Dude, let me tell you about this speedy/violent class I want.

[The Wuggly Ump]

Okay so I've been playing a lot of Din's Curse recently (great game), and there's this thing that keeps bugging me. I mean REALLY bugging me.

Every character is incredibly, depressingly slow. I had the same problem with Torchlight, and even with Titan Quest (although that had more to do with the vast, disappointingly empty areas).

So here I am, having just pre-ordered Grim Dawn. And I am here to tell anyone and everyone how badly I want a new ARPG where I can play a Frenzy Barb.

For those that don't know the term (i.e. me two days ago), that's a build from Diablo II that focuses on the skill Frenzy. I am going to tell you about Frenzy as if you aren't a giant ARPG fan, so bare with me: Frenzy is awesome. It is a dual-wield skill that makes the character using it hit and move faster every time they hit a mob. The only problem with Frenzy is that eventually you max it out and don't get any faster.

That is a shame.

So. I've been pondering my favorite character from Diablo II, and his/my obsessive reliance on the Frenzy skill, and I've decided to make it my personal mission to get this kinda shit into Grim Dawn. I will tell you about my thoughts/ideas regarding Frenzy and the ideal build to go with it. I will do this in the form of a list. Each item on the list will be a skill, unless it isn't.
I HOPE YOU ARE AS HYPED FOR THIS LIST AS I AM.

1. The primary skill in this class/build/whatever is suspiciously similar to Frenzy, but it is way better because you can get even faster. Like, really fast. Think of the fastest thing you can imagine. This would be less fast, but still pretty fast. On a scale of 1 to 10 fast things, this would be like, a 7 or something.
The skill costs very little mana (or whatever resource, I haven't spent enough time reading about Grim Dawn because I'm a jackass and just want to talk about my idea) to use. To compensate I'm gonna say that you lose a buttload of defense, and that there is a frustrating "cooldown" effect that lasts for several seconds, during which you cannot cast spells, use AOE or defensive abilities, or generally do anything except hit things.

2. Life drain. My wonderful, beloved Barbarian from Diablo II had these two short swords that basically turned him into a vampire. Vampires heal when they drink blood right? Anyway, every time he hit a mob he got some health back, and since he was hitting approximately eleventy-zillion times per second, he was healing pretty fast (pretty fast is a 3.5 of The Scale of Fast Things). This helped compensate for his atrocious defense, and it was also totally sweet.
I am imagining a branch from Frenzy where this Vampirism is one of the options, replacing Frenzy. In the long-established Video Game Vampire tradition, taking this option would make other forms of healing worse, or make them stop working altogether (most likely passive healing, since standing still is boring and the opposite of this class's purpose).

3. Okay so if Vampirism is one branch from Frenzy, what's the other? Well. It's sort of like one of those typical ARPG passive abilities that increases critical hit chance, only it is awesome. I will call it Explosion, and it involves explosions. Basically, when a player kills a mob, there's a chance that the character's hit will make the mob explode in a disgusting/great shower of gore. As if purely visual spectacle with no gameplay bonus wasn't enough, the skill ALSO causes that gore to deal further damage to any mobs it hits.

4. After Explosion, obviously there should be a skill that allows Explosion to chain between enemies, creating a ridiculous spectacle of gibs that spreads across the whole screen.

5. There should be a skill that makes it so you don't have to click on enemies, because I freaking loved that in Diablo. It could also give some bonuses or something I guess. I dunno. I'm kinda running out of steam, to be honest.

Okay! That's all I've got. I'll probably have more ideas later because I am obsessive. To sum up:

-I am imagining a ridiculously fast, melee-focused, dual-wielding class with atrocious defense.
-The class should wear a bowler hat and specialize in weaponized chainsaws.
-Did I not mention the hat? The hat is Very Important.

PS: Yes, I know there's a similar skill to Frenzy in Titan Quest. I'm reinstalling that game AS I TYPE, but I haven't played in a while so I don't remember how well it conforms to my ideal. I'm pretty sure it's less gory, though.

PPS: Yes, I know I have unrealistic (and disgusting) expectations. That is because realistic (and... gusting?) expectations are boring.

[Tenka]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMxBePEThqhLXb0_SA4NhLL9rsU4yoc IG-3ARQQuxsrj2q1DAiAA

[SirFreckle]

I HOPE YOU ARE AS HYPED FOR THIS LIST AS I AM.

Made me laugh.

