Drops in Co-op

[Betrayer]

I'll wager this has been covered somewhere already, but I wanted to add my voice.

In my opinion, it is absolutely essential that drops in co-op are dropped for each player separately. That is to say each player only sees loot on their screen and they can pick it up at their own leisure without worrying about someone else taking it.

I simply couldn't play Diablo 2 online, because the game devolved into a race to see who could click loot the fastest.
Free for all loot also discourages some classes from playing together (if they need similar items).
Melee classes always get first dibs on items since ranged classes are far from drops.
IMO, this is a HUGE headache in multiplayer, and is nearly game-breaking in it's lack of fun and discouragement of cooperation.

Hellgate: London, for all it's problems, was a co-op paradise because everyone got their own loot, there was no rushing through levels always trying to be first to get kills (and loot), and you could focus on the fun game elements (killing and looting together), instead of the click race.
Diablo 3, thankfully, is also using this system.

I really hope the Grim Dawn devs feel the same way!

[Z3us]

Nice idea, I would very much like to see this aswell.

[The Old Farmer]

Agreed one of the best ideas for co-op.

[Renevent]

Completely agree.

[yerkyerk]

I agree - and it's been discussed in several topics already. Most agreed, others didn't care. Ah well, something that apparantly lives in the community.

[ttangx]

This is a great idea. I find this is what happens a lot during when me and my friend coop over LAN and I've found that we can get REALLY angry at each other for stealing loot. >_<

[Malpheas]

WTF ever happened to sharing?

IMO: Sacred 2 had it down pat. Delegate drops saved for a person, it doesn't drop increased loot and you can see what the other person dropped but cannot take it. The reserved time is gone after 30 seconds. One of the things I thought S2 did well (one of the few things).

[yerkyerk]

I dislike Sacred 2's system. It's better than no seperate at all, but the countdown just made the UI look more cluttery and it would still incite the 'rushing', even if you had enough time. People are usually not going to wait for 20-30 seconds, so I see no reason to implement such a system. If something drops that's good for another player, it can always be traded.

[Malpheas]

If something drops that's good for another player, it can always be traded.


Which is the crux of the problem, really. Players don't. I dislike increase loot dropping so everyone can get something. What happens when a boss just doesn't drop something? Bad programming? Of course people are going to complain.

So if someone gets an item they want to keep or want something for, should a game pander to drops so everyone should get something?

[Coridan]

I hate to say it, but I actually liked the whole WoW need or greed concept. But, of course, that brings with it an assumption of good character and honesty throughout the party. Plus, there's usually drama associated with it anyhow.

Assigning loot is probably the best solution, then. Or, though the programming could be a little difficult, you could make it so only your loot is visible. That way there's no drama. I'm pretty sure this is exactly what Betrayer was suggesting.

[Malpheas]

I dislike Sacred 2's system. It's better than no seperate at all, but the countdown just made the UI look more cluttery and it would still incite the 'rushing', even if you had enough time. People are usually not going to wait for 20-30 seconds, so I see no reason to implement such a system. If something drops that's good for another player, it can always be traded.

Yes, but it gave an opportunity for the assigned player to pick up items. Then after it was all done, then a scramble. But an opportunity first.

[Scryer]

Having someone see what dropped for me for however length of time sounds like a pain, I can already imagine the arguments people are going to make.

- Awesome item drops for player A -
- Player B can use Awesome item -
- Player B complains that he can't get the Item -
- Player A has an Alt that can use it -
- Player B leaves the games -

I'm sorry to say, but if someone wants an item they can either trade for it, let the guy give it to them, or something else, but letting other players see loot they can't pick up only incites anger and frustration.

Best to make it discrete and play the game in a easier to understand environment.

[Malpheas]

I'm opposed to increased drops so each player gets something.

I'm indifferent to being able to see other peoples items that I cannot touch; discrete might save petty squables. I agree that it could frustrate players. I also know that they might not care or it could fuel interest in items and offers.

Don't people want to know what others get anyways? Won't people not telling them or asking if they can trade for it also incite anger and frustration?

Why don't we all just give everyone the best items possible for drop or what they wish for and leave it at that?

[Coridan]

Why don't we all just give everyone the best items possible for drop or what they wish for and leave it at that?

Seconded! =)

[yerkyerk]

Don't people want to know what others get anyways? Won't people not telling them or asking if they can trade for it also incite anger and frustration?
Nope. Not knowing means not caring.

It's too hard to tell what items is useful for what build. Than you'd expect the game to know how the player is playing his toon.. that's unlikely.
There should be an increased droprate for people playing together. Nothing wrong with that, as it invites people to actually go through areas together.

[Coridan]

Nope. Not knowing means not caring.

It's too hard to tell what items is useful for what build. Than you'd expect the game to know how the player is playing his toon.. that's unlikely.
There should be an increased droprate for people playing together. Nothing wrong with that, as it invites people to actually go through areas together.

