Do the girls looks beautiful in Grim Dawn?

[gusseyGoose]

Firstly, Sorry If I ask this kind of question.

When I first see the Immortal Throne's DVD cover, I'm amazed and I thought there would be 'more-open' tunics available for girls (like you can see all her body shape, stomach, etc.), some variations to the face, and more stylish armors for the girls.

Just when I played it with one of my female char, its still the same. The Armor looks big over her shoulder (and it closes her stomach too :( ), and sometimes it makes her 'unfeminine' and shows a brutish aura over her. The only Armor I like for my female char in TQ is *Armor of Troy and use Ao-Chin Red Cap for the helm, which left me no choice to choose another armor, because they're not female, not feminine.

I just want to ask.. Do Grim Dawn will have the same fashional-taste for the females? or will make it truly different? plans or screenshots maybe? I rly want to see what a female looks like in Grim Dawn :)

*edited ones because the default ones.. not good
*alyssea pic - my female char (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2885/alyssea.jpg)

[Prosoro]

Correct me if I'm wrong but in TQ the armor had both a 'Female and Male version' once eqquiped..atleast most of them do. For example the Gorgon Sentinel armor, naturally more suited to female (as Gorgons are Female) but place it on your Male Character and it will change to suit his broad chest etc.

I do understand what your saying though, armor such as the Gigantes gear looks ridiculous! Even for a male toon IMO. Also, I know the typical Hunter classes are always 'reserved' for the girls but yes, alot of the Hunter Gear looks awesome on Female Characters rather than male...try putting that 'Hunters Helm' on your guy lol

Anyway..I'm sure Crate will have some nice gear for the Ladies :P

[DoubleStrike]

Armor that doesn't actually protect the soft spots like the stomach is completely horrible. I can imagine some more funky high level magic armor being quite revealing though, but then it would have to be done within some reason.

there is little point to create scary monsters and a dark world and then put the player in a cheerleader uniform. It completely breaks the immersion.

[MadWasp]

Yeah girl equipment is an extremely important visual eye candy factor. Great cute lady and and her sexy gear design brings a lot more loyal costumer. :cool::D


As not to mention a thriller/horror environment and a cool baby looks awesome together. Remember good in horror films 80's slashers.

and newer ones 4 example:
Resident Evil -Milla Jovovich


http://clubfighters.iphpbb3.com/forum/download/file.php?nxu=94856264nx23115&id=28

or unknown zombie babes...

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo22/MindFuck-Mind-Fuck-Shit-Bricks/hooter-girls-zombies-cheerleader.jpg

[Void(null)]

Ada Wong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Wong) was better.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2qwzoys.jpg

And in turn: Aya Brea (http://parasiteeve.wikia.com/wiki/Aya_Brea) was in my humble opinion, rocking that dress much harder than Ada.

http://media3.obsoletegamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/pe1.jpg

[MadWasp]

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/4825/l86f477c82e8e124e36a7e6rm6.jpg

[MadWasp]

Aya Brea very good and beautiful with long blond hair. I agree ;)
I hate short girl hairs. But that's my strange cup of tea :p

[Renevent]

Armor that doesn't actually protect the soft spots like the stomach is completely horrible. I can imagine some more funky high level magic armor being quite revealing though, but then it would have to be done within some reason.

there is little point to create scary monsters and a dark world and then put the player in a cheerleader uniform. It completely breaks the immersion.

I completely agree...please please please don't make idiotic girl armor and have females running around in iron bikinis.

I am hoping Grim Dawn is trying to portray a gritty and dark world, and having chicks looking like zena the warrior barbie doesn't really help in giving that vibe.

*Man I hate what anime has done to art style in video games :cry:

[Roros]

I find it a bit odd how generic rpg's keep pumping out the metal bikinis, I haven't ever met a single person who admitted to liking it.

I quite liked the Global Agenda females. Even when they weren't showing any skin, they were distinctively female yet badass without looking dudeish.

http://scrap.5elements.net/screenshots/Global%20Agenda/ScreenShot00006.jpg


I'm not sure if this is relevant. I know IronLore worked on Soulstorm, but are any of those guys around in Crate nowadays? I always liked the SoB chick on the Soulstorm box and felt it was another good example of how female characters can be badass without having to show their bellybutton.

http://cdn1.ioffer.com/img/item/116/179/009/MoHs4eea0Td92q6.jpg

[Renevent]

Yes exactly! I think it is possible to have female warriors without having to turn them into strippers lol.

*edit*

The girl in the Soulstorm cover does look awesome! Never played the game though...

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l101rpDRde1qbqn37o1_500.jpg

[Void(null)]

The Sisters of Battle are perhaps not the best example of "OMG not metal bikini's plox!" While a lot of their armor is quite cool you still get the occasional piece like this:

http://www.jenova.dk/Pics/Excelsior/Cannoness1.jpg

[hooby]

I quite liked the Global Agenda females. Even when they weren't showing any skin, they were distinctively female yet badass without looking dudeish.

Have you ever seen a woman wearing high heels trying to run - in order to catch a train or something like that?

No look at your GA picture again, and then think about how useful and stabilizing that heels are going to be. That woman - as badass as she may look - can easily be taken out by just a simple gully grate.

It's always the same thing: Designers try to bring in some sort of fashionable (and possibly fetish-inducing) gimmick that they believe does make the females look more sexy and female - but end up producing stuff that just doesn't fit the game world.

And who says that combat-ready boots can't look sexy?
http://gordonandthewhale.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Underworld.jpg

[Roros]

Ha, I also don't think about how much that launcher and her armor may weigh, or how useful it would be with an illuminated LED strip for a visor. I'm not the one for realism.

[gusseyGoose]

I completely agree...please please please don't make idiotic girl armor and have females running around in iron bikinis. quoted from renevent.

hey no bikinis I mention, just more open and flexible female armor. still keep the realistic armor system. not too nude not too close either I mean. at least she have 'things' to look at rather than closed boring ones. and maybe someone would say "wow she looks seducing." instead of "Oh My Girl is Strong and Powerful, she can slam you over the bed! Look at her Muscle! WOW WTH LMAO BANG BANG *crashed* *bones crushed* " sorry if its too dramatic..

[Renevent]

Well considering they are in the business of killing monsters, and not seducing them, I still really don't care for it. I think they should dress accordingly :p

You do though, and that's ok nothing wrong it. Just as long as they don't go over board and keep it to a minimum I personally wouldn't mind I guess...though I am hoping they lean away from that type of thing.

[jiaco]

It's always the same thing: Designers try to bring in some sort of fashionable (and possibly fetish-inducing) gimmick that they believe does make the females look more sexy and female - but end up producing stuff that just doesn't fit the game world.

Amen to that.

Seriously, IMO, if there was no thong for the Seraphim, I would never have finished Sacred2. Honestly, there is no valid explanation for it. Its not arousing or anything pervert, it is just more fun to take a hot female through a game than a dorky hulk-man. And I assume that said hot female could be well armored and "realistic" as long as she was hot and open to modding...

[Void(null)]

Have you ever seen a woman wearing high heels trying to run - in order to catch a train or something like that?

No look at your GA picture again, and then think about how useful and stabilizing that heels are going to be. That woman - as badass as she may look - can easily be taken out by just a simple gully grate.


O'rly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CQVvTg2oyo

Well considering they are in the business of killing monsters, and not seducing them, I still really don't care for it. I think they should dress accordingly :p

Brilliant! We need a monster seduction class like... yesterday!

I suggest "Demon Humper" to rival Diablo 3's "Demon Hunter."

And thus began the tale of how Grim Dawn was banned in Australia before hitting Alpha.

[TECHNOmancer]

Well considering they are in the business of killing monsters, and not seducing them, I still really don't care for it. I think they should dress accordingly :p

This.

There's almost always some eye candy thrown into games in order to appeal to a largely male audience. That said, I prefer it to be limited so that it doesn't break the escapism/immersion of the game. I'd expect to see more skin in a game called "Zombies Vs. Bikini Babes" than one named "Grim Dawn."

TECHNOmancer

[Void(null)]

There's almost always some eye candy thrown into games in order to appeal to a largely male audience.

Fun fact:

40% of gamers are Female (http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_Essential_Facts_2010.PDF) and they also happen to want their characters to look cool.

If a female character is not showing some skin with some form of customization for big boobs my wife wont touch that game.

I have had a hell of a time getting her to play Mass Effect because Female Shepard is not Feminine enough.

[Renevent]

Yes but one needs to dig deeper than just the number of gamers that are female, and look at the actual demographics for games themselves. I'm pretty sure gaming is still a largely male driven industry, especially games that are geared towards violence and stuff like that.

For instance, of the number of women who play consoles the vast majority play the Wii:

http://kotaku.com/5411707/nintendo-boasts-9-million-player-advantage-among-female-console-gamers

Easy to guess why...the games there are more friendly to that particular demographic.

Now, that's not to say that no girls play Gears/Diablo/ect, heck even Gears 3 will now have a female character in the lineup, but by in large I think these types of games are still primarily driven by the male demographic, and in my humble opinion throwing female warriors into thongs and metal bras is VERY much a male orientated thing to do lol!

[Void(null)]

Girl gamers have as deep and wide an interest in the same variety of games as we guys do.

Counter Strike, Gears of War, BlazeBlue and Halo have all had female Champions and even the World Cyber Games are currently being represented by a Female Gamer.

