Gunslinger!

[Omeganyn]

I was thinking over the warp and i cant find a list of charecter ideas that have already been made, but i thought this would be a no brainer really. A class based loosely on the old western gunsligers that use quickdraws and revolvers with limited shots, quick reload skills and pinpoint accuracy with trickgunplay, like shooting the edge of a wall to bounce a bullet around a corner and nail the enemy in the dome! you could even add a bullet specilization, like explosive shot. Or have them run around with some TNT and throw that into the fray of combat! Revolvers, shotguns and chainguns! go for the modded wild west!

[The Wuggly Ump]

I am all for this, and would like to humbly suggest these additions:
1, ammo is unlimited
2, there's a firing mechanism so's we can shoot without having to click a specific enemy. I'd love to see an ARPG with dual-stick, Geometry Wars type controls for ranged classes.

[eisprinzessin]

That's a great idea - if nicely done it complements the demolition class.

[Yggdrasil]

Ammo will be unlimited (you'll probably have a special ammo item like a relic for upgrading your firepower, but this object will be permanent) and yeah, I like this class idea.
Not 100% victorian, but I'd really like playing this taciturn guy (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1DVjF5lJwp4/TNZu-ZUFz8I/AAAAAAAAAa0/ihFrDfDKGZo/s400/eastwood_good_ugly.jpg) (who could fit pretty well in Cairn imho).

[james1976]

It wouldn't have to be called gunslinger as long as it fits to a similar idea of the class proposed, right? You could use weapons that will be in the game that are similar in comparison. I like the idea if it can fit the time period.

[yerkyerk]

I think Gunslinger is a pretty cool name :)

Also, throw in Ricocheting as a skill. Could be an ever bouncing bullet (more skillpoints give more and stronger bounces) or much like Scatter Shot in TQ's Hunting mastery. Or both.
Cause only a true Gunslinger can master the art of Ricocheting :D

[Perturabo]

A gunslinger class would be just perfect. Just for style - please add something like precognition, hypnotise and dual guns (anybody who doesn't know what I'm talking about - I'm just thinking about Roland Deschain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Deschain) :D).

[Father Squid]

I'm just thinking about Roland Deschain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Deschain) :D).

But he was the Last Gunslinger...how can there be any more? ;)

[NZSpy]

Very similar to the Vanquisher(ranged with guns) class in Torchlight. They have exploding shots, Ricochet, Multiple Shots. It wouldn't be bad thing to incorporate these ideas. :)

[james1976]

Very similar to the Vanquisher(ranged with guns) class in Torchlight. They have exploding shots, Ricochet, Multiple Shots. It wouldn't be bad thing to incorporate these ideas. :)

Like Katarina in Dungeon Siege 3 as well. She uses the same kind of guns (musket matchlocks and such) and she's pretty much a gunslinger with magic. Ricoheting bullets between enemies, rapid fire ability that turns her rifle into a machine gun briefly, etc.

[alucidzombie]

i want to throw in my support for a ricochet skill, especially one that is capable of hitting multiple enemies. as a crowd control skill that could daze or stun enemies that could be pretty valuable. the initial skill could be ricochet for damage with different modifiers you could put points into, aiming for the legs for slow/stun effects, the head to daze, etc.

not sure if im for a gunslinger class though, that'd be like having a swordwielder class in TQ :p

[Omeganyn]

everyone has great ideas, though i would like to see the class focus on specific gun types. When i said limited ammo, ididdnt actually mean carry ammo around, i just meant limited ammo in the chamber of the weapon before you would have to reload. Guess i should have clarified that. even if the class itself dosent make it into the game, it would be nice to see some of the suggested skills make it in. Really like this idea though.

[yerkyerk]

I would love to see reloading in the game, I think it adds a ton of enjoyment, deciding when and where to reload, choosing between power/ammo/reload time, it adds more depth. Reloading is a mechanic that has been succesfully used in other action RPGs (Alien Shooter/Zombie Shooter series) and neglected in others. I always preferred the reload mechanic. From my personal experience, I can say it adds a lot more to the game than just being another fancy mechanic.