Yeah I agree. Increased drop-rate, yes. The only thing I'd be opposed to with regards to that is increasing the number of same items that drop. That is, 2 Oracles leggings instead of just one. That could be easily exploited.

[Malpheas]

I disagree, yerk, simply for curiosities' sake. I'm absolutely positive some people would be interested.

I see your point, but don't think more loot should be handed out.

I was going to say to scryer, "Dont' ask don't tell", "Out of sight out of mind", but you and I both know that will never be the case.

Doesn't matter how you do it, though, people will either be opposed or accepting.

[yerkyerk]

though, people will either be opposed or accepting.
In Dutch we have a good word for that, "dooddoener" - when translating it I came across "thought-terminating cliché".
It doesn't add anything, as no matter which issue you bring up, you can always find people who are opposed or accepting.

The point, as always, is finding the best way, which is enjoying to most players.

[Malpheas]

Which makes the majority of the issues we are talking about a dredge for information and an interest in majority.

I guess my question would be: Why introduce something that doesn't really change the state of sharing behavior?

EDIT: Seriously though, I don't care that there are more drops, who's drops I don't see or whatever. I'll play the game whichever way they do it. I'm just arguing semantics.

[yerkyerk]

Because it takes away frustration, ninja-looting and the inability of players to focus on the game and having fun, rather than on trying to get as much loot as possible. Or on getting any loot at all for the ranged toons.

I guess me and most others don't live in paradise city, where everyone plays completely fair and items are distributed evenly among fellow players.

Besides, if you live in paradise city and sharing is not a problem, implementing seperate loot should not be a problem either.

[Malpheas]

Besides, if you live in paradise city and sharing is not a problem, implementing seperate loot should not be a problem either.

You're right, but implementation is a needless endeavor were this the case. You're point?

As well, I tend to play online with people I know; we share on a regular basis. I'll continue playing in that vein of thought.

On a side note: I've never been called an elitist, sarcastically, using the term "Paradise City" before.

[eisprinzessin]

If there is not the one, best way, then we need options for multi player sessions:
- loot is free for all
- all loot is visible, but assigned to its owner (how would other players' items be displayed, so that I can ask them to trade this or that?)
- you can only view your own loot

In addition to the quality filter, I'd like to have a toggle/filter to switch between "my loot" and "all loot" for the second option.

[yerkyerk]

Well, english is not my native language, so I have a hard time coming up with words sometimes. Paradise city seemed to fit fine :)

I'm pretty sure you see the point in a seperate loot system as it has been well laid out in this thread several times, you just ignore the benefits many people see and focus on your own situation, where you do not see a benefit.

[Malpheas]

Well, english is not my native language, so I have a hard time coming up with words sometimes. Paradise city seemed to fit fine :)

I'm pretty sure you see the point in a seperate loot system as it has been well laid out in this thread several times, you just ignore the benefits many people see and focus on your own situation, where you do not see a benefit.


Yerk,

You're out of line in this case. I see the benefits. I have no problem with playing it it. I said, in a previous post, that I don't care but think that this is just needless pandering. Now stop trying to egg me on.

[Renevent]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvxGAFEDFZs#t=04m14s

:p

[yerkyerk]

I guess my question would be: Why introduce something that doesn't really change the state of sharing behavior?
You're right, but implementation is a needless endeavor were this the case. You're point?
You're throwing up questions that have already been adressed several times (even in the OP).

[Malpheas]

What do you think that question means?

Not the second, the first.

As far as the implementation comment you were talking about in a perfect world. In a perfect world it's pointless to change an existing system where people get along. So it was not applicable. No need to skew the statement.

[Scryer]

True, however since we don't live in a perfect world and people often enjoy playing a game in their oh-so individual way, we know that letting players see each other's loot causes 2 main problems.

- It makes the player believe that he was intentionally shown the piece of gear in order to know it exists but the player can not pick it up.

-Since the player is not able to pick it up he'll ask other players around him for whatever it is that dropped, regardless of other player's uses for it.

That is assuming the players have never met before and they expect that the reason they were shown each other's item drops was to "share or trade."

The player that received the item may still want it for an alt, so this becomes a mote point to even show what dropped for other players because it doesn't really get across that they will not get the item regardless of what they say about it, the player that received the item has every right to it and this simply causes frustrations for all involved.

Making it discrete for every player is more fun, in that, those previous frustrations are completely eliminated, and it keeps the idea of trading or sharing in the same sense.

Anyways I covered a lot of this in the Farming thread created by Medierra. I hope that they can get this into the game as I think it would improve the game's multiplayer experience significantly.

[Betrayer]

The joy of the system is that no one feels entitled to other people's loot.
You GOT your designated loot. If someone wants to give you an item they think you'll like or trade then that's fine, but there's really no reason to expect them to do this nor is there a need for it.

In HG:L it worked extremely well. There was no fighting over loot or arguments. There were often generous people who would give you an item they picked up though. But people could loot an awesome item for your class and then they could go sell it. You would never know, and it wasn't yours to begin with so it shouldn't bother you.