All I am saying is don't discount that audience, because it is there. We may not have as many girls playing Counterstrike as we do Galaxy but there is no reason that there shouldn't and couldn't be.

ARPG's (Loot 'em ups) are very female friendly. They feature customization, constant character progression and collection. My Wife loved Titan Quest, my sister inlaw was a Diablo addict and all of my Girl Gamer friends loved Torchlight. In its own way World of Warcraft feeds many of those same needs and has a huge female following.

Its a market that could easily be there for Grim Dawn.

[Renevent]

It's not as deep and wide as you think, if you look even further at the statistics, most of these female 'hardcore gamers' are playing games like Mario, Wii games, Rockband, Facebook games, and other casual games. They may play them a lot (most studies said like 20 hours a week) and therefore can be considered 'hard core gamers', but let's be honest here the games 'we' consider hardcore and especially the violent ones are very much still driven by males.

Does that mean Crate should discount them or not consider them when designing Grim Dawn? Absolutely not, but then again I am not sure how throwing them in thongs and iron bikini's is serving that interest anyways...that sounds like something mostly for the boys lol!

[Void(null)]

Iron Bikini's no, but not making the female characters look like giant armor clad box's most certainly.

:undecided:

I'm more referring to global agenda than anything else man.

[Renevent]

Yeah I agree with that, I think HG:L had some nice female armor designs...especially for the Templar class.

http://i41.tinypic.com/35n4ldz.jpg

I mean yeah it does kinda have a iron bra thing going, but at the very least it looks like it was meant for protection and not just for looks hehe.

Granted they did have some pretty revealing stuff for the evoker/summoner female classes, but they looked more like chicks from hellraiser than sex symbols lol :D

[Lmaoboat]

Firstly, Sorry If I ask this kind of question.

When I first see the Immortal Throne's DVD cover, I'm amazed and I thought there would be 'more-open' tunics available for girls (like you can see all her body shape, stomach, etc.), some variations to the face, and more stylish armors for the girls.

Just when I played it with one of my female char, its still the same. The Armor looks big over her shoulder (and it closes her stomach too :( ), and sometimes it makes her 'unfeminine' and shows a brutish aura over her. The only Armor I like for my female char in TQ is *Armor of Troy and use Ao-Chin Red Cap for the helm, which left me no choice to choose another armor, because they're not female, not feminine.

I just want to ask.. Do Grim Dawn will have the same fashional-taste for the females? or will make it truly different? plans or screenshots maybe? I rly want to see what a female looks like in Grim Dawn :)

*edited ones because the default ones.. not good
*alyssea pic - my female char (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2885/alyssea.jpg)
You know they websites for what you're looking for. It's okay to be picky, there's an estimated 300 million.

[DragonWolf]

When playing games like TQ and Diablo i will always find myself going for the female character if possible. I find myself often prefering to play games with a character whos gender is the same as my own should there be the option and when it comes to armour selection while I don't mind a bit of skin, I dislike skimpy outfits. I mean come on, what kind of practicle use would an 'iron bra' have in the battle field? Especialy when compaired to that of a fitted chestplate.

When it comes to armor on my characters I will always go for the defensive capabilities over looks, but if theres a piece of armour of a similar rating i'll honestly go for the one that looks cooler.
Stylish yet practicle.

[Lixi]

I read in the FAQ that the game is " loosely inspired by the Victorian Era.."
I'd be more interested in 'armor' that appeals to that sort of sensibility, at least to some extent rather than armor that would make the character to have a mechanical appearance, fi that makes sense?

Clothing does not have to be manish to be serviceable and some feminine 'garnish' to garments and/or more form fitting clothing wouldn't be a bad thing, but as a woman I seriously snicker when I see scantily clad toons with bouncey perky no no bits running around on high heels. In games like these I always wondered why there weren't Manicure/Pedicure/Hair Stylist NPC's who could offer some waxing for a fee.

And before anyone asks, no, I dont' think there is any female gamer who would appreciate seeing a male warrior toon dressed in a banana yellow man thong running around in boots and looking like Fabio. Oh god, I think I just vomitted in my mouth.

[gusseyGoose]

no thongs. no female wearing thongs. not in this awesome game.

example female rogue-type armor.
http://unicorntail.uw.hu/gallery_2/rogue%20female.jpg

[shawnmck]

I personally don't mind female warriors showing some skin, but I certainly don't want them looking like prostitutes either (like they did in Sacred 1 & 2).
Nor do I want them so armored up that they look like men. There needs to be a balance that portrays sexy & bad-ass. I thought HG:L did that very well, as Renevent demonstrated with his pic.

Also....
You can't have it both ways. You can't complain about female armor being too revealing as being "unrealistic", but at the same time not saying anything about these dainty women wielding huge swords, rocket launchers, or whatever heavy weaponry. That is unrealistic also.

I say, bring a nice balance.
Don't portray the women as slutty, but don't over-dress them either so that they end up passing as male (don't notice their feminine traits).

Thats my opinion anyway.

[Malpheas]

to be Devil's Advocate there was a graphical armour set in Sacred 2 that was totally OMG EMPEROR type Wh40K type stuff. So much fun.

I'll see if I can find it.. Here we go. (http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Endijian%27s_Artifacts)

[Sile]

I'm sure there will be a slider in the options for the amount of skin shown for all of you fellas who really need to see pixelated skin to play the game.

lol srsly

[Roros]

I'm not sure we're on the same page.

[Geotarrr]

I would like to see character-customizing option in GD, at the Character Creation Screen. Some little details - eyes, hair-color, several face-shapes, something like that.

[nbringer]

I think a good artist can design good looking female gear without resorting to the cheap "bikini armor". Torchlight 2 does a very good job at that and if my memory serves me well there's also a thread on their forum in which people show consensus towards more plausible armor. I refuse to believe TL2 with its cartoony style would rely more on plausible armor than Grim Dawn. It would be wrong.

[Keyrock]

Old thread, but go ahead and put my name into the "For the love of God don't do bikini armor!" column. Armor can look cool and even sexy to a degree without resorting to chain g-string.

[Father Squid]

But it has always worked so well for Red Sonja... (http://www.majorspoilers.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/redsonja32/RS30AlexRosscov.jpg)

It matches her accessories (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/79250/1545640-red_sonja_45_by_maiolo.jpg)... although it is probably more scale than chain...

And it even appears to keep out the cold (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs8/i/2005/362/9/e/Red_Sonja_by_anjum.jpg)...

And she even wore it when she met Spiderman (http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/jezyj.xmkzd/v/vspfiles/photos/spider-man-red-sonja-2-aspen-2T.jpg?1334125276)!!!
God, some of Marvel's crossovers are so ridiculous...

[rise]

A poster noted that this community may be uninterested in unrealistic female armour, but I thought that I'd add my voice to this issue.

Gamers have consciences, and they can—and should—use them. Aesthetically "pleasing" female characters in video games reinforce the cultural construction that women must be physically attractive to be successful. Do women need to be "beautiful" to be heroic in action role-playing games? We can choose to refute that. The argument that these practices must be continued to justify success has some merit because it is unchallenged, so gaming expectations need to be changed.

The benefit of gender biased armour in Grim Dawn is negligible. Crate Entertainment is marketing this game to hardcore ARPG audiences, so the merit of game-play mechanics, story-telling and community involvement will determine interest in the game. Similarly, GD is a third person, isometric game, so the requirements for "beautiful" characters is different than a AAA MMORPG, such as Guild Wars 2, for example. Reproducing cliche female characters has limited rewards, but it carries the risk of decreasing immersion in the story telling environment. Valuing sex appeal (i.e., marketing) ahead of story-telling is one reason, among many, that the phrase "the storyline is okay for a game" exists, and my expectations are much higher.

Personally, this is a choice between reproducing gender inequality or helping to refute unfair industry practices through leading by example. medierra said that he doesn't innovate, but I consider this as a valuable, easy innovation. I challenge this game to make a positive choice while staying true to the "grim" setting.

[Father Squid]

Gamers have consciences, and they can—and should—use them.

If we did, there would be very little in the way of video games we'd support ... After all, take out gratuitous violence, gore, stereotypes, language, adult situations, etc... anything that goes against the conscience of people, and we are left with Peggle perhaps? I'd prefer to use my maturity and capabilities as a rational thinker to recognize these additions to games as what they are... After all, I'm not going to stop reading books since the latest mommy porn "Fifty Shades of Gray" is a best seller... I'm not going to stop going to the movies because the beautiful people are the predominant stars... In my mind, grim doesn't have to ever mean unaesthetic.... in fact, go back to the original gothic tales which would definitely serve as an inspiration for such a game as this, and you'll find many examples of aesthetic beauty throughout the stories...

[jaelrin]

In Dragon Age:Origins my female elf warrior was totally covered in armor, and still looked good.
But I hope there'll be decent face (or faces), sometimes it looked like TQ girl had lazy eyes.

[rise]

If we did, there would be very little in the way of video games we'd support ... After all, take out gratuitous violence, gore, stereotypes, language, adult situations, etc... anything that goes against the conscience of people, and we are left with Peggle perhaps? I'd prefer to use my maturity and capabilities as a rational thinker to recognize these additions to games as what they are... After all, I'm not going to stop reading books since the latest mommy porn "Fifty Shades of Gray" is a best seller... I'm not going to stop going to the movies because the beautiful people are the predominant stars... In my mind, grim doesn't have to ever mean unaesthetic.... in fact, go back to the original gothic tales which would definitely serve as an inspiration for such a game as this, and you'll find many examples of aesthetic beauty throughout the stories...

