Diablo 3 : real money auction house - confirmed

[jamesL]

Blizzard will not be selling items

only players will sell to players

but you have to pay real money to use the AH and blizzard will take a cut

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2528/106113168993.jpg

fom a chinese site
http://d3.178.com/201108/106129901656.html

google translate
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fd3.178.com%2F201108%2F106129901656. html&act=url


http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://d3.178.com/201107/106105930252.html&usg=ALkJrhingghYwtsfbchuGs0MFtJQnmX9Og

[yerkyerk]

I'm not buying that, and I don't mean the items, I believe it's fake.

[ekopalm]

I'm not buying that, and I don't mean the items, I believe it's fake.

I am more than likely not getting the game until it's under 30 bucks. So, i'll have plenty of time to figure out whether it's fake or not. If it's even questionably true I would definitely wait for one or two solid reviews of the game.

I wouldn't doubt that blizzard would implement something like this BUT there has to be legal reasons behind others never doing it.

[Roros]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's the case. Blizzard is sitting on a mammoth IP and they know it, and they'll try to monetize it as much as they can without alienating the average user.

I'm a hopeless diablo fan myself so I must admit I'll get it either way. The saving grace for me is that even if the auction house stuff is true, it won't affect me much since I'm only planning on playing with my friends and not do any trading anyways - it's how I've always played D2.

[jamesL]

http://www.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/2011-diablo-iii-press-event-diablo-iii-auction-house-faq

What’s the difference between the gold-based auction house and the currency-based auction house?

The gold-based auction house uses in-game gold for purchases and sales. With the currency-based auction house, players will be able to conduct these transactions using actual currency from an authorized payment method or from funds that have been added to their Battle.net account. Players can choose to participate in whichever version of the auction house they prefer, on a per-transaction basis.


How is the transaction fee determined?

A nominal fixed transaction fee will be deducted from the seller for each item listed in the auction house. This fee consists of a fixed charge to list the item, which is assessed whether or not the item is successfully sold, and an additional fixed charge that is assessed only if the item is sold. Because the listing portion of the fee is charged even if the item doesn’t sell, it will be in the seller’s interest to list items he or she believes other players will be interested in, and to do so at a competitive price. Specific details related to the transaction fee for the currency-based auction house will vary by region and will be announced at a later date.


link below covers bulleted items

http://www.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/blizzplanet-2011-diablo-iii-press-event-coverage
* Diablo III FAQ
* Diablo III Beta Overview
* Diablo III Beta FAQ
* Diablo III Auction House Overview
* Diablo III Auction House FAQ
* Auction House Screenshots
* Diablo III Beta B-roll video
* Diablo III Gameplay Screenshots
* Diablo III New Tristram Concept Art
* Battle.net Interface and Friend Lists
* Diablo III Class Crests Artwork

[jamesL]

concerning the new skill system

http://www.diablofans.com/topic/26249-diablo-3-press-event-visit/page__pid__621055#entry621055

Instead of 7 active skills, we now only have 6. In addition, the traits system was removed and turned into a "passive skills" section on the skill window, cleaning up the UI quite a lot, and allowing us to choose Skills and "traits" (passive skills) all in one window. That in mind, we can also only have up to 3 passive skills at one time. However, we begin the game with only 2 active skills and no passives. The last four active skill slots can be unlocked at levels 6, 12, 18, and 24, and the three passive skill slots are unlocked at levels 10, 20, and 30. So by the time we complete Normal, you should have unlocked all of the possible skill slots. Now, skill and trait points were also removed. Once you reach a certain level, you unlock X skill and/or X passive that you can swap in and out as you see fit. Again though, you can only have 6 actives and 3 passives at any given time. The reasoning behind this is to remove the Diablo 2 style of thinking, where we save all of our points and dump them into better skills, once we hit the end game. Jay said that they found employees (in the alpha) dumping all their points into say, Magic Missiles, until they unlocked Arcane Orb. They would then respec, and dump all their points into Arcane Orb, until they unlocked the next tier skill. This system didn't really make much sense and allowing us to hot-swap skills/passives whenever we want gives us the ability to "test" the skills without worrying about wasting any points. With skill points gone, skills/traits will scale with your level/gear. For example, a skill like Bash will scale with your weapon damage, whereas something like Disintegrate will scale with level.

[matthewfarmery]

I read reports on the official Bnet forums, that there will be an AH in the game, to read that its been confirmed, and that players CAN use real money (and guess which system most will use, any kid with their parents credit card will go overboard) now D3 really is like WOW in some respects. and yeah blizzard will make a mint from it, this to me is just as bad as incomplete games which have DLC sold as addons, and another reason for users accounts to be hacked, but aren't blizzard now forcing the authenticator now?

I think using real money would be very unfair, at least for arenas, whiere someone can easy afford to buy the complete set, then trash lower level geared players. and its VERY probably that most of the BEST GEAR! will ONLY be on the real money AH, I don't see everyone using the gold one, or the amount of goods on it will be decent, so it will very easy set a divide amongst players

I'm not impressed, but I think it was only a matter of time before blizzard find a way to make a mint from the series, and they will probably make a really big mint


edit

oh boy, something else blizzard have done, they got rid of skill points

In addition to the three new items and stash information, we were told that the Skill system has gotten a complete revamp. Instead of 7 active skills, we now only have 6. In addition, the traits system was removed and turned into a "passive skills" section on the skill window, cleaning up the UI quite a lot, and allowing us to choose Skills and "traits" (passive skills) all in one window. That in mind, we can also only have up to 3 passive skills at one time. However, we begin the game with only 2 active skills and no passives. The last four active skill slots can be unlocked at levels 6, 12, 18, and 24, and the three passive skill slots are unlocked at levels 10, 20, and 30. So by the time we complete Normal, you should have unlocked all of the possible skill slots. Now, skill and trait points were also removed. Once you reach a certain level, you unlock X skill and/or X passive that you can swap in and out as you see fit. Again though, you can only have 6 actives and 3 passives at any given time. The reasoning behind this is to remove the Diablo 2 style of thinking, where we save all of our points and dump them into better skills, once we hit the end game. Jay said that they found employees (in the alpha) dumping all their points into say, Magic Missiles, until they unlocked Arcane Orb. They would then respec, and dump all their points into Arcane Orb, until they unlocked the next tier skill. This system didn't really make much sense and allowing us to hot-swap skills/passives whenever we want gives us the ability to "test" the skills without worrying about wasting any points. With skill points gone, skills/traits will scale with your level/gear. For example, a skill like Bash will scale with your weapon damage, whereas something like Disintegrate will scale with level. Yes, big changes! I'm actually a really big fan of the revamping of the skill/trait system. As I said earlier, it really cleans up the UI by consolidating the system into just one window, and the ability to hotswap skills is awesome. It means that I will never have to respec, which in turn means I will never have to have more than one character for the class (unless I want a male/female). This system will allow me to play and test each skill in my build without punishment, which is fine by me.
-Sixen of Diablofans.com



-----------------------------------

well, that really does it, it just means less customisable characters, looks like D3 is going right down the drain, first the RMAH, now, no skill points, this isn't diablo, what the FRELL!!! are Blizzard doing to the game?

Hurry up Crate, I think GD will be a very good D3 killer, as I have utterly no plans WHAT SO EVER to buy the abomination that is D3, Blizzard have lost my support, and I was really looking forward to D3, well not anymore, game isn't going to flop, but I see it not doing very well either, anyone not happy about the removal of the skill system?

[Keyrock]

I'll almost definitely still get Diablo 3 eventually but I don't have the inclination, nor the patience to farm for stuff to sell in an auction house, and I sure as **** won't be spending any real money in a AH either. So if there is any PvP I'll be getting my ass kicked by people with much better equipment.

/shrugs

[jamesL]

edit

oh boy, something else blizzard have done, they got rid of skill points


-Sixen of Diablofans.com



I posted the exact same thing from the exact same place directly above your post

[mithrial]

I preordered it over a year ago but now I'm really thinking about canceling this order. Everything that made Diablo 2 good was erased and everything that kept me from playing WoW was included.

[DragonWolf]

Next thing you know they'll be asking for monthy subscription fees just to use D3 online.

[matthewfarmery]

I think that is already the point with them taking a cut for every real money AH sale, the fact you can sell gold for real money, even if you can't take the money from people's account, it will end up going to Blizzard anyway, so that is the subscription thing already done and dusted

makes me sick

[Keyrock]

And the news gets worse. Reminiscent of Ubisoft's much despised DRM, it seems that Diablo 3 will require you to always be connected to the internet, even when playing offline single player:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/313717/diablo-3-requires-constant-internet-connection/

Blizzard has revealed that the long-awaited Diablo 3 will require players to be constantly connected to the internet, even after an initial authentication process has been completed.

According to Blizzard's executive vice president of game design Rob Pardo, this requirement is due to the implementation of numerous new Battle.net and Auction House features.

Those features include the following:

A persistent friends list.
Cross-game chat via the RealID system.
Persistent characters that are stored server-side (no more having to play online once every 90 days, nor item duplication cheats).
Persistent party system.
Player-versus-player and public game matchmaking.
Dynamic drop-in/out for co-op
Larger item stash that gets shared among all of your characters (at the moment, up to 10)
The auction house (allows players to sell loot for real money)
The Achievement system and detailed stat-tracking, both of which feed into the final point:
The Banner system, a visual way to display your skills that take into account earned achievements, the number of PVP victories etc. Banners can be clicked to teleport to other players.

Blizzard's confirmed that Diablo 3 will be playable at GamesCom in Cologne, which takes place mid-August.
Looks like I might not be Buying D3 after all.

[matthewfarmery]

FRELL!!!

that is one way to lose sales, including an always on internet connection, why no guest account? that is just so stupid, well, as I was NOT going to buy it anyway, this just reinforces that fact, there will be outrage over this move,

anyone now feeling that D3 is fast becoming a MMO, raise your hands

[Renevent]

Here is a good article on it:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/01/diablo-3-will-let-players-buy-and-sell-items-for-real-money/


Diablo 3 will let players buy and sell items for real money

Tom Francis at 08:01am August 1 2011

Diablo 3 Auction House sell

This is going to be interesting. On Tuesday, Blizzard invited us to their headquarters in Irvine, California to announce that Diablo 3 will feature an auction house that lets players buy and sell in-game items for real money.

At the same event, they revealed that Diablo 3 requires a constant internet connection to play – there’s no offline mode at all.

This is not the same as the microtransaction model we’ve seen in other games: Blizzard themselves aren’t selling any in-game items. The auction house will be entirely player driven: everything you see there was found by someone, and most of the money spent to buy it goes to the player who found or crafted it.

Read on for more details, and Blizzard’s justifications for it.

Blizzard’s cut


It will cost a small flat rate to list an item on the auction house, and Blizzard will take another flat rate fee when the sale is completed. Both figures will be in real money, but they’re not proportional to the value of the item. Blizzard say they wanted to stay away from taking a percentage cut.

“Percentages really incentivise us to manipulate the system,” says lead designer Jay Wilson, “and we don’t even want the incentive to do that, much less actually doing it.”

Despite the flat fees they take, Blizzard don’t expect it to be a money spinner for them. “We expect it’ll break even,” lead designer Jay Wilson says.

“We talked about this as a service we wanted to provide players, and not primarily as a financial model… we don’t know if it will make us money. It would be nice if it did, but as long as we don’t lose money, that’s really what we care about: that we provide the players with a great experience that doesn’t put us out of business.”

I asked if they’d still do it even if they couldn’t take a cut of the sales. “Absolutely,” says Jay.
Value to the player


“We think it’s really going to add a lot of depth to the game,” says executive producer Rob Pardo. “If I have more money than time I can purchase items, or if I’m leet in the game I can get benefits out of it.”

“The players really want it. This is something that we know people are going to do either way. We can provide them a really safe, awesome, fun experience, or they’ll find ways of doing it elsewhere.”

It’s true that some players bought and sold in-game items for both the previous Diablo games through unauthorised third parties. I’m not convinced that means the player base at large want it to be a part of the game.

You won’t be able to buy a game-endingly good sword at level 1, since items have minimum level requirements. But the real-world value of 100,000 gold for a level 40 character is bound to be a lot less than it’s worth to a level 1.

Other auction houses


No-one has to use the real-money auction house of course. “If no-one wants to do it,” Rob says, “there’ll be no trading whatsoever.” Diablo 3 will have a second, separate auction house that operates only on in-game gold. It won’t cost any real money to list your items there. But since gold itself can be bought and sold on the real money auction house, it won’t be entirely isolated from its effects.

There’ll be a separate auction house for each currency Blizzard can accept: UK players won’t see items listed by their US friends. Within regions, players can choose to switch to a different auction house, but there’s a conversion cost for buying items from the auction house that isn’t in your native currency. So European players can switch between the UK pounds sterling auction house and the Euro one. But they can’t switch to the US action house, because the US is a different region.
Cashing out


Each week players will receive a number of ‘free listings’ for the real money auction house, letting them put items up for sale without having to pay real money. Even if you haven’t entered your credit card details, you can earn real money from items this way.

Cashing out will be dealt with by a third party Blizzard aren’t ready to announce, and that party will charge a fee for the withdrawal. If you don’t withdraw your funds, you can spend them on other items in the auction house, or to buy anything else from the Blizzard store – which carries digital versions of all their major games, and in-game pets for World of Warcraft.

What about those other Blizzard games? “I think this works particularly well within the Diablo system.” says Rob. “99.9% of the items will not be soulbound in any way.” In World of Warcraft, soulbinding prevents you from trading many items to other players. “I really don’t see us doing it for WoW ever.”

Gold farming


The obvious question, then, is how this will affect gold farming: people who repeatedly play the most profitable parts of a game to sell the in-game proceeds for real money. They already plague World of Warcraft without a legal way to sell the proceeds – isn’t this just encouraging them? Rob answers with a question.

“What’s the difference between a player that plays the game a lot and a gold farmer? They’re really doing the same activity. If you are doing an activity where all you’re trying to do is generate items for the auction house, you’re not making someone else’s game experience poorer. If anything you’re making the game better, because you’re generating items for the auction house that people want to purchase.”

Since no-one can join your game of Diablo 3 without your permission, grinding gold farmers won’t be as intrusive as in the public world of WoW. Their effect on the economy, though, is hard to predict.
The cheapening


I have a different concern. To me, the pleasure of Diablo is finding these items – that nerdy thrill of seeing some gold letters amongst the loot that twirls out of a dying boss. Better still, of finding a randomly generated weapon whose stats put my current kit to shame.

I don’t mind that I’ll be able to sell that for real money in Diablo 3, but I mind that I could have just bought it in the first place. Not for some prohibitively huge some of in-game gold, but the spare change in my wallet.

I asked Jay if they saw this as a problem. “That’s not anything different than Diablo 2,” he says. “The best items that came through that game did come through trading, and came through interacting with other players.”

True for some, I guess, but one of the reasons they’re doing this is that there weren’t convenient ways to find and trade items in the previous Diablo games, and no safe way to do so for real money. By making it easy, legal and searchable, Blizzard have put the boring option temptingly close to the long and rewarding search for great loot. I don’t have to take it, of course, but I worry the search will seem that much longer and less rewarding with a Buy It Now button nestled right next to it.

[Code187]

seems the only thing you can do is kill stuff, and craft, nothing els, no attributes- no skills to mingle with. what crap is that????
have to say i lost 50% if that is true.

[Scryer]

The Real Money AH is no different than D2JSP.

It's not going to stop me from playing Diablo 3, because D2JSP didn't stop me from playing diablo 2.

seems the only thing you can do is kill stuff, and craft, nothing els, no attributes- no skills to mingle with. what crap is that????
have to say i lost 50% if that is true.

Actually you can decide what stats you want with your gear choice and gem choices.

You can decide out of 24 skills which 6 skills you want and how you want them modified by 5 runes.

You also have 3 passive skills to choose from 15 different passive skill choices.

[hooby]

I'm not buying that, and I don't mean the items, I believe it's fake.

Even if they are doing this for real in China - doesn't mean they'll do it over here too.

Starcraft 2 has completely different payment models in China and Russia too.

Since many people there play from internet cafe's, they have to pay per account or something, not for the game client.

In Russia there's some sort of buy really cheap, but pay monthly fee for online play system in place.

So why shouldn't D3 be getting different payment models abroad too.

[Skellt]

Bash has stated on forums for instance, that you'd get a few free post on the AH every week, so assuming that, you can sell a few items, to get in game cash and buy new stuff, instead of buying em with real money.

Only thing i am not 100% is bash seemed to mention you could cash out the items.. meaning profit.. prolly small, but still..

In any regards, i wont be using AH unless i can cash out for RL money

[matthewfarmery]

i've been reading some of the posts on the official forums, the main problem with the AH is this, Blizzard WANTS the best items on the RMAH (real money auction house) rather then on the GAH, and they will put their foot down if crap items start appearing on the RMAH. However, as someone has pointed out, while you aren't forced to buy goods with real money, the fact that you CAN, will lead to gold =$ , and the differences between them won't be there, as you can simply buy gold with the RMAH to buy on the GAH, but then what decent items will be on the GAH if Blizzard only want decent stuff on it? which means Blizzard will take a cut, and even then, where does this money go? (not talking about the cut from blizzard) as blizzard have said this money will not be reversable, you can put money in the account, (which will be linked to your Bnet account and the deal is been finalised it seems) but you can't convert that money to your bank, the money is then used for buying more items, which means the money will just end up in Blizzard pockets after a few transactions

this will or may destroy the economy, as items may be over priced anyway, and blizzard haven't confirmed if you put higher value items on RMAH that their fee is increased (wouldn't surprise me) so I think blizzard will mae a tidy profit from this, or maybe that should be Activision?

but it all boils down to this, Gold will be worthless, as people may use real money for pretty much everything, so what is the point of farming? what is the point in even levelling? as the skills level with you, once you got them, your just grinding for better gear and maybe the occasion money sink

I really hope this game is a complete and utter flop, I really do, the AH thing I think is a very bad idea, and completely devalues gold, or makes gold equal to real money, as you just use that instead, there is no point in gold, you can buy gold in the RMAH, but what is the point when you can just use real money instead? its a flawed system and I hope it gets removed

[Scryer]

Well, the point in leveling is that once you get to level 60 you can start farming for great items and sell them for a nice profit.

