mythology

[myrmidon]

I noticed the other day that there is so many game's out there with Greece myth and So little with nord, viking, Aztec, and some other Indian tribes and what not. i was wondering why.

[Renevent]

You think so? My impression is there is a lot of games based on those mythologies...some of them being hugely popular (like Tomb raider).

I know I've played tons of Viking inspired games as well.

[myrmidon]

i never realy played tomb raider. ive only seen like 2 games about vikings not including lost vikings.

[Sile]

I don't know a lot about Norse mythology ( well much of any mythology for that matter) but I guess I know the most about greek mythology.

And I think that goes for most people. As to why? Maybe greek mythology is just more interesting than the others. Maybe there is more story, more "recorded history" of greek mythology.

When someoen says Viking or Norse mythology to me.. all i can see is tin hats with horns, some long blonde beards and maybe a few tatts.

However, Greek mythology just conjours up sooo many images of gods, monsters, heros, landscapes etc.

[ASYLUM101]

Sile, just FYI, Norse mythology has its own pantheon of gods and monsters, like the Greek mythology.

I don't know much about the lore behind it, but I do know there are TONS of monsters and gods, half gods, etc. You've got brotherly rivalries (Thor and Loki), and warmongering fathers like Odin...there's a ton of stuff there just like the Greek history.

Same for the Aztec. The ONLY game that I've seen do anything with aztec/mayan stuff was Tomb Raider. NOTHING else(besides loki), and I find tomb raider quite boring. (not the new one though) I mean, an ARPG with an aztec theme? would be pretty cool, though the armor might be quite prehistoric and limited. Check out the Loki Aztec, lol. All thongs and straw wrist warmers.

I ignore loki because they don't really tell much about the aztecs, just mention a few gods, a random feud, and that's it.

[Druthers]

There are lots of games that have inspiration from Norse mythology.
Games like Odin Sphere, Valkyrie Profile, Entrian Odyssey and Riviera: The Promised Land.

Pretty much any game that has mentioned Ragnarök or Asgard has Norse influence. The games are all over the place, its just like you said Norse myths are not as popular as the Greek ones, so they slip by under your radar.

[Opal Monkey]

Age of Mythology had Greek, Egyptian, and Norse mythology in it. It was actually a good game, I spent a fair bit of time on it back in the day (aka. about 7-8 years ago). Even though it was a RTS, the campaign actually had a decent amount of myth and storyline in it.

Hmm... Makes me want to reinstall it. I think the disks are almost within arms reach :p

One thing I haven't seen a lot of is Asian mythology. That was something I always liked about Titan Quest. Going through China, beating in Tigerman and Terra Cotta Warrior heads was pretty interesting the first few times.

[myrmidon]

well there was one of the dynasties warriors game

[Harlequin]

There are lots of games that have inspiration from Norse mythology.
Games like Odin Sphere, Valkyrie Profile, Entrian Odyssey and Riviera: The Promised Land.

Pretty much any game that has mentioned Ragnarök or Asgard has Norse influence. The games are all over the place, its just like you said Norse myths are not as popular as the Greek ones, so they slip by under your radar.

Mind that those all are japanese games. Only few of them had any mentionable success in US or EU.

[Renevent]

Other Norse/Viking inspired games I can think of:

Rune
Too Human
Viking: Battle for Asgard
Tomb Raider: Underworld
Loki
Konung I - III
Dusk of the Gods

Those are the ones I can recall (my memory stinks lol) and are more heavily influenced by Norse mythology...but if you look at half the RPG's and other games out there it's hard to find one without at least some references to Norse mythology. Even World of Warcraft is influenced by it...Final Fantasy has them...it's just everywhere.

[Malpheas]

*cough* One thing we're missing, I think, in games, is mythology about the Celts; WHERE ARE ALL THE FKN CELTS? (only roughly sounding like george carlin).

Shinto, Buddist, Taoist, Indonesian, Mayan, Incan, etc.

I swear, one of Squeenix's favourite themes is Yggdrasil (The world tree, which is Norse? or Celtic... O_O) and Ourorboros (The snake that encircles itself around the world and catches it's own tail; can't remember where this one is from).

[Renevent]

I think what people will notice if they really look hard is most games (or at least a lot of them) are actually a modge-podge of ideas and references from many different mythologies and cultures.

Even further than just naming and setting, if you pay close attention to the different factions/races/enemies they are usually based on more than one mythology or culture.

[yerkyerk]

I think what people will notice if they really look hard is most games (or at least a lot of them) are actually a modge-podge of Tolkien's ideas and references from Lord of the Rings.

