Class themes for GD?

[medierra]

I've begun work on a couple of classes but they are not set in stone yet and the remainder of them are still sort of up in the air. I have some ideas but thought maybe you guys would have better ones.

The class idea I am most excited about right now is the "demolition" class. The skills mainly revolve around, you could probably guess this, blowing shit up and setting things on fire. I've got what I think will be the primary skill working, which is sort of like a grenade. In fact, it is currently called "grenado". The explosion is a little over the top and it is incredibly fun.

Other than that... I've got a "bending" class that I've been playing around with. Skills mostly focus around warping physical reality. Right now it is almost like the Dactyl class.

I thought a class oriented around vampirism would be cool. A character of this class wouldn't be a traditional vampire, so to speak, but as a result of possession or warp exposure would have gained an ability to control the life-force of other creatures. I think it would work well to design this class so that it was particularly suited towards melee classes.

Some sort of defensively oriented survival class would probably be appropriate to throw in the mix.

Some sort of summoning pet-oriented class?

Let me here your ideas!

[jiaco]

Not really a class suggestion but a general point, one which we discussed before on TQ.net:

Don't make skills that require specific weapon types.

Obviously bows and staffs are special, but the whole range of melee weapons needs to be skill-enhanced in a more general manner. I could never stand they way that D2 made you specialize in weapon types. In TQ, I always wanted certain hunting spear-only skills to work with swords. The axe and club specific skill also bug.

I hope that GD classes are great for making hybrids like in TQ. To further this end, it would be great to have a melee class (sort of like what Close Combat tried to be in the Masteries mod) that could be combined with magic type classes to make a melee-hybrid without having to choose warfare or defense. Of course, then you need to also be able to combine the melee class with multiple other non-mage classes also to make a wide variety of melee masteries. How many classes are there going to be in total?

[yerkyerk]

Perhaps an entire hybrid class (cultist)? I'd love to see an energy shield a la D2. Makes it finally worth spending points on mana :)
On the other hand, a blood aura would be interesting too, where you could sacrifice health to cast spells instead of energy, if you're a melee warrior. Not sure if that'd be a success. Using energy for health and health for energy could become interesting though =)
Allow intelligence to decrease the strength requirement (and vice versa). Manasteal could help deal a cultist with mages while keeping his own pool filled (especially handy if the second mastery is melee-orientated). Silence would make a good complimentary skill for such a class as well.
Perhaps 2-3 permanent pets (or better - shadowcopies of himself!) that can help the cultist tank some damage.

And definetely at least one class with tons of permanent pets! I loved the D2 necro just for having a butt-load of skeletons. Which was especially funny, though completely useless, before 1.10. I'm not sure how that'd affect performance though...
For the rest, to keep the petmancers active while overlording his minions, offer an array of buffing and debuffing spells - and perhaps scent bombs, that reduce defenses/lower resistances/damage enemies and attracts your minions to the target.

[TheRani]

Demolitions and Bending sound like fun.

I'd like a roguish class with sneaky ninja abilities like sneaking up on enemies and backstabbing them (kinda like Phantom strike from Dream, but maybe with a less insane synergy), invisibility for escaping/losing aggro - I wanna disappear in a puff of smoke. Like Flash Powder, only they can't see you anymore for a short time (or until you attack again), instead of just being confused. I want throwing weapons that are viable as a main attack, long term. Not just a poison/bleed delivery system spell ala the TQ rogue, but an actual ranged weapon type. And badarse skills that work with them and the other ranged weapons. Maybe a skill that lets you throw lots of throwing knives or shoot lots of arrows or bullets instead of just one, for some crowd control. If you want someone to cause poison and/or bleeding, here's your class, but if you do that, please make all damage types viable options in higher difficulties, and not make them suck in Legendary like in TQ. Traps are fun, but those may go better under the Demolitions class. Instead of traps, for a pet, please give them something akin to the Amazon's Decoy or the Monster Lure. Kinda like the ninja technique where an enemy hits you, thinks they got you, and it's just a log wearing your clothing, and you're secretly way over there. Anyway, I would love something like that.

Melee classes might want to combine with it for the sneak attacks or a poison or bleeding buff or something. Ranged classes would want to combine with it to beef up their ranged attacks with poison or bleeding, and crowd control, and maybe the decoy pet and sneaky getaway invisibility. Casters might want the poison or decoy (or maybe the ranged stuff would even work with staff/wand attacks?) and the sneaky getaway invisibility. Pet masters could even use it, not so much to make their pets more powerful, but to take heat off the pets with the decoy, or lose aggro via the invisibility, or poison the enemies with throwing weapons or their bow or wand or whatever while the pets eat them, etc.

[ASYLUM101]

I've begun work on a couple of classes but they are not set in stone yet and the remainder of them are still sort of up in the air. I have some ideas but thought maybe you guys would have better ones.

The class idea I am most excited about right now is the "demolition" class. The skills mainly revolve around, you could probably guess this, blowing shit up and setting things on fire. I've got what I think will be the primary skill working, which is sort of like a grenade. In fact, it is currently called "grenado". The explosion is a little over the top and it is incredibly fun.

Dude, lol. I love this idea, not only because bombs are freaking awesome, but because I created a mastery in TQ based around the concept of bombs using the poison gas bomb template, and it's FUN as hell. Have any land mines or anything in the mix? :)


I thought a class oriented around vampirism would be cool. A character of this class wouldn't be a traditional vampire, so to speak, but as a result of possession or warp exposure would have gained an ability to control the life-force of other creatures. I think it would work well to design this class so that it was particularly suited towards melee classes.


Lol, this is very reminiscent of the spirit mastery. :)

As for a pure pet mastery, I suggest throwing in other skills for flavor, because managing pets gets a little boring, they need a push. Which of course they'd get anyway since you can choose two... classes.

I wanna see healing spells and tank classes that can ACTUALLY function. The healing spells of nature from TQ were nice and all, but they really weren't necessary because the health potions were more useful anyway. And using defense as a tank didn't always pan out if you got 1 shotted by something retarded(dactyl) or someone cast a debuff and pulled the aggro off you.

Edit: I'm with therani on the whole ninja thing. haha, ninjas rule, even though I like pirates better, ninjas are fun. Rogue was one of my favorite masteries, even though it felt it was missing the rogueish aspect.

[Renevent]

Definitely need a pet class!

[medierra]

Man, its definitely tough with only 5 class slots for the initial release trying to figure out what out of many possible ideas should make the cut.

[TheRani]

Man, its definitely tough with only 5 class slots for the initial release trying to figure out what out of many possible ideas should make the cut.

Probably best to go for 1 caster (the bender?), 1 roguish/ranged type, 1 fighter/tank type, 1 pet/healer class, and the demolitions class. Save the rest of the ideas for DLC or expansions.

[yerkyerk]

Make more class slots! :D

You've already lost 3 slots for the big generic 3, the rogue/ranger, the melee (can we have 2-handed hammers?) and the spellcaster.

The demolition expert could perhaps be combined with the rogue/ranger class. The pets could fit with the spellcaster (than the petmancer can also do something while watching his pets rip the place apart :))

A hybrid would probably need its own class though.. although hybrid spells could be incorporated within each class.

[ASYLUM101]

Wait.... did some one say, the bender?

http://lovelylisting.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/bender.jpg

[medierra]

I'd love to make more slots but I think 5 is already fairly ambitious given that skill creation was the most time consuming aspect of design / implementation on TQ.

[Malpheas]

Is this game going to be slightly steam punkish?

[eisprinzessin]

summoner - summons demons (pets), has vampiric talents
saint - devine magic: healing, buffs
noble explorer - personal magic, skilled in close and range combat
scholar - uses bombs ("demolition" class) and devices, knows enemies weaknesses (attack bonuses, lowers enemy's resistances)
spy - rogue/ninja class

[ASYLUM101]

Is this game going to be slightly steam punkish?