Or just play with your friends.

[yerkyerk]

Well, there's been numerous D2 item selling sites and it spawned an entire thriving community (d2jsp). So, they probably figured that they might as well keep it in-house, offering better and safer quality and get a cut of the action. Still, I can hardly believe they're doing this. At least there will also be gold auctions.

The question is indeed if this will destroy the in-game currency. At least for non-crap items.

This is actually all optional, so it should be a good thing, right? You can ignore the entire auction stuff if you don't like it. And the gold auction house is definitely a huge improvement over anything D2 had to offer. Still, the announcement leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Perhaps because Blizzard's greed has become really apparant now.

[matthewfarmery]

Well, the point in leveling is that once you get to level 60 you can start farming for great items and sell them for a nice profit.

Or just play with your friends.

which by the sounds of it, may not take people long, you will be level 30 by the time you finished normal (as they said you will have unlocked all your skills by then) so I really don't see the point playing nightmare or hell, PVP is pretty worthless, as blizzard have said this isn't an e sport. so the game really has hardly any replay value at all

[Skellt]

well the thing is, regardless of if there was an AH or not, the point is, there are currently PLENTY of "illegal" sites already creating AH and getting players to pay for given items.

So those are already kinda in anyway, the idea of blizz is to control that, and i dont see why they wouldnt, seems like a very good idea for them to do it.

Take pretty much ANY item based game, any MMO, any online rpg, and google "buy sword of X in X game" you'll be able to order that sword from a website, connect in a game and get it.

That is a real concern as it already is, because 1st you can get fucked (even though most of those that "steal" your money are out nowdays) and 2nd you previously could get banned for it.

Blizz wants to control that, yes to earn more money, but also give some players the oportunity to do it without concern in a controlled environement.

I agree with it because regardless of what you do or think, regardless of if that AH is created or not, it WILL happen, through other means.

i totally agree with you guys, i think it is simply wrong to buy in game power, but that is something we WILL have to live with as many buisness models will are and will be based around that.
If blizz gives me the oportunity to cash out items to my bank account that would be even better, i do hope they do so, that way i WOULD use the AH.. even if its 1$, if you can turn it 5$ a week thats 260$ a year. that'd be great can get some Xmas gifts with that.

But if they dont i will not be using the AH. we'll see

[Skellt]

well mathew,

tell me you cant say the same about D2

You finish normal by level 30-40 got the skills you want and what did you do? dunno about you but i played nearly 10 characters to level 90+

Isnt it the same with titan quest? i beleive it is, sure there is modding, but really, you built your char through normal, did you play through the rest of the acts? prolly, and so did i

As far as pvp goes, they made it more viable than D2

What was the pvp in D2?

Essentialy i had a dragonkick assassin that would kill you in 1 hit and you'd never see it coming since i tped.

Pvp was essentially who can land the 1st hit wins.

Now they actually made it so you fight your way to victory

[matthewfarmery]

my problem is the RMAH, and blizzard have said that reversing the money back to your bank account isn't possible, it stays in your linked account for you to buy more items, once you put money in the system, you can't take it out, it will stay in the system

which still means that blizzard will still get their hands on the money sooner or later, I don't see the point of a RMAH, if it used gold then fine, but a lot of people over on blizzard forums are voicing their concerns over the RMAH and how it will destroy the game

[Skellt]

i was unsure if i could cash out. but that really depends on who is willing to pay, personally i never will, but i understand the concern

[hooby]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/interviews/9046-Diablo-IIIs-Auction-House

[Scryer]

You can cash money out, but not the money that's in your Battle.net RMAH.

What I mean is that once you set up an account with their provider, they will cash out whatever you sell to your bank account, however you can't cash out money from your Battle.net account.

So so long as you sell items you'll get cash in your bank account with the third party provider.

It's essentially a catch 22, either you sell items and get a profit in your bank account, or you sell items and use that money to buy items from the AH.

You could pull the money from your bank account and use it to purchase items on the AH, but then it would turn into Battle.net cash again and you wouldn't be able to pull it out of the system.

They are still working on all the details.

[OneEyeRed]

Man, I don't want to rehash everything that is said but I am in utter disappointment. One of the greatest franchises of all time is now ruined beyond belief. The farmers are going to be massive now that they can farm legitimately in game and sell.

Why is there in-game currency and a crap AH? Is this some kind of sick joke Blizzard? Who is going to use it to sell or buy when real money can be had essentially making D3 a farming game. There is a reason I have waned further away from gaming over the last two years and let's face it, things are changing for the worse. They are still deciding on a micro-trans shop as well for vanity items at the moment. What is D3 now considered a MMO too?

Thoroughly disheartened over this mess. First the craptastic graphics I had to get over and now this. I remember a day when developers had a sincere passion for creating awesome worlds and stories and making a honest living. Now, corporate greed rules because of this newer game generation. it's like Captain Tripps spreading in the game world....

[Scryer]

Diablo 2 had massive farming and bots.

Don't expect Diablo 3 to have bots, they will likely be perma banned.

Farming is a part of every ARPG even Titan Quest,

[OneEyeRed]

Diablo 2 had massive farming and bots.

Don't expect Diablo 3 to have bots, they will likely be perma banned.

Farming is a part of every ARPG even Titan Quest,

Yes I agree Scryer, but farming in TQ is far different than what Blizz is offering up. There is a big difference farming a single player game over a a massive multi-player game. The difference here is that farming in-game now earns you real cash in-game. So basically the in-game currency is a laughing joke and why do they even keep it around? The game's economy is going to be crap.

Not to mention people can just play the RCAH now for that uber PvP gear, etc.. so there is no need to even play much of the game especially once the drop rate and area is figured out. Bahh I ought to just give it up already and leave my opinions to myself I know.

For me, they just killed the best game franchise on the planet and they can keep this garbage I won't buy it. I have enough jobs already and I am not playing Diablo 3 the undisclosed MMO in disguise.

[Harlequin]

If you place an item you pay a fee.
If your item is sold Blizzard takes a cut.
If you want to get your money Blizzard takes a cut.
If you want to store the money on your b.net account it's fine but you won't be able to get it out later.
You have to decide beforehand if you want to be sold out or if you want to store it.

Normally I would call this a huge scam (especially the last part) but hey it's Blizzard so it's okay I guess?

More fun features:
- you have to be online to play. No offline-mode.
- realID
- no endgame-content
- no skillpoints
- I even read that you wont get attribute-points per level as well (cant confirm)

Can't wait to finally ignore this game once it comes out.

[Skellt]

graphics is an entire different subject than this, and it belongs to everyone's opinion.

the thing though compared to mmos, is while there is an AH.. and you say there will be farmers, you can also choose to ignore them and pretty much never seem them as opposed to for instance WoW wher you see bots at every corner of the world.

Personally i'm not too concerned and i will still get the game.

[Skellt]

i see the concern of everyone

but personally i dont know how you guys played D2 but... i played with single player or with friends in private games.. and if i choose to ignore the AH, i dont see how the farmers and such will affect my gameplay at all

[shawnmck]

Does this mean that items (weapons & armor sets) are going to be scarce and extremely hard to find?

Cause if that is going to be the case, then I'm gonna be pissed.
:mad:

[OneEyeRed]

Well you can always count on Blizz to stand by their laurels and quality right? oh, wait, this only applies to WOW right?:


From Blizzard in 2007: The game's Terms of Use clearly states that all World of Warcraft content is the property of Blizzard Entertainment, and Blizzard does not allow 'in-game' items to be sold for real money. Not only do we believe that doing so would be illegal, but it also has the potential to damage the game economy and overall experience for the many thousands of others who play World of Warcraft for fun ... While we can understand the temptation to purchase items for real money, we feel that players can find ample equipment and money for their characters within the game through their own adventuring and questing.

[matthewfarmery]

and now for D3 they done a massive U turn, at least on their stance with buying items with real money, and someone on the Bnet forums, said, I live in a country that has laws against buying virtual goods with real money, and there are quite a few places that also have laws against this? I think blizzard may have a fight on its hands? and probably going to get very messy indeed

[Keyrock]

i see the concern of everyone

but personally i dont know how you guys played D2 but... i played with single player or with friends in private games.. and if i choose to ignore the AH, i dont see how the farmers and such will affect my gameplay at all
Yeah the AH doesn't scare me away because, as you noted, I can just ignore that aspect of the game and if others have more uber gear than I do then so be it. What does scare me away is the draconian always connected DRM.

[Harlequin]

Does this mean that items (weapons & armor sets) are going to be scarce and extremely hard to find?

Cause if that is going to be the case, then I'm gonna be pissed.
:mad:

You can bet that the real rare items (gold, sets) will be a lot harder to find than before. Of course to make it rewarding to find it and more challenging and blabla.

[Skellt]

yeah well i mean, i dont know about you, but my internet is always on so i do not see a big deal unless it absorbs a large chunck of my bandwidth..

the AH itself as lawyer caveman said, it can be ignored, so for me its not a concern.

i dunno i dont seem to be frustrated at all, it was guessable they'd make an AH, they want the money, not websites

straight from GI review on the matter, pretty much summarize what i think

"To hate, or not to hate

Before you fly off the handle (trust me, that was my first reaction too), consider the fact that the secondary market will exist whether Blizzard sanctions it or not. Heck, people still pay cash for Diablo II items. At least this way you're not giving your credit card to a shady gray market operator in China.

That said, I wish there were a way I could flag a character to ignore the real money transactions and only play with other non-RMT heroes. Hardcore characters are like that already, but I don't always want to play hardcore style.

Ultimately, Diablo isn't about competition nearly to the extent of World of Warcraft or a competitive shooter or RTS – game director Jay Wilson flat-out stated that he's not worried about achieving any kind of e-sport-viable balance in PvP. As long as I can still co-op with my buddies and have a good time taking down the prime evils (which is a question I'm not worried about the answer to, as my gameplay hands-on preview reveals), I'm not going to throw a huge fit over the RMT auction house."

[Harlequin]

Those things by themselves are generally not that bad.
All those together with realID and everything however gives DIII a bad vibe imo. It just doesn't feel right at all.
I think all this would happen if the higher-ups in EA grew a brain all of a sudden. And we all dont want that right?

[yerkyerk]

Well, D2 had a broken economy, mostly because there was no viable in-game currency. D3 can have a viable in-game currency, but will it survive the real money auction houses?

Also, while I can easily ignore the websites offering this kind of shit, at least it was condemned. Now Blizzard is bathing in it because they can make a cheap buck. Saying that otherwise it'll happen anyway is treading on morally unstable grounds. I mean; "Why not screw over your customers? Otherwise others will do it anyway?"

That being said, not too concerned about it, the in-game currency AH is awesome, the real money AH sucks balls.

[Harlequin]

That being said, not too concerned about it, the in-game currency AH is awesome, the real money AH sucks balls.
*you are reading this in Swain's voice*
My thoughts exactly.

[shawnmck]

This seems like just another way to covertly obtain more money from the consumer.

What's that old saying....."Don't bite the hand that feeds you."

Oh wait, that only applies to smart people. More and more people are encouraged to be stupid these days, so they will get away with it.
:furious:

[Renevent]

Nice interview explaining Blizzard's motivations. Just a note it does appear there will be a gold auction house as well (none real money).


Blizzard defends Diablo III’s auction house, always-online requirement
Nathan Grayson at 06:56pm August 1 2011
Comments 0
Diablo III_beta_Wizard vs Skeleton King 2

Diablo’s finally back, but has it sold its soul to a bonafide gaming devil? Not exactly. After the big unveiling of Diablo’s new real money auction house, we sat down with online technologies VP Robert Bridenbecker to hear Blizzard’s side of the story.

PCG: Why did you decide to implement an auction house system instead of typical microtransactions, which have pretty much been turning everything they touch into gold lately?

Bridenbecker: Really, what you’re talking about there is the hallmark of what Blizzard’s all about. We really try and get into what’s in the best interest of players. And any time you introduce that business-to-consumer relationship, it muddles the waters some. So the person starts to think “Why is Blizzard doing this? They’re obviously doing it because it’s in the best interest of the business.” But if it’s something where it’s player-to-player, it actually takes away some of the questions as to why we’re doing it. Just by the very definition of player-to-player, it shows that it’s actually for the players. It’s about the players.

PCG: Obviously, though, monetizing virtual goods is a touchy subject. Are you expecting any fan backlash? I mean, your fans have been known to keep pitchforks and torches stuffed in their giant foam “Blizzard is number one” fingers…

Bridenbecker: No so much, no. Because the players want it. They’ve shown in the past that there’s a demand to buy items. And from our perspective, what we determined was that we needed to provide a safe and secure environment for that demand. By putting it in the game—integrating it and providing it in a way where we’re really just facilitating it—it really opens it up for them. I think everybody’s going to be really happy with it.

PCG: Given the success of free-to-play games and the premium society in general now places on digital, well, everything, do you think the notion that virtual items aren’t worth real money is antiquated?

Bridenbecker: Well, one of the things that’s unique about what we’ve come up with is that players don’t have to use it. It’s completely optional. We provide a couple different facilities for players who feel like the real money aspect somehow taints the experience. We’ve got a gold-based auction house [as well]. So those players are going to be able to avail themselves in that gold-based auction house. And then for players who are excited about purchasing items or even selling them, they’ll be able to use the real money auction house.

PCG: So, with Battle.net, you’ve got your own storefront/network that binds all your games’ communities together. But then, over on the other side of Activision, there’s Call of Duty: Elite, which does many of the same things, but for different games. Elsewhere, meanwhile, there’s Origin, Steam, and all their ilk. Do you think social features are becoming overly stratified and proprietary?

Bridenbecker: Yeah, it’s a great question. I mean, it’s a really unique time in the industry. You’ve got all the various social landscapes that are cropping up. I do believe that players are always going to want to gravitate toward the games. And individual game networks that provide social networking capabilities just enhance that overall quality. So the fact that there happen to be different products isn’t that much of a concern. The fact that I have different social networks in those products is really not that big of a deal.

PCG: Diablo III is following in StarCraft II’s footsteps and going online-only. Is it possible, though, that you might be pushing online functionality a bit too hard? I mean, what about the players who just want to tune out the world? If they, say, slay a big boss and then a chat bubble suddenly pops up, doesn’t that sort of ruin the moment?

Bridenbecker: I don’t think that individuals want to isolate themselves and be solitary cave people. But I definitely believe that individuals prefer to play in more isolated environments at times. That doesn’t necessarily have to compete with the goal of having things online. The capabilities that get presented when you push people into an online connected environment are so much broader. It’s like Rob [Pardo] was talking about: Imagine you have a world where you want to play in an entirely single-player environment. You go through and you level up your character and you get all these awesome item drops and so forth. Then you say, “OK, I do want to play with my buddy.” Well, guess what? We have to make you re-roll a new character because we can’t guarantee [a lack of cheating or hacking]. In an online environment, we can do that.

PCG: Is there any way to make sure that people can’t bug you, though? To essentially replicate a completely single-player experience even though you’re required to be online?

Bridenbecker: There’s definitely a question as to how much an individual is participating in the community and how much you award them the option to say, “I’m no longer a participant.” I mean, the reality is that most people, when they’re in a game and they say that they’re busy, other players are going to respect that. If somebody happens to intrude, you know, it’s your friend. Just tell them, “Hey man, when I’m busy, leave me alone.”

PCG: Do you have an overarching plan for Battle.net as a whole? An idea of what you’d like it to evolve into? For instance, would you like to expand it to include more games—say, from other developers or publishers?

Bridenbecker: Our main focus is enriching Blizzard titles. We definitely have had conversations about the best way to evolve Blizzard titles. Could that lead into a different [publisher/developer] world? You know, who knows what the future holds? But right now, no.

[matthewfarmery]

@Renevent

I did mention that in my posts, and had it as GAH (I guess I should have made it clearer) but the problem is, as I already mentioned, blizzard will want the best stuff on the RMAH, so I think the GAH will have just low quality stuff, (or junk in over words) this is blizzards plan to make the RMAH where all the good stuff goes onto, so I don't really know how much stuff will be on the GAH or their quality, but from many posts over on Bnet forums, most are saying the best stuff will appear on RMAH and the gold one might not be used or used that well, because if you found a very good item, and you spent time finding it, you won't put it on the GAH will you? if you got the funds and its a hot item (all the rage) then it will be on the RMAH

this is the problem, and the fact you can sell gold for real money makes its a bit pointless

[Renevent]

How will they stop someone from putting an awesome item on the GAH? I didn't see where they said they were going to put these kinds of controls on there. I think there will probably two markets...not everyone is interested in gaming for $$$. I do think the MAH will be more popular, though.

*edit*

I am not sure how I feel about all the recently announced D3 changes...one thing is for sure though...I absolutely hated trading in D2. What a pain in the butt! I am glad there will be a AH in D3 even if I am indifferent/unsure to the $$$ aspect of it.

[matthewfarmery]

I read over on the Bnet forums, but can't find the original link, that the devs wants the best stuff on the RMAH, that if it has junk, they will put their foot down, however most people I think will put the decent stuff on the RMAH, even though you can't take money out of the system, (but there seems to be mixed reports about that) the money you make can be used for the blizzard store / WOW sub, and D3 items, wo why bother then putting decent stuff on the GAH? in fact what is the point? gold will be worless, as many people will probably use real money anyway, but anyway, I still think its a concern, that and the other changes, looks like the beta is out and only those that have invites can download it, but judging from the posts, is short, just a single dungeon or something like that, and they want people to stress test the server (currently been one) but people aren't that happy about the beta at all, hardly a beta to be honest, (not got an invite, and wouldn't care if I had one or not)

[Renevent]

I'd be interested in that link because in the interviews Blizzard did not seem to take that stance at all. And speaking of gold being worthless then it will be exactly like D2 lol. D2 had two markets...runes and places like J2SP where people were already buying in game items with real currency.

I never used it, and tons of people did...didn't ruin my game experience.

Will have to wait and see of course frankly the skill changes has me wincing more than anything. I have been 'always online' for the last 10 years and optional $$$ AH really doesn't bother me.