Sadly though, it appears it won't happen. Such a shame.
I would expect guns in GrimDawn to work like bows in TitanQuest except they would have more damage and a longer delay between each shot.

Based on that, what I would like to see is: single shot, unlimited ammo, no having to press reload button.

This is pretty much how they will work.

[Omeganyn]

I would love to see reloading in the game, I think it adds a ton of enjoyment, deciding when and where to reload, choosing between power/ammo/reload time, it adds more depth. Reloading is a mechanic that has been succesfully used in other action RPGs (Alien Shooter/Zombie Shooter series) and neglected in others. I always preferred the reload mechanic. From my personal experience, I can say it adds a lot more to the game than just being another fancy mechanic.

Sadly though, it appears it won't happen. Such a shame.

i expect the same thing, only you took it a step further with wanting to choose ammo and the like, whereas im expecting ammo to still be unlimited and reload to be a mechanic thats automatic, i agree with not having to reload by pressing a button. Ammo should be modified by skills. Thats the idea anyways. either ammo proccs or abilities, passive and active.

[yerkyerk]

Oh, I also wanted ammo to be unlimited, I was just hoping for customizable ammo (which seems like something we'll be getting). Reload should, in any game, be automatic when the gun empties, but it's just annoying if you don't have the option of reloading manually. Than you'll empty your gun before each creepfight, to make sure you won't have to reload in the middle of battle.

[matthewfarmery]

here another vote for manual reload, I hope it gets added, as it would make a big difference

[nighteyes]

I reckon that it would be nice if the reload worked as a cooldown that you could start at anytime, but would otherwise reload automaticly when you fired your last shoot. This way you can have say a 6 shot skill that you have fired 3 rounds, now instead of rushing into the next battle, you can sit for a second, reload all your guns (skill variety) and be ready to go again.

Given that Med has said that guns are likely going to act as bows I think that you could still add this idea (mechanics permitting) as a skill set with the variable reload.Then have your basic guns with unlimited ammo, and the powerful ammos/skills have your 'limited' ammo.

[yerkyerk]

Given that Med has said that guns are likely going to act as bows I think that you could still add this idea (mechanics permitting) as a skill set with the variable reload.Then have your basic guns with unlimited ammo, and the powerful ammos/skills have your 'limited' ammo.

True, but you'd be missing out on the vast potential of reloading as an affix. Borderlands has proven that this is tremendously important.

[Omeganyn]

yea i can agree with yerkyerk there on borderlands, very good example. The idea of the gunslinger though i kinda took away when i was watching that new movie with Jude Law (I think) called priest from the comics where he takes on some vamps. Made me think of Doc Holiday in the movie tombstone because of the main antagonist and i got to thinking to myself, wonder what Doc Holiday would do if he found himself in Grim Dawn? hence the Gunslinger, and thankfully because of the story arc you could easily implement the class into the story. Would just love to see the class specialize in small arms and trick shots, like in the old west when they used to use trick shots to put bullets through a dime from 50 feet away or shoot tin cans with a six shooter using ricochet shots to knock off some 12 cans. just thought it would be a really cool idea for this game.

[Mind Dragon]

With normal fantasy settings, I always prefer the bow or crossbow for style. I think it is odd to use pistols against something like orcs.

For torchlight, the vanquisher bows seem to have a rather limited range. So the ranged class has about a shot or maybe two, disregarding any knockback or interruption of movement before the enemy is in melee range.

Sometimes dashing/kiting about doesnt work as well as you want it to, purely because of the game and engine limitations. (the use of attack and move on the same user interface control -- attacking instead of evading, click lag, inaccurate hit box sizes, targeting help). This is more frustrating that challenging.

The winds of justice skill takes too long to engage and it seems to require the button to be down for awhile rather than a tap.

It is interesting that many games try to force a ranged player into a modified melee character. A melee character that has weaker hits but can hit once at range before the enemy melee closes.