I remember someone mentioning they were steering clear of steam punk...

Disappointing to me, but I guess it's alright. Steam punk stuff looks bad ass heh.

[Chameleon]

If there isnt a class that uses Bows as their main weapon I'm going to be sad. I love my bow class.

How about a Mimic/Transformation Class where you can learn how to change into other monsters/enemies after you fight them and absorb their life energy or something.

[medierra]

Is this game going to be slightly steam punkish?

ASYLUM101 is correct in that we're staying away from anything too steampunkish. You won't see any goblins in mech walkers or steam-powered robots. However, given the fictionalization of the pre-modern period we're drawing our inspiration from, you will see some styles semi-reminiscent of steampunk. We just won't be throwing gears and wires all over everything.

[medierra]

If there isnt a class that uses Bows as their main weapon I'm going to be sad. I love my bow class.

How about a Mimic/Transformation Class where you can learn how to change into other monsters/enemies after you fight them and absorb their life energy or something.

Would you settle for a crossbow? ; )

[MadWasp]

fan brainstorming activated:

A bow/crossbow player is a demand. :) my favourite pick (I also like melee type foes -different style)
Maybe horse as a pet? A horserider bowyer would be rock....(maybe for dlc, or exp later)
demolition perk is a good idea..with desctructable environment. If you want BIG explosion on market...


I would like to see arrow stay in wounded/agonised/dead body. (as dead mobs stay on ground as in cool TQ)+new blood pool feature of course :)
Its extremely annoying if dead ones disapeares...massively illusion killer....

-different finishing moves gives tremendous feelin'

-A zombie/skeleton summoner is also very welcome.

[MadWasp]

Oh and VERY BIG inventory GFX (UI) huge nice/2D equipment pictures with successful "tetris system"(Diablo/TQ used it just fine).

If i fight for loot I want to admire my last hard-earned one. And loot is the key in all successful arpg.

not small fly-shit inventory items 5*5 px pathetic. (I always hate miniature items+miniature info texts in Sacred/Greed inventory)

[Shattered.likeness]

Even if Crossbows are our only selection right now, I'd love to see a ranged class make the cut. Especially since the character is going to be centered on the screen now.

Another idea (gear related) that would allow for more easily making hybrid classes would be to allow 1-handed staves like in Munderbunny's UnderLord Mod or Sacred 1. Nerf the power of the staves by decreasing elemental damage or some such to allow spell casters to wear a shield. Seems like with the how the description of the game is right now, a spellcaster without a shield would be a wallking target in the world of Cairn.

Edit: Also thought of another gear idea, this time for the "Demolition" Class. Why not have another type of ranged weapon for them to use? Since we all know about the potato sacks (link (http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9)), why not let the Demolitionist have a potato cannon? Running around with a Spud-zooka would be hilarious fun, and you'd never run out of ammo with potato sacks around.

[The Swarthy One]

i'd love to see a ninja/assassin class. a character who maybe can't wear the best armor, but is agile and able to deal a huge amount of damage to one enemy.

another idea is having strength mean something more than just damage-dealing ability. incorporate the weight of the weapon (just a number, not actual coding for a physical weight) so a tank can't effectively swing a huge sword or hammer until his strength is high enough. i know TQ had something similar, but it seemed to be based on the level of the weapon rather than it's dimentions/weight.

i'll try to think of more ideas at work tomorrow. ;)

[Chameleon]

Would you settle for a crossbow? ; )

If that is all there is then I'll have to...



Edit: Also thought of another gear idea, this time for the "Demolition" Class. Why not have another type of ranged weapon for them to use? Since we all know about the potato sacks (link (http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9)), why not let the Demolitionist have a potato cannon? Running around with a Spud-zooka would be hilarious fun, and you'd never run out of ammo with potato sacks around.

lol a BFG potato canon. :D

[Shattered.likeness]

I don't expect for this to ever appear in game, but it would make a fun Easter Egg item. What else do we have to do at this early stage in development, other than to help generate new ideas? Even if they are a little "hair-brained".

[Comrade_Ajax]

Perhaps the best approach would be to initially include the typical character classes you find in most RPGs, and create more niche specializations with downloadable content packs. This would make the game accessible to players new to the Action RPG genre, but familiar with the classic tropes of other RPGs. In addition, the use of "Skill Trees" within the masteries could reduce the amount of masteries required for specific character build approaches, and diversify the resulting mastery combinations.

For example:


Soldier- Focus on proficient use of melee weaponry such as Swords, Polearms, and Axes, as well as Heavy Armor and Shields. Initial skills could boost the power and attack speed of equipped melee weaponry and the efficiency of shield blocking, and branch out into specialized fighting styles with specific weapon types. Comparable to a Warfare/Defense hybrid from TQ.

Defensive Spellcaster - Use of auras, buffs, and heals to improve the fighting and defensive abilities of the character and/or the party. In a group, it fulfill a tanking or support role depending on how skill points are allotted. Summoning creatures could also be a skill investment.

Offensive Spellcaster - Typical elemental magic user, specializing in one or more forms of destructive (or perhaps constructive - synergy with Defensive Spellcaster?) spells. Summons could be drawn from the elemental specializations (Golems/Elementals). This could be seen as a combination of Earth, Nature, and Storm from TQ. Note: Other types of offensive spellcasting would be featured under separate masteries (Dark/Light magic, "Bending" magic, Dream magic, etc).

Rogue - Focus on non-conventional combat, allowing for sneak attacks and adaptability. Could specialize in the use of poison, stealth and subversion, or understanding enemies (critical hits/dodge bonuses). Small and quick melee weaponry or long range weaponry would be ideal for such a class. Skills would be similar to those of the Hunting and Rogue masteries in TQ.

Mechanist - Effective use of firearms or other complex equipment (Not just weapons/armor, but maybe Binoculars and other contraptions), creation and use of traps and explosives, and so on. The standard warrior may not be able to use certain items that a Mechanist could (INT Requirement?). A nifty class that would fit well with any other discipline (Rogue/Mechanist = Scout, Spellcaster/Mechanist = Alchemist, Soldier/Mechanist = Weapon Master[?]) and have high synergy bonuses, despite having little in the way of standalone offensive or defensive abilities.

Without knowing more than a little about the proposed changes to the established TQ formula, or the restrictions or your project, I can't go into much more detail than what I have presented. I hope you all find my opinions to be of some use.

EDIT: I probably didn't read the thread thoroughly enough, so my offerings may be a bit off topic.

[Malpheas]

Running around with a Spud-zooka would be hilarious fun

Best. Idea. Ever.

On the topic of steam punk. I was just wondering about the use of machinery. Personally I'm all into the steam powered thing, but not so much as an overt mix of fantasy and only warped contraption-esque motif... but more of a "Our weapons of war are steam driven (the really large train-like ones)". Kind of an undercurrent.

I am looking for a little mix of technology and history. At least... that's without having seen anything.

[sharbu]

Surely someone has considered the option of a class based around Mary Shelley's masterpiece......hell, there's even a TQ type reference in there! (Prometheus for those too lazy to look it up).

I can't think of a "victorian pet" in myth and legend more apropos of this setting. Just the one pet mind you, but he's a doozy.

[Father Squid]

Well, I actually gave this some thought today, and considering the Victorian era you are inspired by in your game world, there are a few possibilities that might work...

This was an age of spiritualists, mediums, occultists, etc... I think either of these would work well merging with your 'bender' idea and you also have the traveling snake oil salesman and charlatan that were around at this time - the idea of such a character leaning towards good or evil would be interesting as well...