[OneEyeRed]

You have a choice of putting money in the bnet account or paying an additional fee by an outside entity (still in negotiations) to have the money electronically sent to you probably Paypal, bank account, etc... How many gamer's though does anyone think are going to use the craptastic gold auction house when they can make real money on the RMAH.

Sorry, but human beings desire for monetary things and real money will supersede the joke of that "other" auction house. They make absolutely no sense in doing what they are doing. They are better off having one or the other because people are not going to be selling items for in-game gold that is useless. They will sell them for real money transactions.

They destroyed this game for me either way and I want nothing to do with it anymore. It has so far deviated from Diablo and D2 that it shouldn't even be regarded as a sequel...

[Skellt]

I never used it, and tons of people did...didn't ruin my game experience.

Will have to wait and see of course frankly the skill changes has me wincing more than anything. I have been 'always online' for the last 10 years and optional $$$ AH really doesn't bother me.

my thoughts exactly

[matthewfarmery]

can't find the link, the thread burred under loads of posts, but I'm pretty sure the bash said that blizzard wants good items on RMAH, if junk appears there they will deal with it, or something like that, but as I said there been too many posts and threads, its hard to track over there, sorry

but yeah, this game is looking less and less like a true blooded sequel to D2, instead a means of gaining more money from an already greedy set of companies, real shame, I was so looking forward to it, but over time, I have become less and less impressed

well roll on GD, as you are my only hope for a proper ARPG now

[Skellt]

i dont understand how this is such a big fuss. you guys do realize that you dont have to pay if you dont want to, and you can completely ignore the AH system if you want to right?

[OneEyeRed]

can't find the link, the thread burred under loads of posts, but I'm pretty sure the bash said that blizzard wants good items on RMAH, if junk appears there they will deal with it, or something like that, but as I said there been too many posts and threads, its hard to track over there, sorry

but yeah, this game is looking less and less like a true blooded sequel to D2, instead a means of gaining more money from an already greedy set of companies, real shame, I was so looking forward to it, but over time, I have become less and less impressed

well roll on GD, as you are my only hope for a proper ARPG now

The link you are talking about I also read and I confirm you were right. They are not going to let crap items hit the RMAH and they will be policing it.

[OneEyeRed]

i dont understand how this is such a big fuss. you guys do realize that you dont have to pay if you dont want to, and you can completely ignore the AH system if you want to right?

This is just the nail in the coffin for me Skellt. It has been one thing after another and I keep saying oh, I can live with that I guess, and oh I guess since it's Diablo the mother of all games I can live with that too but enough is enough for me.

It's like the BF3 and MW3 nonsense for me. They can keep their over-hyped crap and I'll take RAGE instead. Same goes here, give me GD, TL2, and I may even say Path of Exile more so at this point. But I am done feeding the greed machine that Blizz has become. I been a Diablo fanatic from the original and this is not Diablo anymore. This the unconfirmed new MMO titled Diablo 3 lol.

[Skellt]

This is just the nail in the coffin for me Skellt. It has been one thing after another and I keep saying oh, I can live with that I guess, and oh I guess since it's Diablo the mother of all games I can live with that too but enough is enough for me.

It's like the BF3 and MW3 nonsense for me. They can keep their over-hyped crap and I'll take RAGE instead. Same goes here, give me GD and I may even say Path of Exile more so at this point. But I am done feeding the greed machine that Blizz has become. I been a Diablo fanatic from the original and this is not Diablo anymore. This the unconfirmed new MMO titled Diablo 3 lol.

i mean, nail in the coffin i dont know what you dont like about other than that i have no read every single post you made nor that everybody made beforehand but..
You do realize that it is ALREADY happening in D2, WoW, ANY item based for that matter..

and regardless of how Grimdawn is popular it WILL happen trough legal or illegal means right?

Take any item based games and tell me you cant buy items with real money on internet. to be frank ive seen pretty much all of them.

Just go on d2jsp... its widely used.. did you use it? and how is the AH different.

ANY game where you can trade, it WILL happen, wether it be through the in game system or through websites.

You can choose to ignore it or use it, personally when i play i play with given players that i wana play with and those a private games where no farmer can enter.

and also, D3 is mostly a Coop game, not a pvp game (regardless of what everyone claim about d2, try and face a dragon kick assassin that 1shots everything... that is not PVP)

Buying items will benefit the player against PvE monster, if you're willing to pay for that, go right ahead, i,d rather it be in a controlled fashion than through some random website.

AND they are actually making PVP viable now. tbh i dont care at all as i know the RMAH will not affect my gameplay experience And on top of that, > NOT A SINGLE ONE OF US HAS PLAYED THE GAME YET < you hardly know how it'll play out regardless of what you read. that, is a fact

[OneEyeRed]

Well to each their own and my feelings, opinion are validated for me as yours are for you. I just have no desire for DAIBWOW anymore plain and simple. That's coming from a very hardcore Diablo fan no less. They ruined this game on so many levels for me personally. However, I hope you get what you want out of it and wish you the best :)

[Skellt]

fair enough haha i'll tell you how i like it :P thats also coming from a very hardcore diablo fan :P

[yerkyerk]

I think they're stresstesting their userbase currently -.-

It's painfully obvious that they're trynig to cover up the thing by saying they're doing it all for the players sake, because if they did, they wouldn't take a cut. Ofcourse they're twisting it as such. But every greedy corporation does the same, so really, they're just no different from the rest.

One thing I'm more concerned about, psychologically, is that people won't enjoy the game anymore once they start earning money with it. They will see it as a job, rather than playing. And that's not me theorycrafting, it's actually a well known psychological theory that if you suddenly get rewarded for doing something you enjoy, you'll enjoy it a lot less, if the reward is removed.

Oh well, I just need to stay away from the MAH and hope the GAH and in-game currency won't bomb because of this.

[Roros]

I'm not quite following the skillpoints panic. There are a ton of things that are wrong with diablo2's skills and attributes system, and I feel the new system remedies that.

There was no customization involved in D2's attributes. You only raised them to meet requirements and maybe to max block, and put the rest into VIT. If you raised them above reqs you had wasted them, if you didn't have enough points for the endgame gear you were screwed. It was this arbitrary and contrived skillcheck that you only passed if you had planned out your build (give or take having bought your gear) beforehand.

Same with the skillpoints. The first time you played you'd kinda go "oh fireball, that's kinda useful I guess, I'll put another couple points into that", "this flamethrower skill is pretty fun but pretty useless, I'll try putting another 5 points into it - nah my firewall is still better". Then you eventually reach a point where you have so many wasted skillpoints that you'd either reroll (or respec nowadays) or stop playing because your character felt broken.
The "correct" way of building your char in D2 involves being totally gimped while you save up and play without spending points until you reach the tier that has the skill you want, then dumping everything into it until it's 20 and suddenly stomping face for the rest of the game.

I think the guild wars system makes sense in that regard. Free to slot whichever skills you want and goof around, but with the added ability to invest in individual ones by enhancing them.

[icedmetal57]

Activision is killing Blizzard, the company I loved back in the day because of Warcraft 1 - 3. I liked Starcraft but didn't play it as much, I'm not into competitive play and that's how that game felt, even against the CPU, same with Starcraft 2 to a degree. As for the Diablo series, I was never really a fan of it, I never played it back when it came out so trying to get into it now is difficult when there are games with better systems like how Titan Quest is, so I don't care about it that much. When I found out about Diablo 3, I figured I'd give it a try, but after hearing about how it's more of an MMO now than the previous versions, I don't know anymore. I'll still probably give it a try when it's cheaper or something, maybe I'll buy it at full price when it comes out if I happen to have some money to spend and have nothing to spend it on, but it's no longer on the list of games I want to get right away even though it hardly was.

[shawnmck]

For me, the problem with all this isn't in the fact that they are going to offer a means for some players the option to purchase items that the player may not want to waste the time in farming....
To me, the problem is that they (Blizzard) will most likely make finding complete item sets, or that rare weapon extremely hard to obtain. So difficult that one will most likely have to pony up the dough in order to complete their set.

I don't want to play a game where my reward for finding rare loot drops have gotten much harder to find as a result of my own personal perseverance, but has instead made multiple playthroughs almost pointless because you're playing for a lesser reward.

If Blizzard can make it so that in D3 all of these rare & set items are still very much findable, then I don't have a problem with it.
I'm just worried that Blizzard/ Activision is going to purposefully make certain armor & weapon pieces almost impossible to find (or extremely difficult) for those of us who want to be rewarded ourselves in our devotion, just so they can set up a shop of sorts so they can make more money through micro-transactions.

If they do it right then I can see how it can be a useful service.
Sadly, I just think its is being done for the sake of making more money, and as a result, rare & set pieces will have an even rarer drop occurrence rate.
That just sucks. The drop rate in Diablo 2 was already horrendous, imho. Now it's going to be even worse.

Maybe hackers will make a mod that you can down-load, making rare item drops easier to find, negating the need for such a service..?

BTW
I don't play these types of games so that I can find super-ultra rare items that I can sell....no, I play them because I want to find them & use them for my character that I created. But I've known some people who get some type of sick pleasure in doing similar things in WoW (or at least they used to).

But like I said, I could just be over-reacting. It just depends on how the item drop rate works. But going by how D2 was, I am not confident it will be any good.
The drop rate in TQ was great.

[Renevent]

"To me, the problem is that they (Blizzard) will most likely make finding complete item sets, or that rare weapon extremely hard to obtain."

Isn't that already the case with Diablo 2? Forget about sets, the top runes were almost impossible to find.

[yerkyerk]

"To me, the problem is that they (Blizzard) will most likely make finding complete item sets, or that rare weapon extremely hard to obtain."

Isn't that already the case with Diablo 2? Forget about sets, the top runes were almost impossible to find.

Everything in D2 was within reason, imho, except the high runes. I do think it's a fair concern though.
I do love the sound of the GAH though :)

[Renevent]

I played D2 for probably a good 150 hours and honestly I think completed exactly one set (talking the higher level sets). Obviously in a game based on random drops our experiences will vary, but my impression is if you wanted to complete sets or find the really rare uniques/runes, trading was the only way to do so. Or hundreds upon hundreds of boss runs...which to me speaks of certain items being "hard to obtain".

Thought TQ was the as well lol...I tend to find the same stuff over and over heh.

[Roros]

I wouldn't know my hours, but I completed hell difficulty at least 5 times with different classes, and never once got a high end set.

Between me and my 2 friends we would sometimes get partial lowbie sets (izenhart's case, arctic fur, which I believe are level 5-10 or something), but never more than the occasional single piece for anything decent.

[Renevent]

I actually lied...I have no idea exactly how long I played D2 over the years as this was before Steam was nice enough to tell me how long I play games :p

Pretty sure it's something like ~100 hours or so...but who knows for sure. I've played at least 6 characters through to hell though and tons of farming as well.

[yerkyerk]

Pfft.. 150 hours. Bunch of noobs :D

[Renevent]

In Diablo 2 terms, yes, I probably would be considered a noob compared to the hardcore crowd lol. I rarely play games for over a hundred hours though...TQ (and a handful of MMO's) are probably the only other games I have invested that much time into.

[Keyrock]

Wow I'm a super n00b then, I probably only put about 60 -70 hours or so into Diablo 2. On the other hand I probably put about 400 hours into Neverwinter Nights and probably about 200 hours each into Morrowind and Oblivion.

Edit: Oh and probably about 250 hours playing X3: Reunion. Love me some space sims, sadly it's a nearly dead genre.

[Roland]

I think they're stresstesting their userbase currently -.-

It's painfully obvious that they're trynig to cover up the thing by saying they're doing it all for the players sake, because if they did, they wouldn't take a cut. Ofcourse they're twisting it as such. But every greedy corporation does the same, so really, they're just no different from the rest.

One thing I'm more concerned about, psychologically, is that people won't enjoy the game anymore once they start earning money with it. They will see it as a job, rather than playing. And that's not me theorycrafting, it's actually a well known psychological theory that if you suddenly get rewarded for doing something you enjoy, you'll enjoy it a lot less, if the reward is removed.

Oh well, I just need to stay away from the MAH and hope the GAH and in-game currency won't bomb because of this.

very good point Yerk :)

Will certainly be interesting to see how this little Blizzard experiment plays out heh

[Skellt]

"To me, the problem is that they (Blizzard) will most likely make finding complete item sets, or that rare weapon extremely hard to obtain."

Isn't that already the case with Diablo 2? Forget about sets, the top runes were almost impossible to find.

Amen, in all the ubers runs hell runs baal runs i did i found 1 stone of jordan legit god that was lucky and two zod... And i played d2 pretry much more than any other games

[Skellt]

Wow I'm a super n00b then, I probably only put about 60 -70 hours or so into Diablo 2. On the other hand I probably put about 400 hours into Neverwinter Nights and probably about 200 hours each into Morrowind and Oblivion.

Edit: Oh and probably about 250 hours playing X3: Reunion. Love me some space sims, sadly it's a nearly dead genre.

God.. You dont wana know my oblivion played time nor my morrowind... Dunno bout diablo but more than 300h for sure

[OneEyeRed]

Oh I probably easily have 1000+ hours each on both Diablo and D2. We played them so much that I cannot even boot them up anymore I am so sick of them. In reality that's probably a very low number and I am sure many of you have even just as much or more. Break it down and it's easier to think about it (Hijacked from the net of course because I am lazy):

Multiply how many days in the month (30 or 31) by 24 (hours in a day). For example, 31 x 24 = 744 hours (1 month). 1000 - 744 = 256 hours. 256 / 24 = 10.6 days. Therefore, 1000 hours is equal to one month and 10.6 days.

One month, 10.6 days of gaming adds up quick if your going 6+ hours a day even. It's probably embarrassing for all of us to figure out how many hours in reality and that's not figuring MMO's even....

[ZorusX]

My Diablo 2 hours is frightening. I think I've got like 5000+ hours as a hazard guess. I played it for like 3 years. I've probably killed hell mephisto like 5000 times and Hell Baal another 5000 and done like 5000 cow runs. So many hours... wasted? As for rarity, I've seen a lot of stuff drop. I know I've found all the pieces of Talrasha's set and I think the majority of the pieces in the other sets, I've just never really assembles them.

The highest rune I've personally had drop for me was Ohm (from the chest behind mephisto)

Along with many Ums, Mals, and Ists. (mostly from countess)

Given that I played so much I'd really expect to have seen most drops in the game, but the reality is I haven't. Most of the highest Elite Uniques are so hard to find.

In my mind this is not the sort of drop rates I'd like to see in Grim Dawn. At least TQ was better, where you could reasonably expect to do 100 runs of Hades or Hydra or whatever and come out with so pretty decent gear. (even if it isn't exactly what you are looking for.)

One thing I really like about diablo was hunting for potent rare or crafted items with potentially the best bonuses you can get.

I know I had almost a year logged into WoW :/ More time ...wasted?

[Skellt]

I loved drop rates in diablo, personally, ive completed the .. I forgot what its called i only have immortal king in mind but i made my nec set, though i traded the headgear because i never found it

Imo the biggest concern was ppl trying to snag the items asap

That seems to be fixed in d3

[The Old Farmer]

All I have to add to this great debate is I am sure glad I bought into GD as I will take this game over what D3 has become.

[mamba]

Well to each their own and my feelings, opinion are validated for me as yours are for you. I just have no desire for DAIBWOW anymore plain and simple. That's coming from a very hardcore Diablo fan no less. They ruined this game on so many levels for me personally. However, I hope you get what you want out of it and wish you the best :)

Pretty much my thoughts exactly, over the last year I went from being excited about getting D3 (couldn't wait) to a point there I decided to not ever get it.

Todays news got me there, until now they only managed to make me cringe with every bit I learned about it.

Oh well, here is to GD and TL2.

[Scryer]

If you are a fan of Diablo, you should have a little more faith in their design.

[Overlord]

The WoW similarities just put me off. Who the fuck had that great idea..."Uh, let's copy WoW, they'll love it" :mad:

[Scryer]

The game-play is entirely different from WoW.

[Overlord]

The game-play is entirely different from WoW.

Thank God for that. I meant that whenever I see footage from D3 it immediately reminds me of WoW. This might only be me though

[Skellt]

I totally agree with you scryer

[Scryer]

Thanks Skellt, I know why some people are cautious about the changes to D3, but I just can't find anything to complain about.

[Skellt]

The biggest thing is.. That not a single one of us has played the game and yet we complain, im sure they sat sown and thought through every decision and changes, rather it be graphics gameplay and even money making

And not a single one of us knows for a fact the experience that will come out of it. We all know blizz makes games wether you like it or not that are pretry much the biggest games out there and prolly games that you and i will play for the ages to come

I still play d2, i still play starcraft 1 and 2.. I still play wc3 weekly.. Shit i even played the wc2 campaign because i likes the human elves and the orc dark magicians... Can you say as much about other companies? A few stand out sure, but in majority there arent many.

I have faith in blizz and until i have played beta, closed or open, i shall not make assumptions nor toss out the game.. Blizz gave me ages and ages of enjoyment, the least i can do is at least try the beta and IF then i dont like it, i know ill have made a decision i wont regret

[Overlord]

The biggest thing is.. That not a single one of us has played the game and yet we complain, im sure they sat sown and thought through every decision and changes, rather it be graphics gameplay and even money making

And not a single one of us knows for a fact the experience that will come out of it. We all know blizz makes games wether you like it or not that are pretry much the biggest games out there and prolly games that you and i will play for the ages to come

I still play d2, i still play starcraft 1 and 2.. I still play wc3 weekly.. Shit i even played the wc2 campaign because i likes the human elves and the orc dark magicians... Can you say as much about other companies? A few stand out sure, but in majority there arent many.

I have faith in blizz and until i have played beta, closed or open, i shall not make assumptions nor toss out the game.. Blizz gave me ages and ages of enjoyment, the least i can do is at least try the beta and IF then i dont like it, i know ill have made a decision i wont regret


A valid point. Although I don't have Blizzard close to my heart, I have to agree with you to some degree

[jamesL]

moved to
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2301&p=36904

seems a better fit in that thread

[hooby]

If you are a fan of Diablo, you should have a little more faith in their design.