Thanks for your reply, Father Squid.

Firstly, "conscience" is used in the context of reproducing gender inequality, so the implicit connection to simulated violence is a (valid, but unsupported) jump. However, simulated violence is a characteristic of the action role-playing games, so we can work within the genre to address other issues, such as gender bias in female characters. These things can be similar, but they aren't necessarily the same.

Secondly, implying that using your conscience obligates you to always use it simplifies my argument, which addressed a specific subject. You can use "maturity and capability as a rational thinker" to recognize similarities, differences and nuances between and among issues. The presumption that connecting conscience with entertainment will open the flood gate of displeasure is flawed, for one can criticize a cultural product while consuming it (and enjoying it!); that is a primary characteristic of contemporary cultural studies. Similarly, one can encourage incremental improvement while participating in it.

I accept your point about aesthetic beauty in Gothic story-telling. These are some questions that came to me: Are female characters the best medium for capturing this theme? What about male characters? What about the story-telling, itself? Can the Gothic narrative model be improved on?

Lastly, I agree that people can recognize and contextualize morality in games. For example, I can play an evil character in Baldur's Gate or Fable without being evil, myself. However, this recognition must be an active process of identification. To assume that it occurs in the background can be dangerous. Things will slip by, and the narrative surrounding the product may reinforce or help shape the social reality of the consumer. For example, I can talk to a young girl about why Disney princesses are unrealistic, and the movie can still be enjoyed. However, if that conversation doesn't occur, the risk that this girl may think that this is real exists. It's why I value the conversation regardless of what the product is. Entertainment is a huge part of cultural transference, so I consider it more than "fair game" for cultural analysis.

[Tenka]

Add me to the "please include chainmail bikini" list then. I'm not interested in coal miner women.

Video games are escapism, fantasy and fun, not vehicles for social progressiveness.

[Gazz]

When playing games like TQ and Diablo i will always find myself going for the female character if possible.
I'm ambivalent. In Everquest I was playing a female warrior. A troll. Huge, green, ugly as sin, and dead sexy - at least in her own mind.
She was pretty vain, too! She wore a pink horned helmet and flat out refused to upgrade it to a far better one when the other one didn't have a graphic.

Also, females in such games are often pictured as flyweights. That's one thing they got right in Diablo. The female barbarian looks like this is her axe she's holding - not her big brother's.
The model physique may work for pure magic user types but a sword swinger, wearing heavy armour for long periods of time, is going to build some muscle.

That said, I'm male. I like looking at pretty female pixels. So sue me. =P
When it's combat armour, though, it shouldn't be any more revealing than for the men. If it is, it should have a matching reduction in protection.
Nothing wrong with a chainmail bikini when it has only 20% of the AC of regular chain mail.

[Seronx]

I vote for the bikini armor! :eek:

Guys deserve a speedo armour as well..

[jiaco]

My kids often use the French expression "le string de guerre", which means basically war thong. Very fun imo.

[rise]

My kids often use the French expression "le string de guerre", which means basically war thong. Very fun imo.

That phrase is hilarious! Perhaps the thongs of war shall cometh?

[Keyrock]

My kids often use the French expression "le string de guerre", which means basically war thong. Very fun imo.

Is that related to Deathspank's Thong of Virtue?

[Shoganai]

I think "Hildegard von Krone" is where I'd like to see the game go... there is a woman sporting realistic armor that doesn't disappoint.

[Dumbledof]

I think the girls should look good, because I mean you're going to have to look at your character. Just make sure they're not those disproportional, jiggling, double E cup girls like some games have

[Roros]

Yeah Hilde is awesome. I think part of it is her moveset as well. It's not a typical feminine ninja style but not a powerhouse manly one either.

[Gregorus Prime]

Screw chainmail bikinis. I want women dressed reasonably. I want them to look like badasses, not swimsuit models. I want you guys to include a full-coverage burqa that is objectively the best armor in the game just to piss off people who do want chainmail bikinis. Well, maybe don't go that far, but it's not sexy to have the women dressed like prostitutes that cater to fantasy LARPers. It's just plain stupid. If the women have plate armor with a plunging neckline then give the male occultists assless chaps as their default equipment and see how many people defend it.

No chainmail bikinis.

[Gazz]

If the women have plate armor with a plunging neckline then give the male occultists assless chaps as their default equipment
That is an awesome suggestion!

Assless pants are totally Mad Max and everyone knows that Mad Max is cool. =)

[Keyrock]

I think "Hildegard von Krone" is where I'd like to see the game go... there is a woman sporting realistic armor that doesn't disappoint.

Or Charlotte from Samurai Showdown
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu99/bigredcoat/charlotte-laughz.gif

[Jarrah]

My wife and I like to play RPGs cooperatively.

As in real life, my wife likes her characters to be red haired, large busted, sexy, and wearing stylish clothes.

To say that guys can have big strong characters that enhance their idea of their own masculinity, but to deny females the option to play a character that enhances their femininity is quite sexist.

"Reality" be damned, it doesn't matter if the armour is realistic. If you wanted realism you wouldn't be playing a game with magic.

What is more important is identification with the character, and having pretty pixels to look at for the duration of the game. Life is too short to look at ugly pixels. And life is to short to play for hours with character that you don't feel an attachment to. Which means pretty girls with stylish clothes.

[Renevent]

As in real life, my wife likes her characters to be red haired, large busted, sexy, and wearing stylish clothes.

Pics or it's lies!!!

LOL...I'm joking.

To say that guys can have big strong characters that enhance their idea of their own masculinity, but to deny females the option to play a character that enhances their femininity is quite sexist.

On a serious note, I think it's more sexist to assume females are all looking for the same way to identify with female characters or that they are looking to enhance their femininity with their characters. I wish we could just keep the claims of sexism out of the discussion though. I don't think people not liking iron bikinis are being sexist, nor are the one who do like them.

Anyways, what I think is best for a game to do is have a clear and defined tone. I personally would like it to be as gritty, dark, and serious as possible. Nothing makes me roll my eyes more then thong armor and other silliness.

With that said, I understand folks who do enjoy that stuff and why they want it. I guess it's really up to the designers to determine what fits and what doesn't with their vision of Grim Dawn.

[Shoganai]

My wife and I like to play RPGs cooperatively.

As in real life, my wife likes her characters to be red haired, large busted, sexy, and wearing stylish clothes.

To say that guys can have big strong characters that enhance their idea of their own masculinity, but to deny females the option to play a character that enhances their femininity is quite sexist.

"Reality" be damned, it doesn't matter if the armour is realistic. If you wanted realism you wouldn't be playing a game with magic.

What is more important is identification with the character, and having pretty pixels to look at for the duration of the game. Life is too short to look at ugly pixels. And life is to short to play for hours with character that you don't feel an attachment to. Which means pretty girls with stylish clothes.

I don't see anything the is ugly about Charlotte above, or Hilde

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/Branthor/soul-calibur-hildegard-von-krone.jpg

You can easily be big breasted and sexy in full armour, doing something like the below (Reina from Queen's Blade) is just easy and uninspired. (IMHO of course :D)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UgHD2e9m_mc/SnBf9XJ2MHI/AAAAAAAABQk/8F77InWGgus/s400/633507941156341396-armor-class.jpg

It's one thing to be sexy, it's another to be "man candy."

[Gregorus Prime]

While we're on the topic of boob-plate, I can look the other way on that so long as it's like Hilde (rounded to deflect blows) instead of molded to be funbag-shaped. You can have sexy armor, so long as it's armor and not steel plate lingerie.

[Sma]

I hate how in D3 every female character is made to look attractive, even the 40 year old witch. It makes the characters feel shallow and fake, it detracts a lot from the overall atmosphere when the characters are running around with makeup and impractical clothes when you are supposed to be fighting demons.

The world in Grim Dawn is gritty and broken, and the characters should fit with that theme. Having beautiful females running around in stylish armor is something I would hate to see. That kind of equipment should be reserved for rare late game items, looking good is not a priority when there's an apocalypse is going on.

I don't play these games to look at pretty girls and they shouldn't be there unless it makes sense in the context of the world.

[Roros]

I felt the female barbarian design was pretty good. She's obviously female even without stilettos.
The fact that there's a multi-page thread on the D3 boards about how the female barb isn't hot enough is a pretty good sign in my book.

[Sma]

I felt the female barbarian design was pretty good. She's obviously female even without stilettos.
The fact that there's a multi-page thread on the D3 boards about how the female barb isn't hot enough is a pretty good sign in my book.
She is the exception, both the Demon Hunter and Wizard are running around in high heels and silly armors.

Point is I don't like making characters attractive just for the sake of it, I prefer being an average looking character trying to survive in a world gone bad, in D3 I feel like some super model running around blowing up useless demons with lasers and kung fu moves.

[Pixie]

Beautiful girl with sexy gears FTW! :)

[Malkav]

I personally don't mind female warriors showing some skin, but I certainly don't want them looking like prostitutes either (like they did in Sacred 1 & 2).
Nor do I want them so armored up that they look like men. There needs to be a balance that portrays sexy & bad-ass. I thought HG:L did that very well, as Renevent demonstrated with his pic.

Also....
You can't have it both ways. You can't complain about female armor being too revealing as being "unrealistic", but at the same time not saying anything about these dainty women wielding huge swords, rocket launchers, or whatever heavy weaponry. That is unrealistic also.