Someone mentioned the explorer being a good class idea, and I tend to agree with that. It was the age of exploration with expeditions to all corners of the world - Africa, the Poles, Asia, etc... the idea of the great white hunter / scout / explorer is truly a Victorian ideal, this could definitely tie into using firearms since that was also a new thing as well, and if you think of the same period, you also had American wild West with characters such as Wild Bill, Buffalo Bill, Annie Oakley, Billy the Kid, etc... everyone a figure on the new frontier, everyone deadly with their guns...

I like the idea of a summoner, but instead of pets, I really feel this should be leaning towards the idea of demons, devils, or ghosts... A class like a cabalist / qabalist or diabalist (someone who deals with devils / demons) or a medium that can summon spirits, haunts or ghostly powers would be a neat twist - I don't necessarily think they should be tied to the healer class however... a nice black magic twist would be cool in my mind... again, the option of pursuing evil or good would be neat here...

The mechanist was also mentioned, but to me this was more the age of invention - and you had characters like George Eastman, Thomas Edison, and Bell all developing mechanical contraptions that would change the world... You already mentioned that you were including blueprints in the game - maybe the class could be some sort of tinker, with a wide variety of skills that are far ranging and allow for a dynamic character unlike any other typical class.

Again, you almost do need some sort of tank / combat oriented class - and in the real world this would have to be the soldier of some sort. Every country had its army or navy, and half the world was at war with someone or other. Conflict was rife and the soldier was the workhorse of the colonial powers.

That leaves me with one lone area - the typical healer class - and I think an interesting option here could be the man of faith / man of science. Both were widely prevalent in the Victorian era, both were often in conflict with the other... but it would be so interesting to have this option where you could choose one of these paths based on your actions in-game...

[sharbu]

I agree with Father Squid, and who wouldn't? Exploring victorian literature is probably the best best for thematically correct classes, even if actually implementing them is really hard.

The occult (no, not that Occult), spiritualists, Alchemy, Dracula, Frankenstein, Sherlock Holmes, Jekyll and Hyde, Phileas Fogg, The Invisible Man, Jack the Ripper, HG Wells (slightly late, but good ideas), Quatermain, absolutely ANYTHING from Edgar Allen Poe etc.

How to expand any concept into a playable class with enough skills across so many levels is beyond me at the moment mind you!

[LeStryfe79]

More specifically, a badass melee fighter(doesn't have to use a whip) who uses all kinds of subweapon type skills for various ranged attacks. All of the more recent handheld Castlevanias have had excellent skill systems for their characters, plus a character along these lines would probably fit into Grim Dawn's lore.

Also, I'm not sure if this was mentioned before, but Solomon Kane could definitely serve as some class inspiration.

[yerkyerk]

Let's not forget

Ichabod Crane
http://thewholegardenwillbow.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/sleepy-hollow_l.jpg

and Van Helsing
http://iwatchfilm.com/content/default/english/images/movies/40095_3.jpg

[medierra]

Currently scrambling to get some work done but I'm looking forward to reading this all in detail once I finish.

[Ironwind]

I'd love to see a "Gentlemen" class. An ode to your typical English gentlemen hero in traditional Victorian horror films and novels. His strengths are in his wits and his intellect. A potion brewing, black powder pistol toting hero. Peter Cushing anyone?
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab3/Ironwind1972/VampireLoversThe-PeterCushinghead.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab3/Ironwind1972/vanhelsi.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab3/Ironwind1972/cushing2.jpg

[Iceciro]

I wholeheartedly support the Gentleman class, perhaps with the demolitions being a tree of that class.

He needs to be able to use Bartitsu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartitsu) to melee things to death with a cane.

[Void(null)]

There always has to be some form of glass cannon blaster type, and the Tank type, its pretty much par of the course:



http://z.about.com/d/diyfashion/1/0/H/H/-/-/steampunk_hat_10.jpg
http://graphicsworkshop.net/blog/Images/dantescostume.jpg


And this is just a great picture

A buffing class, something to play support in multiplayer, perhaps even run the pet class and support class in one so they could support there pets or a team.

http://boyofbow13.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/steampunk-officer.jpg

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2007/10/30/steampunk-spider_54.jpg

[Sandirk]

For a Pet class was having a look through victorian era stuff and came accross Darwin and the origin of species,

was thinking about an Evolutionist as a class that that could summon/tame a animal or being and then being able have them grow with you, sort of like a cross between a hunter in WoW and Pokemon.

being able to speed up the evolutionary process and give the pet different roles and skill depending on what areas you focus on evolving in the form of permanant buffs.

as for the evolutionist its self i am guessing a spellcaster type focusing on Debuff (de-evolution) attacks and maybe being able to evole as well.

[LeStryfe79]

Yeah, that evolutionist sounds like a great idea, Sandirk

[Void(null)]

For a Pet class was having a look through victorian era stuff and came accross Darwin and the origin of species,

was thinking about an Evolutionist as a class that that could summon/tame a animal or being and then being able have them grow with you, sort of like a cross between a hunter in WoW and Pokemon.

being able to speed up the evolutionary process and give the pet different roles and skill depending on what areas you focus on evolving in the form of permanant buffs.

as for the evolutionist its self i am guessing a spellcaster type focusing on Debuff (de-evolution) attacks and maybe being able to evole as well.

I really like that idea. But the point of "Animals or Machine summoners" often works as a point of contention that will put players off Class X. Generally people who like giant robots and death machines, are not the same that want wild a trained Tiger or a Gorilla following them.

How about splitting the evolutionist tree off into branches, of lets say... Naturalist & Mechanist.

Naturalists would trap, tame and train animals, mechanist would build and upgrade Steam Punk style machines. And the evolution buffs could work for either/or ?

So they would all run under the evolutionist umbrella, but afford players freedom of choice and give a variaty of differing styles of "pets" both traditional, and non.

[Sandirk]

sure i can see what you are saying

maybe we can mix them , like sharks with fricken' laser beams on there heads:D

seriously though i thought they were attempting to limit steampunk, so clockwork/steam driven constucts might be a bit out of place but if it fits into the lore i can see that working.

with the limited classes at launch having things that could entertain as many preferances as possible without watering down things can only be a good thing.

i enjoyed the magic vs tech in arcanium and the way you never really missed out on anything no matter what way you went, so it just came down to feel.
like for healing there was health potions and salves. one magic the other science but they both had the same result.

[Void(null)]

Agreed, Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura really did hit that perfect balance point between Magic & Tech.

Mergeing animals and science could also be fun... why am I picturing Mary Shelley's Frankenstein?

[Father Squid]

How about splitting the evolutionist tree off into branches, of lets say... Naturalist & Mechanist.

Naturalists would trap, tame and train animals, mechanist would build and upgrade Steam Punk style machines. And the evolution buffs could work for either/or ?

So they would all run under the evolutionist umbrella, but afford players freedom of choice and give a variaty of differing styles of "pets" both traditional, and non.

Again, this seems to be an ideal case where if possible the way you play your game would affect your skills - if your actions lead towards one side, your skills exhibit a naturalistic tendency when used, if you tend towards another style of play, your skills exhibit a more mechanical twist when utilized ... I know there are games before that have tried this kind of thing, but I think it would be ideal for a game such as this. It allows widens the replay value since you would have to change your play style to achieve certain skills...

[Renevent]

I like the idea of a summoner, but instead of pets, I really feel this should be leaning towards the idea of demons, devils, or ghosts... A class like a cabalist / qabalist or diabalist (someone who deals with devils / demons) or a medium that can summon spirits, haunts or ghostly powers would be a neat twist - I don't necessarily think they should be tied to the healer class however... a nice black magic twist would be cool in my mind... again, the option of pursuing evil or good would be neat here...

Yes please! I think I had my fill of pets like wolves and such after Titan Quest...master of the undead sounds perfect for Grim Dawn :p

[Sandirk]

How about splitting the evolutionist tree off into branches, of lets say... Naturalist & Mechanist.