Even further than just naming and setting, if you pay close attention to the different factions/races/enemies they are usually based on Orks, Elves and Humans.

Fixed it for ya.

[Renevent]

...and where did Tolkien get a lot of his ideas?

I give the guy credit (love LOTR) and he has obviously had a huge impact on popular media/gaming but acting like he's the source of all things fantasy is silly.

[ASYLUM101]

I don't recall reading anything about orks or elves in any of the mythologies....

[yerkyerk]

...and where did Tolkien get a lot of his ideas?

I give the guy credit (love LOTR) and he has obviously had a huge impact on popular media/gaming but acting like he's the source of all things fantasy is silly.

Everything has to come from something, as even the mythologies were inspired by tales, legends, phobias, etc...
However, just because Tolkien bundled them together doesn't mean he copy pasted the stuff. However, most games, books, comics and whatnot inspired by Tolkien's high fantasy are copy-pasta.

[Renevent]

I didn't say he copied and pasted, you however are trying to make it sound like all games do that from him.

It's an unfair assessment.

Games have many inspirations and their own twists. Are any of them as original as Tolkiens work? No of course not, though not sure why anyone would expect them to be.

As far as no orcs and elves prior to tolkien...yeah in their current disambiguation maybe. All one needs to do is google:

fantasy prior to tolkien
tolkien inspirations

...and it becomes clear that he used many inspirations for his work and took many ideas from other places.

Just to say again, this is not a bad thing. This is how all genres advance...just that it's not fair to credit this guy with everything as he (like others) stood on the backs of other people's ideas as well.

[Harlequin]

I don't recall reading anything about orks or elves in any of the mythologies....

It is true that he kind of invented Orcs but I am not sure about elves. There have been alot of elven-like creatures in mythologies before. It's just a matter of how you call them.

btw LOTR is incredibly overrated. The characters are very bland, they are either black or white. The only character that really is creative is Gollum imo.
Many will say "but he invented a language for the elves"...well yeah it is barely used in the book and has basically no impact on the story or the characters since everyone understands everyone.

Games have many inspirations and their own twists. Are any of them as original as Tolkiens work? No of course not, though not sure why anyone would expect them to be.

woah woah very careful there. As I said before his story isnt that good at all. There are games that easily beat him in terms of originality (is that a word?) and complexity.

[Malpheas]

Lol way to over generalize, Yerk.

Anyways, wasn't LOTR a work started by a thesis about linguistics? As for "orcs" and "elves", Tolkien just gave names to them. Folklore is a great thing. Which is one thing I loved about TQ, they went with country of origin for folklore and denizens (which I think was true for the most part).

Basically just reiterating with Ren's statement.

Cheers,

Malpheas

[Renevent]

I disagree with you Harlequin, his books a very good imo...and the movies are also equally as awesome...though that would probably have to do a lot with Peter Jackson :p

[yerkyerk]

I forgot the smiley on my first post. Not to be taken too seriously. But still, I find it rather strange that fantasy seems to be so restricted by Tolkien's work. Always Elves, Dwarfs, Orcs, Humans. Elves are always aligned with Orcs, although there's an old hatred. Humans are always the ones that mess up, yet hold the fate of the future of the world in their hands. Elves being near immortal (when it comes to aging) and having the same looks, always good with bows and often attuned with nature. Dwarves being greedy mining bastards that like to tinker, drink and have a scottish accent (well, I guess that accent is not due to Tolkien). The stereotypes are so common...

[Renevent]

All I know is all this talk of Tolkien, orcs, elves, and dwarves is making me want to watch one of the movies now lol.

[Malpheas]

Yeah...

I roll my eyes every time a game does something like that, yerk.

[Z3us]

An ARPG based in Mayan/aztec/inca mythology would work great, and I am surprised no one ever made one. There is quite a lot to work with and their cultre was much diverse, sadly we do not know most of it because the spanish invaders burned most of their writtings and erased their culcture. You could easily work with the creation-destruction cycles they believed in (thats where year 2012 came from, the end of this cycle) lits of animals with sacred meaning (jaguar, snakes..), human sacrifice which pleased the god kukulkan, big piramids and lots of temples (macchu picchu), caves of water pools which were believed to be gates to the underworld, dance fire rituals to contact the spirts of the dead, sacred burials and a ton of other mytholigical rituals and a rich culture, also unteresting would be the time before the conquistadors reached america, the time of great famine, civil wars and tons of human sacrifices, and a game could also include spanish conquistadors and their armor/weapons, although the aztecs mayans and imcas had plenty of their own to work with. Id looove to play a game like this. This could be Crates next project :)

(typed on my smartphone so sorry for any grammatical errors.)

