortly after launch as Hellgate, Earth and Beyond, Vanguard, or countless other IP's that have gone the way of the dodo. However, there is a good market currently for another dungeon crawler RPG in the spirit of Diablo and TQ. With Diablo 3 upcoming as well there will be of course some serious competition but a player driven mod community can prolong and expand a game far beyond what most large scale studios can do. So in that regard GD has some serious longevity and replayabilty going for it if they are able to implement some of the models and ideas they've been tossing around. For that alone I'm willing to donate and hope to see a new IP come to light that can place some competition in play towards the larger studios IP's.