Naturalists would trap, tame and train animals, mechanist would build and upgrade Steam Punk style machines. And the evolution buffs could work for either/or ?

So they would all run under the evolutionist umbrella, but afford players freedom of choice and give a variaty of differing styles of "pets" both traditional, and non.

I agree with Father Squid on this having the class shaped by how you play would be an interesting way to go and would make replay more varied.

i see the potential for 3 sub-classes
- the naturalist - pure nature
- the mechanist - pure science
- the hybrid - a mix of both allowing for merging of science and nature that Void(null) mentioned.

having to balance a cybernetic dire badger with side mounted incendary grenado launcher can be someone elses problem :rolleyes:

[Void(null)]

i see the potential for 3 sub-classes
- the naturalist - pure nature
- the mechanist - pure science
- the hybrid - a mix of both allowing for merging of science and nature that Void(null) mentioned.



It could also be done fairly easily with skinning.

Take the Giant Spider in the picture for example.

They could create a single spider mesh, and have its texture triggered by what branch you go down.

1 Mesh, 3 textures (Natural, Augmented or Machine) and each of those would have its own strengths, weaknesses & resistances, allowing the player to fill the role of Beast Master/Mad Scientist/Brilliant Engineer all determined by a single class.

I guess how which one is picked could be determined by a trigger skill picked at level X, that would lock off adding points into the other specializations.

A similar mechanic could be used by all the classes, to add variance and flavor while keeping the number of actual classes low.

[Sandirk]

I like how your mind works Void(null)

that method would allow for a good amount of variety while still leaving the core skill workable with whichever branch you choose.

using the same idea with all the classes also has the potential to add a lot of different combos when taking the duel class thing into consideration.

[Confuted]

I've always wanted a character that could transform into stuff; a mastery that has an upside of giving your character a unique look against your fellow party members.

Obviously we could have the character transform into a werewolf, bat, or a demon thing with 4 legs and 2 arms and giant claws or jaws...leap ability?

Implementing the OP: Could also implement a sort of vampire-ism to that same skill tree. Lets say, you transform into a demon creature. By transforming you deal more bleed damage and heal % damage of bleed. The player can also passively summon non permanent blood demons from the blood spilled. The more blood on the field the more creatures and more powerful they are; if the player stops killing, the creatures die off. Also there can be a skill where the creatures could feed off the player's blood to stay more permanent.
____________

How about a mastery that can control gravity? black holes?
Example: light weight mobs spawn on the edge of a cliff. Player creates gravity over the cliff thus launching them over the edge. Heavier mobs won't be affected...maybe slowed.

[Void(null)]

I like how your mind works Void(null)

that method would allow for a good amount of variety while still leaving the core skill workable with whichever branch you choose.

using the same idea with all the classes also has the potential to add a lot of different combos when taking the duel class thing into consideration.

Dankies.

Lets see what else we can all mull around and come up with! The brainstorming seems to be working well so far.

How about expanding on the idea of a specialization system?

Lets see:

Specializations are a means to add flavor to character classes without placing a major burden upon the art department or requiring the creation of a multitude of new skills.

Each character class is broken into Its base class, then its specialization. Base skills work with all of the specializations, what the specialization does is alter cosmetics or type based effects.

Not an actual class suggestion. Only meant to demonstrate how specialization could be used and the effect it could have.

Exempli gratia.

Base Class: Magi
Specializations: Cultist, Necromancer, Infernalist

The Magi base class is your standard fantasy fare, a class that focuses on Elemental damage.

The Cultist deals in deception and poisons.

The Necromancer in Death and Darkness

The Infernalist on commanding the powers of hell.

The Magi has a base skill to cast a Fireball, a targeted AoE ability that will explode in a burst of fire damage.

Fireball:
Range 100 feet
Burst Radius: 40 Feet
Damage: 100 points direct damage
Damage Type: Fire

By placing points into a specialization, the class takes on a filter that will color it in a new way. The skills remain the same in terms of there placement in the skill tree and the role they play, but they achieve that goal in slightly different ways.

Had the player placed points into the cultist specialization, Fireball would instead be renamed Poison Cloud.

Poison Cloud:
Range 100 feet
Burst Radius: 40 Feet
Damage: 75 points DD + 10 points DoT for 5 seconds.
Damage Type: Poison

Poison Cloud deals less damage up front, but will deal additional damage over time.


The Necromancer would be receive Drain life:

Drain Life:
Range 100 feet
Burst Radius: 30 Feet
Damage: 75 points DD
Damage Type: Negative Energy
Benefit: Heals player for 5% of the total damage to all enemies within the AoE.

Drain Life uses a smaller burst radius and deals less damage, but will heal the player for every MoB it hits.


The Infernalist receives Hellish Rain:

Hellish Rain:
Range 100 feet
Burst Radius: 50 Feet
Damage: DoT 30 over 5 seconds
Damage Type: Hellfire

Hellish rain deals no direct damage, but has a larger AoE and deals the greatest damage of all, but over time.


Depending upon how many zots the art department has, would determine the visual variance between the above skills. The same VFX could be used with a different color, or each could be given there own style of VFX.

Obviously not all skills would need to morph to such a degree, in most instances changing elemental type to damage or resistance would give enough variance, but the above example was to demonstrate the greatest effect that specialization could have over the same skill, and it could be accomplished with the simple use of script hooks.

One could even break the skill system into Base skills and Morphic Specialist skills. So that base skills would remain the same regardless. There is no need to have a skill that increases the regen rate of mana, be different for each flavor:

Arcane Channel:

"The $classname taps into their source of power and will regenerate mana at a rate of 5% for 10 seconds, as long as the caster is not in combat."


And Morphic specialist skills could change dramatically like the Fireball example listed above.


Mechanics of the Specialization itself.

Titan Quest treated your Mastery as its own skill. The more points you placed into it, the more skills you could use and the more powerful you became.

Specialization could be an offset to this system. Specialization would simply be a skill like any other, by choosing one specialization it would lock out the others. Each point you place into that skill would increase your effectiveness with X damage type/resistance type (and perhaps decrease your effectiveness with others.)

Edit: A neat idea that would probably be too time consuming for an aesthetic benefit.

Each X amount of points placed into a Specialization could effect the PC's visual appearance. So the Cultist slowly becomes more sunken and deranged looking, the Necromancer begins to resemble a corpse, the Infernalist takes on demonic traits etc.

[andreyy]

The problem I see with some of the classes suggested here is that they clash. Say, we have a Vampire class, like Medierra suggested in the first post. How would you merge that with some priest, crusader, divine warrior, etc.? Kinda contradictory. Thus, I'd rather suggest making more depersonalised classes, like in TQ. Blood instead of vampirism. Light instead of priests and 'holiness'. Making too sharp and too distinct classes just doesn't go well with the idea of crossing them.

But that's not my decision, eh? I'd be grateful for a clarification from a Crate employee, so that we know what we're talking about.

From the scraps of information and artworks I have read and saw, it seems to me the game shall be medieval themed (the equipment, architecture and all). That gave me an idea of a caster (mainly) class - Exorcism. Curses, exorcisms, inquisition all that stuff. Some AoE buffs (inspire nearby allies, by babbling about god, faith and satan) and debuffs (yell at the enemy: "DIE, INCARNATION OF BEELZEBUB!"). I'd put a few fire spells into this class, it matches the theme, imho. And I don't mean The Holy Inquisition and their stakes.

---------------------------------------------

On a side note, I disagree with the fellow, forum member, who said classes shouldn't be weapon oriented. Partly. The whole skill tree shouldn't be subordinated to a weapon type, of course, but a player, who wants to play with bow/crossbow/staff/sword/whatever should be able to do so! Another thing - specialisation adds flavour to classes. What would the HoMMV priest/inquisitor be without his hammer? Heck, what would be a Defence-oriented TQ hero without it? Contrary, how would a rogue or an assassin look like with a huge, blunt weapon instead of a dagger? The counterargument, probably, will be, that these are limits, it limits your freedom. Yes it does. Walking, instead of flying, also does. Games without limits, mostly, suck. Who likes those 'sandbox' modes? Barely anyone. Limitations force creativity, in my opinion.