[Opal Monkey]

... Erm... I'm currently split right down the middle with confusion on one side, and support on the other.

Seems kinda like there will always have to be a cap on attack speed though. Or at least diminishing returns that do basically the same thing. Otherwise every auto-attack based class could just outfit for full-out attack speed, no?

I'm all for boosting movement speed and not having to click on individual enemies when all you want to do is smack them in the face! Much nicer if you can just hold the mouse button and guide the direction of the carnage :D

Keep up with the ideas (with just a hint of rant) :p

PS: I am also intrigued by the idea of "gusted". So long as it's not like flammable and inflammable, hehehe.

[The Wuggly Ump]

Seems kinda like there will always have to be a cap on attack speed though. Or at least diminishing returns that do basically the same thing. Otherwise every auto-attack based class could just outfit for full-out attack speed, no?
Oh for sure. There's gotta be a cap eventually, otherwise the game and/or computer will break. But it'd be great if I could get, say, two to three times as fast as the Diablo skill.

I'm all for boosting movement speed and not having to click on individual enemies when all you want to do is smack them in the face! Much nicer if you can just hold the mouse button and guide the direction of the carnage :D
Exactly! Also, and this only occurred to me later, this type of class would be ideal for players using assistive technology like eye/head tracking. Of course, that doesn't matter if they don't actually want to play a class like this, but still.

Also, after playing a bit of TQ last night, I think the Frenzy skill should be one of the first skills available. It's frustrating as hell to have to level up a bunch before you get any of the fun stuff. Start with fun skills, then make them even MORE fun - that's the way. Diablo did this too, of course. Pretty much every ARPG does it, actually. And most regular RPGs. It kinda blows.

[Dejnov]

I have to agree with the original poster. Most ARPGs start you of depressingly slow and make you work real hard to find speed ups just so you can get in on the action. Bland boring large areas to traverse don't help the situation (I'm looking at you Sacred 2 grr..).

I also would like to see a faster base character speed and the ability for character classes to up their speed easily and quickly. If it means that the max speed to min speed ratio is lower... so be it. It sucks being a turtle for any length of time.

Btw- The Hermes Sandal relic was my favorite relic in TQIT. I can't believe it wasn't there in the actual game! These days I have stores of this one relic for every reboot and new character I build. Pop one in and move quickly to higher levels! This was real tragedy in TQIT.


Dejnov.

[eisprinzessin]

Your superluminal class might be in reach ...
I think you'll find the speed is much better in GD, or at least, I think I do. I went back recently to play a bit of TQ and by comparison everything just felt painfully slow and sluggish both in terms of movement speed and responsiveness. [...]
I thought a class oriented around vampirism would be cool. A character of this class wouldn't be a traditional vampire, so to speak, but as a result of possession or warp exposure would have gained an ability to control the life-force of other creatures.

[The Wuggly Ump]

That doesn't sound like my kinda vampirism. That sounds like Boring Spell Crap.

BSC is fine for other people, but I like to stick a couple swords on my character and wade through a thousand mobs without pressing more than one button.

I like the sound of a faster game though; I'm discovering that TQ was terribly slow.

EDIT:
OH OH OH I ALMOST FORGOT

There should also be a ranged class with a dual-stick control scheme. I never play ranged in ARPGs because having to either stop moving or click right on the damn mob is super annoying.

I may just set up an Autohotkey script one of these days that holds down the left mouse button for me...

[eisprinzessin]

That doesn't sound like my kinda vampirism. That sounds like Boring Spell Crap.
Above vampirism quote was from January 2010 - it's just a basic concept. What makes you think, that it clashes with your vision? Please note, that possession or warp exposure are the prereqs for our heros' powers ... as we learned just recently. Also spell casters might be more appealing to you in GD. ;)

[The Wuggly Ump]

Above vampirism quote was from January 2010 - it's just a basic concept. What makes you think, that it clashes with your vision? Please note, that possession or warp exposure are the prereqs for our heros' powers ... as we learned just recently. Also spell casters might be more appealing to you in GD. ;)

Don't get me wrong, it sounds cool! It just doesn't sound like what I had in mind.
The idea of controlling someone's life force is a lot more complicated than just getting health whenever you hit someone, and the wording makes me think more of psionic enslavement (which, while not my style of ARPG gameplay, sounds awesome) than regaining health. But as you say, it's an old post on an unreleased game, so there's no way to know what this vampire class may actually be like.