I say, bring a nice balance.
Don't portray the women as slutty, but don't over-dress them either so that they end up passing as male (don't notice their feminine traits).

Thats my opinion anyway.

This is quite amusingly sexist, considering that I'm friends with women who could quite easily pummel you senseless. It is certainly true that less testosterone in women leads to less initial muscle mass. However, biologically speaking, it's the general lack of exercise among women that makes that difference much more pronounced. Girls I used to do martial arts with years ago are now almost as strong as I am, whereas back when we first started, they couldn't hold a finger to me. The idea of "over-dressed" women being unfeminine and "passing as male" is kind of ridiculous, as is the notion that they cannot and should not be able to use large, heavy weapons. Try not to confuse your opinions or misinformed grasp of reality with fact.

I say this purely out of experience with women who've even stalemated me in arm-wrestling matches. And they still look more than plenty feminine. I hope others in this thread who have made similar comments to this guy also read this and take something from it.

Also, +1 to Renevent for displaying more-or-less what I mean by this.

[Keyrock]

My problem is less with sexism and more with realism. If the game is going to have armor that shows off a lot of skin then fine, but don't have said armor mitigate much damage. I'm fine with a chain bikini or loincloth giving the wearer a bonus to agility because it frees up movement, but having a piece of armor that leaves 90% of the wearer's skin completely exposed absorb large amounts of damage seems completely absurd to me. If you're going to wear skimpy armor you better make sure your character is really good at dodging.

[Father Squid]

I'm fine with a chain bikini or loincloth giving the wearer a bonus to agility because it frees up movement, but having a piece of armor that leaves 90% of the wearer's skin completely exposed absorb large amounts of damage seems completely absurd to me. If you're going to wear skimpy armor you better make sure your character is really good at dodging.

That probably makes the most sense out of all of it... I think a lot of the newer D&D rules and stuff tried to account for this but I can't be bothered to go check... but I seem to recall that now anyone can wear plate, it just limits movement, etc..
And if you think back to all these comic / fantasy examples that go around in their skimpy battlesuits like Conan, Red Sonja, Tarzan, etc... Most of them were quite agile, and used their agility more than their so-called armor to protect them. If you can dodge all the blows... who needs armor?

http://heim.ifi.uio.no/larsstor/motivationals/dexterity.jpeg
http://www.blindbeard.com/pics/dc/dca-b9d535c54deea39797f6941cfbd5617a71b44e04.jpg
http://www.kraproom.com/pacman/aod/gallery/d/3319-2/dexterity.jpg

[Jeroen]

just to let you know that I personaly would like a female model in Grim Dawn not to look slutty, I have played Kings Bounty : armored princess, it was quite enjoyable, but when you play as a magic user, your character (princess Amile her name was I think) walks around in an iron clad bikini. now how am I to respect her if she walks around like that...
that said, I have to admid I did also enjoy reading the manga : claymore - the female fighters have some interesting armor. it does not look very protective.
I was lookimg for a picture on the internet, but somehow I stumbled on 2 pictures more suitable for this thread (nothing to do with the claymore manga)

http://www.airshipentertainment.com/growf/growfcomic/strips/growf_20070304.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/nmdjj7.jpg

[Athena]

Interesting debate.

I originally opened this thread expecting to be on the side of realistic, unsexy outfits simply because I feel gender equality is something oft overlooked in the video games industry.

However after reading multiple responses saying how women like their characters to display their sexuality, I have come to see the argument others have been pointing out.

Video games are a form of fantasy idealism.

As men we want our characters (with a few exceptions for the bare ass lovers) to be emphasise male characteristics we aspire to: strength, muscle and size.

These aren't the same traits that are valued in women (with a few exceptions). And because we shouldn't overlook gender equality, the girls should be able to display the characteristics they aspire too as well.

tl dr; I think I've been successfully converted to the chainmail bikini side.

[Urban Scorpion]

One of these days some enterprising game developer will have a cheesecake toggle in some menu.

All armor items will have two distinct flavors: Lots o' Skin and Reasonable. The toggle will allow the player to choose how their characters represent themselves.

And there will be much rejoicing and the people shall feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats...

[Rolo42]

This is quite amusingly sexist
He didn't say all women, he said dainty women--nothing sexist about it.

The TQ:IT cover shows a non-dainty, feminine woman. It also shows a very large triple-headed beast that I don't think matters what armour you are wearing, you would be lunch anyway--just put a towel over your head and assume that if you can't see it, it can't see you!

It is a fantasy game, not Alternate History Victorian Era Simulator 2013. Game-play always trumps realism. If you're still hung up on how much material is realistic just remember: it's magical armour...think of it as like a force-field! ;)

[bluswordgrl]

As one of the aforementioned Women who love to game, I would like to throw my 2 gold into this conversation. I'm sure there are all kinds of women and girls who enjoy fighting spiders the size of cattle in little more than 2 spangles and some dental floss, but I'm not one of them.
I can think of at least 5 games where I hated the so-called "armor" for the female chars so much that I end up playing as a man or some critter type or in 1 extreme case I stopped playing all together (but that was mostly because the game play sucked on top of the crappy character design). I've also gotten tired of all the mmo's where apparently you can summon demons, rain storms, and deities but the concept of pants is completely unheard of!
Please, Crate, give us OPTIONS! If you or your women friends want to run around in bikinis or hot pants then go right ahead. But for the rest of us, we would honestly love pants and armor that doesn't jiggle.

[Exxidus]

im sure the original poster wants to see something like this :) - whats my favourite too .... but i think it wouldnt fit into the environment ... but i prefer it too if the shape of the armour fits the body .. and not big fat plate armours where u dont see shapes of your female char anymore

http://www.buffed.de/screenshots/original/2010/07/Tera_Castanic_Ruestungssets_11.jpg

[Yoshio]

To throw in my two pieces of gold as well, I might be more on the realism side of looking to this, but still would like to see woman as woman and not as another species put into havey plated armor.
My point is, why not us the same armor given to male characters but make them a bit less heavy and more tailored to figure!? With Hellgate London and the templar a good example already had been named.

For other examples I will post in here some links, hope they do work!?
http://dlministries.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/armor.jpg
http://dlministries.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/woman-in-armor.jpg
http://gomogyourself.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/armor-of-elizabeth-the-golden-age1.jpg
http://style.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/kristen-stewart-snow-white-1.jpg
http://www.critic.de/fileadmin/Images/Underworld_09.jpg

[Renevent]

^ That's exactly the theme I would like to see in Grim Dawn. The armor is great looking, appears to offer protection, and still maintains the female form and distinguishes themselves from their male counterparts.

[Shoganai]

Yes, Leelee's armor looked great in Joan of Arc... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/Branthor/Smilies/nod.gif

[Luckmann]

I haven't really got anything to add to the discussion.

I just want to make my voice heard and say that I hate chainmail bikinis.

That is all.

[Haaznahnuf]

The question is, how far a video game (or a movie) can stray from its customers cultural norms and phantasms, without being repelled ? How far can it be exotic or realistic as regards to a fantasy culture, without being repelled ?

Game-play always trumps realism.Speaking about adult games... how funny it is to see all those nude mods which conform to current cultural fashion, importing current aesthetics in so-called medieval-fantasy worlds. So yes, games usually trump in-game coherency and realism, so that they don't allegedly put their players off. It is so obvious with mainstream games (and movies).

[zidders]

Can we please not have stereotypical sexist representations of females? Please? Crate, don't give in to the 'eye candy' crowd and make yet another rpg where men and women are objectified. No over the top huge-muscle guys, please, especially in a post apocalyptic enviornment where odds are, people would either be really lean and lightly muscled or really obese. No babes in high heels and stripper clothes.

Can we dress people the way they looked in 'The Road'?
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/randoEMS/road_6_lg.jpg

If you folks want to objectify women and stare at a bunch of steroided-out guys, go play Tera. The whole 'it needs to appeal to horny teenagers' thing is old and tired and cliche. There are tons of games out there that don't stoop to objectification, so you can't say that a game HAS to do it in order to sell.

[Shoganai]

Tera? You mean the game where you wear more when you aren't wearing armor at all?

http://chzvideogames.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/video-game-memes-tera-logic.jpg

[Lepruk86]

I haven't read every post here sorry...

But I think you need to think about Samus for chicks that look good in sci-fi armour. I liked how the suit is all about utility and not about being sexy or appealing to a male fantasy.

In other fantasy genres however, the balance seems hard to get right. I actually don't like suits that over emphasize a woman's boobs for example as to me (as others have said) it just ruins the general feel of a dark-fantasy style.

Such a tough one to call though. I am not sure if it is more sexist to completely ignore gender or try to account for it in games like this?

EDIT: Just asked the GF and she said she prefers functional armour over nothing / scantily clad. Her words:

"I stopped playing Rift because of their portrayal of women on the battlefield. I don't mind armour having some slight feminine quirks, but having women wear less than men is firstly inpractical from a fighting perspective; and to be frank, outright sexist".

"I like Leah for example from D3. She is girly, but not overtly so, or sexualised. Where as the females in Rift, one swipe and they'd be dead."

So there you go I guess :D.

[DoktorVivi]

I'm ok with bikini armor as long as it's statted appropriately, heh. Why yes, you can wear this skimpy metal thong thing if you want, but it's only going to increase your armor by 2. Have fun dying constantly!