To make it short, keep some weapon-specific stuff here and there.

[Sandirk]

Lets see:

Specializations are a means to add flavor to character classes without placing a major burden upon the art department or requiring the creation of a multitude of new skills.

Each character class is broken into Its base class, then its specialization. Base skills work with all of the specializations, what the specialization does is alter cosmetics or type based effects.



i like the breakdown for how the specializations can effect skills, using your example you could also run a vanilla Magi and stick with the fireball and plain elemental attacks.

which brings me to my next idea.
with specializations you could have a passive pro/con effect which makes choosing one over the vanilla base class effect the character a bit more of a discision.

example.

Warrior -Base Class
Melee combatant proficent in all armor and weapons

Ability - Strike
Direct damage attack

Paladin - Spec Class
Melee combatant adding holy power to attack and defence
Class Pasive Skill-
Pro - adds 10% dmg vs undead/demons, adds 10% protection vs undead/demons
Con - Honorbound - can not turn down a quest from good npc, can not accept quest from known evil npc.

Ability - Holy Strike
Direct damage attack (coverts 50% weapon damage to holy)

Beserker - Spec Class
Melee combatant favoring lighter armor and dual weapons
Class Passive Skill-
Pro - add 5% weapon damage , adds 3% crit chance, adds 2% extra damage per 10% loss of health i.e at 70% health add 6% extra damage.
Con- cant use sheilds, add 25% to armor requirements i.e armor requiring 100 str would require 125 instead

Ability - Dual Strike
Direct damage attack (30% chance to strike with both weapons at the same time.)

Weapon Master
Melee combatant focusing on weapon type to the detriment of all others
Class Passive-
Pro- chosen weapon type gets -15% on all requirments, adds 3%crit with chosen weapon, adds 5% extra physical damage with chosen weapon type.
Con - cant use any weapons except chosen weapon type.

Ability - Master Strike
Direct damage attack (20% chance to strike a second time straight after)

Note : all skills and effects are just examples they may be very unbalanced.

[eisprinzessin]

The problem I see with some of the classes suggested here is that they clash. Say, we have a Vampire class, like Medierra suggested in the first post. How would you merge that with some priest, crusader, divine warrior, etc.? Kinda contradictory. Thus, I'd rather suggest making more depersonalised classes, like in TQ. Blood instead of vampirism. Light instead of priests and 'holiness'. Making too sharp and too distinct classes just doesn't go well with the idea of crossing them.

Furthermore, you need to separate the basic masteries from the final classes. As GD will starts with 5 masteries, there will be only 10 classes. They must not be all-embracing, or there will not be any space for new masteries in the add-ons.

I'm not very keen on the above mentioned specialisations. I'd prefer the path system from the masteries mod. You can learn any path but activate only one at a time.

Would it be fun, if each class unlocks a third skill section - one that is specific to each class? These sections had skills, which would clash with other masteries. The basic masteries would have less skills (or levelling would require less skill points) then.

[ExNomenDei]

15 classes actually.

You've got (5*4)/2 types of dual-classes, and 5 types of single-classes. In Titan Quest, with 9 different classes, that made for a whopping 45 different classes( (9*8)/2+9 ).

What would be nice to see is classes having a direct effect on how your character looks and behaves. Like a warrior having more muscles, walking faster, and really fitting the unqiue armor he wears. It might be hard to implement this at all, let alone in a way that makes any kind of sense. I also like the idea of skills being changeable be choosing your alignment with something (nature vs. mechanics, good vs. evil, fire-caster vs. ice-caster vs. lightning caster) but what I would like most is for some cool ways of making your character look unique.

[Scryer]

Scryer's Almost Perfect ranged class.

Alright, there should be a kind of ranged bow class in every game! So let me explain how to make an absolutely over the top awesome bad-ass Ranger!

First of all, before we continue, I think it is best to say that Ammo is really annoying for a ranged class, and should be re-designed in terms of how it works for the Ranger class.

Ammo as modifications for they player's base abilities. Essentially ammo should be unlimited, but the player's ammo should also have various enchantments on it in which to use their skills with.

Types of Ammo -

Poison Ammo

Fire Ammo

Arcane/Shadow/Light Ammo (which ever element is in the game)

Ice Ammo

and Rare Higher-level dual-purpose Ammo that have 2 different types of purposes applied to them like Poison and Ice of Fire and Shadow.

On top of ammo's main re-design it should also have stats that are random that allow the player to customize their Weapon and Ammo.

On top of that the player should be able to summon a pet. Then the skills will deal with giving the player's pet specific skills and giving the player specific skills. I'd prefer this class to use a bear as his main ally and be a sort of meat shield at higher levels.

Skills that the bear could get -

Sweeping Attack - An attack that deals x% of player weapon damage to a range of enemies.

Invigorate - The bear grows ferociously angry and increases attack speed and run speed by x% for 10 seconds.

Elemental Attacks - The bear gains elemental attack damage based on the player's ammo by x% of increased damage.

Quivering Roar - The bear Roars in fury causing enemies to flee from it for 7 seconds once the affect wears of it slows enemies by 50% for 6 seconds.

Armored Spiked Hide - Increases the bears total health, armor, and causes the bear 's hide to deal damage to melee attackers, it deals x% of damage back to the enemy.

Skills for the ranged player, these skills change effect depending on the type of ammo equipped -

Multi-guided Shot - The player shots X arrows dealing x% of weapon damage, these arrows follow to the enemy and deal elemental damage based on ammo.

Explosive Shot - Player shoots a massive explosive shot at the enemy dealing AoE damage based on X% of weapon damage and causes elemental damage based on the ammo.

Whirl-wind Shot - Ammo swirls around the player creating an AOE damaging effect that does elemental damage based on ammo and damage based on a x% of the weapon.

Sanctuary shot - Knocks back all enemies close enough to the player, the player then attacks every enemy within range dealing x% weapon damage and x% elemental damage from ammo. Sanctuary shot creates a small area that enemies can't enter until the ability is finished - 30 second cool down.

There's more I wanted write... but this is just the basic idea.

[Sandirk]

The problem I see with some of the classes suggested here is that they clash. Say, we have a Vampire class, like Medierra suggested in the first post. How would you merge that with some priest, crusader, divine warrior, etc.? Kinda contradictory. Thus, I'd rather suggest making more depersonalised classes, like in TQ. Blood instead of vampirism. Light instead of priests and 'holiness'. Making too sharp and too distinct classes just doesn't go well with the idea of crossing them.



I can see what you mean but i dont really see the need to go down that road. i know they are using victorian era as inspiration, but the setting is not earth therefore the deity structure could be vastly different.
so having a vampire crusader/priest doesnt matter as there could be a evil deity or a vampire deity for all we know .( also even if we were using earth not all preists are good, like the ones that interfere with kids so why would cairn be any different)

sure if you had a "pure good" mastery and a "pure evil" mastery it could cause a bit of a clash but it doubt it would be so clear cut.

[andreyy]

Scryer, cut down on the introductions and just post the actual material.

The skills are actually pretty generic - explosive arrows/bolts (crossbows, eh), guided arrows, whirlwind arrows (stupid idea, imo, it would look weird)...

I'm not that fond of the infinite quivers idea, it's pretty bad lore-wise. Like your hero was constantly manufacturing those arrows to fill the quiver up.