Melee characters have a stand and take the damage imperative. This also applies to combat against enemies with ranged attacks. But again, often the ranged player characters are forced into the same imperative. When dealing with other enemy ranged players, often they fire so quickly that you must choose between constant kiting (avoiding damage) or attacking but taking damage from constant attacks.

It would require some thinking to provide something different but a game that relies on the above (difficulty balancing) ideas for every enemy type seems a bit lacking these days.

As I mentioned before once, the twin stick area shooter approach to arpgs (for example Alien Shooter) provide the player a great advantage in kiting. The game must accommodate this fact into its balancing and gameplay goals.

[Omeganyn]

With normal fantasy settings, I always prefer the bow or crossbow for style. I think it is odd to use pistols against something like orcs.

For torchlight, the vanquisher bows seem to have a rather limited range. So the ranged class has about a shot or maybe two, disregarding any knockback or interruption of movement before the enemy is in melee range.

Sometimes dashing/kiting about doesnt work as well as you want it to, purely because of the game and engine limitations. (the use of attack and move on the same user interface control -- attacking instead of evading, click lag, inaccurate hit box sizes, targeting help). This is more frustrating that challenging.

The winds of justice skill takes too long to engage and it seems to require the button to be down for awhile rather than a tap.

It is interesting that many games try to force a ranged player into a modified melee character. A melee character that has weaker hits but can hit once at range before the enemy melee closes.

Melee characters have a stand and take the damage imperative. This also applies to combat against enemies with ranged attacks. But again, often the ranged player characters are forced into the same imperative. When dealing with other enemy ranged players, often they fire so quickly that you must choose between constant kiting (avoiding damage) or attacking but taking damage from constant attacks.

It would require some thinking to provide something different but a game that relies on the above (difficulty balancing) ideas for every enemy type seems a bit lacking these days.

As I mentioned before once, the twin stick area shooter approach to arpgs (for example Alien Shooter) provide the player a great advantage in kiting. The game must accommodate this fact into its balancing and gameplay goals.

what? i think i missed the whole point of this post?

[Mind Dragon]

Is the gunslinger for GD or any rpg. Will I be shooting goblins with handguns and evil sorcerers with shotguns?

Will the gunslinger quick draw, fire an exact shot, and then, the enemy will be finished?

Will I be firing my gun repeatedly at an enemy a couple of inches away waiting for it to die, as it tries to kill, by repeatedly bashing me with its limb or weapon?

Will enemies have guns and be ratt-at-tat-ing off a continuous stream of metal across the screen?

Some questions I made for a point.

[Omeganyn]

Is the gunslinger for GD or any rpg. Will I be shooting goblins with handguns and evil sorcerers with shotguns?

Will the gunslinger quick draw, fire an exact shot, and then, the enemy will be finished?

Will I be firing my gun repeatedly at an enemy a couple of inches away waiting for it to die, as it tries to kill, by repeatedly bashing me with its limb or weapon?

Will enemies have guns and be ratt-at-tat-ing off a continuous stream of metal across the screen?

Some questions I made for a point.

As previously stated in the original post, the class would be specific for this game. The reason it fits here is because of the story arc.

2 warring alien nations are vying for humans a resource to fund their war machines. The war has become so intense that it has begun to rip a hole in the very fabric of reality. Humans that have been exposed to the rift have started to exhibit strange and unusual powers that have given humanity a slim hope of mounting a resistance against the alien invaders and liberating humanity from the alien oppression and bring humanity back from the brink of extinction.

With that type of story arc and guns being used in the game throughout and most of humanities technology destroyed in the war, think this class would fit perfectly for this game. As with any ranged class the gunslinger will use skills that affect the damage and function of his shots with active skills in a trick gunplay type of skill tree. It will be different from your traditional bow and arrow as the shots will be much more powerful as you have exactly 6 shots before reload. Think of the old wild west and the movie tombstone, meeting the other guy at high noon for a quick draw gunfight in the middle of town. think of the ricochet shots and pinpoint accuracy with handcannons of a .50 calibur. I think that stephen kings series with marvel comics "the dark tower" really captures the idea well. (i just came across that while i was looking for ideas for the class).

