Editor Features - Object Painting / Pathing

[medierra]

Two of the more exciting features we've added to the editor are the ability to paint terrain textures on objects and make pathable objects that aren't "tiles". We've pretty much done away with the old system of "tiles" that stitched into the terrain. They are a pain to make, a pain to use, and they were bad for performance. Now we can make any object pathable by modeling a pathmesh on the surface we want players to be able to walk on. Using them is much easier since all you need to do is shove them into the heightmap or another pathable object and players will be able to path onto them.

The images below show two pathable objects - a bridge and a cliff rock. The bridge is made up of a center piece capped off by two end pieces. The bridge can be made infinitely long by repeating the center piece. To make it pathable, all you need to do is join up the ends in the editor. The bridge end could have been connected directly to the heightmap but I've decided to use one of our new cliff objects to create a better looking transition.

Thanks to our new object painting tech, I'm not stuck with a distinct, ugly-looking transition between plain gray rock and textured heightmap. In the bottom picture you can see how I've blended 3 terrain textures onto the rock at varying opacity to create a seamless transition. :D


http://www.grimdawn.com/screenshots/editorobjectpaint01.gif

http://www.grimdawn.com/screenshots/editorobjectpaint02.gif

[Roros]

Sweet, I'm guessing this means a lot more potential for interesting environments? I remember in TQ there was this huge spiral ramp towards the end of the game, is this the type of thing that was awkward to do back then?

I must admit I'm a little disappointed at the rock texture not bleeding into the bridge. We'd call it art.

[alexei]

Sweet, i love screenshots! It is really helpful to have the TQ engine and editor. You can use it as it is or make it better to make development easier and faster. I'm glad you're making you life easier.

About the terrain making technique, I though for that all games have easy editor to make terrain. Guess I was wrong. Look likes it depend on the game editor/tools. Must be a pain to make all the terrain in TQ. Did Rhis the one who program for the tools used in GD?

[ASYLUM101]

Wow, huge upgrade from TQ, haha. I love it, can't wait to get my hands on the editor(if ever :D)

[medierra]

BAM! - dirt on the bridge. Does it look good? I don't know, but you asked for it. ;)

http://www.grimdawn.com/screenshots/editorobjectpaint03.gif
http://www.grimdawn.com/screenshots/editorobjectpainting.gif

[alexei]

Wow look great! Zoom out a bit I want to see a bigger view :p

[TECHNOmancer]

That looks great!

If I understand what you've said about using tiles to determine pathing in TQ, it sounds like the pathing around the edges of the terrain should be better in GD.

TECHNOmancer

[medierra]

Did Rhis the one who program for the tools used in GD?

Yes, Rhis is our only programmer on the project, so if a feature requires coding - Rhis is responsible. One of the reasons it is possible for us to do this project on such a small budget is that almost all of the technology is already done. So almost all of the work Rhis is doing is to make improvements and create new features.

[alexei]

That's sweet! That's mean we gonna have cooler feature in GD! As suspected of TQ successor :)

[yerkyerk]

Pretty awesome. And a yay! for Rhis!

[Malpheas]

Totally impressive. I'm really looking forward to this.

[Mines51]

If it makes the job easier, then it gets the job done faster:p

[ASYLUM101]

Oh man, dude.... the dirt on the bridge is SO COOL. Not in itself, though it is pretty nifty, but in technique because that will open up so many possibilities. RHIS RHIS HES OUR MAN, IF HE CANT DO IT....

I think you know the rest? I still can't get over how those guys at battle.net thought the game textures look horrible, I can't get over how godlike they are.

[Mines51]

I have to agree with the nice textures, the stone pathway looks freaking awsome.

[Panthro]

So amazing to see some development screens!

I do quite like the dirt on the bridge, makes it look well-used!

[Malpheas]

You know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of all the custom made scenery (read as by players) on WH40k miniatures for the table top game. some of it was really REALLY good quality.

[Mochnant]

BAM! - dirt on the bridge. Does it look good? I don't know, but you asked for it. ;)

Definitely an improvement! Looks great either way but the dirt makes it look more realistic.

[Survey_Says]

BAM! - dirt on the bridge. Does it look good? I don't know, but you asked for it. ;)

I'm thinking put more dirt on the edge of the bridge, less in the middle where people would walk to make it appear well traveled.

