Randomized Barriers

[medierra]

Two new screenshots are up showing the randomized barrier feature we've added that will help to provide some variation in the flow of levels from one play-through to another.

In these screenshots you can see two possible routes that may or may not be open to the player in a given gameplay session. The effect on your course through a level can be minor, just causing you to take a slightly different path, or more significant, causing you to bypass larger areas.

http://www.grimdawn.com/screenshots/2011-11-07_barrier01_lrg.jpg

http://www.grimdawn.com/screenshots/2011-11-07_barrier02_lrg.jpg

[Dirty Lobster]

Random areas was one thing I was missing in tq, even if it is as slight as this I like it :)

[ASYLUM101]

Woo! That's pretty awesome!

[inklimited]

The weapon in the second picture... what is it? A rifle or musket?

Can the barriers be destroyed? If not, will there be barriers which can be destroyed (possibly leading to secret areas)?

[Yggdrasil]

Good news. :)

[Beta]

Random areas which are still hand made, great. Can't wait to walk through the grass and enjoy that fantastic physic-effect. ^^

[ZorusX]

Will there be barriers which can be destroyed (possibly leading to secret areas)?

I would assume it is possible, since the game allows for destructible terrain which could potentially be placed in these 'path blockers'. This could allow for some interesting secret areas indeed.

The possibilities this allows you are really cool, I hope to see them used a lot!

[medierra]

The weapon in the second picture... what is it? A rifle or musket?

Can the barriers be destroyed? If not, will there be barriers which can be destroyed (possibly leading to secret areas)?

It is a rifle - the levels of various technology in GD are anachronistic to real-world technology of a similar time period. In some areas GD is more advanced, while in other's it is more primitive.

These barriers cannot be destroyed, as that would defeat their primary purpose, which is to create alternate paths through levels. We do have other things that can be destroyed to gain access to "hidden" areas. Like there are sometimes places in the fieldstone wall where it is crumbling and you can blast your way through.

[nbringer]

Nice! GD is on the right track!

[Wildman]

Now thats just being sneaky....cool, but sneaky :D

I like it.

[matthewfarmery]

looks awesome, and nice touch with the barriers,

and the graphsic in general is utter superb, Im drooling to try this game out

keep up the great work you are doing

[Scryer]

Yay! And for the advancement and betterment of the game - things get more interesting!

A variance in level is also a variance in experience, so I'm happy about this.

Great Job!

[Narsus]

Sweet feature guys :D nice to see some more screen shots too ofc!

[Shinrou]

Just what I always wanted from TQ, and now we have that too! Grrrrreat!

[Darkenmal]

Very nice.

Video update soon? :)

[Kardiophylax]

Randomization is one of the very few things about TQ that let me down. It is fantastic to see that you have been able to combine handcrafted exteriors with randomized barriers.

I hope that you are also able to make each alternate path diverse enough. Expecting brutal melee opponents and ending up have to take a path through ranged npcs instead could throw someone for quite a loop (in a good way).

[Equisilus]

Even the simple additions of path blocking will add a bunch of variety to the standard maps. While I didn't miss randomization too much in TQ (and I had 45 different characters) I applaud anything that gives replays a bump up. Nice.

[Roland]

Lookin' Great!

\m/

[Fizzics]

Wow! This will add to game's re-playability I think. Great job.

[alucidzombie]

great update about a great feature, thanks!
in TQ there were wide areas that bottlenecked so you could essentially choose to take your own route through, but i'd usually stick to my preffered path anyway, just out of habit. mandating alternate routes is a great way for subsequent playthroughs to offer a little something new. i know ill be wondering where the alternate routes are and what they would have had in store when i play. :)

how about paths that open based on side quests?

[Harlequin]

Good work on that, I really like it.

[i.n.s.a.n.e]

Thanks for the update, medierra! This is awesome news!! As was said already, randomization was the only thing missing in TQ. =)

Oh God, I can't wait even more now, it is unbearable! :cry:

[kapxapot]

Looks a bit awkward to my taste. Why do you jam the passage instead of making the wall solid? This kind of "obstacles" annoyed me a lot in Dragon Age 2 and looked very unnatural. Your implementation looks better, but solid wall would be even better in my opinion.