Yes, anyone who is a fan of Diablo should have a little more faith in the very people who invented and made the game!

Wait...

Not a single one of those is working at Blizzard anymore.

[Renevent]

I think the developers at Blizzard have shown they can still make games without the folks from Blizzard North. It's not like they have nothing but a bunch of interns working there now.

[Scryer]

Blizzard has always had some pretty smart designers, hell, they even have people with a PH.D in Economics and a PH.D in Mathematics - that's some serious theory crafting.

[Harlequin]

Just saw the new gameplay-video for Diablo3. I watched it without sound so I do realize that a lot of the atmosphere was missing but...it was boooooooring.

The Witchdoctor was kinda fun-looking and the visual effects of the Sorceress were nice but aside from that the ares felt empty and bland. Seeing as Blizzard considers Diablo3 almost done in most areas (feature-ready was the word I think?) that was really disappointing because I doubt that they will start to fill the worlds with details seeing as it consumes huge amounts of time if done properly. :(

http://www.gamona.de/gamonatv/diablo-3,diablo-3-gameplay-video-fansiteevent-mp4:video,1967746.html

[hooby]

Blizzard has always had some pretty smart designers, hell, they even have people with a PH.D in Economics and a PH.D in Mathematics - that's some serious theory crafting.

Diablo 1 has been invented by a young student, in his bedroom, wearing pajamas, who was obsessed with MUDs, and had a Vision of a game that he wanted to play.

Diablo 3 is done by doctors of economics - experts on making money.

In how far is that supposed to strengthen my faith in D3 being a worthy successor of the Diablo heritage?

[Overlord]

Diablo 1 has been invented by a young student, in his bedroom, wearing pajamas, who was obsessed with MUDs, and had a Vision of a game that he wanted to play.

Diablo 3 is done by doctors of economics - experts on making money.

In how far is that supposed to strengthen my faith in D3 being a worthy successor of the Diablo heritage?

Let's face it, everything is about making money nowadays. Soon enough they'll charge you for the air you breathe, oh wait i think we already have taxes on that too >.>. Sadly this is our world: more money - less fun; people are so obsessed with making money that they forget to enjoy life.

Bottom line is this, gaming has died from a fun point of view. there are like 3-4 games that really make me have a good time, the rest are pure money suckers with 0 fun value. but people are so brainwashed that they buy it anyway.

Welcome to the 21st century, ain't it grand? :rolleyes:

[Keyrock]

Just saw the new gameplay-video for Diablo3. I watched it without sound so I do realize that a lot of the atmosphere was missing but...it was boooooooring.

The Witchdoctor was kinda fun-looking and the visual effects of the Sorceress were nice but aside from that the ares felt empty and bland. Seeing as Blizzard considers Diablo3 almost done in most areas (feature-ready was the word I think?) that was really disappointing because I doubt that they will start to fill the worlds with details seeing as it consumes huge amounts of time if done properly. :(

http://www.gamona.de/gamonatv/diablo-3,diablo-3-gameplay-video-fansiteevent-mp4:video,1967746.html
You weren't missing out on much without the sound. There was no music and no ambient sounds, the sound effects sounded decent enough though.

[Scryer]

No one's going to make me buy from the RMAH... if fact I'll probably make a profit without spending a dime into the system.

[Keyrock]

I do have to agree with Harlequin that the video looks bland. The characters and creatures look decent enough and the combat looks okay, but the backgrounds/terrain just looks bad. Particularly the outside areas, the dungeon areas look decent, if unspectacular.

[matthewfarmery]

Im not impressed, not one bit, looks a bit boring to me, if that was on normal mode maybe? then there doesn't seem to be that many enemies on the screen at one time, which pretty much is limited in combat, I feel people will probably level too far on normal, then all that is left to do is to grind for weapons and amour and thats it, sorry serious;y not impressed by the way the game looks, classes I'm not really sure about either

if that is the final game, / combat then its just another reason for me not to buy it, and its rabidly shinking to a point I will never pick it up, and its looking that will be the case afterall, so yeah not impressed in the least

[Roros]

Which video are we talking about? The only one I've seen is the one where they showcase the skills, were there any others?
Edit: I am blind.

[LostSoul]

Between this and the kinds of things that goes on with WoW, Blizzard products are taking on a very very sour taste to me. It's not enough to sell the product now...no they need to "monetize" every little last detail they can continue to 'sell' too.

And why? Was Blizzard some how NOT profitable before they started nickle and diming their customers at every turn? To appease the almight Shareholders of course. Who don't give a **** about the product or the customers.

Sounds like *** backwards priorities to me.

[Harlequin]

I think I know what I didnt like about the video.
In Diablo 2 space was always quite limited. Especially dungeons were quite narrow which was partly due to the low resolution but still. It was a lot more opressive. Just think of the asylum ( I hope I used the right translation) in Act2. Nowhere to run. only back or forth.
In the video even the dungeons are wide and thus feel quite empty compared to the older one. Not to mention that there were basically no details whatsoever. No grass, rocks, bushes, trees, etc. Just empty ground.

[matthewfarmery]

I wonder if they have reduced the detail, resources to path the way for a console version? and they got a sticky over on Bnet about they are looking into that, so is that why the combat looks dull as well? so that joypad users won't complain about fighting too many monsters?

wouldn't surprise me in the least,

it just makes me utterly sick

[Keyrock]

I think I know what I didnt like about the video.
In Diablo 2 space was always quite limited. Especially dungeons were quite narrow which was partly due to the low resolution but still. It was a lot more opressive. Just think of the asylum ( I hope I used the right translation) in Act2. Nowhere to run. only back or forth.
In the video even the dungeons are wide and thus feel quite empty compared to the older one. Not to mention that there were basically no details whatsoever. No grass, rocks, bushes, trees, etc. Just empty ground.
Yeah the game does look empty, but what really strikes me is the lack of detail in the landscape, and this is particularly noticeable in the outdoor areas. The ground just looks like a bland smear, like somebody just went to town with the smudge effect in Photoshop. It's like they're working with PS1 era level textures to make the terrain. Compare that with the combat video of Grim Dawn, which has intricately detailed cobblestones, rocks, grass, trees, bushes, walls, furniture, barrels, I could go on and on, and it's night and day. Now granted, maybe the outdoor scenes in D3 are supposed to be from a wasteland or something, so there wouldn't be as much vegetation, but they could still add some skeletal remains, outcroppings, individual rocks, withered plants... Just some detail. I know graphics aren't everything, and if the game plays great then I can turn a blind eye, but I frankly expected a lot more out of a big time studio like Blizzard.

I'm really hoping that they just happened to select particularly bland areas for that video and there are far more stunning and detailed areas in the game.

[medierra]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBrESZJlNvQ&

Uhh wow... this is rather shocking if this is all true in regard to the auction house charges.

I don't necessarily follow him on the PvP thouh. I don't think PvP needs to be perfectly fair to be fun. I've long enjoyed overcoming the odds and defeating less skilled players with superior level and gear in games like Ultima Online. I think the gear / level advantage just needs to be balanced so that it isn't overwhelming and can potentially be overcome by a more skilled player. The idea that people can just buy the best gear on the auction house is a little disheartening though. At least in Ultima Online people had to put in the time.

EDIT - Wow, zomg, he actually mentions Grim Dawn at 15:10m. :p

[matthewfarmery]

blizzard have said D3 is mainly a SP game, that the classes in D3 aren't going to be that well balanced for PVP, and there might not be any ladders or anything like that, so its an SP game mainly, but that guy does make a lot of good points, some of that I knew already, but didn't realise that blizzard will take a cut from three parts of the AH, that really sickens me greatly, I didn't realise that. money grabbing company that only cares about printing money

and yes he brings up a good point about the Chinese farmers, they will flood the US servers big time, makes me sick

edit

yeah he did, I clapped my hands when I heard he mentioned Grim Dawn, way to go, at least GD fame is spreading

[Keyrock]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBrESZJlNvQ&

Uhh wow... this is rather shocking if this is all true in regard to the auction house charges.

I don't necessarily follow him on the PvP thouh. I don't think PvP needs to be perfectly fair to be fun. I've long enjoyed overcoming the odds and defeating less skilled players with superior level and gear in games like Ultima Online. I think the gear / level advantage just needs to be balanced so that it isn't overwhelming and can potentially be overcome by a more skilled player. The idea that people can just buy the best gear on the auction house is a little disheartening though. At least in Ultima Online people had to put in the time.

EDIT - Wow, zomg, he actually mentions Grim Dawn at 15:10m. :p
Awesome! I just got to that part myself and a big ol' smile came across my face. I'll do my best to spread the word too. The grassroots advertising train is a rollin'.

[LostSoul]

For added fun, they are taking the "we control your computer and this game at all times" approach to DRM. Always on internet connection or no D3 for you.

*waves good-bye to D3*

[OneEyeRed]

Man this has really been depressing for me honestly. This was the biggest game I was waiting for and the more I read and watch the more depressing it becomes. Sad, really sad and I know I haven't played it yet but all things lead to me fleeing from it for my life. the D2 changes for instance graphically took some adjustment. I still think Diablo was the best hands down. It was dark, it was creepy, and it was so much fun.

GD art style reminds me a lot of Diablo albeit a much nicer engine, etc. I mean more so the atmosphere. D3 seems just blahh, bland, and no atmosphere from all I have seen over the last 2 years and it just gets worse with new stuff releasing.

The other thing that bugs the crap out of me is the red hue glow on every mob you target. Seriously? Immersion killer to the umpteenth for me. Everything about what they have done has just been depressing to me. No need for alts, no need to to replay for loot. Hell, I want the best weapon on the RMAH I just buy it with real cash. No Investment in the game at all as far as play time is concerned. Why even call it a ARPG at this point because they removed everything conceptually regarding an ARPG. As I said the RMAH just sealed it for me but I would be lying if I said I wasn't seriously bummed out about the whole debacle.

I am afraid the greatest franchise on the planet is dead for me but they will sell millions to farmers and casual players and that's exactly the goal. You really can't blame them can you as a corporate entity?
We don't go around bashing dairy companies for the price of milk; car manufacturers for the cost of vehicles, etc.... But we can vote with our hard earned dollars and that's the difference.

[Shinrou]

To me, the biggest gripe I now have with the game is the fact there is no point at all to create same character again once you've played it before... I'm kind of a alt-a-holic, trying out different kind of builds, but now Blizzard has gone and destroyed it all with auto-stats and auto-skills... I'm seriously pissed off about this change. So yeah, one character per class and you've seen it all. On top of that, once you hit level 30, your only goal is to grind gear, the levels itself feel totally meaningless.

It's like they are trying to get rid of "RPG" part of "ARPG". But I've seen many comments how they like the system, and I know in a sense it can be good system, but they are SERIOUSLY crippling the replay value of the game this way.

After hearing all the stuff yesterday, I'm instantly a lot less interested in that game after all. They built up the hype, and then drastically changed the very core mechanics without a warning. Well, at least there's still GD, which should be in caring hands, instead of greedy ones.

[matthewfarmery]

To me, the biggest gripe I now have with the game is the fact there is no point at all to create same character again once you've played it before... I'm kind of a alt-a-holic, trying out different kind of builds, but now Blizzard has gone and destroyed it all with auto-stats and auto-skills... I'm seriously pissed off about this change. So yeah, one character per class and you've seen it all. On top of that, once you hit level 30, your only goal is to grind gear, the levels itself feel totally meaningless.

It's like they are trying to get rid of "RPG" part of "ARPG". But I've seen many comments how they like the system, and I know in a sense it can be good system, but they are SERIOUSLY crippling the replay value of the game this way.

After hearing all the stuff yesterday, I'm instantly a lot less interested in that game after all. They built up the hype, and then drastically changed the very core mechanics without a warning. Well, at least there's still GD, which should be in caring hands, instead of greedy ones.

I agree, there is no replay value, I wonder how many will really bother to play past 30 anyway? apart from the farmers? there is nothing to really look forward too, and there is hardly any point in farming, when you can buy the stuff, so even that is a bit pointless, they may as well get the game to play for you, and you buy the game to watch it, to me that is what they have done, as there isn't really any point in playing it

[OneEyeRed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBrESZJlNvQ&

Uhh wow... this is rather shocking if this is all true in regard to the auction house charges.

I don't necessarily follow him on the PvP thouh. I don't think PvP needs to be perfectly fair to be fun. I've long enjoyed overcoming the odds and defeating less skilled players with superior level and gear in games like Ultima Online. I think the gear / level advantage just needs to be balanced so that it isn't overwhelming and can potentially be overcome by a more skilled player. The idea that people can just buy the best gear on the auction house is a little disheartening though. At least in Ultima Online people had to put in the time.

EDIT - Wow, zomg, he actually mentions Grim Dawn at 15:10m. :p

Nice GD Bump that was awesome!

[Skellt]

All im seeing in thia thread is you guys are making assumptions one after another!

Itll be a sp game! O really? Diablo never was d3 wont be either

There will be no end game content! O really you beat the game? Im amazed i was certain beta did not even start

Environement feel empty, yeah sure maybe in that small part of the huge world, have you seen the rest?

Classes are boring, yet again.. Have you played?

Grind for weapons and items one you beat normal! Name 1 arpg that is NOT that

.. You guys sound like its the end of the world and youll jump off of the bridge... Ill say my point again

Why dont you play the bloody beta when youll be able to.. THEN youll be able to make right assumptions on how its played...

Ill give you guys one example, two even
AoE Online, i was hyped about it, tryed the beta, tossed it away bc i did not like the gameplay.

HoMM6 i was hyped played the beta loved it but was unsure because of some
Mechanics and units strenght and now its fixed and guess what ill buy it!


Bottom line.. HOW can ANY of us make any statement on how boring the game is gonnq be when none of us has played it? Seriously.

Another thing, guess what people CRIED about D2 when it was first shown bc it wasnt like D1... For how long have you guys played D2? Some of you said 2000h... Are you certain D3 will be different? Then prove me wrong by tryi g the beta

[OneEyeRed]

Skellt you can't blame anyone for feeling the way they do. Blizzard released all this garbage on the community so just because everyone doesn't feel like you doesn't make them wrong or you right. It's all based on opinion plain and simple. However, it also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what the meat and potatoes of the game are by what has been released.

A good example is this: how about a movie trailer you saw and said it sucked and never watched it? But wait Skellt, how do you know it sucks if you never seen it? Getting my point? This is no different man.

[Skellt]

I do understand but you do understand my point as well, you are making alot of assumptions based on things you think will happen, why already toss out the idea of trying the game.

Movies though is a bad example for me i have free passes haha :D so unless i dont like the genre i pretty much watch everything thats in the theathers :p

Im pretty sure ill like D3, and the recent announcements for instance of the RMAH prolly never will affect my gameplay bc i dont give a damn about it, nor do i gibe a damn about tf2 hats, nor do
I give a damn about the fact that in LoL a player can buy what you grind to get, i dont see the diffrence btw the two...

I guess we'll play together scryer haha :p

[matthewfarmery]

there are reasons why D2 lasted so long, there is a difference, D3 will have no modding support, which is one of the reasons D2 lasted, but there are others,, the problem is, D3 will only have limited class choices, you may play the game for each class, but once you chosen the best config you will probably stick to it, same with the other classes, so I don't really see much replay value in D3, also I have read that the game will last 20 hours, I read that in a post over on Bnet, and seems that the game while not a bad length, but still, considering many pumped far more into D2, then 20 isn't that much, and lets not forget blizzard greed! which I think stinks, and there is no reason to take so many cuts from the RMAH, but judging from the recent vid, the combat does look limited and boring and that goes for the landscape. yes people are grumbling, but I say they have got good reasons too

[shawnmck]

I for one never said nor implied that D3 will suck, or even that I won't buy it.
If I remember correctly, only a few have. Clearly not a majority.
I have stated my concerns & disappointments, but that by itself does not mean that I won't be getting D3.

I personally like the art style, and just about everything else about D3 (except for the health orbs replacing potions).
My own complaint or concern is that the auction house like store will ultimately end up meaning that Blizzard will make an already rare drop rate even rarer.
But I have also stated that I could see this as a good thing if done right.
I rarely play MP and always play SP. So if I want to buy a specific item then that is fine, and I have no problem with others doing so.
I just worry that they are going to severely limit the drop rate so as to make more money.
But if they leave the drop rate alone, and make it better, then I will be a happy camper.

Regardless, I am still going to buy it. Already have it pre-ordered.

[Skellt]

Saying d2 lasted because of modding is irrevelant and not true, i like many others never modded it, and even today i still play it.

Saying that youll fins the optimal spec in d3 then stop playing is also strange because they SEEM to be much more flexible than d2

What did you do in d2? Want to know what my bonemancer used? Bonespear with the amp dmg curse, 5 pt in that, rest was synergies to boost spear, all char were like that, enev prior 1.13

To some extent TQ was the exact same thing but a bit more classes, but you ended boosting 1 or two skills anyway, course it had a great modding community but in the end its the same, find the optimal char for you, grind it items

[matthewfarmery]

I said modding is one reason why D2 lasted and there are plenty of good mods for it, I also said there are other reasons why D2 lasted

[shawnmck]

No offense to anyone, but in my own humble opinion, D2 lasted as long as it has because Blizzard takes the time to keep updating it....in addition to all the mods.
I have never known any game to have as many versions as Diablo 2.

[Shinrou]

Yeah well I agree a class build should have more skills than couple you spam all over and over. But there's no denying that by letting you make your own class from the ground up doesn't create it more identity than letting game decide everything for you. One of the greatest things about these kinds of games are the decision making and planning your character, and knowing that next time, you could take a different approach.

What Diablo 3 is creating now is more lifeless form of character development. I mean yeah, you can switch the "builds" you are using, but ultimately, you'll be sticking with the "optimal builds" in the end, ignoring many skills, just as in other similar games.

There is really no perfect solution, but I'm really all against losing the identity of my character I created, and the fact I have zero interest rolling another from the ground up with different approach, since there is no different approach at all...

I still have it pre-ordered long time ago, and I'm sure it will be good as a game, but reading all this stuff makes me think it will be good for short-term relationship this way.