[eisprinzessin]

I'm thinking put more dirt on the edge of the bridge, less in the middle where people would walk to make it appear well traveled.That's right - don't trust an untravelled bridge. ;) Art looks great. :)

[medierra]

I still can't get over how those guys at battle.net thought the game textures look horrible, I can't get over how godlike they are.

Thank you, although, I do think some of the critical posters had constructive comments - granted some of them did not. The game was looking a little too brown and muddy. We actually made some lighting and slight texture changes since the original screenshots. Nothing major but I think it is a significant improvement. The field stone path, for example, has been lightened up a bit and shifted from a brown to grayish color. The biggest problem is that we forgot about the day-night-cycle light values and they were adding in a lot of warm color values that were making the scene a little flat and brown.

We will probably post some new screenshots in a couple weeks.

[yerkyerk]

I think one of the problems of it looking so darkbrown is the character. He blends in the environment. It's realistic having him as camouflage color though :)

I think this is a much touched subject with game designers, the characters for D3 have been made lighter than the environment, to make them stand out, for example. In L4D, which uses dark and grim environments succesfully, they used light to attract players down a certain path and put extra effort in making the player characters look distinguishable from the zombies.

On the screenies shown for Grim Dawn, everything seems to blend in the environment, the zombies, the player character, even the blood. Indubitably one of the reasons I loved this screenshot, as it clearly makes the player stand out because of the flashy color, while using a (no doubt) awesome skill;
http://www.grimdawn.com/screenshots/chargedup001.jpg

I guess, in a way, this was also a problem with Titan Quest; but instead of everything blending in a dark and grim environment, everything blended in in an exotic and bright environment. Which is what made (the darker parts) of Act 4 so great :)

[medierra]

The character looks brown because of the crappy lighting configuration in the old shots. Your assessment is pretty much correct. If we're going to have dark environments we need to lighten the characters a bit. We've already greatly improved the lighting and texturing on the player character but enemies probably also need some tweaking.

We've just been in a mode of - get stuff in the game. I think it was good to take a step back and do a little polish on the art direction end of things.

[shawnmck]

The new pics give me shivers (in a good way).
:p

[Chameleon]

Yes, Rhis is our only programmer on the project, so if a feature requires coding - Rhis is responsible. One of the reasons it is possible for us to do this project on such a small budget is that almost all of the technology is already done. So almost all of the work Rhis is doing is to make improvements and create new features.

Wow Kudos to you all, Kudos indeed...:D

Looks great, cant wait for it...now where's a stasis pod when you need one.;)

[Jophilli]

Wow, I must say; I am quite excited about the art editor! I never tried making my own mods or maps in TQ (although I thought about it), but now I am definitely going to be making my own mods for this game. I can't wait!

Massive amounts of props to Crate for coming up with this sweet user-friendly technology. What's better than being able to just straight-up paint textures on multiple meshes in one fluid click of the mouse? I don't know of any other game editor that does that. Mad props fellas, mad props.

Oh, and one question: will it be easy to import custom meshes, as well? If I were to use 3DS Max, would I have to use a plug-in in order to export/import files?

[medierra]

Oh, and one question: will it be easy to import custom meshes, as well? If I were to use 3DS Max, would I have to use a plug-in in order to export/import files?

Yes, we have a pluggin to build export data into the meshes.

[Jophilli]

Yes, we have a pluggin to build export data into the meshes.

That is just too damn sweet. I'm starting to think that pooptastic Torque engine I've been studying has been worth the time...

[Starkrun]

I think i just lost my mind... this is wonderful! The ability to paint textures that look that good unloads so many possibility for world creation. i mean, you can have the player follow a goat patch up the side of a mountain and have little alcoves where battles could take place, and not have to make the pc guess as to where to go.

EG: climbing a mountain to obtain the "Sword of Ucelious" Which was dropped by the village chieftain while he was attempting to cleans the peaks of evil thereby saving his village.

Anyways, as for the lighting discussion; Focusing on content and getting it working imo is more important then tweaking lighting, or textures. Its far easier to fix a texture or light source then to add in content code after release. I love the darkness of the game, I miss that feeling of gloom and doom, where you dont know whats around the next cornor.


Pathing Question: Can you have spawn points below water and have a mob path out from it? EG: swamp mob's spawning inside a pond moving to the player from below water level? or set a no clip for trees and have monsters rush from what seems to be a Forrest? I have a thing for ambushing players, i love it... catching people off guard is wonderful and having a random chance script running so its always a surprise and its really delightful to watch. I am such an evil DM, but my players always have fun, and i never let them die due to me having to much fun.