Btw, this wheat field looks very TQish. ;) Maybe a bit better.

[Shinrou]

Oh right, medierra, does the pathfinding work with the new randomized content, IIRC you were talking about it being broken with the new system. Might remember wrong though. :P

[nighteyes]

Hmm, I don't know which is worse, not getting updates and wondering what happened to the genius':eek:,
or getting updates and screenshots and not being able to play it yet.:cry:

[yerkyerk]

It's definitely an interesting way to force players to take different routes. The kind of block seems a bit unnatural though, I think I'd prefer to see a closed wall instead of a bunch of debris 'accidentally' growing in the entrance's location.

[varsovie]

Can this implementation dynamically change the path?

I mean it would be cool if a river 's ford is uncrossable during rain.
Or for a quest you must go on top of a mountain, there it is two path a series of mines and a little trail on the mountain flank, but blocked by falling trees.
So you go in the mines, but a jerk burn all the supports with his napalm catapult and the entrance collapse.
So you get on the top of the mountain, kill the jerk and use his catapult to burn the trees and finish the mission on the trail and ashes.

GJ so far, semi randomized quest, path, terrain and enemies will greatly boost the replayability of Grim Dawn.

[Shogo]

Very good job, I can't wait to play this game. Randomization will add replayability... and I strongly want to play the game more than once :p

[inklimited]

I think this will solve a very important problem that TQ had.

Sometimes the map was too wide. I would always find myself circling the edge of the map and then wandering through the middle of it to collect any extra XP. This always felt very sloppy, like I was somehow cheating the game.

I still hug the edges of the map, just in case I lose a cave or a bone pile or something.

I think with maps designed with barriers in mind it will force players to explore without mindlessly following a single wall.

[medierra]

Looks a bit awkward to my taste. Why do you jam the passage instead of making the wall solid?

The level of precision required to properly orient and position a wall piece so it joins up right is not possible with the current tech. The tech that allows us to create randomized barriers was not specifically designed for that purpose. It was designed to create randomized scenery and that scenery has the ability to block pathing. So from that, the idea to use it to create the randomized barriers arose. Getting wall pieces to line up properly would require new tech, which isn't likely to happen. I live in New England, which is covered in old fieldstone farm walls and it is not uncommon to see this very thing where they are interrupted by larger rocks that have brambles and small trees growing among them. It could probably be made to look a lot better if placed by hand but that's what you get with randomized systems.

[Chernozem]

cool update.:)

It would be even cooler if you could use such types of barriers during boss fights.Gunslinger's dream.:D

[The Old Farmer]

This is about right, farmers dump random rocks and brush in to holes in the fence line all the time. Those field stones gotta go some where, so fill those dips and holes. Besides keeps the trespassers and their vehicles out of my field.:furious:

[Mr_Morningside]

As long as these barriers fit in with the surrounding environment and don't look artificial, it seems like a good idea. In the example above the "barrier" blends in very well.

Doesn't this mean a lot of extra work for you guys, though, if you have to create optional areas that some players won't even get to see? And are these barriers truly "random", or are they affected by certain conditions, such as quest choices or amount of play-throughs? I just figure it would be annoying if you took your character through the game for the third time, and the RNG always placed the barriers in the same locations...

I like the idea of alternate paths that would open up on your second or third play-through. Things like shortcuts and/or areas with especially challenging creatures.

[Staalker]

I have a question.

Would these barriers be only on a second play through, or do they show up on a reload?

Most games that have had randomness like this in the past generated the landscape and map when the game loaded, and many didn't save that info when you closed the game. So, you could swap characters to access your storage on another character, then load back the original and see things had changed.

Or will this all be decided as soon as we start the game, meaning it's seed based and totally possible that you get the same seed again...with a mod tool or something?

[Josho]

I have the same question as Staalker. And that has me of two minds with the implementation.

Completely randomising every time a new game session starts has its own perks, creating a unique environment each time and appealing to the adventurous spirit. However, I also like the idea of a game map being fixed say, per difficulty. Much like how Diablo 2 worked with the randomness in single player mode. The advantage of that is it provides a means of not having to traverse a new path each time and stumble across dead ends. Good for doing boss runs. The disadvantage is the player can be unlucky by having a terribly long route to traverse each time they decide to play through a particularly long area.