[Roland]

I think the re-play value, at least for me will come from the various "Classes", they all play different enough that I can easily see having at least one character of each.

Then, even though it'll be quite easy to adjust/change out Runes...you will still have the "base" Skills that you have chosen. You can easily concentrate on a certain "type" of build over another....so then there's another reason to have a different toon for that type of gameplay.

I think that there will be more re/play time than perhaps some are imagining. Even with just a handful of characters the simple variations available between Skills and Rune choices are pretty huge ;)

And I agree that the latest video sure doesn't highlight the "look" of the game and it's environments. I'm hoping that, as it's been mentioned, that the visuals were turned down for some reason...

With all the new hubbub about D3, I downloaded my registered copies of D2 and re-installed, replaced my "Save" folder with my original that I've kept backup copies of for the last 10 years lol

I 99.9% only played SP as I hated the fact that you had to play every so often to keep your MP account active, and there were just too many times that I was gone doing other things or playing other games over the years. But I always kept my SP folder :)

Then I threw in a Resolution Mod (3 files you just drop into your Diablo dir.) and I'm up and playing @ 1920x1080 which looks pretty damn nice I have to say (though in all honesty a bit an the small side but it sure beats the hell out of 800x600 lol)

I'll post some screen shots and maybe a bit of video capture ;)

So I'm off to find my 1st SoJ lol

Regards

[Skellt]

gl with that soj haha i only ever found one legit off a monster of destruction the last wave of baal in all the years i played

[mamba]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBrESZJlNvQ&

Uhh wow... this is rather shocking if this is all true in regard to the auction house charges.

Actually all the other news was way worse for me, the auction house I can simply ignore ;)

But no attribute points, no skill points, always-on connection, graphics that would have looked dull if they had been around 3 years ago and combat videos that make me fall asleep watching them ? No thanks

EDIT - Wow, zomg, he actually mentions Grim Dawn at 15:10m. :p

Congratulations, I also saw GD mentioned in some feedback forums to those news, you are getting some awareness out there ;)

[Scryer]

Yeah Skellt, I'll give you my account name when the game comes out, it'll likely be Scryer - ### something.

Though I have taken a liking to Silver... I don't know, I have so many internet names at this point I think I need to just sit down and decide what I want it to be for Diablo 3.

Scryer isn't used very often so maybe that.

[Skellt]

haha i have quite a few, my 1st char is always Skellt, then Kaelsyd.. then moving on and on :P

[shawnmck]

Here is some new gameplay vids from gametrailers....
The first one talks about new features & design, the second one about combat & visulas.
The first one also mentions tidbits like shared stash & the auction house.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/new-features-diablo-iii/718442

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/combat-diablo-iii/718495

[ekopalm]

I will not buy the game...period. I will boycott the game for 1 or 2 years until it's like 20 dollars on steam...then I'm going to shoot my hard drive into space once I get it.

edit:

To be honest, I am going to completely boycott Blizzard at this point. I truly wasn't too impressed with SC2 to be honest...it was horribly unbalanced. The campaign wasn't impressive. And I only played WoW for 3 months and quit b/c I spent too much time on the game and wanted to get back to my original life. I have decided to boycott Blizzard if they have real money auction house.

[Roros]

I will boycott the game for 1 or 2 years until it's like 20 dollars on steam...

Considering blizzard and valve are competitors, I doubt it will ever be on steam. I've never seen a blizzard game there.

[shawnmck]

Given Blizzard's track record, it will take a lot longer then 2 years before D3 is $20.

[Scryer]

Hell, stores still sell the Diablo 2 Battlechest for $40.00...

[matthewfarmery]

not impressed by either link, the game, combat and landscape still looks bland, I really don't know what they are thinking of when the guy said, we are adding more colour to the game,, yes its more courful, but that doesn't make it a good looking game, compare it to the GD combat vid, GD looks way better

[hooby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBrESZJlNvQ&

Uhh wow... this is rather shocking if this is all true in regard to the auction house charges.

I don't necessarily follow him on the PvP thouh. I don't think PvP needs to be perfectly fair to be fun. I've long enjoyed overcoming the odds and defeating less skilled players with superior level and gear in games like Ultima Online. I think the gear / level advantage just needs to be balanced so that it isn't overwhelming and can potentially be overcome by a more skilled player. The idea that people can just buy the best gear on the auction house is a little disheartening though. At least in Ultima Online people had to put in the time.

EDIT - Wow, zomg, he actually mentions Grim Dawn at 15:10m. :p

I fully agree with the commentors stance on PvP. (He is talking about competitive PvP btw.)

While unfairness on parts of the game may be not an issue in "just for fun" PvP amongst friends who don't care much about winning of loosing, it still is detrimental to the expierence - and adds nothing positive at all.

So the effect that unfairness has on PvP can range from being "not so bad" in the best case, to "devastating" in the worst case. Nothing good could ever come from it.

[Scryer]

PvP isn't going to be balanced, but there will be a matchmaking system that will take gear quality into account.

[shawnmck]

The reason why I think this could be a good idea (if done right) is because it can be used by EVERYONE.
Some of you are focusing on one aspect of it, which is that any seller of any item will somehow be greedy, or that Blizzard is "greedy" for allowing or adding a system that allows gamers to get a little something else out of items that they (we) find and may not want. That's okay to look at it that way, as Blizzard could potentially build a system that is bad....but by the same token, don't overlook the prospect that every gamer that plays D3 can themselves gain extra in game gold or real money, if they (we) choose to participate.

Think about it...Lets say that you find a rare item that you have no intention of using. Either you already have one, or it is for a character that you have no intention of ever playing, or simply because you don't like it all that much.
Instead of going to a merchant that will give you an amount in gold (which can be obtained in a number of different ways), you (all of us) can potentially sell the item for an amount, which can then be used to buy something that we do want from someone else.
It ends up acting like a trade of sorts.

If done right, then this could be an excellent idea.
But we shouldn't automatically condemn it because we associate it with "greed".
It's basically Capitalism on a micro scale, which allows anyone to buy &/or sell anything they want. It is a revolving door that works both ways.
But I understand how Capitalism is bastardized & misaligned, when it just allows anyone & everyone the same opportunities. It just depends on what you decide to make of it.

That doesn't mean that Blizzard won't screw it all up by being Greedy A-holes and use it as a cheap attempt to make money.
All I am saying is that it has potential, and that we should wait & see how it ends up working before we bash it or even praise it. It is still an unknown factor as of now. All we know are some of its details, and not all.

But wouldn't you like to trade items?
If not, then you do not have to. It is just an option to use or not use.
I personally like to have options.

[shawnmck]

BTW
Places like Ebay already uses a method similar to this.
They allow you a means for users to communicate, buy, sell, & even negotiate....but takes a small percentage.
They are acting as a "middle-man" of sorts.

It is a system that works & can have benefits, but I also understand that it can be abused.
But I think we should at least give it a chance.
Cause in the end, you don't have to use the service if you don't want to. But by the same token you shouldn't deny those people who do want to use it the opportunity to do so.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no fee for purchases, only sales.
So, if you decide to buy another player's unwanted item, then it costs you (the buyer) nothing.
The seller pays a fee.
http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/3093728

[Llama8]

What Diablo 3 is creating now is more lifeless form of character development. I mean yeah, you can switch the "builds" you are using, but ultimately, you'll be sticking with the "optimal builds" in the end, ignoring many skills, just as in other similar games.

I'm not so sure about that. From the description (no skill points, can swap out skills you use pretty much whenever you want), it sounds like it's going down a similar route to Guild Wars. In GW you get the spells/etc & put them in your skill bar in town & then use them in an instance, but you can choose any of the skills that you have available to you (in D3 this will be dependant on level).

Edit: I'm not saying it will be to everyone's taste & IMO it does cut down on variety.

[Renevent]

I think Guild Wars proves the old mindset that allowing players to play around with their builds (without having to re-roll) kills variety is patently wrong. That doesn't mean it better, or that people are wrong for disliking it, but you can still have a varied skill system without locking people in.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Granted that doesn't mean Diablo 3's skill system will be as well designed, but I think we should at least see what it has to offer before saying it's dead on arrival lol.

I actually used to be someone who was very much against things like respecs...after playing GW though my opinion changed to the opposite mindset. The ability to try new things without having to re-roll characters and starting from scratch actually made me more inclined to try less optimal builds. Before I would always be too worried some skill wouldn't work out great, or somehow gimp my character and would play it very safe instead.

This more open system probably doesn't work for all games...I think I would still be opposed to something like this in a Neverwinter Nights game or more traditional RPG setting...but for a ARPG like Diablo III I see no issues.

[shawnmck]

I apologize if someone has already brought this up, but I missed it.

Apparently, Blizzard is going to force the player to have a constant Internet connection in order to play.
No Internet, No Diablo 3. Not even Off-line single-player.

http://gamerant.com/diablo-3-no-mods-constant-internet-connection-trung-98233/

Seriously, WTF ?

:furious:

I may not be getting D3 now, as I don't have a reliable Internet connection, and my living conditions (address) is pretty much in flux quite a bit. Am always moving due to economy (no job), rent being raised, or girl-friend troubles. Sometimes I even have to move back in with parents from time to time, which is not to my liking.

"Damn you Blizzard!"
:mad:

[shawnmck]

Please excuse me while I go & shout obscenities & cuss words at the top of my lungs.
F#@%!

[matthewfarmery]

yeah, its been confirmed, and has been brought up a few times, but yeah, its a bad move, and I don't agree to why they are doing it, just another reason for me not to get it

[shawnmck]

Requiring a constant internet connection for single-player is probably going to end up being a deal breaker for me.

[Anarchronique]

Diablo 3?

It's like when you're a fan of a music band, the next album can screw everything up.

The good part though is that there are other music bands! And by listening to the Crate Demo, we can all have hope that their first album Grim Dawn will kick some asses!

[MrFreckle]

Blizzard makes me want to punch stuff. No offline single player? Real money AH? No skill/stat points?

Thank you Grim Dawn for being everything Blizzard is not.

[shawnmck]

In all honesty, I was seriously looking forward to both, but for slightly different reasons.
Diablo 3 & Grim Dawn are like apples to oranges. Even though they are of the same genre (a fruit), they will taste quite different.

I haven't played Grim Dawn, but judging from the pics & videos (very limited) it seems to be very similar to Titan Quest, which is a good thing. It fills my hunger for action hack & slash, quenches my thirst to draw blood (figuratively speaking of course), and my greedy craving for collecting awesome loot.
But what it doesn't do is offer the same dark & manic depressive level designs that literally put the fear of dark places in me.

If it was just about isometric hack & slash, killing cool enemies & collecting loot, then GD would fulfill all my needs and I wouldn't have to look towards D3 for extra fulfillment.
But D3 simply appears to offer that extra bit of doom & gloom that Titan Quest never did.
And likewise, D2 couldn't even come close in matching TQ's rich scope of variety and cool enemy & boss designs that TQ had. Just as I'm sure D3 won't even come close to equaling Grim Dawn in many ways.

But the reality is that Diablo does offer that little thing that has yet to be imitated. Except for maybe Demon's Souls on the PS3 & Dark Souls for the home consoles. And that is that sense of dread & foreboding.

It's like having two cars. Both will get you to where you are going, and both are awesome rides, but each one just has that little extra something that the other lacks.
Titan Quest & Grim Dawn is like that super-charged exotic car that looks awesome & drives fast, whereas Diablo (D3) is like that 4x4 that you want to take off-roading to get all dirty & muddy.

That's not to say that one is better than the other, although like TQ (+) to D2 (-), I strongly suspect that Grim Dawn will be a much better game than D3. But that doesn't mean that I didn't or don't look forward to playing it.

Let me try to explain it another way. In D2 (& D3) you see the corpses everywhere. The disemboweled figures, the blood stains, the occult references and the like. This gives it a much bigger sense of dread. In TQ there really wasn't any of that. I can't say if it will be in Grim Dawn, but I haven't seen it in any of the video, which granted, are few and the game is a long ways off from completion. But I think you get the point.

This really should be in the RANT section, but I didn't want to start a new topic just for that.

[shawnmck]

I don't know if this is ethical, but would anyone with a Diablo 3 forum user login be able to log in & express my deepest disappointments & frustrations regarding the requirements of a constant internet connection to play single-player in D3....???

I've tried myself, but it won't let me. I have a B-Net account, but it isn't letting me post any new topics on the forums, and have never done so myself.
The Grim Dawn forum is the only one that I ever cared enough about to get involved with. I have no experience with others, and like I mentioned, I can't seem to get it to work with the D3 forums.

But basically I want to complain about it.
I've called the 1-800 number, but they just told me that I need to go to the forums to have my concerns heard by the company or developers.
Since I cannot do that, I am humbly asking someone here to do it in my stead.
Anyone?

[Llama8]

I've tried myself, but it won't let me. I have a B-Net account, but it isn't letting me post any new topics on the forums, and have never done so myself.

Can you not post a reply in an existing thread? Creating new threads that duplicate existing threads is generally not necessary (even in the cesspool that is the battlenet forums).

[shawnmck]

Can you not post a reply in an existing thread? Creating new threads that duplicate existing threads is generally not necessary (even in the cesspool that is the battlenet forums).

^ I tried, but cannot. I log in using my B-Net account, but it isn't leting me post. I might be doing something wrong, but I don't know what.
It allws me to log on to B-Net fine, but when I try to post a message it also asks for a cd key. I've tried using my Diablo 2 key as well as my StarCraft 2 cd key, but it keeps saying error.
I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong, but like I've mentioned...I'm not accustomed to getting on forums. Grim Dawn is the only game forum that I get on, and gamefaqs is the only game-related site I get on. I don't go to any other forums.

But thanks for the help.

[Cavar]

The entire login process for the Diablo 3 forums is as stupid as the constant internet connection to play the game.

It said to use your active Battle.net account and Diablo 2 CD Key, which I have, but it won't let me log in either. I can log in to Battle.net just fine and I got my Game Key from Battle.net, but maybe Game Key is different than the CD Key. /shrugs and goes back to waiting on Grim Dawn.

[matthewfarmery]

yeah I have the same problem, can't login either, and yes have a CD key for D2, tried googling it no real results

but backend access to my library of games are fine

[Scryer]

To log into the Diablo 3 battle.net forums you must first log into your Battle.net account and get your Diablo 2 game key, you post that in the proper space in the login area on the forums, you must then put in your Diablo 2 account name and password and make sure to select the correct realm.

[shawnmck]

To log into the Diablo 3 battle.net forums you must first log into your Battle.net account and get your Diablo 2 game key, you post that in the proper space in the login area on the forums, you must then put in your Diablo 2 account name and password and make sure to select the correct realm.

It's been like 10 years since I've played D2 on B-Net.
I can't even remember what password I might have used..?

[matthewfarmery]

it would have been deleted, you would have to create a new one, I can't find my disks for D2 and the download version from Bnet is pretty large, 1.5gig but I may download it again at some point or find where my missing disks are

but anyway, you will have to login to the game and create a new account, then use that to login the forums, even then I think I had issues, but I not used those forums for a long time, and can't remember if I ever did

[Cavar]

To log into the Diablo 3 battle.net forums you must first log into your Battle.net account and get your Diablo 2 game key, you post that in the proper space in the login area on the forums, you must then put in your Diablo 2 account name and password and make sure to select the correct realm.

It's been so long since I've played D2 that I dunno what my account name, password or region is. Their help button on the login form states the following:

Logging into the Battle.net Forums.

Log in with a Battle.net account in order to post on the forums.

If it requires something different to login to the D3 forums, then they should update the help.

I'll try to track down my D2 account info tonight and try again.

Thanks for the heads up.

[yerkyerk]

Bottom line is this, gaming has died from a fun point of view. there are like 3-4 games that really make me have a good time, the rest are pure money suckers with 0 fun value. but people are so brainwashed that they buy it anyway.
Just learn to stay away from the milking franchises and you'll discover tons of good games. Psychonauts, Plants vs Zombies, Amnesia, Mount&Blade, etc...

It's like they are trying to get rid of "RPG" part of "ARPG".
Haha, good one. RP stands for roleplaying. There's virtually no roleplaying in a Diablo game. All you do is farm for gear and set your attributes/skills.



Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no fee for purchases, only sales.
So, if you decide to buy another player's unwanted item, then it costs you (the buyer) nothing.
The seller pays a fee.
http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/3093728

From that vid that was linked previously, it appears that the seller already pays for putting up an item, even if it doesn't sell. I can understand that this works to keep spam items out (or make money from them). Eventually, it doesn't matter if the seller or the buyer pays, because the item will just be sold for more if Blizzard takes a cut.

It is a greedy system - and that alone can be condemned. If Blizzard just wanted to create a safe haven for trade, they wouldn't be taking a cut. There's a fair chance item webshops will still spawn, depending on how big a cut Blizzard asks.
Finally, because Blizzard implements this, they are legitimizing and condoning the trade of items - something they were vehemently opposed to previously. I'd call that hypocrite.

Am always moving due to [snip] girl-friend troubles.

Wait, wut?

In D2 (& D3) you see the corpses everywhere. The disemboweled figures, the blood stains
In D2, yes. In D3, not so much. At least not according to the material that was released.


That no-music video did look a bit boring. Good combat, good monster/player design, decent skills, decent atmosphere but the outdoor environments were just plain bland - there's no denying there. The indoor looked a bit better (still bland, much less so though). The amount of monsters is also disappointing. I just hope that the point of this video was to showcase every boring, empty, undetailed area of the game...

I dunno.. guess D3 is no day 1 purchase for me anymore. I'll await reviews and perhaps a small price drop (a big price drop won't happen, says Blizzards track record).

[mamba]

Haha, good one. RP stands for roleplaying. There's virtually no roleplaying in a Diablo game. All you do is farm for gear and set your attributes/skills.

Not in D3, there are no attribute points or skill points (but there are more skills than 'slots', so you select some and forego others for your build).

So I guess that leaves the farming for gear part ;) - or you just buy them in the auction house...