[Sharne]

I will definitely point out D3's female characters are (when geared) pretty well dressed. You can tell they are female without having to have them run around in a bikini or steel bra. Those Joan of Arc pics were nice too. Also, Samus.

I really get frustrated with a lot of games that seem to emphasis boobs, it just degrades my respect for the makers. I mean I have that feeling even towards many of the League of legends models, too much thigh stomach or cleavage just doesn't make sense for a "battle arena" or rpg.

I also however like some customization of character. I do think it's funny to make characters shorter or taller thicker or thinner and then give them some disproportional item. Like make a really stronger looker character, then give him Cloud Strife's sword. In D3 I really wanted to see bigger "mighty weapons."

Also, I think it's a key thing for character design to be able to see the armor/weapon, and make them have meaningful immersion quality. D3 failed hard imo for this because armor is based on hard far you are into the game instead of what type you are wearing (like d2), as well the weapons are 90% never used, even on characters that should use them like the barb and monk.

So If I play a hunter or a mage or something in GD I want to see that armor have purpose and relation to gameplay. IDK if they plan to have different damage types or not, but that wouldn't be disinteresting to me to see armors literally stop arrows or swords (or not) in battle interactions.

tl;dr no sluts pls

[Zantai]

Girls play games?




*Runs for the hills*

[eisprinzessin]

Girls play games?
I know a woman (a grandma actually), who played TQ, Sacred etc. ;)

[PCDania]

I know a woman (a grandma actually), who played TQ, Sacred etc. ;)
Me too. Actually one of the best game testers I know of is a woman. I also know of other female players and they are from all age groups.

[Zantai]

Oh dear, too far too far!

I know plenty of women gamers. I'm marrying one of them. :p

[Renevent]

Something interesting related to this topic :D

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/13/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games-vs-the-internet/

My personal opinion is...well...all I could think of while watching the video is she was kind-of hot. Sorry, sue me I guess :p

As far as what she says honestly I think it's ridiculous and honestly I am pretty tired of this kind of stuff. If a game wants to portray women in an over sexualized way I certainly don't care. It's not my cup of tea, but if that's what people enjoy I am fine with it.

[koovan]

Where's the 'will the guys be hot' in Grim Dawn thread? Isn't there something amongst all this about boy gamers wanting to be sexually attractive females in the game world? In reality, which of us would choose not to be handsome/beautiful and sexy/attractive regardless of our gender? We might on occasion want to play an ugly, unattractive avatar in game but I get enough of playing that role in real life.

Anyway, the character models in Titan's Quest were absolutely fine for me - anything approaching that will be cool.

[GREW50ME]

I don't understand why women bitch about sexy, "sexist" women in video games. Have you ever heard a man complain about the sexist stereotypes of men in 300? Or how women view Conan as a sex object?

I work with women. One of the more young and attractive ones at my workplace engaged me in a conversation about Game of Thrones. When the subject of Khal Drogo came up, she said that she thought Khal Drogo was hot. Was I supposed to interject that tell her to stop viewing men as sex objects?

Women, instead of being combative and getting jealous of other women, even ones who don't exist, should embrace the hotness of their gender and stop being so catty. If Bayonetta wants to be a freak, so what? If Red Sonya wants wear a chainmail bikini all day, and to give it up to Conan, who cares? What is the point of women bashing men for their sexuality, when they are even worse? Closed-minded women like Feminist Frequency anger me. Where is the Masculist Frequency? If we are to stop sexually objectifying women in entertainment, then we need to stop doing it to men as well. Conan? Gone! WWE Wrestling? Gone. MMA fighting? Cover it up! Pro sports players? Loosen their clothing! 300? Ban it for the sexual exploitation of men! If we are not prepared to do this, then we are not prepared for the removal of chainmail bikinis and the like.

But I digress, women are emotional creatures, and that is part of what makes them so beautiful.

[DragonWolf]

On the flip side we could just have more guys running around in nothing but scale/plate speedos, wading through hordes of enemies and barely getting a scratch for thier efforts. :p

[Roros]

We might be opening a can of worms here, but I feel the issue is that whenever you portray a female whose primary (or sole) trait is that she's hot and attractive, you are reinforcing the notion that this is "all that women are good for". When a male is portrayed as attractive, he's usually also powerful, brave, and dominant.

Someone recently brought up an example where in legos, the males are either knights, firemen, or policemen, while the females are female for the sake of being female, or maybe housewives.

Now, I'm not going to accuse lego of being misogynistic and a conspiracy against feminism, but I can see how females often feel they are getting shafted, and especially in videogames where character designers have outright said on several occasions that a female character is designed as someone the guys want to "be with" as that is the primary role of females.

[GREW50ME]

We might be opening a can of worms here, but I feel the issue is that whenever you portray a female whose primary (or sole) trait is that she's hot and attractive, you are reinforcing the notion that this is "all that women are good for". When a male is portrayed as attractive, he's usually also powerful, brave, and dominant.

.
This just isn't true. You're telling me that Bayonetta or the characters in Dead or Alive aren't powerful, brave, and dominant?

[Roros]

I liked Bayonetta as a character, but the primary trait of the DoA girls (and arguably even Bayonetta) is that they are first and foremost attractive.

Even if they are fighters, a lot of them still come off as submissive and dainty. Like with the new Tomb Raider game which is a pretty strong and independent character, where they included a rape scene to make her more vulnerable and someone the player wants to rescue. It's a different mentality from say, Dead Space where you "are" the character and putting him in danger is a means of putting the player in danger.

[hay82]

I think the problem is lack of choice. In the vast majority of games women are show as hot scantily clad women. It seems that when a lot of games are made it's still with teenage boys in mind and if they don't think about having sex with the female character in the game, something is wrong. But the average age of gamers is going up and the games need to reflect this as well. However I think the push for that will come from indie games and then move up into triple A games. The latter is far too afraid to take chances and so far almost naked women work.

It's not really a problem that's contained to games but I'm guessing it's far worse in games, because elsewhere you still have choices to go out and find strong women who aren't marketed on sex.

[GREW50ME]

I liked Bayonetta as a character, but the primary trait of the DoA girls (and arguably even Bayonetta) is that they are first and foremost attractive.

Even if they are fighters, a lot of them still come off as submissive and dainty. Like with the new Tomb Raider game which is a pretty strong and independent character, where they included a rape scene to make her more vulnerable and someone the player wants to rescue. It's a different mentality from say, Dead Space where you "are" the character and putting him in danger is a means of putting the player in danger.
You have a point, but I'd argue that a lot of male characters in games are stereotypical as well. What is Halo's Master chief, if not the strong silent stereotype?

[Puffy]

As one of the aforementioned Women who love to game, I would like to throw my 2 gold into this conversation. I'm sure there are all kinds of women and girls who enjoy fighting spiders the size of cattle in little more than 2 spangles and some dental floss, but I'm not one of them.
I can think of at least 5 games where I hated the so-called "armor" for the female chars so much that I end up playing as a man or some critter type or in 1 extreme case I stopped playing all together (but that was mostly because the game play sucked on top of the crappy character design). I've also gotten tired of all the mmo's where apparently you can summon demons, rain storms, and deities but the concept of pants is completely unheard of!
Please, Crate, give us OPTIONS! If you or your women friends want to run around in bikinis or hot pants then go right ahead. But for the rest of us, we would honestly love pants and armor that doesn't jiggle.

^ This

Overly sexualised female characters serve only to isolate a significant portion of a game's target audience and really has no place in this day and age.

[hay82]

You have a point, but I'd argue that a lot of male characters in games are stereotypical as well. What is Halo's Master chief, if not the strong silent stereotype?
There probably are, but I don't think for a second that this is to appeal to women, but rather to the men who want to feel buff and powerfully sexy. But my point is that as men we have lots of choice of what characters we want to play, for women it seems to be sexy or choose a male character.

[Haaznahnuf]

It's not really a problem that's contained to games but I'm guessing it's far worse in games, because elsewhere you still have choices to go out and find strong women who aren't marketed on sex. So true !

I didn't understand all the speech in the video link by Renevent, but the reading was much edifying. Her example (the Schtroumpfette) or Lego's case are ill-chosen, as if not, better to change all the toys/cartoons/games industry's standards on that subject. That, I think is her true fight. Nonetheless, I agree with the general idea, that too much is too much, and that game designers share a strong responsibility in seeding in youngster minds non-reasonable (non-realistic) esthetic canons. Think Barbie doll.

Here, we are talking about an ESRB-M game, and I would like to be considered at least as a M-gamer. I hope the Crate designers will make the difference between a realistic general-infantry woman in unisex armor, and an strong-minded adventuress who keeps a seductive touch (a feather hat or some functional fancy jacket), for a reason unknown to me. I want both, without being seen as a sexist male. Because, sex (if only virtual) is part of life, and seduction is part of life, I am wishing some realism, according firstly to the in-game world, and to a lesser extend, to the real world.

Now, if the world designer says that everybody in that virtual world is going to be an androgynous cyborg, it will be ok. If he says that men are all trained warriors able to run while firing a M2 or a Mk19, it will be ok. If he says that this faction's women don't fight and then, can wear (long) skirts, why not if lore-wise ?
Especially if victorian or frontier typical sexist mindsets are to be inspiring Cairn's social design.

While in-game-lore-wise sexism is expected, unnecessary "real-world" sexism is bad.

The best would be to use many models : young, old, thin, fat, muscular, ugly, handsome, ... to account for some diversity.

[IamHowie]

You have a point, but I'd argue that a lot of male characters in games are stereotypical as well. What is Halo's Master chief, if not the strong silent stereotype?