Or, would it only randomise when the game is started up initially from Windows? And multiple playthroughs across multiple characters yields the same map and barricades?

Either way, I love the idea. Great work Crate!

[Scottbee]

Cant wait for the alpha!

[zyklop]

Nice to hear about this new feature. Randomized levels are a great enhancement, for me too this was one of the few things i missed in Titan Quest. ;)

[medierra]

The barriers randomize each game session. They generally don't set you off down a long alternate path though, as you may be envisioning. Rather, each barrier tends to only be a minor divergence but there can be several in an area so that they collectively mix things up quite a bit. Often it is still possible to loop around and explore the full area. The purpose of these is not to totally change the gameplay experience but just to get people doing things a little differently each time.

The person above who described themselves as always running along the same level wall out of habit is exactly what we hope to alleviate. That is the type of thing I might do and I think many others do just out of habit or for the sake of efficiency.

As an example, before we had the barriers, I had created various possible routes through the starting area but in playing, I realized that I almost always go the same way without really thinking about it. The barriers prompt me to deviate off the normal path now and it keeps things fresh.

[Malpheas]

This is about right, farmers dump random rocks and brush in to holes in the fence line all the time. Those field stones gotta go some where, so fill those dips and holes. Besides keeps the trespassers and their vehicles out of my field.:furious:

Yessir, you DO live in Alberta. Best. Post. Seen. Today.

Cheers,

Alberta-ite.

[Ragnar]

The screenshot really looks good, and this is the first pick that looks like titan quest to me.

[Code187]

love the pictures but most the GFX!!!!! all pictures i just love the GFX :D

[Josho]

Thanks Medierra. More than anything, it is a great idea. I'm sure when the game gets released other people will pick up on the simplicity of the idea and appreciate how neatly it alters gameplay in an unobtrusive manner.

[jamesL]

why can't he just climb over that little wall ? :D

[Silversaint]

OMG!!!
These looks gorgeous!!! It's Awesome!!!

Serious, can I have the game already? :p

[Bleh]

We do have other things that can be destroyed to gain access to "hidden" areas. Like there are sometimes places in the fieldstone wall where it is crumbling and you can blast your way through.

Oooo that sounds great. That was something I missed in TQ as well.

And the pictures are really looking nice. The wait is getting harder with each new picture. Keep up the good work.

[Chameleon]

The barriers randomize each game session. They generally don't set you off down a long alternate path though, as you may be envisioning. Rather, each barrier tends to only be a minor divergence but there can be several in an area so that they collectively mix things up quite a bit. Often it is still possible to loop around and explore the full area. The purpose of these is not to totally change the gameplay experience but just to get people doing things a little differently each time.

The person above who described themselves as always running along the same level wall out of habit is exactly what we hope to alleviate. That is the type of thing I might do and I think many others do just out of habit or for the sake of efficiency.

As an example, before we had the barriers, I had created various possible routes through the starting area but in playing, I realized that I almost always go the same way without really thinking about it. The barriers prompt me to deviate off the normal path now and it keeps things fresh.

Sounds good to me, as long as it doesnt completely cut off some areas and I can uncover/explore the whole of the level.

[Pastabasta]

Thanks for this awesome update! This is the only thing I felt was missing. Now this game has everything it needs in my eyes. Congratulations for the hard work put in, and good luck in the future!

[doubleJ]

These barriers cannot be destroyed, as that would defeat their primary purpose, which is to create alternate paths through levels. We do have other things that can be destroyed to gain access to "hidden" areas. Like there are sometimes places in the fieldstone wall where it is crumbling and you can blast your way through.
Will there be any skills or gear that would make it traversable (jump/climb/teleport/etc...)?
It is interesting to "make" us not hug a wall and explore everything.
Getting over a wall that's only 4 feet tall, though, is more realistic.
Aside from that, I'm all for randomization. It's the biggest thing I missed about Diablo. There were always constants (big boss will always be on this level, but I don't know where or when), but everything else was new.
JJ

[medierra]

why can't he just climb over that little wall ? :D

Mostly for insurance reasons. Due to the risk of personal injury and lawsuits that might arise from it, the property owners strictly prohibit climbing of any sort.