I'd rather go this way - give the ranger hero (however he'd look like) a dozen of activable attack enchancers (they could also be assigned to left mouse button, mana would be drained on attack) - fire, ice, poison, whatever. While one of them is active, all the arrows, from normal attack and spells, would do 'something'. So, a homing arrow, while the poison thing is applied, would also poison. An explosive shoct would either cause a fiery big boom, a frost nova or let out a poisonous cloud.

[Scryer]

I've always liked the idea of kind of mana-bow class, not like a mage or wizard, but that focused on ranged blast attacks.

[jiaco]

I think if someone wants to spam the forum with posts such as this, they need to expect to get some "opposite" opinions thrown at them. So far, the criticism seems "fair". But measures will be taken (to either/both side(s)) if things get out of hand.

This forum is to discuss ARPG ideas, so lets continue the discussion/debate but politely.

[Roros]

I tend to gravitate towards AoE in any game if it's available and viable (sometimes even when it's not), and I'm quick to pick "the aoe class" if there is one.

Generally I just really like skills that become more useful the more in trouble you are; something that scales off of how many monsters are around (a basic aoe is a good example of this as it's damage is technically multiplied by how many monsters you can fit in it's area), how low your health is, or how often your party is taking damage. It's just really fun to be overwhelmed and wonder if you're going to make it, and see your "o sh-" skill light up.


I'd also like to spare a thought about the "boring" archetypes that people often hate to play; healers and tanks. I find that these classes are only a chore to play if they've been made as just plain healers and tanks. I've had a lot of fun playing them in games when the tank is - say - a support hybrid, or when the healer has more proactive skills like a damage reflect, emit heals to the entire team when taking damage, and disables/debuffs.
As an example, I absolutely hate "buffs" when it requires you to target each individual player and set it off every 5 minutes, but find it outright fun and satisfying if it's - say - a shorter duration, more significant buff that's cast in a pbaoe around yourself.

[Iceciro]

I always, always, always support buff classes/skills either being AoE buffs, or having really long durations.

I HATE being the buff-bot, putting a new shield on someone every 10 seconds.

[ASYLUM101]

I've always liked the idea of kind of mana-bow class, not like a mage or wizard, but that focused on ranged blast attacks.

I dunno what you mean by blast attacks, but in TQ I always mixed my hunter with a mage class, like storm or earth for an intelligence based hunter which I have found to be far superior than your typical hunter.


I always, always, always support buff classes/skills either being AoE buffs, or having really long durations.

I HATE being the buff-bot, putting a new shield on someone every 10 seconds.
Reply With Quote

Yeah, I enjoy games that have buff classes, I normally try to grab skills that buff my allies. TQ did fairly well in this aspect but some skills were not helpful. (Battle Awareness, Focus synergy did nothing for hunters and mages, storm nimbus did not target allies, energy shield did next to nothing, heat shield was overpowered, herbal remedy had a SHORT life span on early levels...)



Generally I just really like skills that become more useful the more in trouble you are; something that scales off of how many monsters are around (a basic aoe is a good example of this as it's damage is technically multiplied by how many monsters you can fit in it's area), how low your health is, or how often your party is taking damage. It's just really fun to be overwhelmed and wonder if you're going to make it, and see your "o sh-" skill light up.

That's a pretty neat idea. I like the idea of context sensitive abilities. Getting hit alot? Charge up your static blast and unleash a massive AOE!(storm surge) Have a shield? Counter shield block for extra cool points! Near a tree? Do a backflip and back stab the guy! lol, etc. It's a really awesome idea I think it's just hard to pull off.


I'd also like to spare a thought about the "boring" archetypes that people often hate to play; healers and tanks. I find that these classes are only a chore to play if they've been made as just plain healers and tanks. I've had a lot of fun playing them in games when the tank is - say - a support hybrid, or when the healer has more proactive skills like a damage reflect, emit heals to the entire team when taking damage, and disables/debuffs.
As an example, I absolutely hate "buffs" when it requires you to target each individual player and set it off every 5 minutes, but find it outright fun and satisfying if it's - say - a shorter duration, more significant buff that's cast in a pbaoe around yourself.

I dunno, I enjoy both healing and tanking. In TQ it wasn't done very well, but it was fun. Early on playing as a nature character was great, because it meant life or death for your allies. Cyclops? Not with me around! HEAL! And defenders played pretty good tanks later on. Early on, defenders weren't great at tanking, at least not until they got a decent shield or maxed focus. Also because they couldn't really draw aggro. I'd like to see better aggro management for tanks in TQ.

As for the buffs... eh. I don't mind the buffs that needed to be reactivated like heat shield, provided they're worth something. Again, using tq as a reference because that's the only arpg I've actually enjoyed in a while(TL was boring, S2 was buggy, Silverfall was....interesting., etc) heat shield was one of the only one of these types of skills worth reactivating for the minor bit of damage resistance it provided. Similar skills, herbal remedy for example, hardly seemed worth grabbing after early normal difficulty.

[Panthro]

Just had a quick read through this, and the one that stands out for me are the various variations on scholar/mechanist/demolitions...

If I could make one suggestion, perhaps just using the term "Scientist" as the catch all term?

Then you could have your Naturalist, Mechanist etc. specialisations move from that.

As a scientist myself, I'd love to be able to play as a Victorean-era scientist, the ideas so far have been amazing.

Frankenstein-eqse monster to be your melee help, strange concoctions to transform you into a "Mr. Hyde" character, ways to improve your arms and armour... the possibilities are varied and plentiful.

[Roros]

Near a tree? Do a backflip and back stab the guy! lol, etc. It's a really awesome idea I think it's just hard to pull off.

What I had in mind wasn't intricate stuff like that. Just simple skill criteria like a nuke dealing more damage the lower your health is, a buff that can only be set off if you take X hits within 5 seconds, or a skill that only lights up when a party member dies.

[ASYLUM101]

What I had in mind wasn't intricate stuff like that. Just simple skill criteria like a nuke dealing more damage the lower your health is, a buff that can only be set off if you take X hits within 5 seconds, or a skill that only lights up when a party member dies.

I know, but I'm just giving examples of a context sensitive ability.

[warlord_smith]

Here are some ideas for 5 different classes. I have tried to make each class diverse from a “role-players point of view”, as you can shape the personality like you want. None of the characters are really evil/good. I have tried to make each class interesting at its own, but even more fascinating if it was combined with another class. In each class there are 3 skill-trees. I hope you can see a lot of great roles by mixing the different classes; it should cover most of your needs. By the way, the names was just something I came up with really fast, I just wrote them so you would understand my thought better.

Cursed:
A vampire kind of class. It is a cursed character, which means you don’t have to be really “evil”, although someone who sacrifices his enemies to make them fight for him, sounds pretty wicked in my head.

Berserker: After the player has lost a special amount of health, or dealt a special amount of dmg, the player turns into some kind of “were-vampire”/monsterbat/ kind of thing. Or maybe more Jekyll and hyde, so you have to drink a potion to become this monster.
Drainer: This tree is based on draining the life/skill/energy/whatever, out of the opponents.
Sacrificer: So this person is cursed and stuff, maybe he can control the dead, but he has to sacrifice someone first, so you can only summon the corpses of those you already killed.

Weapon specialist:
This character is the “Normal” fighter kind of person, unless you combine him with any other class.

Gunslinger: the title says it, a tree where you specialize in guns, you should be able to carry rifles, two handguns, or one handgun and a sword (or axe? Wouldn’t that be awesome?)
Warrior: Specialize in swords/axes/daggers/clubs whatever you like to hit people with.
Scout: use bow/xbow and traps, but also skills to hide and move faster etc.

Geek (scientist):
This character is an inventor, and uses the experiments in battle.
Demolition: making “bombs” or at least make things explode.
Poison: make poison for your weapons, traps, and different weird things you can throw at your opponent.
Super armor/mechanical enchantment: enchanting yourself, focused on armor and shields etc, maybe some mechanic stuff, although that would maybe be to steam punkish.

