Online

[Renevent]

So it's already confirmed in the feature lists that there will be online...and although it hasn't been said my guess is it will be similar to how TQ is setup (open net). I get Grim Dawn probably won't have the funding for closed servers, but will there be any greater attempt to combat hacking online?

I still enjoyed TQ online anyways, but because it was basically open season for hackers, playing public games sucked and you had to pretty much just stick to people you knew or found online with similar online game ethics.

[medierra]

It is extremely unlikely that we'd be able to closed servers and server-side character storage unless ASYLUM101 buys 500,000 legendary pre-orders or I find a duffel bag full of unmarked bills on my doorstep. Without that security, it is extremely difficult to combat cheating in this sort of game.

As I've said in the past at ILE, this would also be a very important feature to me as a gamer and it's something I'd want to add as soon as was financially feasible and made sense for the company. I think of the game is successful enough, we may very well be able to offer secure servers in the future.

[Renevent]

Yeah I get that, what I meant was that if it was possible to somehow combat the cheating even in the open net system. I don't know if it's even worth attempting...every game with open net seems unable to protect the integrity of online games...look at Borderlands...it's practically open season to the point of making up item and actually corrupting OTHER PEOPLES characters. That's far worse than what I have seen in TQ though...I wonder if the hackers there are simply better or if Gearbox just did an absolutely horrid job on protecting users online.

[ASYLUM101]

500,000 eh?...

How about I just rob a bank and mail you half the cash?

[MadWasp]

Acceptable offer. :)

500,000 eh?...

How about I just rob a bank and mail you half the cash?

[medierra]

500,000 eh?...

How about I just rob a bank and mail you half the cash?

Hence the unmarked bills. ; p

[yerkyerk]

Isn't there anything that can be done with the Steam cloud system? Afaik, it stores save data from certain games on closed servers - and although that's not a guarantee for legit players, it'd definetely be a big step upwards.
I have no idea if Steam cloud can be set up for that purpose - and it'd probably cause compatibility issues with non-Steam users if it would work..

Otherwise we should probably set up a fan community some time before the game launches - which follows the rules of closed servers and trust on the honor system to work (and the thread to get kicked out of it if you fail to oblige).

[medierra]

I don't know all of the specifics as I'm not an engineer and haven't looked into this personally but my understanding is that cloud won't really help with multiplayer security. The stated purpose of cloud is to allow players to easily access their saved information from multiple computers. In a game like Grim Dawn, the game would have to access cloud constantly to auto-save as you play. I'm not sure that cloud is set up to allow for this type of constant access. I'm also not sure how secure it is. More importantly though, character-storage is only half the problem. Until the game is running on a secure server, it will still be possible for people to use run-time cheats.

[yerkyerk]

If mods are allowed on the secure servers, it doesn't matter how secure the servers are as the mods can probably provide pretty much any cheats. It's definetely not perfect, but it's a step forward and it could let trading actually mean something.

If mods are not allowed on closed servers but it's easy to mod the game, than closed servers become a lot less interesting..

[Rhis]

Unfortunately there isn't much that can be done without secure servers. Even if we could push relevant character data to the steam cloud, we couldn't ensure that the data being pushed was created by a reliable client.

As far as mods and secure servers go, the server would have to be running the mod in question, and would have to require that all clients run the exact same version of that mod. There wouldn't be a situation where people with different mods could join the same game.

What it boils down to is this: The only realistic way to provide a secure environment is to have the server make all the decisions. Clients can never be trusted.

[-X-]

What about releasing server binaries to the community?

Or at the very least putting in an option for players to sync their character(s) with third party servers?

Pretty please.

[Llama8]

look at Borderlands...it's practically open season to the point of making up item and actually corrupting OTHER PEOPLES characters. That's far worse than what I have seen in TQ though...I wonder if the hackers there are simply better or if Gearbox just did an absolutely horrid job on protecting users online.

Maybe certain types of games (those that favour graphics over gameplay, or attract the more ... boisterous younger male gamer) attract a certain type of gamer/hacker that prefers to endulge in that kind of hacking/editing/****wittery?

[Void(null)]

How about encrypting the character save file? It's wont stop cheating entirely, but it will make it less accessible.

While Defiler had some nice options, I could have lived without all of them (including potion stacking) if it meant having a more meaningful trade system in Titan Quest.