[donkey]

I wonder if you climb up in full plate armor.:rolleyes:

[alucidzombie]

why can't that wall just climb over HIM?

whhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!
my brain can't even handle it.











....sorry ive been awake for a long time now

[Algonkin]

So beautiful.... this waiting is driving me nuts :(

[shawnmck]

There isn't much else to say that hasn't been said already. Everything looks fantastic.
Which in itself is a bit of a bummer, cause it just means that it makes me want this game even more than I already do, and the wait is excruciating.
:p

[jonny_cool]

Still waiting for the new video. When are you gonna show us some new gameplay video?

[Thander]

hehe, already bought the game long ago.

Now I just received most parts for my new - used - computer, so that I'm sure to play GD in MAX settings when it comes out!

Fits perfectly with a new addition the world of possibilities in GD

I'm lovin' it!

[kapxapot]

The level of precision required to properly orient and position a wall piece so it joins up right is not possible with the current tech. The tech that allows us to create randomized barriers was not specifically designed for that purpose. It was designed to create randomized scenery and that scenery has the ability to block pathing. So from that, the idea to use it to create the randomized barriers arose. Getting wall pieces to line up properly would require new tech, which isn't likely to happen. I live in New England, which is covered in old fieldstone farm walls and it is not uncommon to see this very thing where they are interrupted by larger rocks that have brambles and small trees growing among them. It could probably be made to look a lot better if placed by hand but that's what you get with randomized systems.
So the levels will be static, only scenery (including blocking scenery) will be randomized? Now I get it... I think.

[DeAdOne]

It is going to be very nice to have some diversity to the maps.I am assuming that these barriers will change each time you start a multiplayer game and probably if you restart in singleplayer,but what about just continuing a singleplayer game and replaying a area already cleared in a previous session.Will barriers possibly be different from a previous session.


The barriers randomize each game session. They generally don't set you off down a long alternate path though, as you may be envisioning. Rather, each barrier tends to only be a minor divergence but there can be several in an area so that they collectively mix things up quite a bit. Often it is still possible to loop around and explore the full area. The purpose of these is not to totally change the gameplay experience but just to get people doing things a little differently each time.

The person above who described themselves as always running along the same level wall out of habit is exactly what we hope to alleviate. That is the type of thing I might do and I think many others do just out of habit or for the sake of efficiency.

As an example, before we had the barriers, I had created various possible routes through the starting area but in playing, I realized that I almost always go the same way without really thinking about it. The barriers prompt me to deviate off the normal path now and it keeps things fresh.


So upon reading the whole thread(i was lazy before) it seems to me that the barriers will be regenerated at each new session of gameplay.

[Flamusiptheranji]

Excellent work as always. Can't wait to see what you all come up with next.

[babaum]

Looks great!

The more randomization you add, the more time the game will be popular and more Diablo fans will be... taken! ;)

I like the excellent quality scenarios from TQ (and I think thats only possible with a fixed design), but a mix between random/fixed could be perfect.

[zidders]

Just wanted to let you folks know how great the game is looking! I've been watching Grim Dawn on and off over the last few years, I have no doubt it's going to be right up there with Diablo III and especially Torchlight II as my must-have action/rpg's. I've also been keeping an eye on Path of Exile, too. 2012 is going to spoil us action/rpg fans!

[PhamTrinli]

Just wanted to let you folks know how great the game is looking! I've been watching Grim Dawn on and off over the last few years, I have no doubt it's going to be right up there with Diablo III and especially Torchlight II as my must-have action/rpg's. I've also been keeping an eye on Path of Exile, too. 2012 is going to spoil us action/rpg fans!

agreed 2012 will be a good year for ARPGs

i just hope we will get our hands on grim dawn this year as well. would be sorely disappointed if we couldn't even get the alpha client by 2012

been beta testing path of exile for a while now and it's looking promising. still waiting for custom leagues and pvp though

i'm not particularly interested in beta testing d3 at this point because i'm already too jaded against all the content the beta has to offer from watching so many let's play vid's of it on youtube lol. was disappointed when they decided to have such a small beta for d3 from the beginning. not sure what their reasoning behind that decision was. i hope at some point at least they will do a stress test

i have seen several good games fall flat recently because of lack of proper/sufficient testing / testing scope *cough*skyrim*cough*

in the mean time i have been trying to keep myself entertained with several indie games on steam: dungeon defenders, qube, bastion, etc...