Bender:
This character is in some way able to channel the new twisting powers that has to come to the land.
Mutation: Bend the laws of biology. Mutate yourself or your opponent.
Anti-physic: Bend the laws of physic. Bend the rules of space/ time. Slow down your enemies, speed up yourself. Remove gravity in certain areas, or throw enemies around as you like, remove the force that binds the molecules of your opponent together.
Manipulater: manipulate with nature. Make beasts fight for you, make plants/earth fight for you. Wouldn’t it be awesome if you could make the earth swallow an enemy or two? Or just control enemies.

Occultist:
This Character sees himself as “sacred” in some way, be it by his twisted dark gods, who finally gave him the powers he craved for, or be it a blessing from a loving god. In either way he is probably just a religious person twisted by the new forces.
Summoner: Summon all kinds of demons and twisted creatures.
Frost channeler: Use your body as a medium for the power of ice and frost. Many CC-based attacks.
Flame channeler: Again use yourself as a medium, but for the power of fire. Many dmg attack, eventually on yourself too.

These classes should be great for making just the character you want in the twisted war of Grim Dawn.

[Iceciro]

One of my favorite skills in City of was "Vengeance". Whenever a party member died, you could use this buff on all the surviving party members to give them a large bonus in attack/damage/defense for a short time, often enough to clear the offending group minus the loss of the vital player so you could safely raise them back to fight. It would be a neat toy for a game like this, where the monsters are scaled for you to have a certain number of players, and the loss of one can (and should!) hurt.

[Scryer]

Only thing is, you don't want people to be committing suicide just for the sake of an attack/defense bonus.

The idea does have some merit - if the bonus isn't excessive to the point that it is what they'll need to win then it's actually pretty cool.

But in games like this, often getting back to your party members is pretty quick so I'm not sure if it could be implemented without someone thinking of the idea to constantly suicide just to give the party this buff then quickly get back to the group.

So, it seems like it might promote a behavior that is not necessarily productive.

[Roros]

Obviously that goes for any emergency skill, it all depends on how the death penalty (a touchy subject I might rant more about later. For the sake of example, I use the term loosely and consider just simply having to run back through your town portal a death penalty) and skill actually works.

I feel there are two kinds of emergency skills; The ones that raise the stakes (say a stacking HP regen per nearby enemy; you gain a benefit from putting yourself at risk), and the ones that act as a contingency for when things don't go as planned (like a self-rez+buff with a 30 minute cooldown).

[Scryer]

Hmm... Class Themes.

Alright, I think here's some that I can think of.

Meta-Ranger - Hero uses Ammo / Ranged Weapon set-up.

- Ammo's have varied and interesting uses for the player, is permanent, and can have other modifiers then just their elemental use.

- Skills for this class are like a ranger class mixed with a reality-bending class except the meta-ranger effects the enemies in reality bending ways.

- Defensive abilities are much more close proximity which means the class could use an internal pet.

- Skills can be built around the hero and the pet and are equally balanced between the pet and character.

- Player uses his ranged weapon to deal damage but skills can be used to bend reality in favor of the character. It's kind of like shooting an area of effect missile that creates a bubble around the enemies slowing them, or causing other effects.

(I like ranged classes..)

Arbiter - Hero is a kind of holy force empowered by residual energies, he uses this power in all manner of melee battle.

- Uses fist weapons, pole-arms, and staff weapons.

- Character has skills that can change the chemical composition of his enemies making them much easier to strike down.

- A melee skill can be used to change the chemical composition of the enemy, once they die they they explode dealing AoE damage to other enemies.

- An AoE skill can change enemies into freezing ice thus slowing their movements.

- A skill like disintegration field would work well with this hero - he changes the air around him to that of pure intense flame causing AoE damage and obliterating ranged attacks for a short time.

- Changing the chemical make-up of the ground in his immediate area causing enemies to be stuck in place for a short time.

[Disturbed]

Its not a class idea but a class skill idea for the "demolition" class here it goes: if there were some findable blueprints for new weapons (bombs of some sort) the class would be able to pick up remains from dead enemies (brains, body liquids like and acid of some sort ) and those combined with iron would create more powerfull bombs

[4987354987]

We need:
Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Demoman, Heavy Weapons Guy, Engineer, Medic, Sniper, Spy.
oh and of course THE CIVILIAN!!!

Now the on-topic part: I have no idea. I think you guys make it better than me.
About the "dactyl" allusion: PLEASE don't make such monsters in Grim Down. Make tough, high damaging monsters, but not god-like ones.

[TiLT]

How about a psionic kind of character, if it fits with the setting? If it doesn't, make it mind-focused magic instead.

The focus of the class would be mind control. This means he would be able to "possess" enemy creatures, perhaps turning half of an enemy mob against the other half. Crowd-control would be the order of the day, being able to stun and paralyze enemies with powerful shocks to their brains, perhaps even making them explode with some effort.

For more direct, visual stuff he could send shockwaves from his head, knocking enemies off their feet and damaging them in the process. Using telekinesis, he could lift rocks from the ground and use them as high-velocity projectiles. A high-level psionicist might even rip the ground apart through pure force of will, making the enemies fall to their deaths into the bowels of the earth.

The class could even specialize in different disciplines. Pyrokinesis would focus on making things (enemies) burn or explode. Telekinesis would lift, toss and throw objects around. Cryokinesis would freeze enemies, which could be comboed with for example telekinesis to make them shatter into a thousand pieces.

This kind of class would be a pretty fresh experience for this kind of game, while still being recognizable and not too alien.

[MadWasp]

Desperately demand for a nice crossbowman/ranger specialist class. :) Woohoo


And of course another close fighting boy with power gauntlets, spiked gloves with bloody arsenal of pain....(axe/sword/clubs/maces/spears/tridents)

[eisprinzessin]

From the introduction: (http://www.grimdawn.com/about.php)
These humans [...] have become wise to the strengths and vulnerabilities of their otherworldly foes. A few survivors have begun to exhibit strange new abilities after surviving possession or exposure to the warp.
Given that all skills/masteries can be used the enemies it makes sense that humans have gained them (indirectly) through their presence. Based on the above breadcrumb I asume, that these abilities are new to the survivors. Maybe it is just new to them, that they can control them without having lost humanity. (In other words: there might be many mad human enemies, too.) So the "once proud empire has been brought to ruin" more or less recently. Does that also imply, that mankind has been thrown back hunter-gatherer times?

I'm zoning out. So we want melee, ranged, magic, pet and heal classes, but how will they fit into the world of Cairn? medierra asked for class themes and I like the idea of good and evil classes and to mix them freely.

The more evil classes result from negative side-affects of the warp: life-leecher (the vampiric class), berserker (will he have demolition skills?), necromancer

Some cunning folk might be neither good nor evil: summoner (variety of demons), bender (equivalent to Dream?, haven't played it in TQ), rogue (can he utilise steam-punkish machinery?)

The more good classes have trancended the warp (to some degree) and can tap its pure energy: elementalist (do you want to split the 4 elements again?, maybe this time into slow earth-water and energetic fire-wind), fighter (thought to name it martial artist or paladin, but save that for the dual-class), ranger (friend of nature, can distract enemies, can heal others)

I'm not so fond of one class getting all the skills for one type of weapon. I'm thinking of archers especially. If you split related skills over e.g. 3 classes then we can have bowmans and snipers, too. :p

But were humans powerless before the war? Or would it make sense for each class to have a skill tree for humans only ... and 1 or 2 hidden ones for foes only?

Edit: This makes 9 to 10 base classes from which you can select 5 for the first version, but can already take the upcoming ones into account.

[GermanZombie]

As long as there is a ranger style character I will be pretty happy. I also would like a summoner type class, summoning demons or natural enemies to help out. I feel that for a scientist style class should be based on more the lore of victorian science,ie Alchemy and popular culture like invisible man, Frankenstein, Dr. Jackel and Mr. Hyde. All of the machinist stuff sounds way to steampunk to me, and they said they wanted to stay away from that.