That's because, we all want to punch Shinji (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinji_Ikari) in the face.

[Darklite]

You know, I'm sure it would be time consuming to implement, but a good example of handling armor well is in Team Fortress 2. Of course the only armor in Team Fortress 2 would be the hats, but there are certain hats that, when selected, give you an option of what style you want it. For a visual example here (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Styles) is the wiki style page. Maybe there could be a similar implementation in Grim Dawn for armor styles so that the people that like skimpy, chainmail bikinis could have that, and the people that like full suits of chain covering every inch if skin could have that. Obviously it would create more work for the art team, but I think this would be a really cool implementation.

[aiax]

Make women we want to be.

[Shoganai]

Or, Grim Dawn could create a realistic game with realistic armor and design, and leave it up to the mod community to make the "Bikini Mail Mod."

[koovan]

Or, Grim Dawn could create a realistic game with realistic armor and design, and leave it up to the mod community to make the "Bikini Mail Mod."

Is this the type of thing the mod community might come up with?

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99126

[Keyrock]

Is this the type of thing the mod community might come up with?

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99126

That's actually pretty good, and for a barbarian sorta fits. Plus, despite showing off a decent bit of skin it does look like it would offer at least some protection in a few places. The single pauldron design makes no sense in this context though. Certain types of gladiators in Rome used the single pauldron/vambrace design, but they also held a shield in the unprotected arm/hand. If you're going to dual wield you'd want to be equally protected on both sides. Plus I'm just not a fan of asymmetrical armor from a purely aesthetic point of view.

[aiax]

Is this the type of thing the mod community might come up with?



I think it's terrible. The shoulder pad horn would get caught on a tree branch, dead, it's also something easy to grab to get wrestled. Otherwise it is 'armor' for a light wilderness stealth class, except for all the areas that have bare skin, which will get scraped by thorns and brambles, but hey.

To even wear that, it has to be pretty warm, which case why is she wearing fur in that heat?

Why is she barefoot with those heavy greaves? The top of her foot is protected by padding, wait... did she put her sandals on upside down?

[Flashburn]

I don't expect to find chainmail bikinis (that just looks wrong) in Grim Dawn simply because from what I've seen from the screenshots and the gameplay video, that wouldn't fit into their setting.

Now wading into the argument, let me first say, I'm a guy and I always play female characters because, well there's nothing worse than staring at another guys ass for 100 plus hours and I like strong, capable heroines, if they so happen to be attractive even better.

I started up Diablo 3 picked a barbarian female and thought "What by the nine hells is that?", I was really hoping for a more Red Sonya physique :cry:

As for the whole chainmail bikini containing the jugs of Power, I think there was nothing wrong with TQ's females, they could have had a little more variety in faces and hair styles but I think they were fine, not adult film actresses (to be polite) and not built like a brick privy.

If anything I'm hoping for less full enclosed helmets, I don't mind the full metal jackets but the face helps remind me she is actual well a she. Circlets and crowns were my favourite armour types for my amazon in D2 because they didn't conceal the head.

Though if the axe wielder on the home page is anything to go by I think we will be seeing more than a few Ned Kelly style armours and I'm comfortable with that.

If I want to gawk as ridiculous, over sexualised costumes with dat ass and jugs of Power, I'll play Sudeki again :D

[archaven]

I'm all for bikini chainmail. Not that i'm perverted but my believe is that 'sexy' female sells in games. And that's what Grim Dawn needs. It needs attention and it need to sell alot of copies!

Over the net there are alot of people (majority of them who are parents) are really closed and negative about female appearances and get hostiles in discussions fighting who's right and who's wrong.

Honestly to me, everyone's right on their own believe. I just can't get it off my mind that people accept gore, decapitations, exploding head but cant accept female outfits with alittle slight feminine taste in games. I'm an open dad myself.

[hay82]

I honestly can't imagine anyone buying or not buying Grim Dawn based on what the femal characters are wearing.

It's easier to accept gore because there's not a certain group that feels discriminated by that, at most people feel disguested by it.

[SpeedFreak3]

if i remember right, there was armores in TQ that was similar but with less protected zones. So classes that havent that much strength to wear the most protective armor got one too.
So you can handle it in grim dawn that way too, but i think realistic. Less armor = less protection.

I like to run around like Conan, showing awesome muscles or as a women in underwear, BUT thats only for FUN.

besides Armores can look very sexy on women without leaving them almost naked.

about Muscles and so on - well, if you got a heavily armored, 2 handed axe wielding character, you will need muscles . On the other side a mage wearing robes of silk and holding a wooden staff wont need that much muscles, but he wont be fat either because you always travel by foot and you have to move around in battle.

An other point is the face. I refuse to wear a full helmet in many games, especially when i got customization for my face, hair etc. but as everytime i did it at my own risk. when things get too difficult i put the helmet on :P maybe you can do that with armor too.

as my final thought. When i want to see less armor/ more skin i would play a mage or archer class, there it doesn't matter or is probably needed that you have less protected Bodyparts.

[Zachary Colossus]

She is the exception, both the Demon Hunter and Wizard are running around in high heels and silly armors.

Point is I don't like making characters attractive just for the sake of it, I prefer being an average looking character trying to survive in a world gone bad, in D3 I feel like some super model running around blowing up useless demons with lasers and kung fu moves.

To be fair, the Monk and Witch Doctor Females don't really fit the bill 100% either.

Can we please not have stereotypical sexist representations of females? Please? Crate, don't give in to the 'eye candy' crowd and make yet another rpg where men and women are objectified. No over the top huge-muscle guys, please, especially in a post apocalyptic enviornment where odds are, people would either be really lean and lightly muscled or really obese. No babes in high heels and stripper clothes.

Can we dress people the way they looked in 'The Road'?

If you folks want to objectify women and stare at a bunch of steroided-out guys, go play Tera. The whole 'it needs to appeal to horny teenagers' thing is old and tired and cliche. There are tons of games out there that don't stoop to objectification, so you can't say that a game HAS to do it in order to sell.

This is something I agree with a lot. Personally I want to play a character that I feel is like me. I am strong and muscular, but short (5'8") and overweight(240lbs). I want to feel like I am putting myself into this world, and then doing the things that I would do in the situations the game presents. That's one of the points of an RPG, to give players the option of putting themselves (or made up characters) in otherworldly situations and then acting out those characters actions accordingly, even if it is an ARPG.

[bluswordgrl]

I just want options. Tube tops, hot pants and miniskirts to the right, pants to the left and Non-skankified armor in the middle. Heck if ya'll really want the Chainmail Bikini, just make it a craft project. Lol, actually that would be pretty funny!

[Haaznahnuf]

Here, female human mercenaries and mage :

http://www.oforcsandmen.com/screenshots/ooam-26.jpg
http://www.oforcsandmen.com/screenshots/ooam-18.jpg
http://www.oforcsandmen.com/screenshots/ooam-17.jpg
A mage in pants !

[Shoganai]

I just want options. Tube tops, hot pants and miniskirts to the right, pants to the left and Non-skankified armor in the middle. Heck if ya'll really want the Chainmail Bikini, just make it a craft project. Lol, actually that would be pretty funny!

Oh don't worry... I'm sure the mod community will be hard at work. They certainly have been in Skyrim :P

http://static.skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/images/19665-4-1341045208.jpg

[zidders]

I want the characters wearing what fits the setting, not what 'looks hot'. The title of the game is 'Grim Dawn' not 'Americas Top Model' for a reason. This isn't 'Beach Party:The RPG', this is a post apocalyptic setting where humans are fighting for their survival.

If this game offered anything 'sexy', I'd give my key back to the person who got it for me and walk. Part of the reason i'm getting the game is for the setting and story. I think it would show a lack of integrity on behalf of Crate if they sacrificed the integrity of the setting just to put females Or males in outfits that made no sense when looked at in context with the grim, bleak setting they inhabit.

Obviously, come kind of unique looking gear that serves a dual purpose of being decorative AND protective would make sense, but the odds are characters in this kind of setting would look at what's 'sexy' or not in a completely different manner than most of us would. It would be all about how powerful someone was, how big their group was, how strong it was, how much protection they could offer, etc.

Also, way too much objectification going on in this thread. I mean, wow. Some of you need to wake up and realize that it's the 21st century. Time to stop looking at your fellow human beings as objects to be ogled over.

[eisprinzessin]

This isn't 'Beach Party:The RPG'
rofl ... you made my day :D

[yerkyerk]

Aesthetics are important, imho. There should be a difference between male and female armor, else there's little point in offering the player to choose between genders. However, I'm against the objectification of women by placing them in unrealistic bikini armor. From what I've seen in the screenshots though, I can't imagine Crate is going to go the route of less is more on female armor. The game will be moddable, there will be enough mods to cater to the lust of some of the gamers on here.

There's plenty of proper female armor around to get inspired by, e.g.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315/Anastazja_2007/underworld3.jpg
It's still a bit on the "light" side and it definitely could use more ornaments (I'm not against flashy useless stuff :)), but it's a decent start.