reached max level on dungeon defenders and kinda got bored of it. also way too many people hacking their stat's to do anything with pvp in that game

downloaded and beat qube in 4.3 hours lol..

bastion is kinda meh. i like the narration but the gameplay is maybe a little oversimplified. on the surface the game looks like it isn't too linear but then you realize that out of all the choices of different locations to go, you can only choose 1 or 2 at a time because of level restrictions so the choices are kinda made for you.

been taking a break from skyrim due to several big quest lines getting bugged and not feeling like starting over. seriously that game needed like another 2 months at least of testing and bug fixing.

started playing portal 2 with my bro from china after gifting it to him on steam. we stayed up 'til 10:45am the next day (my time) the first play session LOL. had some mad fun with the co-op campaign. also, he'd never played a portal game before

it really sucks that torchlight 2 got delayed so much, i'm not even sure if i will be in the mood to even try it out anymore once it eventually comes out

dungeon siege 3 was a gigantic flop because of its horrid multiplayer and console-baby approach to the controls/UI/gameplay. fucking console-ports ruining good game series. that and 2nd/3rd generation dev's fucking with the tried and true formula of the inventor of the game

been trying out swtor recently, but gotta say it is a bit grindy around lvl 20ish. somewhere along the line i just suddenly noticed that i'm sitting there hitting a space pig with a freaking LIGHTSABER like 20 times just to kill it..... then i think of the movies where a jedi stabs a guy or an animal once with a lightsaber and it goes down... makes you realize how stupid the space-pig-hitting-20-times thing actually is. and anyone who tries to argue "balance" over what makes sense and is fun deserves to have to power their games by running on a treadmill the rest of their life while smacking their heads into their keyboards over and over. i do enjoy the voice acting throughout the game though - unlike conan where they only had voice acting on tortage....

soooo.. On-topic: i haven't seen a news update on the site for over 2 months now. what's goin on? is anybody still working on this game?

[Starkrun]

This was missing from TQ, I love the idea of randomizing the level though barriers...

I guess the question is does the world generate the barriers on char creation or every time you load?

[matthewfarmery]

@PhamTrinli

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2955

then you missed this update, which was posted on the ninth of this month

so work is continuing, and the devs have said, more interesting news will be released in the near future

but I'm still waiting for a new video, which med promised:D

[gzaiven]

:confused::confused:to the baord of grimdawn..im asking you guys if this game will be dependent on the online community or will you consider the dis advatages of having a game the rely on the net..ive been waiting for 1 game that is most famous as we all know but i will not mention the name of the game...and ive read thier forums that they will set the game based on online...im RPG addct ive plyd a lot of games specialy rpg both online and offline..so pls as you realese this game..make it off line and online optionally,,..i will buy the first day as you released as soon as availble in store,,,,,ty....more power to your compny congrats....:p

[matthewfarmery]

the game will be offline, but will have MP, but no secure servers, but all the MP features of titan quest will be available,

and you shouldn't need to be online when entering the reg code either, hope that answers your questions

[PhamTrinli]

@PhamTrinli

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2955

then you missed this update, which was posted on the ninth of this month

so work is continuing, and the devs have said, more interesting news will be released in the near future

but I'm still waiting for a new video, which med promised:D

I meant on the dev blog, although I wouldn't really call what is posted there an "update" as far as progress goes.

[naughtydog2k3]

agreed 2012 will be a good year for ARPGs

i just hope we will get our hands on grim dawn this year as well. would be sorely disappointed if we couldn't even get the alpha client by 2012

been beta testing path of exile for a while now and it's looking promising. still waiting for custom leagues and pvp though

i'm not particularly interested in beta testing d3 at this point because i'm already too jaded against all the content the beta has to offer from watching so many let's play vid's of it on youtube lol. was disappointed when they decided to have such a small beta for d3 from the beginning. not sure what their reasoning behind that decision was. i hope at some point at least they will do a stress test

i have seen several good games fall flat recently because of lack of proper/sufficient testing / testing scope *cough*skyrim*cough*

in the mean time i have been trying to keep myself entertained with several indie games on steam: dungeon defenders, qube, bastion, etc...