[shawnmck]

If anyone is interested, there is a petition going that is basically asking Blizzard to allow an off-line mode to Diablo 3 that will still need an occasional Internet, but not a constant connection.
I've already signed it, as it affects me.
If you are interested, here is the link:

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/diablo-3-offline-single-player-petition.html

[Opal Monkey]

If anyone is interested, there is a petition going that is basically asking Blizzard to allow an off-line mode to Diablo 3 that will still need an occasional Internet, but not a constant connection. <snip>

Signed. I can live with DRM, but not when it requires a constant internet connection to play single player.

[Scryer]

Have you heard of Path of Exile?

It's essentially an online only ARPG, however, there won't be any RMAH.

I have nothing against the RMAH as the only advantage it gives is the party that the player decides to join.

[shawnmck]

I personally have nothing against the Auction House portion of Diablo 3, because ultimately it's optional.
So you don't have to use it if you don't want to.

However, there is nothing optional about forcing the gamer to have a constant Internet connection in order to play single-player by one's self at home.

[Scryer]

I'll be your friend in Diablo 3 shawnmck.

Path of Exile is an Always Online game as well, I have no issues with it, but yeah if you know you won't have access to the internet then I wouldn't buy Diablo 3, but barring some world disaster, I plan playing Diablo 3.

[hooby]

Another interesting article:

http://whatgamesare.com/2011/08/keeping-players-at-bay-diablo-3.html

There are, broadly speaking, two ways to look at how to live and work in the online world. The first is to focus on community building, relationships and the building out a franchise by not worrying too much about ARPU (average revenue per user) and instead worrying about user engagement, virality and loyalty. Typically companies that have grown up online and made a success of it understand this organic approach better, because they grasp that the digital space is basically conversational.

Offline companies, those that made their bones in boxed product or broadcast entertainment, often behave differently. Their strategy is to try and pen players in. They want the players to play, and they want them to keep doing so, but they also want them to sit in a pen and only play with the content that they are given. And to pay for that privilege.

The reasons for this are many, but they usually start with concerns over ARPU. To the broadcaster’s mind activity like piracy and modding are a threat because they reduce ARPU in the immediate term. A pirated copy may be a sale lost, and that is essentially all that they can think of. There is no possible upside from allowing works to be distributed for free. (Which is, of course, completely wrong).

The other reason is that such companies are often managed by people who have a classical kind of business training (such as MBA grads) and tend to instinctively regard talk of community building as something more peripheral than the core of the business. It’s harder to express the intangible value of community on a balance sheet, and even harder to scale it, so the simpler and less imaginative solution is to think like a broadcaster.


It is common in the older parts of the games industry to believe that protection is needed against the hordes of players because without it your product will be devalued and destroyed. Players are zombies and need to be treated as such. That, the industry thinks, is just how life is.

Life is actually exactly the opposite. It comes down to this: You can embrace the nature of the online world – distributed, community oriented, conversational – or eventually be replaced by a competitor who does. It does not happen quickly nor cleanly, but all such dramas in the online space ultimately play out the same way.

Life is actually about a world where growth matters more than ARPU, where customer satisfaction is the only game in town and where even the perceived secret sauces of game design and technical chops are only short term advantages.

The second that you start to pen your players in and respond to their fury with blithe “Too bad” statements is the second that you start to lose.

[eisprinzessin]

I'm a zombie - now I finally know the truth about myself :p Thanx for sharing!

[nbringer]

I preordered it over a year ago but now I'm really thinking about canceling this order. Everything that made Diablo 2 good was erased and everything that kept me from playing WoW was included.

:cry: I feel your pain brother...

[An7hraX]

Just when I found out that I won't have to buy D3 someone points path of exile to me, bah!

[hooby]

Just when I found out that I won't have to buy D3 someone points path of exile to me, bah!

You won't have to buy that one either, since it will be free to download and free to play ;)
Let's just hope they stay true to their promises of an "optical and convienience items only" - microtransaction model

[An7hraX]

You won't have to buy that one either, since it will be free to download and free to play ;)
Let's just hope they stay true to their promises of an "optical and convienience items only" - microtransaction model

That is a little disappointing, the micro trans. model has yet to be perfected and (ab)used fairly, I will keep an open mind though.

[Skellt]

That makes 3 players shawn me and scryer! Maybe rev ? Haha gettin a group going!

[eisprinzessin]

There's at least one more who's interested ...
I will certainly be playing D3 as well.

[yerkyerk]

There's at least one more who's interested ...


That was before the bad news :)

[eisprinzessin]

Even if medierra is not interessed personally anymore he should still be interessed for business reasons ;)

[hooby]

Game designers have to play other games, just to stay informed.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2713-Playing-Like-a-Designer-Part-1

[Chameleon]

I personally have nothing against the Auction House portion of Diablo 3, because ultimately it's optional.
So you don't have to use it if you don't want to.

However, there is nothing optional about forcing the gamer to have a constant Internet connection in order to play single-player by one's self at home.

I agree.

I will not be buying D3 if I have to be constantly online, or even occasionally online. Blizzard has lost me as a customer.

[ZorusX]

I am looking forward to selling my items for real money.

[shawnmck]

I am just really frustrated with Blizzard for forcing a constant On-line connectivity requirement.
Not because I think it's wrong (cause it is), but because that requirement means that I will be unable to play Diablo 3.
It's not a matter of not wanting to, but a matter of not going to be able to.
My Internet is so bad that I lose connectivity multiple times a day, and if it rains then I often lost connectivity for days.
Even so, I don't want to be on the Internet all the time just to play by my lonesome.

BTW
It seems to me that the requirement for constant Internet in order to play Diablo 3 is a bit discriminative. Blizzard is singling out those that have good Internet, & those that do not, and not giving any option for those that don't.
I sincerely hope that Blizzard changes this, but I highly doubt it. Ever since WoW, Blizzard has seemed out of touch in my opinion.

[Kardiophylax]

Not surprised to see such a long thread regarding this topic. I've been too busy to post in ages, but knew people would be bringing their pitchforks out for this one.

I already had a bad feeling about D3, but it seems like they are doing everything they can to turn me off to the game. I don't like the idea of working to improve my gear while someone else just buys it. Also, forget about making any money off of it. There are far too many people across the world with far too much time to farm with. This will end up being an income source for some of them similar to WoW gold farming. I'm going to pass and stick with the other big two upcoming ARPGs.

[yerkyerk]

Pitchfork party!
http://madmikesamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/pitchfork-mob.jpg
There are far too many people across the world with far too much time to farm with. This will end up being an income source for some of them
Myeah, I'm betting there will be entire industries in China farming 24/7...
I've also argued that if you're going to sell stuff, you'll probably end up ruining any fun you'll have, essentially Blizzard will make you do slave labour, voluntarily.

[Overlord]

Not surprised to see such a long thread regarding this topic. I've been too busy to post in ages, but knew people would be bringing their pitchforks out for this one.

I already had a bad feeling about D3, but it seems like they are doing everything they can to turn me off to the game. I don't like the idea of working to improve my gear while someone else just buys it. Also, forget about making any money off of it. There are far too many people across the world with far too much time to farm with. This will end up being an income source for some of them similar to WoW gold farming. I'm going to pass and stick with the other big two upcoming ARPGs.

I couldn't care less about the RMAH.
I simply want to play the game alone, or with my brother via LAN..oh wait..you can't do that because of the internet connection thing, but there's more...there is no LAN.
Blizzard really fucked it up, although I'm sure the game will still be a success (some people simply can't help themselves)

[eisprinzessin]

There are far too many people across the world with far too much time to farm with. This will end up being an income source for some of them similar to WoW gold farming.
Looked at that way Blizzard helps to distribute wealth equally on Earth. :rolleyes:

[ZorusX]

Wow these forums should be called the Blizzard Hate bandwagon forums.

[Overlord]

Wow these forums should be called the Blizzard Hate bandwagon forums.

I wouldn't call it hate......ah fuck it, it's hate alright :furious:

[ocaij]

If another company wants to make idiotic decisions that parallel Blizzard's, I am sure we can add them to the hate list.

The online-single-player aspect has me seriously considering getting this game in a cracked-form. The lack of lan is stupid and the selling of items, well, that I really do not care about, but the inability to play single player offline, well...I hope that the hackers figure out a way to remove that and release a functional d3.

[shawnmck]

Still can't post on the Diablo 3 forums to complain about this.
I sign in with my B-Net account. No problems.
I even try adding a new game and entered my Diablo 2 games, with expansion...so they are added to my account. No problems.
But when I try to sign in using my account & password, it refuses to acknowledge my cd codes, and says there is an "error".
:furious:

This is the first time in my life that I hope that a game is hacked.
Maybe someone will come up with a mod that allows the user to play the single-player off-line.

BTW
I don't buy that BS about not offering a single-player off-line so as to make the game more secure....
It seems simple to me.
Have an option box with a warning that states that if you check this boss then you give-up any right or way to play on B-Net or take advantage of any of the other On-line services, either now or in the future.
That way, if someone does hack it, they simply won't be allowed onto the B-Net servers.
It could keep single-player Off-line and SP /MP On-line separate at all times.
No worries.

[Overlord]

The first time I heard they don't allow Offline play because they want to prevent cheating I loled.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to separate SP from MP. If they're so worried about you taking a cheated SP char in MP, simply do not allow for SP chars to go in MP.

I have a feeling they want D3 to fail, it makes no sense but everything leads to that conclusion.

[shawnmck]

In my opinion, it's all about control.
On-line only is much easier to control & monitor than off-line, so they want to force people out of off-line play.

I think WoW was an eye-opener for them. It showed them how they can control the wallets of gamers more by forcing an on-line component.

Don't anyone forget, we are NOT talking about an MMO, where a On-line connection is a must. We are talking about a game that is fully Single-player & Multi-player.
For all the people that claim, "Diablo is all about playing On-line with friends"....that is only one aspect of it. A single-player mode is still very much a big part of the game.
When Diablo becomes a full MMO, then that is the day I expect a constant On-line connection to be required, but definitely not when there is a robust single-player mode.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record, but this is extremely infuriating & frustrating.
There is a total of 5 games that I consider "Must Play".
Grim Dawn is one, and Diablo 3 was another.
Now Blizzard is telling me, "PISS-OFF" simply because I don't have reliable Internet.
I am literally being forced out of playing D3, and I consider that discrimination.

Furthermore, I feel like I am being drowned out by the vast majority of people who don't care about off-line sp because they never play single-player. (not on this board, but other).
I've visited the Diablo 3 boards, and even though there are a few topics complaining about this, there is a majority of topics basically saying, "tough, you are in the minority so stop whining & go play something else."

[shawnmck]

I know this is kinda like beating a dead horse, but I thought of an analogy that I think is perfect. (Please let me know if you disagree)

Blizzard owns Diablo 3, and so it is their intellectual property. Some would argue that this means that they can do whatever they want, even if that means alienating those people who don't have an Internet connection, or even a bad one.

My analogy is this...
This is no different than a movie studio releasing a movie on DVD with an encryption code that forces the viewer to be On-line while watching the movie.

The only difference here is that Blizzard will gain a lot more support because I dare say the majority of D3 players already plan on playing Multi-Player via Battle-net, so they could care less for the concerns of those who cannot.
Whereas the majority of people expect to be able to play their DVD's on the DVD-player or whatever.

But the exact same principle applies.
Any movie studio could make the exact same argument, which is that they are doing it to prevent piracy or whatever. But it would not be put up with by the vast majority.

[thedarkwolf333]

I wrote a LONG note about this issue on my FB page, "Gaming With Totebag." Here's an excerpt that pretty much explains how I feel.

As to my other qualms with the game, I believe I can cover all of that ground with a few statements. Progression in game mechanics is necessary as games move forward. Having said that, you can't change the game mechanics on which an entire franchise is based and completely ignore the droves of people irritated by this. The Irvine team has been almost entirely silent about the mentioned issues (when they are challenged by someone), and the community manager of Blizzard's official forums always seems to be MIA when forum members bash someone for bringing up these issues.

I hate to break it to the Irvine team, but this is their first Diablo game. They are entitled to nothing. I'm happy for them with all the success they have had with WOW, but it appears to have made them absurdly arrogant. You can't take over a business, change the founding principles of that business, and then act smug about it. They may not understand this, but infuriating a large portion of the people that ensured that Blizzard survived (and that they had jobs in the first place) can't just be brushed off. The problem is that they're going to be rich either way. WOW will continue to pour in revenue by the truck load, even if they brutally destroy the Diablo franchise, which is exactly what I think they're doing.

Bring back the Blizzard North team (yes, even Bill Roper), and let them develop Diablo 3. Not viable, probable, or even really possible, but I can always hope. I can also hope to see some development teams here and there that listen to the players, and remember that the players are the ones that make sure the developers get a paycheck every week.

[thedarkwolf333]

You won't have to buy that one either, since it will be free to download and free to play ;)
Let's just hope they stay true to their promises of an "optical and convienience items only" - microtransaction model

I am in the Path of Exile alpha, and let me just say that Grinding Gear Games is a good group of folks. They listen to the player base a lot, interact with the community, and have (so far) delivered on everything they've said. Companies get major points with me for being straightforward and up front.

[yerkyerk]

Well, we're the vocal minority :)

We are pissed off and rightly so, but I have doubts about us having a major impact. They monetize and kill off D3, perhaps, but it will be a success, unlike D4.

[ekopalm]

Not to use some useless statement or anything but....here we go. I think it's funny that I forget about the game until I see this thread kicked back up. After I laugh, I then read the latest post and thus I have concluded that D3 practically doesn't exist in my book. And with the age group of the individuals in lulzsec and anon, I am sure that they will probably attack blizzard with some legitimate statement but unfortunately hurt the individuals that bought the game.

[Scryer]

I know this is kinda like beating a dead horse, but I thought of an analogy that I think is perfect. (Please let me know if you disagree)

Blizzard owns Diablo 3, and so it is their intellectual property. Some would argue that this means that they can do whatever they want, even if that means alienating those people who don't have an Internet connection, or even a bad one.

My analogy is this...
This is no different than a movie studio releasing a movie on DVD with an encryption code that forces the viewer to be On-line while watching the movie.

The only difference here is that Blizzard will gain a lot more support because I dare say the majority of D3 players already plan on playing Multi-Player via Battle-net, so they could care less for the concerns of those who cannot.
Whereas the majority of people expect to be able to play their DVD's on the DVD-player or whatever.

But the exact same principle applies.
Any movie studio could make the exact same argument, which is that they are doing it to prevent piracy or whatever. But it would not be put up with by the vast majority.

You're wrong, Movie studios are quickly moving to these ends, as the rise in Netflix and Hulu have shown, most people are actively using movie 'online-only' DRM.

The fact is this is already being put up with by the majority. Mostly because movies still get sold in a DVD medium, however, I expect that to start to change as services like Netflix become more and more popular.

However, unlike a game movies don't have the extra obligation of upholding a server, and making that server secure. This is generally done by third party services.

Because Blizzard is the first party when it comes to making sure that the Battle.net servers are secure they have the responsibility to not only maintain those servers but also the integrity of their game. A film studio does not need to maintain the integrity of their movie because the movie has no interactions. I liken a movie to a portrait, while a game can be art it still requires rules and someone to monitor the playing field and make sure that everything is fair.

It's my opinion that a lot of people are simply overreacting to change. You may think it's bad but you really don't know until it's tested.

Which it looks like we'll see it tested sometime later this year.

[matthewfarmery]

but the problem is, Bnet2 isn't secure, people can hack and cheat in SC2, my friend plays that and can easy tell when people cheat in the game, as there is a moments puase right at the start of the game, do blizzard act? not really, such hacks and cheats seem to be growing, so again, the service isn't secure, and the authenticator isn't mandatory, which it should be, there are talks of it been included in D3 by fans, but will blizzard really do it? I doubt it, now that real money is involved, peoples accounts will be at risk, unless blizzard get their act together, more and more accounts will be hacked

this is something I think some people are forgetting, now that real money is involved, peoples account will be even more at risk, so unless blizzard makes authenticators mandatory, things will get ugly, so blizzard's Bnet is not secure

OK as in another thread, people can click on scam emails, but I still think a authenticator should be made mandatory for all accounts,

[Scryer]

Bnet2 is way more secure than Bnet1.

The fact is no server is 100% secure, but at the very least the newer server technology in Bnet2 will certainly be even more secure.

There's no such thing as being able to block all hacks / bots, but at the very least you can reduce them so that they aren't as noticeable.

[Malpheas]

So, what you're saying is, you're resigned to a calculable risk regarding personal information and finances on a game.

[yerkyerk]

I moved this thread to rants btw, seems much more appropriate there :)

[Malpheas]

Well, to clarify, I think I should make my post a little more diplomatic. I am cautious when I see a company trying to take advantage of an economy by hosting it's own real money shop; because it seems a little less like escapism and more like work.

I guess it was only a matter of time before this happened.

It's a shame, in my eyes, that they have taken the Diablo franchise in this direction.

[Llama8]

So, what you're saying is, you're resigned to a calculable risk regarding personal information and finances on a game.

We take a calculated risk whenever we shop online & that's assuming that our bank/CC company isn't hacked & our details stolen from that direction. Granted, it's not really a risk many people would associate with arpg gaming. It does raise an interesting question of whether we will be required to give those details (CC/bank account, etc) when we create an account or on our first use of the RMAH, one would be an avoidable risk, the other wouldn't.

[Llama8]

I am cautious when I see a company trying to take advantage of an economy by hosting it's own real money shop

True, but what if Blizzard's cut only amounts to standard transaction fees that all (financial) institutions charge? IE, the costs that Blizzard would have to bear in order to charge you for the item & so they wouldn't make any profit from it.

[Malpheas]

True, but what if Blizzard's cut only amounts to standard transaction fees that all (financial) institutions charge? IE, the costs that Blizzard would have to bear in order to charge you for the item & so they wouldn't make any profit from it.

Why does the auction house have to include real money transactions? If there were no necessity for it, I would consider the motivation.

That aside, I cynically assume that Blizzard wants to do more than take the cut that a financial institution does. (ASIDE:And speaking of that, it is just another fee that players who want to buy items have to pay in order to get what they "need" - but that is neither here nor there with facts in this conversation. /ASIDE)

Oh Oh, one other thing, I'm also leery of how this will affect the player base. This may promote players only looking to play for profit. In an extreme example, this diminishes the base who play for pleasure and increases the bases who participate solely for profit; and without reading the entire thread I would not be surprised if this were already mentioned.