Ofcourse, you could ignore differences between male and female armor and you get something like this;
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/d/d3/Brienne_of_Tarth_HBO.jpg


EDIT: Also, female armor sucks (http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6550847/female-armor-sucks)

[zidders]

I envision something like http://digital-art-gallery.com/oid/43/470x800_8673_Latter_day_2d_character_post_apocalyp tic_girl_woman_soldier_picture_image_digital_art.j pg

[Younghappy]

I envision something like http://digital-art-gallery.com/oid/43/470x800_8673_Latter_day_2d_character_post_apocalyp tic_girl_woman_soldier_picture_image_digital_art.j pg

That one looks really cool, zidders! Looks like a kinda apocalyptic makeshift-commando if you know what I mean? :p

[TheFishMonger]

I completely agree...please please please don't make idiotic girl armor and have females running around in iron bikinis.

I am hoping Grim Dawn is trying to portray a gritty and dark world, and having chicks looking like zena the warrior barbie doesn't really help in giving that vibe.

*Man I hate what anime has done to art style in video games :cry:

I agree with this. But, the developers can still make armor that looks really cool and some of the designs don't have to be completely practical if giving up a little gives way to make a much better looking armor piece. But they should try to keep things looking realistic to what would actually protect you.

[DarthMoose]

Armor should look like armor. Nothing wrong with perhaps sleeker profiles for a more feminine appearance but at the end of the day a giant section of armor missing just to show off your belly button or some thigh isn't very practical.

For something of a more acrobatic character, sure why not take off those shoulder pads and give yourself some flexibility but there still shouldn't be that much skin showing when cloth in those areas does just as good a job and offers some resistance to the environment.

But hey, maybe I just expect too much practicality out of my fictional universes.

[Younghappy]

Assassin's Creed: Liberation (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Creed_III:_Liberation) will have a female protagonist, and I have to say it; she looks pretty good for a female char ;)

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/f/f2/ACLiberation-Aveline_CoverArt.png

Maybe Grim Dawn's female equipment would look like this; to me, a female char can be beautiful, but her clothes don't need to be revealing, just practical :rolleyes:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120605115221/assassinscreed/images/f/f6/AC3L2.jpg

Never thought I would say this, but; that female assassin (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Aveline_de_Grandpr%C3%A9) looks pretty deadly dressed part-highwayman/part-noblewoman :p:D
Younghappy :)

[Rolo42]

- This isn't an either-or; it isn't either completely conservative or completely pornographic. There is a spectrum here but only the two extremes are being discussed with no accounting for good taste.

- Straw man arguments. Someone who likes evocative apparel is presumed to "objectify" women; likewise, anyone who doesn't like evocative apparel is assumed not to view women inappropriately. People aren't "all good" or "all bad" based on this, or any, one trait.

- Men and women are different. I don't know why guys are supposed to apologise for being guys and women are supposed to make excuses for being women; it is unnecessary and destructive. There is no point in treating men and women identically. Additionally, different doesn't imply one is greater or less than the other; in fact, they are synergistic so long as we quit trying to "normalise" them to androgyny, creating gender/role/identity confusion.

- Last year, 42% of gamers (average age of 37) were women. I think its a safe guess that the industry isn't going to alienate 42% of the market. I envision many all-women focus groups garnering what women want and then testing that by giving said women a wide selection of avatars, armour, etc. to choose. Any bets on the outcome?

If women didn't want to be "sexy", then why the $30B lingerie industry? How many men do you see in lingerie stores? Are slave-masters buying said unmentionables and forcing women to wear them?


Anyway, the character models in Titan's Quest were absolutely fine for me - anything approaching that will be cool.
I completely agree; TQ had the sex appeal but it wasn't distasteful. (Although, I could see where it wouldn't be everyone's taste but you can't please all the people all the time.) I'm trusting the lead designer to do a great job with it, again.

[Typhos]

I played quite a bit of Aion and one thing that i found really quite stupid was how the armor skins changed between male and female (altho it is possible to change skins on items in aion)

I do agree they should change a little but not to this extent

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m206/Ozzy84/2z7iywm.jpg
just an example of the difference both of these characters are using the exact same items

I dont even understand how that can be called armor as it wouldnt really protect you from anything

I personally dont play games to look at pixel women

[Laughter]

Just skimming through this thread I would like to voice my thoughts.

As a female who usually sticks to her own sex I am all for playing an avatar who is more pleasing to the eye. Not that there is anything wrong with one slightly less attractive. It's nice but in the end doesn't matter if the game play is amazing.

[archaven]

I played quite a bit of Aion and one thing that i found really quite stupid was how the armor skins changed between male and female (altho it is possible to change skins on items in aion)

I do agree they should change a little but not to this extent

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m206/Ozzy84/2z7iywm.jpg
just an example of the difference both of these characters are using the exact same items

I dont even understand how that can be called armor as it wouldnt really protect you from anything

I personally dont play games to look at pixel women

You don't but others do. It's a fantasy world and i believe no one likes to see unpleasant things, hear unpleasant words/sound/music or eat badly taste food.

If you turn it the other way and look at male avatar, i believe i don't like to play a fat, clumsy character that wear furs offering me any armor protection.

People can argue all they want for the sake of their point just for one purpose: to get what they want. And finally, everyone who don't share his/her views will be victimised.

Have an open concept. Make it available to those who want and those who do not don't need to wear the armor. No one forcing a gun on you that you must wear it. The same example as in real life. If you saw a female wearing overly sexy but you don't like it do you ask her not to wear it? The problem is not her. Is YOU.

[Gibly]

When it comes to women I wouldn't mind seeing Amozonian warriors. Tall, slightly muscular, strong but still wearing proper armor. Xena Warrior princess in her skimpy skirt is not going to cut it in actual battle. Not even a stealthy thief/assasin would be dressed with a lot of skin showing. Women can be quite attractive and sensual while still dressed up. In fact more so then when showing skin if you ask me. The more you see, the less it leaves to imagination. Same reason I never got into the whole playboy/nudity bar thing.

[Haaznahnuf]

As Gibly just said, we don't have the same concept for sexiness. It is not a matter of morality, or personal/cultural tolerance.

As a male, I enjoy the female armors shown in AoC videos and pictures (never played it), precisely because of the particular settings of the Conan's fantasy world. Maybe, I will be a forever teen while in Cimmeria. :p

As a gamer, besides AoC and like-games, novels and movies, I feel like high-heels and nudity is so ridiculous that it will spoil my pastime, for two reasons : realism and self-consistency (for the same reason you may laugh at an old "sword and sandal" movie), and anachronism (when Fantasy is based on Antiquity, Medieval or Modern (European) eras, it is odd to see Spartans fighting naked in line battles or women running in high heels). Both reasons hinder my ability to identify myself with heroes. And now that I am mature, I would gladly identify myself with a fat lazy ogre butcher or a ugly gnomish wise druid. ;)

[Renevent]

Thought this pertained to the topic a bit and is pretty funny:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6550847/female-armor-sucks

[jiaco]

Damn, thank the gods that my female toons in TQ were not that sensitive, that female in the video has far more protection than I ever give them.

[eisprinzessin]

lol - nice vid ... reminds me that we will shortly (more or less) know the answer to the original query:
We also had thought we might have to release alpha without a female PC but we're well on the way to getting her in-game now - we've got female versions of all the equipment done and just need to finish skinning them so they'll animate. We're not far off now though.
If Zantai will give us a sneak peek?

[Jeroen]

Hello everyone.

I wanted people to know that there is game that features a heroine wearing an iron-clad bikini as armor. well, there are plenty of those games. but here is the interesting part : this game is actually pretty good !

I am talking about kings bounty : armored princess
I just noticed gog has the goty edition (including an expansion)
I had bought the game and later the expansion, but the latter came with horrible DRM. just bought it again from gog. am I rewarding the makers for including horrible DRM in the original release ? I might be doing wrong...

at the moment the game is $15 and gog claims that this is a discounted price. dont really agree with that, but I had so much fun the game - it is worth $15.

http://www.gog.com/gamecard/kings_bounty_crossworlds_goty

if you choose to play the magic heroine version (warrior and paladin is also possible), your hero is a princess wearing an iron clad bikini. but here is a solution :

find the file game.ini :
C:\Documents and Settings\<my user name>\My Documents\My Games\Kings Bounty Princess\game.ini
and open it in notepad. There's a whole bunch of stuff there but the line you want is:

setf ~heroskin -1

because this determines what Amelie model is used. Basically it has 4 settings:

-1 => Amelie's model always corresponds to her class
0 => Amelie always uses the model of the Warrior
1 => Amelie always uses the model of the Paladin
2 => Amelie always uses the model of the Mage

choose 0 and your hero has a bit more clothes on.

If you have enjoyed 'Heroes of Might and Magic' in the past. I recommend you buy this game. well, if you are a wealthy person you might also want to buy the original kings bounty, available from gog for $10.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/393115_10151170719242657_1919332852_n.png

[Moist]

Um, haha...


I dont really care. As long as it does its job im sure she doesn't either..Just depends on the time period or lore the game is following. If it makes sense that the girl would wear full armor. then she should. Im not 100% sure. but i didnt think armor was really tailored for females. And if they did use it they would just use the stock standard what they had at the time for the males.

[Skorpion_King]

Also I don´t really care.. but I would like a female character looks really a female. I don´t like some game characters where female are some kind of... well, not nice body.

The only think i must say is.. I like Big boobs (in girls only :P , someone dislike?) . Is that bad? I also like funny and smart girls in real life, but for characters in a game... I am not going to marry them so If they look beatiful would be enough..

The only important point about female characters in a game I ask for is:

I really miss blonde female in TQ :(
I hope in Grim Dawn we can change hair colour.