[Mind Dragon]

Dramatically, it sounds great but what is the gameplay?

Games have ranged classes that are remotely similar, so it is possible.

For example:

There is an enemy that can damage the player in close proximity.

How does the enemy react to the gunslinger?

Does it flee? Does it stay at range?

Does it walk toward the gunslinger, receive a bullet and die after a few steps?

Does it take several shots and continue on?

Does it run in a zig-zag at the player? Does it hide behind a wall?

Suppose the enemy manages to come in range to attack, what does the gunslinger do? Does he punch it through a window? (with the arm-of-a-monkey skill). Does he kite? Is there a puff of smoke?

In dramatic writing, the story is based on the vunerability and weakness of the participants. In long drawn out fights, the characters stay at range with the intermediate damage taken being for emotional effect, rather than altering the aspect of vunerability. Perhaps there are some close calls with some unique evasions (James Bond). What actions/events in stories is scripted, however. This is an advantage that general gameplay wont have.

What about ranged enemies?

[Omeganyn]

Dramatically, it sounds great but what is the gameplay?

Games have ranged classes that are remotely similar, so it is possible.

For example:

There is an enemy that can damage the player in close proximity.

How does the enemy react to the gunslinger?

Does it flee? Does it stay at range?

Does it walk toward the gunslinger, receive a bullet and die after a few steps?

Does it take several shots and continue on?

Does it run in a zig-zag at the player? Does it hide behind a wall?

Suppose the enemy manages to come in range to attack, what does the gunslinger do? Does he punch it through a window? (with the arm-of-a-monkey skill). Does he kite? Is there a puff of smoke?

In dramatic writing, the story is based on the vunerability and weakness of the participants. In long drawn out fights, the characters stay at range with the intermediate damage taken being for emotional effect, rather than altering the aspect of vunerability. Perhaps there are some close calls with some unique evasions (James Bond). What actions/events in stories is scripted, however. This is an advantage that general gameplay wont have.

What about ranged enemies?

I would say that it shouldnt matter about how the enemy runs to the player, bullets are just about instant as it is. :) i leave how the enemies react to the gunslinger would be to attempt to dodge and use skills that lower the chances of being hit by the gunslinger. I know in titan quest the enemies came at the ranger head on and they had higher pierce resistance, the player would have to shoot the melee enemies before the ranged and the ranged would pelt the player over the melee. guess the developers will have to decide on how they want to tackle this issue.

[Omeganyn]

I dont know if this idea went any further, i havent posted in along time, but does anyone know if the devs took anything away from it?

[Confuted]

I dont know if this idea went any further, i havent posted in along time, but does anyone know if the devs took anything away from it?
I'm sure the devs have looked and contemplated the contents of the thread. The devs don't normally comment on ideas; not that they do not want to comment or reply, just don't want to appear to take any sides.

[GlurakTheGreat]

This seems really cool... Me likee

[archaven]

I like the idea. I also like that ammo should be infinite and we need to have different ammo types and skills that augment the powers or damage.

They can add in variety like explosive shots which you can have 5 ammo shots. Once finished it will be on cooldown. It's basically adding 'elemental' damage variety to the guns via ammo instead of the guns providing it.

The guns loot can possibly add modifiers to certain type of damage so having the right ammo skills and powers to synergy it will be nice.

[Kangamangus556]

I also think an upgrade in technology down the road with high end firearms would be cool. Maybe some sort of steampunkish assault rifle or machine pistols for hella fast attacks and procs of abilities and DOTs.

[eisprinzessin]

Neither steampunk nor high-tech ... also see Ranged weapons ;)

[Kangamangus556]

Arrgh. Accidentally reported your post. Sorry. I'm a moron. Well, here's hoping I can carry a cannon.

[eisprinzessin]

I think you didn't - at least I have not received any email. Or did you press "Send report" after pressing the report button? :eek:

[Kangamangus556]

I derped pretty hard. I can't remember.