[hooby]

It's a test.

WoW does monthly fees, does regular full-priced addons, and does virtual item sales.
Where other MMOs have to choose one payment option, WoW does all three of them simultaneously, and gets away with it.

Blizzard did a lot of thinking about how they could make even more money from their big MMO, and obviously someone came up with following idea: "Gold farmers make millions of dollars on our game. If we only could take like 5% of that, we'd make a lot of money - and in contrary to to our other options, we don't have to do anything for that. For selling an add-on we actually have to create content that's worth buying. For selling monthly subscription we have to actually expand the game with new stuff to keep players playing, and for selling virtual items we have to actually design appealing virtual items. For taking a share on gold sales we have to nothing. Nothing at all - no costs, only profit" - that was surely follow by enthusiastic applause.

Now they couldn't add this to WoW... they have already three simultaneous payment options in place, and adding a fourth way to grab cash would lead to backlash by the community. No, this was something that could not be retrofitted into a game.

So they added it to Titan - their new MMO. But they still feared backlash. Titan would be the first MMO to feature such a thing - and it's a new IP, it has no built in fanbase, that would still buy it, no matter what. Revealing a RMAH for Titan could lead to some nasty Discussions that really could hurt the game sales.
Now, all that would not be an issue if some other game did it before - if someone else came up with the idea and took the heat, and simply made it work. This would blunt the danger, people would start to accept the idea of a RMAH, and when Titan finally comes out, it wouldn't be a hot topic anymore!
So they added it to D3. Since it was very optional there, and hadn't much influence on the regular game - except for the PvP Arenas - people could still buy the game and stay clear of the RMAH. And besides - those D3 fans are so hyped about the game, they'd buy it anyways.
It's a good test for the system too. With the experience from D3 Blizzard can learn a lot, so they can perfect the system for Titan, and upgrade it to even more profit.

I love me some theory-crafting :)

[Malpheas]

Seems reasonable, test the idea on a proven IP with renewed interest.

[Thecla]

It's a test.

No, No! You're absolutely incorrect. Blizzard only did this because they were so concerned about the poor benighted D2 players who were getting ripped off by RMTs, and --- bowing to their legtimate demands --- Blizzard wanted to protect those players in D3. The RMT AH in D3 is a completely selfless act with no ulterior motive, and I'm truly offended that you're trying to insinuate otherwise.

[shawnmck]

Here is an interesting article featuring Max Shaefer, a developer from Runic Games (Torchlight 2), and was among the original members of the team behind DIablo 1 & 2..

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-04-runic-diablo-drm-vital-for-auction-house

[yerkyerk]

No, No! You're absolutely incorrect. Blizzard only did this because they were so concerned about the poor benighted D2 players who were getting ripped off by RMTs, and --- bowing to their legtimate demands --- Blizzard wanted to protect those players in D3. The RMT AH in D3 is a completely selfless act with no ulterior motive, and I'm truly offended that you're trying to insinuate otherwise.
Hear, hear!

EDIT: hm, I only just realized that D3 completely killed off modding. I just thought they'd be highly unsupportive of it, like in D2, but mods would still come regardless, but with the requirement to be always online and no doubt integrity checks to see if you're not cheating, mods are out of the question, aren't they?

[Opal Monkey]

EDIT: hm, I only just realized that D3 completely killed off modding. I just thought they'd be highly unsupportive of it, like in D2, but mods would still come regardless, but with the requirement to be always online and no doubt integrity checks to see if you're not cheating, mods are out of the question, aren't they?

That would make sense. But, I'm guessing that the requirement to always be online will be cracked by someone in the first few days. Once that happens I would guess there will be mods made that would just require having the online requirement disabled.

That does kind of cause more issues though. When a new patch comes out, would you then have to reinstall? Would owning a legitimate copy of the game with a "mod" to remove the online requirement be considered illegal? If that was the case, would all mod makers be considered to be encouraging that, and therefore be open for Blizzard to take legal actions against them?

In my eyes this kind of thing is an affront to us not so much as gamers, but as customers. Putting restrictions on a product that hurt a legitimate customers ability to use that product, because of what some people will (illegally) do is unjustifiable in my eyes. Whatever happened to "don't bite the hand that feeds you" *sigh* :undecided:

Hmm... looks like I got a little off point towards the end there. Good thing this was moved to the rants section :p

[Scryer]

So Blizzard has laid before us their terms of use –

- No mods.

- Online only.

- Optional RMAH or Gold AH.

If you disagree then do not purchase the game.

As far as I’m concerned, it’s their intellectual property, and they can do whatever they want with it. Yeah, you may be upset, so don’t buy it if that pill is too hard to swallow.

I’m sure, absolutely sure, that Blizzard will be happy with whatever your decision is.

[Renevent]

That would make sense. But, I'm guessing that the requirement to always be online will be cracked by someone in the first few days.

Depending how well the client/server part is done, it could be a lot longer than a few days. Ubisoft's DRM wasn't cracked (properly) for a month and that was just a single player game with an online check.

If D3 is more like Guild Wars or other online games where tons of logic runs only on the server it's going to take a lot longer than a few days.

[Malpheas]

So Blizzard has laid before us their terms of use –

- No mods.

- Online only.

- Optional RMAH or Gold AH.

If you disagree then do not purchase the game.

As far as I’m concerned, it’s their intellectual property, and they can do whatever they want with it. Yeah, you may be upset, so don’t buy it if that pill is too hard to swallow.

I’m sure, absolutely sure, that Blizzard will be happy with whatever your decision is.

Instead of all your pandering and excusing of Blizzard, you should have said this months ago and stopped your part in discussion.

[Skellt]

If you guys are argueing against d3 ...scryer, i and others, even if we do not have the same insight about the game as you do, also have the right to argue.

On the rmah

You guys DO realize that.. If blizz did NOT make an RMAH, there would have been one either way right? Like.. As soon as the game releases there would.. Actually there will be plenty of third party site doing the SAME exact thing and yet i dont see you guys complain about them.

On always online

Now here i see something worth argueing about, i understand it is a drastic measure but fortunatly it does not affect me as i have a really good internet.

Though i do not agree with the always online (it might end up being like sc2.. Authenticate , then do whatever) .. As stated above it does not impair my experience.

On stats and skills

Plain and simple we might rant but none of us played the game and none of us knows how it will REALLY work out in the end

[matthewfarmery]

the problem is the RMAH, not the gold one, if they had just added a gold one, then things would have been fine, and yes, the trade system in D2 was bad that third party sites did spring up, but even then they were against the TOS, but blizzard could not really do much about them

so if blizzard had kept to a gold AH, I wouldn't have had a problem with it, but its the ream money AH that many people have issues with, not sure on this forum but on Bnet too, so its not just a small number how are complaining

I don't see the need for a RMAH, especailly as blizzard will profit from this, and especailly as this did go against their TOS in D2, and as the RMAH only works, is for SC only, then third party sites will still profit, so blizzard haven't really solved the problem now

there are many reasons I still think the RMAH is a bad idea, and if this works, maybe this might be added in the codenamed Titan that blizzard are working on and others, which would be a even worse idea

I think the game needs a good trading system, check, but if they left it at gold, then no problem, but they haven't

and yes the constant internet connection is a real issue for some, not everyone has super fast broadband or good internet connections, so this is a bad move, and there is no sense in it, as been offline would have been fine, no access to the RMAH / gold AH, and save your chars locally, blizzard should give players a choice, not force this down their throats

[jamesL]

I plan on playing through D3 as fast as possible and getting some of the best items I can

then I'll try to sell my char at the RMAH and try to offset the cost of the game

[Skellt]

I do agree that they are handling the sp poorly wouls just need to start a new char on bnet that would be easy as hell...

But no they have not solved the thirs party AH but anyone who has played D2 shouls have seen this coming, even if it was prior against rules, people were making money off of items, why not blizz.
The thing is the issue will never be solves even if blizz partakes in RMAH, if they do it people will get items off of blizz more ofteh, if not ppl will go on third party sites and trade regardless.
So whatever the case may be, people WILL buy items off of the internet, iyems that might have yaken you days to farm. And that statement is true for 95% of the ARPG.. And with the attention Grim Daen has lately, they will as well

So tbh i really dont understand the complaints about the RMAH it WILL happen even if blizz does not put their hands in it

[hooby]

Up until now, Blizzard always took the stance that buying power with real money, is considered cheating - and everyone they caught cheating - either by using cheats, or by doing transactions forbidden by the EULA, they banned for good. And they tried to make their systems more secure and make cheating and selling gold/items harder.

Now suddenly you argue, that selling items is going to happen anyways - no matter how hard they try to suppress it. So since it is going to happen anyways, it is better to legalize it, and to make it save.

The same thing is true for cheating. No matter how hard Blizzard tries to make themselves secure and to stopp cheaters, there will always be some exploits or cheats that people can use - it's going to happen anyways.

Just like Blizzard could make selling items only harder and therefore less frequent, they can only make cheating harder and therefore less frequent, by protecting them as good as they can, and swing the ban hammer against anyone they catch.

Now going by the same argument, that it is going to happen anyways, and that people are surely going to find cheats and exploits... - shouldn't Blizzard just allow those too?

I mean downloading cheats and hacks from other, shady sites is rather dangerous, since they could be infected with a virus or spyware.

Wouldn't it be very caring of Blizzard to produce their hacks and cheats on their own? Maybe sell them for a few bucks - so that people can get those cheats and exploits in a save, not dangerous place?

I mean, nobody has to cheat, and nobody has to play together with a cheater... just like nobody has to buy powerful items, and nobody has to play together with people who bought a lot of stuff.

You can just go online, and play the game together with your friends that you trust, and ignore everyone else.

Just like you can go out of the way of power-buyers, you can also go out of the way of cheaters.

And what does cheating do? It only makes people more powerful. Just like buying items does.
If Blizzard made all their cheats themselves, they could guarantee, that they aren't completely over the top, but stay within certain limits.

So if you do allow buying power... why shouldn't you allow cheating too? Where's the difference?

[Skellt]

Cheating usually ivolves giving your characters pows that he did not have access to before, such as being invincible, one hit kill, speed, strenght.

Buying items that already exist while yes it does make you stronger, is something that any of us can get with luck dedication and farming.

Let me bring the topic to another game, very successful these days, LoL, you play it? Prolly just about everyone does but thats aside the point.
In LoL there are also micro transactions to give the player acces to. Ontent that can also be obtained with time. Yet that is no cheating, but gives one player, the buyer, an advantage early on... But later on it will harsly matter.

Same thing applies for D3 yeah buying an item early on gives you an edge.. But think back and look at D2 early on the 30 damage gain on lets say bone spear matters because it doubles its damage... But the sqme 30 damage on top of 3k damage is a mere 1% increase
And while i may not have that item that 1% wont five him enough of an edge

And that is if we are talking about pvp, while the game is mosly made around PvE, he'll kill diablo in 1 less hit than you will, does it really affect your gameplay?

Saying buying content that can be obtained in game is the same as cheating is simply an exagerated argument

Yes they changed their policies so what, we all know blizzard is a money whore always was and always will be... Ever went in a gamestop and saw how expensive sc1 is? 40$ for a what 11 year game? Name one other company that can even come close to do that... And thats not the new activ blizz, sc1 was still as expensive when blizz north was around

RMaH was bound to happen, will it REALLY impair your gameplay? I highly doubt it, but we cant tell till game is out or at least we rry beta

[hooby]

And that is if we are talking about pvp, while the game is mosly made around PvE, he'll kill diablo in 1 less hit than you will, does it really affect your gameplay?

RMaH was bound to happen, will it REALLY impair your gameplay? I highly doubt it, but we cant tell till game is out or at least we rry beta

And if someone is
being invincible, one hit kill, speed, strenght

How does that affect your gampley? I mean the guy who does it is probably able to kill diablo in less than 1 hit. So what?

What's the problem with that?

[shawnmck]

.......Just like you can go out of the way of power-buyers, you can also go out of the way of cheaters.

And what does cheating do? It only makes people more powerful. Just like buying items does.
If Blizzard made all their cheats themselves, they could guarantee, that they aren't completely over the top, but stay within certain limits.

So if you do allow buying power... why shouldn't you allow cheating too? Where's the difference?


^ Excellent point.

Another thing to mention...
Isn't Blizzard not allowing Off-Line single-player in order to prevent hacking basically acting like, or treating as if everyone cheats?
I personally find it offensive that I am being punished, as well as a very large group of people, just because a much smaller group opts to cheat.
It's like the old adage of "throwing the baby out with the bathe water."

[matthewfarmery]

blizzard won't be able to stop the cheating, so again that is really pointless forcing people online all the time because of that, so they should an offline mode and be done with it, is they accept that they can't deal with third party sites, then they should admit they can't deal with the cheaters too, and allow an offline mode

[yerkyerk]

Offline play was probably butchered so they could make more bucks out of RMAH. Beats me why they just don't separate online and offline characters like in D2, but whatever. Probably a bigger online audience now, meaning more cashcows. And in addition it's an anti-piracy measure. No matter how fast triple A games are hacked, devs and/or publishers of these titles still seem to think that anti-piracy measures are effective. And forcing people to play online has so far been the best way to combat piracy, afaik.

[eisprinzessin]

I think the RMAH will be an interesting social experiment. Regardless if it has a great impact on the game or not. Here's a good point:
In LoL there are also micro transactions to give the player acces to [co]ntent that can also be obtained with time. Yet that is no cheating, but gives one player, the buyer, an advantage early on... But later on it will harsly matter.

Same thing applies for D3 yeah buying an item early on gives you an edge.. But think back and look at D2 early on the 30 damage gain on lets say bone spear matters because it doubles its damage... But the sqme 30 damage on top of 3k damage is a mere 1% increase
And while i may not have that item that 1% wont five him enough of an edge

And that is if we are talking about pvp, while the game is mosly made around PvE, he'll kill diablo in 1 less hit than you will, does it really affect your gameplay?

[CombatCoati]

As I haven't played diablo or diablo II (though I started playing computer games now about 26 years ago... yeeks, hadn't been into that arpg stuff too much at those times diablo came out, more the unhurried rpg things without the action ;) ), I can't say that I'm upset or disappointed by the announcements of Blizzard. I can wait, will read the tests and forums feedback, and if it turns out to be fun, maybe (reallly maybe... see below) I'll buy it, and if not, well, I won't get mad.

On the rmah - I don't care as long as I don't have to use it.
The alway-online thing - well, don't mind either, as my internet connection is just fine and I don't own a laptop to play on the move, but I can understand people who don't like that thing.

But there's one point which kind of upsets me:
Blizzard tells us (as far as I take it from the news on different sites) that you have to be always online to secure not only, but espacially, that rmah, meaning they want to make sure nobody can take items from, let's call it 'outside the game', into the game and thus into the rmha.
And here's the scam, folks - if you have to be online to play and the system is secure there will be no way to bring in any items bought from another source and thus, their argument 'it will happen anyway, so let us do it by ourselves with the rmha' is nothing but a hoax. :rolleyes:

So, to me the only reason to bring in that rmha is the thought 'people are willing to spend money to buy items and we want a piece of the cake, so let's put it in the game under our control'. And don't get me wrong - I am not saying that this is a bad thing to do in itself - if people want to give you money for something you can possibly provide, would you reject it ? (leaving ethical or legal matters besides here... btw, any one interested in buying my TQ-Vault files ...? :p )

Thinking through that, I feel lied to by Blizzard. And I do definitely not like the feeling of being lied to by someone who wants me to give them money to buy their stuff. So I for myself at this point won't buy Diablo3, not because of the rmha, not because of the necessity to be always online, nor because it might be too casual or anything concerning the gameplay, but because I feel p!ssed of of by the policy of Blizzard to not tell their customers the truth.

Edit: btw, my sig has nothing to do with blizzard, though it might fit here as I re-read my post ;)
It's just a quote from the awesome tv series 'Firefly'

[Renevent]

blizzard won't be able to stop the cheating, so again that is really pointless forcing people online all the time because of that, so they should an offline mode and be done with it, is they accept that they can't deal with third party sites, then they should admit they can't deal with the cheaters too, and allow an offline mode

There's a big difference between stopping the cheating and securing the online the best you can.

Give you an example...

Titan Quest - Open servers and locally stored characters meant cheats of every kind. 9999999 damage daggers, instant levels, ect, ect. Basically open season.

Diablo 2 - Closed servers as well as locally stored characters for lan/sp...though this was very early for online like this...a TON better than Titan Quest though. While duping has popped up a few times (and been squashed) and other stuff like bots are around, it's nowhere near what kind of cheating TQ had.

Diablo 3 - Going full client/server with no local characters and probably a lot of logic that runs only on the server...basically if they do it right the game will be kinda like a MMO (think Guild Wars). While MMO's have exploits that pop up very rare do they have tons of cheats and when they are found they are squashed pretty quickly (if the game is supported well).

The point is let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater...while they can't stop every exploit they certainly can make it fairly secure and keep cheating/exploiting to a bare minimum.

[Scryer]

So if you do allow buying power... why shouldn't you allow cheating too? Where's the difference?

Well, first of all Diablo 3 is a co-op game, so buying power only makes the co-op game easier.

As for buying cheats, now you've essentially twisted the argument to mean anything you want it to mean - cheats and in-game power are two different things. Cheats go beyond the game rules and in-game power stays within the game rules. So your argument is flawed.

The difference is clear to me, and at this point you're simply grasping at straws.

[yerkyerk]

While duping has popped up a few times (and been squashed)
Lol, kidding me? In TQ, everyone and his grandmother could hack the game. In D2, it was limited to a bunch of nerds, but it still happened on grand scales. Wait long enough in a season and high runes would become as expensive as perfect gems. It's way less secure than people believe it to be.