TQ girls were beatiful enough for me. I don't need more beautiful girls in a game.. but of course looking the landscape will be sweet with 90-60-90 girls around :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Also I like realistic NPC in games, not "supermodel only" cities. But of couse if we can see some "Sofia Vergara looks alike" girls will be niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice :D

[ryunp]

Skyrim had some decent armor. I picked a female character but until ceasing playtime did I notice she was all covered up in armor:
http://www.ryunp.com/misc/grimdawn/Skyrim_FemaleArmor.jpg

So I wasn't entirely driven by her looks, but that's just me. As people have noted throughout this thread: there will be mods. Undoubtedly a skin mod will show up and people shall get the coveted look:
http://www.ryunp.com/misc/grimdawn/Skyrim_FemaleArmorSilly.jpg

:rolleyes:

[Lmaoboat]

So I wasn't entirely driven by her looks, but that's just me. As people have noted throughout this thread: there will be mods. Undoubtedly a skin mod will show up and people shall get the coveted look:
http://www.ryunp.com/misc/grimdawn/Skyrim_FemaleArmorSilly.jpg

:rolleyes:

Many a horrible sight lurks just beneath the surface of the Nexus.

[wajld]

You can make the armor look pretty on the gals, that's OK, just don't make it look too pretty if you know what I mean ;)

[Mindstab_Thrull]

I've tried showing off some TQ female toons to some female gamers I know. A common theme says they look "unrealistic", and in some cases, that includes the armor (the expression "chainmail bikini" comes to mind..). I must admit the basic female form used in TQ looked kind of.. off. Maybe it's just me, but that's what I see.

[Hack]

All the female gamers I know prefer to look cute and sexy as opposed to looking like a butch lesbian. There's a reason nearly every girl I know picked Night Elf in WoW as opposed to Dwarf.

I know personally I prefer my female toons to be "sexy", but not ridiculously so. I don't know anyone who wants to play a fat, ugly or otherwise unattractive character for 5 hours a day. The female form is a beautiful thing, covering it in plate just seems wrong.

[Younghappy]

All the female gamers I know prefer to look cute and sexy as opposed to looking like a butch lesbian. There's a reason nearly every girl I know picked Night Elf in WoW as opposed to Dwarf.

A female char can look realistic in armour without having to look like a "butch lesbian" as you put it, though I think your example isn't the best either; dwarf females in WoW are supposed to look butch, I believe, as that is WoW's take on them (and most other games have a similar take on dwarf women I believe)

I know personally I prefer my female toons to be "sexy", but not ridiculously so. I don't know anyone who wants to play a fat, ugly or otherwise unattractive character for 5 hours a day. The female form is a beautiful thing, covering it in plate just seems wrong.

I'm not totally discarding your opinion here, Hack, but I am strongly disagreeing with you on this point. "Covering [the female form] in plate just seems wrong" - I am inclined to disagree with you; if you were a female, fighting in a "dark, war-torn world" such as Cairn, would you try to look sexy or would you wear plate armour? Genuine question.

[Astral Faery]

From a female standpoint: I always pick a female character, if one is available. What I like to see in female armor is an outfit that looks like armor. I like my character to be sexy while being protected. I like my character to look like she can kick any male's ass on a battlefield - and she doesn't need her boobs hanging out to do that - unless her aim is to distract. I know sex sells, but the market isn't entirely male. To get my money, a game needs to make me just as much of a badass in battle as anyone else, I want a game where other people are going to respect me for my fighting - not the shape of my rear end. Yeah, I find it insulting to play games where females are dressed in little more than a bikini - there's just no reason for it, when you can cover me up and still make me rock. I want to look like a girl, but that doesn't mean always showing off my assets. Smart games can do this. TQ did this well. People who are only logging in to see half naked characters really ought to think about getting a life because that's pretty sad. A good game will sell itself on its mood and fighting, not its bikinis. :rolleyes:

[DeMasked]

I agree with you. I hate seeing games having the females with unrealistic armor.

Good thing Grim Dawn isn't going that direction.

[Astral Faery]

Aye - I like the look of the female character. :)

[MadWasp]

Realistic BIGGER boobs also welcome! :)

[deathwings51]

To anyone who thinks females in armor don't look sexy and badass at the same time, you need to take a look at some of the armor in KoA: Reckoning. I loved how armor was full body in it for your character and there was variety to it. I personally have no qualms about nudity in games but a female warrior with boobs/ass exposed in combat is just plain stupid whether pleasing to the senses or not.

[ibugsy]

To anyone who thinks females in armor don't look sexy and badass at the same time, you need to take a look at some of the armor in KoA: Reckoning. I loved how armor was full body in it for your character and there was variety to it. I personally have no qualms about nudity in games but a female warrior with boobs/ass exposed in combat is just plain stupid whether pleasing to the senses or not.

I too am glad that the female is in armor and looks ready for combat and not some beauty pageant queen in a bikini running around with a sword. The female character in the screenshots looks like she's ready for battle!

[Marc999]

Haha 15+ pages on T & A. Go figure eh?

Just dress her up as a nun, give her a sword and call it a day.

[ibugsy]

Haha 15+ pages on NO T & A. Go figure eh?

Just dress her up as a nun, give her a sword and call it a day.

Fixed that for ya! ;)

[deathwings51]

I too am glad that the female is in armor and looks ready for combat and not some beauty pageant queen in a bikini running around with a sword. The female character in the screenshots looks like she's ready for battle!

Yeah she should have an expression on her face like "I'm gonna destroy you boy. On the battlefield and in the bed" :D

[ibugsy]

Yeah she should have an expression on her face like "I'm gonna destroy you boy. On the battlefield and in the bed" :D

Fixed that for ya! ;)

[violentbydesign]

Well you could look at *some* Korean MMO's to get a gauge on what sexy female armor looks like. TERA comes to mind.

http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/caticons/human_f.jpg

Or you could just read this article and understand why most female (and some male) fantasy armor in games are done without survival in mind at all.

Fantasy Armor and Lady Bits (http://madartlab.com/2011/12/14/fantasy-armor-and-lady-bits/)

[Roros]

Been playing Darksouls some more in anticipation of the second one and I feel that's definitely another game with proper female armor. There are a couple of skimpy sets for those who are after that, but those are skimpy on the male characters as well so I guess it all works out.

My character in the background is in light armor and the one in the foreground is in medium plate.

http://i.imgur.com/IMQ3DTT.jpg

[Shrimp]

Dear Lord, what a fuss about the appearance of female characters.
No need for muscular, androgenic female types.
http://media-cache-ec6.pinterest.com/192x/ca/ba/a0/cabaa062ff430bd33ccf38d60d9f8131.jpg

But I do agree running into battle with nothing but a bikini is kinda silly.
http://media-cache-ec3.pinterest.com/192x/5e/f6/51/5ef6511cff0cfec8a2e6d14616efb129.jpg

I dun care too much as long as it has some kind of finesse.

[eisprinzessin]

Or you could just read this article and understand why most female (and some male) fantasy armor in games are done without survival in mind at all.

Fantasy Armor and Lady Bits (http://madartlab.com/2011/12/14/fantasy-armor-and-lady-bits/)
TL;DR but I followed the link he posted at the beginning, which has more good samples: Women Fighters In Reasonable Armor (http://womenfighters.tumblr.com/) - ladies that actually dress for dealing damage

[Dr.Phibes]

Dear Lord, what a fuss about the appearance of female characters.
No need for muscular, androgenic female types.
http://media-cache-ec6.pinterest.com/192x/ca/ba/a0/cabaa062ff430bd33ccf38d60d9f8131.jpg

But I do agree running into battle with nothing but a bikini is kinda silly.
http://media-cache-ec3.pinterest.com/192x/5e/f6/51/5ef6511cff0cfec8a2e6d14616efb129.jpg

I dun care too much as long as it has some kind of finesse.

The first one for the sake of realism.

[yerkyerk]

The first one for the sake of realism.

Well, here's the first pic of a female with armor;
http://www.grimdawn.com/screenshots/2013-4-10_menu02_lrg.jpg
Pretty well done if you ask me.

Though honestly, I hope there's an easter egg chestpiece that fully covers the male, but only serves as bikini-clad for the female. And probably one that works vice versa to lampshade the lampshade.

[Srikandi]

On a serious note, I think it's more sexist to assume females are all looking for the same way to identify with female characters or that they are looking to enhance their femininity with their characters.

I agree with this.

a) different women have different ideas of what kind of image they'd like to project in a video game.

b) even among that subset of women who want to look "beautiful", "sexy" and/or "feminine", different individuals have different ideas about what kind of look accomplishes that. Find any thread where female gamers are discussing video game fashion, or, hell, just look around a mall, and you'll find a lot of variation.

I also think it's odd that judging from this thread, there are a lot of men whose wives have convinced them that they want to look like strippers in video games :p And yet it's the husbands on here telling us what (they believe) their wives want, not the wives telling us what they want for themselves. Let them speak :p

Let me add that I'm no puritan, and I have no problem with including sexy looks for both women and men in games. Just don't make that the ONLY look, and don't forget that not all gamers (male and female) are heterosexual either for that matter, and "sexy" means different things to different people :)

In other words: if there's a boob slider, it has to go in both directions from average, and there better also be a package slider for the dudes :p

[DragonWolf]

I'll agree to a chainmail bikini for the girls if the male characters have a chainmail jocks (leg armour) and pasties or tassels (chest armour) on their nipples for armour.

:rolleyes: It only seems fair.:p