[JMD]

:cool:

I can't wait to use this for sure!

[core]

I personally like that the game has such a dark look. I'm sick and tired of all the ultra bright wow looking games everyone is making now. I plan to pre-order the game soon. Keep up the good work :) i'm looking forward to playing this game.

[JMD]

I personally like that the game has such a dark look.

I couldn't agree more.

[Harlequin]

I have got a question just for my understanding because I am not good with that kind of stuff^^:

In the TQ editor you could put a big object underground so that only a small portion has been seen. However you still couldnt pass the area on the ground, it was as if the object was still above ground so basically the whole area above and under the object was blocked unless you turned blocking off completely.

Does that new feature make blocked areas like described above passable?

[Shock Trooper]

I like the realistic feel the environment has. Staying away from the toon stuff pretty much makes you the only aRPG I'm looking forward to. It a big plus for me. The grittiness is great and this path-finding tech is only going to help. I'm glad you guys are focusing strongly on content building. Screenies look very good so far. Hoping there will be something later like flaming torches and these sorts of things to warm and brighten up the appearance a bit. Looks great! Looking forward to seeing lots of muzzle flash screenies in these sorts of environments too.

Edit: What is the likelyhood of special environmental effects like willo the wisp or fireflies? Just a passing thought.

[Rhis]

Does that new feature make blocked areas like described above passable?

Something like that is really related to how the path meshes are generated.

However the new engine uses a different pathing system which does work as in your example. If part of an object is underground then that part doesn't effect that ability to move over the ground above it.

[medierra]

Edit: What is the likelyhood of special environmental effects like willo the wisp or fireflies? Just a passing thought.

My sources say good.

[Harlequin]

Something like that is really related to how the path meshes are generated.

However the new engine uses a different pathing system which does work as in your example. If part of an object is underground then that part doesn't effect that ability to move over the ground above it.

Yay nice to heard.^^

[Thander]

...Try myself as a über-newb editor, because this looks so promising!

And, please keep as much as the dark and grim as possible (possible= playable)

[cybrim]

It looks stunning

[Mind Dragon]

I didnt know you were taking comments on textures at this point.

Some general things I have noticed.

Ground textures have shallow details like rocks that appear to have shadows that seem to outweigh what the eye is expecting under normal lighting. Scattering and radiosity would probably lighten these up. There could be some reason for this like dark material in the cracks but it looks a bit stark. It could start to wear on you or actually increase the desire for dof.

Other objects like rocks often have rather stark shadows.

In some screenshots like 2010-08-19_barricade01_sml.jpg, there are some inconsistencies in the detail level of the textures. The grass, ground and wood objects look almost hyper detailed while the sacks look dreamy. The normally rough weave of sacks cannot be seen. The barrels look cute, almost doll-y. It is ok if the barrels are fresh and clean, but this looks different than that.

In 2010-07-24_fallingarch_lrg.jpg, the tree texture in the foreground looks strange -- large blotches without detail. If it is unusual for the tree to be seen that close, then I suppose it is ok.

In all but the most recent screenshots, the enemies are soft compared to the ground detail. In the recent pic, the npcs seem to have detail but dont seem to be lit as brightly as the ground.

[aristeus]

i liked the bulding from TQ.
but some things were difficult to make, like portals.
so i hope it is more user friendly this time.

[Geotarrr]

This is great feature - to have such powerfull editor!

[Ironwind]

Titan quest's art is still my favorite to this day, keep up the good work guys.

[sparky]

Wow i'm impressed, that is much easier, i remeber hooking up my bridges to the terrian height. and just texturing softly towards the bridge.. now you can actrully make the bridge lenghy.. or short, and attach it to an object and paint it over to make it look like it's spart of the scenary and not just an object connected to an object.. ! GENIUS

[nbringer]

Very excited about the infos "leaked" in this thread. :D

[Artovkaos]

What about SIDE QUESTS? Are you going to add some "new" side quests to EPIC and LEGENDARY ? And will it be possible to "buy" some MAPS from shops or play online? THANX!

[ASYLUM101]

What about SIDE QUESTS? Are you going to add some "new" side quests to EPIC and LEGENDARY ? And will it be possible to "buy" some MAPS from shops or play online? THANX!

This has nothing to do with the topic here o.O

[Executioneer]

spectacular environment and blending, my compliments to CRATE.