Cheats go beyond the game rules and in-game power stays within the game rules. So your argument is flawed.
One of the in-game rules in D2 was that you had to obtain your loot in a fair way. Using 20/20 torches, 20/20 anni's and perfect equipment would be considered cheating in D2, nobody will believe you got that fair and square. Even if you traded for it, you probably got a dupe and it was still considered unfair. Buying virtual items for real money is also considered cheating in D2. Blizzard now approves of methods they were formerly condemning, so yea, it's no longer officially called cheating, but does the official tag really matter?

Sidenote: I'm not bothered too much by the RMAH, but I definitely don't agree with it.

[shawnmck]

Blizzard needs to just change the name of their game to, "World of Diablo", and be done with it.

Whether you like or dislike what Blizzard is doing, either in part or in full, you cannot argue the fact that the series is being systematically changed and is turning into something else.

I would not be surprised if Diablo 4 becomes fully MMO and Blizzard charges a monthly fee to play.

[Kluga]

While I'm certainly not a fan of what Blizzard have decided to do with D3 thus far, I can see where they are coming from.

While the persistent online connection for single player could prove to be kind of annoying, as mentioned by others it will most likely greatly reduce the amount of hackers etc. This also serves its purpose in multiplayer, where games will probably be kept very clean as any attempted cheats or hacks will be squashed.

As for the RMAH...
I don't think you can call it "cheating", it is the legitimization of what used to be considered cheating. It's probably for no other reason than Blizzard wanting another cash cow. I'm sure they could just as easily squash this mentality instead of promoting it. What really bugs me is that "back in the day" buying items for real money would have been frowned upon; now it just has a price tag. It encourages players to take major shortcuts in developing their character. As we all know, finding the perfect gear for your character is always difficult. Now it's just going to cost you a few dollars.

I don't see why people would want to skip what I consider to be such an important part of the game. In TQ, I don't even twink my characters. Putting on crazy good equipment as soon as you can always killed the enjoyment for me. It became way too easy. That being said, I'm not against twinking if people choose to do so. You've still "earnt" the item by getting the drop with another character.

Now you can literally buy power. I see it as a form of cheating or a shortcut which has been brought within the rules of the game. So its not "cheating" in the strictest sense of the word:

Cheat - v.intr.
1. To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game

That said, I'm far from condoning the purchase of powerful items with real money. It really works against the spirit of loot driven games. There's no challenge or impetus to strive for the best character if you can simply buy one.

[mamba]

If you guys are argueing against d3 ...scryer, i and others, even if we do not have the same insight about the game as you do, also have the right to argue.

obviously, it's a free world ;)

On the rmah

You guys DO realize that.. If blizz did NOT make an RMAH, there would have been one either way right? Like.. As soon as the game releases there would.. Actually there will be plenty of third party site doing the SAME exact thing and yet i dont see you guys complain about them.

Given that the char is stored on Blizzards servers and no way to get items onto them other than thru those servers, I am not so sure that would have happened.

Sure, you could meet the other player online and get an item from him, but that is far less convenient / easy / safe than an auction house, so I doubt there would have been much trade that way.

On always online

Now here i see something worth argueing about, i understand it is a drastic measure but fortunately it does not affect me as i have a really good internet.

that is my main gripe, and the reason I will not buy D3. It's not that my internet connection is bad, I just do not like to need to be connected at all times. Yes, I do play on my laptop, and there are potentially times I would not have a decent connection, plus, I do not want to be dependent on Blizzard keeping their servers up to access my chars, there are games going offline frequently (not so much by Blizzard, but that does not matter to me)

On stats and skills

Plain and simple we might rant but none of us played the game and none of us knows how it will REALLY work out in the end

agreed, I can kinda understand their argument of saying even with points there are build guides, so people only perceive flexibility but do not really use it - but the difference is that with points I choose to not make use of it (or choose to do so by doing an unconventional build), without them I do not have that choice (at least not to the same degree).

But I would withhold final judgement until I had played a bit - which right now seems to not ever happen, thanks to always-on DRM (don't pretend it is char integrity, store online chars on your servers and leave my SP chars alone, you still have the integrity and I do not have to be online at all times)

[UnDeaDKnight]

About the Real Money Auction House ... Things go beyond the "you can choose the real money one, or the in-game currency one".

If I can win real money by selling virtual items, then why not ?

I believe that many will be tempted by that thought, myself included, and this is what is going to happen:

There will be no good items in the normal Auction House, because people would want to earn real money, players will be less inclined to trade between each other for the same reason, GOLD WILL BE USELESS.

If you don't spend real money, the game will be a multiplayer co-op experience where the only currency will be items of equal value, and I don't see an option for trading one item for another in the AH, so you will have to find a person you want to trade with and do it face-to-face.

I thought I was buying the full gaming experience when I bought a game, instead, in Diablo 3, you get a crippled version of it(if you don't open up your pockets).

[Scryer]

About the Real Money Auction House ... Things go beyond the "you can choose the real money one, or the in-game currency one".

If I can win real money by selling virtual items, then why not ?

I believe that many will be tempted by that thought, myself included, and this is what is going to happen:

There will be no good items in the normal Auction House, because people would want to earn real money, players will be less inclined to trade between each other for the same reason, GOLD WILL BE USELESS.

If you don't spend real money, the game will be a multiplayer co-op experience where the only currency will be items of equal value, and I don't see an option for trading one item for another in the AH, so you will have to find a person you want to trade with and do it face-to-face.

I thought I was buying the full gaming experience when I bought a game, instead, in Diablo 3, you get a crippled version of it(if you don't open up your pockets).

You're still thinking of gold in Diablo 2 terms, which will not be the case in Diablo 3. There will be a 1 to 1 ratio of gold and money in the AH system, I plan on selling all my best items for gold and then selling my gold for real money.

Just in case you didn't get what I said, I said that gold will be worth a lot more in Diablo 3.

[matthewfarmery]

the problem with that is, how many uses will gold have? this is the key questions, and B how often will it drop?

if you use real money to buy pretty much everything, then gold has no value, while you can upgrade Artisans, it really depends on how much they will cost to run / upgrade, and while its also been confirmed that you can get very good stuff from crafting, but this will depend on the items and supply of them

so if you want that epic sword, and you need certain goods that are ultra rare, and see them on the RMAH, then you will or might buy them, as those goods will be sellable, but if they are worth a lot, people will use the RMAH

but ultimately to determine if gold has value, to depends on how many uses it has in the game, and how often it drops, if its common then no one will really bother to buy gold, especailly if there is very little on the GAH, only in game money sinks will determine if gold has value, and the way I see it, gold won't have value, not if its possible to solo the game, money might drop from trees, so selling gold could be pointless

[Scryer]

Gold will be used for everything.

[hooby]

Well, first of all Diablo 3 is a co-op game, so buying power only makes the co-op game easier.

As for buying cheats, now you've essentially twisted the argument to mean anything you want it to mean - cheats and in-game power are two different things. Cheats go beyond the game rules and in-game power stays within the game rules. So your argument is flawed.

The difference is clear to me, and at this point you're simply grasping at straws.

The game rules are - that to gain an item of power you have to either find it (for which you need a character strong enough to take on enemies of high enough level, and time) - or you have to collect something or enough of something that can be traded in for that item (which again takes time, and a character able to do it).

With the RMAH you can buy an item, that your character by the game rules (drop-rate and drop-level are game rules) couldn't have found self - yet.

As far as I remember, the most used cheat on D2 was maphack. No invincibility, no one-hitting Diablo, no crazy powers totally out of limit. It only allowed you to see enemies (and their resistancies) and other players on the map.
It was strictly forbidden on the battle.net and anyone who got caught using it, was banned.

As far as I see it, that cheat was much weaker, than buying the perfect item that you wouldn't be able to find yourself yet. Maphack has much less influence on the game. Still it was banned and punished.

So if there was a more powerful cheat than that - one that gave you +100 damage...
And there was an item on the RMAH that gave you +100 damage...

How would the cheat be bad and badly influencing the game, while buying the item would be cool and not affect other at all?

[hooby]

the problem with that is, how many uses will gold have? this is the key questions, and B how often will it drop?

In D2 you had basically unlimited amounts of gold later on in the game. Not because it dropped so much, but because every item you picked up could be sold for gold to ingame vendors.

You'd automatically accumulate wealth by playing. Just like in TQ you'd end up with ridiculous amounts of unusable gold.

So either the gold-auction house won't work at all - because gold will soon be worth shit - or they have to implement a lot of money sinks, so that gold is faster drained from the economy like people collect it.

That then means, that you will need lots of gold for upgrading skills, repairing your items, etc. - just like in WoW - and that will lead to forcing the player to farm for gold, to be able to pay his characters regular upkeep costs.

Upkeep costs for a certain amount of playtime have to higher than the average amount of money earned during the same amount of playtime - otherwise the system will still generate theoretically unlimited amounts of money.

As we know from WoW this system still doesn't work out in the long term, but having to farm is annoying as hell.

For such a System to work, there would have to be a fixed amount of currency in circulation. Monster wouldn't be allowed to drop anything, that can be sold for a fixed price at NPC vendors. Money may not be printed... er... dropped into existence. It may only be passed around. If new money just comes into existence, you always have inflation.

To make Gold a viable resource, they'll have to come up with a much more sophisticated economy simulation than that. But why would they do that? The worse the Gold-Auction House is, the more people will use the RMAH.

I'm pretty sure that the GAH will suck. Gold-Economy will be about as broken as any other game, inflation will lead to ridiculous prices, and the GAH will be flooded with only shit-items, because all the good stuff is sold on the RMAH.

[Malpheas]

That and farming will be the only pass time in D3. At some point, RMAH items will become so worthless the idea of selling items will be taken over by the idea of selling gold at third party websites for money, and all the good items will be moved over to GAH. That is my contradictory view of how it will end up, to hooby's.

Anyways, it will wreck the economy whichever way you look at it because it is an opportunity to sell items. It will not stop items being sold on third party websites, mind you, it will only make it easier to deal with Blizzard.

As far as arguing for D3, my shot at scryer was that if he felt that strongly about "do or do not" with playing D3, then he may as well stop arguing because that is not going to change anyones mind.

[Overlord]

The only reason i wanted Diablo 3 is to play by myself or via LAN. GAH and RMAH: useless in my book so I'd ignore them anyway. I never saw the fun in buying your gear in a game in which supposedly you can farm it on your own. AH's work in MMO's, but Diablo3 is no MMO...or It is and we don't know it yet :undecided:

[Llama8]

If D3 is more like Guild Wars or other online games where tons of logic runs only on the server it's going to take a lot longer than a few days.

If ever, if it means that the hackers/etc need to create the NPC/monster AI from scratch (assuming it's not in the client code/exe).

[Llama8]

blizzard won't be able to stop the cheating, so again that is really pointless forcing people online all the time because of that, so they should an offline mode and be done with it

No, they're forcing people to be online so they don't have to ship all of the logic/code with the client which will make it harder to develop cheats/hacks.

[shawnmck]

No, they're forcing people to be online so they don't have to ship all of the logic/code with the client which will make it harder to develop cheats/hacks.

Don't forget about the Mods.
With D3, there will be no possibility of mods that extend the game further.

[shawnmck]

Here is another good article.

http://www.pixelpoppers.com/2011/08/blizzard-and-two-level-deception.html

One of the points it makes is that Diablo 3 essentially becomes a "micro-transaction game", that allows players to build their character with money.

[Renevent]

True, but one that doesn't require to do so at all if you don't want to mess with it. You can ignore the auction house completely and you would be excluded from nothing. In the case of a true micro-transaction game, typically there are items on sale that you can't get in game.

[ZorusX]

D2 Had an auction house; it went something like this:

Join Game named Tradezzz r here
WUG
WUG
WUG
WUG
WUG
I got HRs for nigma
HRs here 4 offer
LF 38+ Hoto
WUG
WUG
Leave Game.

Currency: duped HRs

[Tenka]

Since D2 is mainly PVE I couldn't really care if people "cheat" and buy all the gear they want, it doesn't affect me at all. If I get some really good drop I can't use then I can sell or trade securely.

We don't know if the game will feature any kind of item bind on acquire either.

[Scryer]

- hooby

You're mistaken if you think Gold in Diablo 3 will become worthless.

Also, the RMAH is now part of the rules of Diablo 3, so there's really nothing wrong with it.

I've never heard of someone getting banned in Diablo 2 for using D2JSP.

- Malpheas

I'm not trying to change your minds at this point; I'm trying to stop misinformation.

[hooby]

- hooby

You're mistaken if you think Gold in Diablo 3 will become worthless.


I said it will either

A) be worthless
B) or there will be money sinks to drain gold from the economy (which always leads to forcing the player to farm gold, to be able to pay his upkeep costs).

There's only two factors here:
X) How much gold drops in a certain amount of playtime
Y) How much gold do you need for repairs/potions/gold-sinks for a certain amount of playtime.

X > Y: Gold accumulates, becomes worthless -> leads to A)
Y < X: Gold is something you are always short of -> leads to B)

(X = Y: Impossible to fine-balance the game so much, to ensure that equilibrium over long time.)

I'd actually prefer option A).

Going for B) would be a major drawback in my eyes.

[Scryer]

You're forgetting that people will be farming items as well as gold. Items will sell for gold in the GAH.

[yerkyerk]

You can have interesting gold sinks, instead of just wasting it on pots and repairing. Like, spend it on an limitless, ever-increasing arena rounds for bragging rights. Get some virtually limitless eye candy (like filling up uncle scrooge's money bin or something...).

Status symbols, as opposed to useful in-game money sinks, are mostly restricted to eye candy coupled with bragging rights, but offer limitless money sinks - just like in real life, no?

[hooby]

You're forgetting that people will be farming items as well as gold. Items will sell for gold in the GAH.

So, the gold from one player is passed on to another player - who can then use it to buy something else from the GAH.

The money used to buy stuff in the RMAH is not removed from the economy - it stays.

Well, since you are against misinformation and vehemently claim that gold will not become worthless in D3 for sure, you should maybe explain the system behind that and how it will work.

[OneEyeRed]

Sorry but nobody is going to sell worthwhile items on the GAH when they can make real cash on the RMAH. This is not going to happen when real currency is being used as a motivator. The GAH is a joke that they have thrown in like a worn out bone. What will happen is that new people will accidentally pay a ton of money for some piece of useless junk and learn a lesson.

There is absolutely no argument for having a GAH when real money transactions can take place. Therefore, in my opinion, it is a placeholder to tide over the disgruntled community. And for those who say they will play the game but not touch the RMAH even to sell, I say bazinga. You will be motivated by real currency and while You may not purchase, You certainly will sell.

Thus, the economy will be driven exclusively by the RMAH and as far as I am concerned, that's a broken and doomed economy in the making.

[hooby]

You can have interesting gold sinks, instead of just wasting it on pots and repairing. Like, spend it on an limitless, ever-increasing arena rounds for bragging rights. Get some virtually limitless eye candy (like filling up uncle scrooge's money bin or something...).

Status symbols, as opposed to useful in-game money sinks, are mostly restricted to eye candy coupled with bragging rights, but offer limitless money sinks - just like in real life, no?

Those surely are ways to reduce the amount of gold in circulation. But since those are optional, and players can choose to completely ignore them, they are no guarantee that gold value will be stable.

For a gold-sink to reliably balance the economy the gold-sink has to be non-optional, and the amount of money destroyed has to scale with the same variable that scales the amount of money earned: time spent playing.

Anything else will be an encouragement at best, but never a guarantee.

But no matter how gold is removed from the system - for it's value to be stable, the amount of gold removed must equal the amount of gold that is earned.

Prices in the GAH will always adjust themselves to the "average income" of the player. So to be able to buy the good stuff in a game economy where gold is worth something, you need to have more than the average guy.

The problem is, that "average" is calculated from every player in the system, including people who farm to be able to buy something, and including professional gold farmers.

Since you can't earn less than what you automatically get from playing (from drops), people who don't farm at all, will always be below average.

So if you want to buy good stuff, you have to farm. No way around it.

Unless of course the items in the game are never removed from circulation (by soulbinding them or giving them some sort of durability that can't be repaired and destroy them, when they reach 0) - so that the items that are traded become more and more and more (since they are dropped again, and again, and again) - in which case the whole system goes out of balance and we actually see massive deflation of item value.

But this would break the RMAH instead of the GAH - so Blizzard probably won't allow that to happen. They'd rather destroy the GAH, that's for sure.

[Scryer]

Some of the best items in the game will also be crafted, in order to craft items you must break down powerful items and also use gold.

In fact you need to use gold to do just about everything, from removing gems, to leveling up artisans, to crafting items, to item repairs.

When you consider that you'll need gold to make some of the best items in the game, gold becomes a very real currency.

Also, if an item does become very cheap players will be likely to buy them up and break them down for components to build other items.

[hooby]

Some of the best items in the game will also be crafted, in order to craft items you must break down powerful items and also use gold.

In fact you need to use gold to do just about everything, from removing gems, to leveling up artisans, to crafting items, to item repairs.

When you consider that you'll need gold to make some of the best items in the game, gold becomes a very real currency.

Also, if an item does become very cheap players will be likely to buy them up and break them down for components to build other items.

So, if I don't farm gold, I wont be able to craft good items, which are the best items in the game?

So in short, in have to farm to get the best items?

[hooby]

There's a completely different thing that just came to my mind...

Is D3 going to be 18+ rated?

Because actually, random item drops are compared to slot machines a lot, and with the RMAH D3 advances into the territory of online poker gaming.

I'm pretty sure that in most western countries gambling for money is only allowed if you're 18 or older. And there's very hard laws on that. I believe inside the EU there only recently has been a court case or a change of law that made poker sites require to own a casino license - forcing many of those sites to shut down.

How is Blizzard circumventing all those laws, and aren't they treading dangerous ground... couldn't this lead to quite nasty law suits?

You have to pay a fee to put an item in the AH - which is sort of an stake - and then it depends on factors you can't control, whether someone buys it or not. It depends on whether someone else undercuts your price, if the right buyer is coincidentally online and surfing the AH etc. - whether you make the sale or not is partly based on pure luck.

And whether you get an valuable item dropped or not is definitely pure luck...

So it's basically gambling, right?

So is it gonna get a 18+ rating? Will a certain US-Senator find new fodder for his "ban videogames" law proposals?