I like the sound of the new take on spell casters, you're right. The spellcasting system in ARPGs has never felt quite right to me; the reliance on hotkeys means way too many buttons to keep track of. That's probably why I prefer pure melee classes.

By the way, since you seem pretty well-informed - is there a list somewhere of confirmed features and/or information on the game's setting? I know about the "Features" page, but there seems to be a lot of extra stuff spread around these forums. It's hard for a noob like me to track that stuff down.

[eisprinzessin]

this might help you ;)

[Mr_Morningside]

It's sort of like one of those typical ARPG passive abilities that increases critical hit chance, only it is awesome. I will call it Explosion, and it involves explosions.[/I]

I have no idea if any of your suggestions will make it into the game... I will however say, that your entire post was very amusing to read, if that counts for anything. :p

[Executioneer]

(I'm looking at you Sacred 2 grr..).
i totally understand you. sometimes that's what kept me starting from the begining again, cos you get tired of moving like you are dragging a carnival cart behind you, and till you get some boosts, you could be either dead, bored, or out of time.

[accelerator]

You went from the sort of class I crave for (minimal downtime between mobs) to a one button spamfest class. I'd rather have a bit of depth to my game rather than mashing one button repeatedly (and yes I like playing warriors where even 3-4 buttons seems simplisticly mind numbingly boring), you can still have your one button mash spam by turning on cheats (via mods, etc).

[Gargamel]

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Onslaught and Ardor accomplish most of what you are asking. It doesn't target groups but is speeds up you attack with each hit.

Onslaught Description: Frenzied attack which increases your base damage more and more with each attack.

Ardor Description: You build momentum as you drive your attack forward, attacking and moving more rapidly. Level 1-6 gives 6,8,10,12,14,16 percent increase in attack speed and movement.

Mix theses skills with life leeching weapons and you have the same class from diablo.

[The Wuggly Ump]

Oh man, I haven't been here in so long. I guess it doesn't count as thread necro if it's still on the front page of the forum, right?

Time to respond to some really old posts!

You went from the sort of class I crave for (minimal downtime between mobs) to a one button spamfest class. I'd rather have a bit of depth to my game rather than mashing one button repeatedly (and yes I like playing warriors where even 3-4 buttons seems simplisticly mind numbingly boring), you can still have your one button mash spam by turning on cheats (via mods, etc).
I absolutely want a one-button spamfest class, but I want one that's balanced and interesting to play. I think it's kinda silly to suggest that the number of buttons involved is directly related to a game's fun and/or "depth". I don't want to be juggling hotkeys to play on a reasonable difficulty, it's just not how I like to play.

I was thinking about this a bit and I think the speed + absorb health thing would do better with a player-damaging effect that applies while the ability's active, in combination with a health potion nerf. The player's going to be taking damage as soon as the ability's activated, so they need to rush idiotically at any enemy they see and absorb their health, or they'll die from their own hubris. That'd add a bit of urgency and make things more challenging and interesting. It'd also mean the skill in question would need to be a toggle (with a cooldown), so that's one more button required, which I'm assuming will placate all of your issues.

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Onslaught and Ardor accomplish most of what you are asking. It doesn't target groups but is speeds up you attack with each hit.

Onslaught Description: Frenzied attack which increases your base damage more and more with each attack.

Ardor Description: You build momentum as you drive your attack forward, attacking and moving more rapidly. Level 1-6 gives 6,8,10,12,14,16 percent increase in attack speed and movement.

Mix theses skills with life leeching weapons and you have the same class from diablo.
That's indeed how I play TQ, but there are a couple issues I have with those skills: first, 16% is still way too slow, especially the movement. That's more a problem with TQ though, everything in that game is too slow. Second, I become way faster, but I still have to click precisely on top of an enemy to attack it, and as soon as it's dead I have to click on the next enemy; that means going through a mob of monsters becomes tedious rather than glorious. Part of the concept I'm going for in the OP is the ability to direct your character's path of attack rather than target specific enemies. And finally, I want an entire class dedicated to this kinda thing rather than a couple skills, because I'm greedy.

[The Wuggly Ump]

Okay, now I'm also double posting (sorry!), but I had to point out that the Explosion skill I talk about was apparently such a good idea that Diablo III uses it three (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/active/battle-rage) dang (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/active/cleave) times (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/active/wrath-of-the-berserker). I'm totally putting "Design Consultant for Diablo III" on my resume.