[Scryer]

If there is a summoning class, please for the love of all that is holy make their damage, health and other stats all scale based on the main player.

One thing I always hated was once you got to the end of a skill, that was it, your pet didn't do any more damage then the skill said it did, but if it scales off the player then that pet can actually be used in hard difficulties.

I would have to say the same about all skills, they should all scale with the player.

I mean having a fire ball skill at level 15 (maxed out) then at player level 200, the fire ball only does 20-50 damage and the enemies you're fighting have 3000 health, that's pretty suck.

[irk]

for the demolition class... what about being able to grab an enemy, slap a bomb to them and give them a nice kick with the potential to knock down enemies by the guy you pushed who would explode soon there after?

maybe have it work as a counter move with chance on being hit, usable on being hit or something.

[cruxie]

I like the vampire class idea. And for me a pet oriented class please, (titan quest has a lack of them). Maybe Necromancer, spawning zombies, vampires, night hounds, spiders, I think they will fit well in victorian era. And please make massive spawns (5 zombies,5 vampires,etc) more like diablo 2 necromancer style.

[Drogirant]

I never imagined vampires as the savage "bbbbbBBBBLEEEEEEeeeeeeuuuuuRRRrrGhhhhh" "BLOOOD!" kind of types.I always thought of them as the calculated cold killers, that could manipulate others, and execute their actions with deadly precision.

Though we are talking about a game, not a movie :)

[bladeking77]

Here are classes I had in mind for GD:

Name: Marksman
Weapon: Guns (I assume there will be guns in Grim Dawn)
Skills: Passive skills that amplify Ranged damage, Special shots that require energy but deal more damage, lots of Explosives, Ability to "Dual Wield" guns, Active skills that amplify Ranged Damage.
Notes: Well, this class is about ranged weapons - Guns. to help him use those guns more efficiently it should provide some skills that increase his damage, both constantly, or for short durations. Also some skills that he can instantly use to shoot special shoots, dealing more damage, and throwing some explosives. Also you should eventually be able to use wield guns in both hands.

Name: Knight
Weapon: Sword + Sword, Sword + Shield, (Either dual wielder, or Sword and Shield)
Skills: Passive skills that amplify Melee damage, Active skills that amplify Melee damage, Skills that allows him to charge to battle and also damaging
enemies, "Dual Wielding", skills that can hit multiple enemies.
Notes: This class is about melee fighting, it should have everything a Warrior requires: dual wielding, smashing, slashing, and also skills that improve all that. It should be something like "Warfare" in Titan Quest.

Name: Guardian
Weapon: Melee Weapon + Shield
Skills: skills that fortify health, defense, and resistances, skills that allow him to Restore himself, skills that can Disable enemies, Active, and Passive skills for Damaging his enemies with both Shield, and Weapon.
Notes: Guardian is also a melee fighter, though he is more concentrated in defense than offense. He should be able to restore, as well as to prevent enemies from damaging him in the first place, and reduce the damage taken.
He should also be able to fight a little, using both shields, and other melee weapons as the means to battle. If Knight was "Warfare" then this would be "Defense".

Name: Mage
Weapon: Staff
Skills: Passive skills for restoring his Energy, Elemental cast-able skills for Damaging Multiple, or Single enemies, Active skills for fortifying his resistances, defense, and Damage. even more Elemental cast-able skills for Damaging Multiple, or Single enemies, Skills that allow him to summon creatures to fight by his side.
Notes: All mages are pretty weak when it comes to endurance, but they can hell of a cool spells. Same should be here, he should have lots of spells to cast, whether they be to strengthen himself, or blast his enemies away. He should also be able to summon some creatures to fight for him. It's reasonable that he would need a lot of energy for that, so he should have some skills that allow him to restore, or increase it.

Name: Distorter
Weapon: ANY
Skills: Active, and Passive skills for amplifying Ranged, and Melee damage; Various skills that can fortify most of his Stats, skills that can Blast, Damage, or simply destroy his enemies, skills that help him manipulate Space and Time
giving him some Advantages.
Notes: This is what you would call the "bender". He is able to manipulate space and time therefore he doesn't have a limit to which weapons he can use. As he would be most fitting for a support class, he should have skills that can strengthen him, and weaken his enemies. He should also be able to have some sort of attack skills that let him blast away his enemies.

Hope you find this useful. :)

[PureKnickers]

Forgive me, but I did not read all of the ideas presented, so if something along these lines was already mentioned , sorry.

I would like to see a class that is magic based, but has a focus on endurance to survive battles rather than wit or speed. This caster would have HP more capable to front line fighters, but lack the strength for heavy armors and melee. The general play style would have them luring monsters in to damage them while setting up appropriate defensive spells.

Defensive spells might include things like absorbtions and monster repulsions. Or perhaps there would even be some defensive spells that get stronger the more the caster got hit (kind of like a reversed onslaught). Perhaps one version could be where the caster gains more casting power every time he gets hit.

Offensive spells would probably be heavily in the aura/nova aspects. Or perhaps spells like 'chain lightning' that work best when monsters are clumped close around the caster.

Utility spells would mostly focus on keeping monsters at an optimal distance, including repulsion and pull-in spells. Perhaps a spell that negates ranged attacks and forces monsters into melee. Something like that D2 Necromacer spell that caused a single monster to become a target might be an idea.

Anyhow, a caster that has a lot of endurance for front-lines at the sacrifice of escape utility would be an interesting change from the norm IMHO.

[space-time mogul]

Hm, when I read about people getting their powers after they have been possessed once, I thought about a class that get´s it´s powers directly from a demon, because the character is STILL possessed.
Meaning that at some time in the past the character has either mastered the demon possessing him, or the demon has decided to permanently stay with him and to turn against it´s own kind (perhaps "just for fun").

Now I don´t know if something like this has already been thought of, and I can also imagine this simply fitting into existing class-ideas as sort of a background-description (like for the "vampire" or the beserker).
But it could indeed offer some nice action, like the character being able to project the demon outwards, manifesting him to fight by his side, to possess someone else, etc..

At least I was wondering - I´ve seen some ideas on wizard classes and on demon-hunter classes, but have not yet come over something similar to the idea sketched above.
Have I just not seen it yet or am I the first one with that idea?

[Code187]

Hm, when I read about people getting their powers after they have been possessed once, I thought about a class that get´s it´s powers directly from a demon, because the character is STILL possessed.
Meaning that at some time in the past the character has either mastered the demon possessing him, or the demon has decided to permanently stay with him and to turn against it´s own kind (perhaps "just for fun").
?

I like the demon idea!!!

+1............

[jonny_cool]

My idea for the class is some illusionist with powers to control dreams. He could be a mage. He could have all sort of illusion tricks (like: making an illusion of himself that could just stand there and do nothing, or it could do some weak damage, or a very powerfull illusion of himself that would last only for coulpe of seconds; illusions of enemies; illusions of some other things that the enemies are afraid of; some sort of short range teleports (blinks) that spawn illusions everywhere you blink with him, spawned illusions could do damage or could just stand there or/and taunt enemies.....). And for the dream part he could have skills that put his enemies to sleep [like a stun, and then he could have his way with them ;) ]; he could induce nightmares and night terrors to his enemies damaging them and/or making them go mad and kill each other; he could have an active skill that lets him venture into a dreamworld and capture all surrounding enemies in that dreamworld, and in that dreamworld he would have godlike powers (kicking them around, picking up trees and throwing at them, destroying objects...) it would last maybe 2-3 minutes with 6-9 minutes of cooldown, and when he exits the dreamworld the environment goes back the way it was (with no evidence of destruction) but the enemies would be all damaged or dead.