reached max level on dungeon defenders and kinda got bored of it. also way too many people hacking their stat's to do anything with pvp in that game

downloaded and beat qube in 4.3 hours lol..

bastion is kinda meh. i like the narration but the gameplay is maybe a little oversimplified. on the surface the game looks like it isn't too linear but then you realize that out of all the choices of different locations to go, you can only choose 1 or 2 at a time because of level restrictions so the choices are kinda made for you.

been taking a break from skyrim due to several big quest lines getting bugged and not feeling like starting over. seriously that game needed like another 2 months at least of testing and bug fixing.

started playing portal 2 with my bro from china after gifting it to him on steam. we stayed up 'til 10:45am the next day (my time) the first play session LOL. had some mad fun with the co-op campaign. also, he'd never played a portal game before

it really sucks that torchlight 2 got delayed so much, i'm not even sure if i will be in the mood to even try it out anymore once it eventually comes out

dungeon siege 3 was a gigantic flop because of its horrid multiplayer and console-baby approach to the controls/UI/gameplay. fucking console-ports ruining good game series. that and 2nd/3rd generation dev's fucking with the tried and true formula of the inventor of the game

been trying out swtor recently, but gotta say it is a bit grindy around lvl 20ish. somewhere along the line i just suddenly noticed that i'm sitting there hitting a space pig with a freaking LIGHTSABER like 20 times just to kill it..... then i think of the movies where a jedi stabs a guy or an animal once with a lightsaber and it goes down... makes you realize how stupid the space-pig-hitting-20-times thing actually is. and anyone who tries to argue "balance" over what makes sense and is fun deserves to have to power their games by running on a treadmill the rest of their life while smacking their heads into their keyboards over and over. i do enjoy the voice acting throughout the game though - unlike conan where they only had voice acting on tortage....

soooo.. On-topic: i haven't seen a news update on the site for over 2 months now. what's goin on? is anybody still working on this game?


You must not have played Knights of the Old Republic I & II since it also played the same way too and plus the reason why in the game's lore that you're not killing them with 1 hit is because they have shield absorbtion and why they take a few hits before they die instead of one.

[matthewfarmery]

KOTOR 1 is a good game, not played too, but that has a lot of missing content with it, there is a restoration project to restore the content, but last I heard the project is dead?

but the whole star wars lore is to me very messed up, KOTOR 1 takes place 4 thousand years before star wars 1, and SWTOR takes place 100 years after KOTOR

to me, this can not be, and just makes the lore silly and senseless, how can this take 4 thousand years before the films? (and if your wondering where I'm getting the 4 thousand figure from, then play KOTOR as it says so in its opening rolling text

yet the technology between them is pretty much the same, wtf??? look at human development and how far we have come in 4 thousand years

the setting is wrong, the lore is wrong, I don't think George Lucas had anything to do with any of the old republic games, so who ever came up with this setting should have been fired

might have been better if it was 500 years before the films, then it might have looked better / lore and story wise

I just think the setting is too far back in time to make any sense, ok the original films were made in the 70's 80s but if you have stuff 4 thousand years back that looks pretty much the same, droids, been able to hyperspace around the galaxy, then something is seriously wrong somewhere

anyone else got thoughts on this?

[KondaImmortal]

As long as there is some hidden loot we are all happy.:)

[l_w_88]

I don't understand the design choice here.

Wouldn't it be better to either just give us the extra areas to explore or force a change for higher difficulty levels to promote continued and higher level play? Forcing a change of tactics in terms of not only enemy strength but level design, by including more varied terrain in areas accessible during second and third playthroughs could ad more variety and difficulty than what seems to be a waste of time trying to accomodate randomisation that just isn't possible.

[mamba]

I don't understand the design choice here.

Wouldn't it be better to either just give us the extra areas to explore or force a change for higher difficulty levels to promote continued and higher level play? Forcing a change of tactics in terms of not only enemy strength but level design, by including more varied terrain in areas accessible during second and third playthroughs could ad more variety and difficulty than what seems to be a waste of time trying to accomodate randomisation that just isn't possible.

Not sure what you mean by 'randomisation that isn't possible'. The barriers are working and they lead to slightly different playthroughs.

You can argue whether that difference is worthwhile, and I would argue that even the randomisation of D2 and TL was not worthwhile to me and essentially accomplished the same thing, a slightly different route through what otherwise is the same general area.

The advatage of this over more regions in higher difficulties is that it is easier to make than new regions (and that some players might feel cheated out of regions if they are only available in legendary - granted I doubt you find those players on this forum ;) )

[medierra]

My response would be basically what mamba said.

The randomized barriers were created in very little time by just slightly modifying another feature we had already created. Building extra sets of levels for large parts of the world would be a massive amount of work.

[revel911]

medierra, I like the idea. This plus your other post of randomized camps, objectives, npc's ... ect.... give me a bit of light. Many of us will play this for hundreds if not thousands of time and a little variance means a lot.

[PhoneixS]

I want to answer one thing. You will make random path through blocking some paths, this will not make some areas to be inaccessible?


---
Sorry if my English isn't so good.

[eisprinzessin]

[...] each barrier tends to only be a minor divergence but there can be several in an area so that they collectively mix things up quite a bit. Often it is still possible to loop around and explore the full area. [...]
The last sentence sounds as if parts could be completely closed off - it's just important that you can reach all exits and quest objectives etc. These barriers cannot be totally random. There needs to be some pathing check, when creating them.

[Chameleon]

Lol yeah it would be funny to walk out of a town and find your path completely blocked by a fence. :D

[medierra]

The last sentence sounds as if parts could be completely closed off - it's just important that you can reach all exits and quest objectives etc. These barriers cannot be totally random. There needs to be some pathing check, when creating them.

The barriers can only appear where designers have placed barrier proxies. The proxies can either be independent and just have a chance to spawn or they can be linked together in groups. When proxies are linked in a group, they can be configured so that only one barrier will spawn or all but one will spawn.

This allows us to control things so that there is always a route through the level. In many cases, it is also possible to break through destructible wall objects to get around the barriers if you really want to go a certain way.

We would only allow a chance of an area becoming completely inaccessible if there was nothing special there, it was small and you didn't need to go through it to get anywhere else.

[DrKrunkenstein]

So this is actually my first post on this forum. I found out about Grim Dawn from the kickstarter. Anyway, as a future Game Designer I think its fantastic that you're so open with the development.

Anyway, as I expect from the TQ design, Grim Dawn's actual game-spaces themselves are not randomly built/selected from a list. Its good to see that Grim Dawn will feature at least some elements of Game-Space randomization.

Now, I am curious about how much of these barriers are destructible, because every time the player breaks a barrier, they're expanding the game space, and reducing its design complexity. A hill, for instance could appear in two variations that have radically different progression paths, even though its the same base hill for each. If the barriers that restrict the game-space and there by create the progression path are breakable, then not long after beginning to explore and fight in the area, destroying barriers along the way, then suddenly there aren't two progression paths anymore. The game space is just inevitably reduced back to its base through the destruction of the environment - which reduces environment complexity and creates (potentially) a scenario where a lot of work gets put into randomizing which is wiped out very quickly. So, how much of the barriers will be destructible?

[eisprinzessin]

[...] Now, I am curious about how much of these barriers are destructible [...] So, how much of the barriers will be destructible?
None of them are ;)
These barriers cannot be destroyed, as that would defeat their primary purpose, which is to create alternate paths through levels. We do have other things that can be destroyed to gain access to "hidden" areas. Like there are sometimes places in the fieldstone wall where it is crumbling and you can blast your way through.

[DrKrunkenstein]

Ah. Well, I'm now an ass for not reading, sorry.

But that raises the question of why not? Certainly all elements being static allows you to funnel the content experience, but why not have areas that are otherwise blocked off that can be broken into, expanding the game-space through the player's own volition? If your looking for player experience, then I would imagine that having those opportunities to break down a gate to open a small side graveyard - or blasting down a weak looking barrier to create another avenue of advance or exploration - would be rewarding and exciting. It shouldn't be much, certainly, or the randomized barriers lose their purpose of creating random(ish) environments.