[Renevent]

An ARPG based in Mayan/aztec/inca mythology would work great, and I am surprised no one ever made one. There is quite a lot to work with and their cultre was much diverse, sadly we do not know most of it because the spanish invaders burned most of their writtings and erased their culcture. You could easily work with the creation-destruction cycles they believed in (thats where year 2012 came from, the end of this cycle) lits of animals with sacred meaning (jaguar, snakes..), human sacrifice which pleased the god kukulkan, big piramids and lots of temples (macchu picchu), caves of water pools which were believed to be gates to the underworld, dance fire rituals to contact the spirts of the dead, sacred burials and a ton of other mytholigical rituals and a rich culture, also unteresting would be the time before the conquistadors reached america, the time of great famine, civil wars and tons of human sacrifices, and a game could also include spanish conquistadors and their armor/weapons, although the aztecs mayans and imcas had plenty of their own to work with. Id looove to play a game like this. This could be Crates next project :)

(typed on my smartphone so sorry for any grammatical errors.)

Aztaka

http://www.citeremis.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=126&Itemid=426&lang=en

More side scrolling but does have leveling and items to find. It's a pretty decent game too!


Laura Croft and the Guardians of Light (or other Tomb Raider games)

http://www.laracroftandtheguardianoflight.com/

Awesome game, I recommend it to anyone who enjoys old school games. It's more puzzle but there's tons of content and weapons to collect and bonus items to find that improve your characters life and gives it certain abilities.


Loki

http://www.loki-game.com/en/lejeu/index.php?rub=2

This is a traditional ARPG and though not entirely committed to aztecs/mayans it does have an entire act and main hero from aztecs. The game itself is just meh but it can be fun for a while.

[ASYLUM101]

Lara Croft isn't a REAL ARPG, even if they claim it to be it is not. It's far too different in how it plays, it's more of an overly expanded action adventure game. (not in a bad way) Not to mention the loot has nothing to do with aztec lore and they don't give much out about the actual aztec lore either...they just have two god-type characters involved, one of which (Totec) doesn't do much at all besides follow you and help you, and the other seems to show off his powers, but not as a god, but as a supreme wizard (xolotl is a god, how can he be stopped?) or something... I mean he does display his weird demon summoning/necromancy, he is a god of the dead, so that's something... but outside of that...nothing.

LOKI isn't worth playing for the average player, and the Aztec storyline is horrible. Queztacotl tells you to go check out on the dark evil panther god because he thinks he could be behind this mayhem, so you go, kill all the dudes in his cave (which is really freaking far away) and find the damn guy and he says, no I've noticed these changes too, but it is not I. So you go back to Queztacotl and he tells you "Oh, thank you for checking, I'm sorry for risking your life and putting you in danger, but now we know this an evil force beyond us"

There is a serious lack of lore in any of that.... and I'm not exactly paraphrasing the conversation.

I've never seen Aztaka, but it looks like it might play similar to castle crashers.

[Renevent]

I didn't say it was an ARPG...I said it was more of a puzzle game. It does have some similar mechanics that scratch the same itch though and is a really fun game. Most of the locations are inside aztec temples and stuff too...so while maybe there isn't a lot of lore there the setting is definitely there.

"xolotl is a god, how can he be stopped?"

That's kind of a weird statement...we all killed Hades in TQ without an issue right?

I think the conversation issues in Loki are due to translation problems...which does suck.

Anyways don't know why you are tearing the games down so much...just seemed like Z3us is interested in Aztec themed games I was just throwing some ideas out there for him.

[ASYLUM101]

An ARPG based in Mayan/aztec/inca mythology would work great

First line dude, Z3us said he was interested in an ARPG game based on one of the cultures.

Maybe YOU killed hades without an issue, the whole time I was like, wtf how the hell am I supposed to kill Hades, the god of the underworld who can "supposedly" kill me like the flick of a switch.

Heroism? Suuuure, lets go with that, it worked in Diablo 2 against the devil and his brethren.

[Renevent]

LOL whatever asylum...like I said I read that part (which is why in my descriptions I was mentioning if they were actual ARPG's or not) I was just giving him some ideas. I can't imagine what the harm in that is but obviously I have offended your sensibilities in some way lol.

[yerkyerk]

Now that you mention it, it was indeed weird killing a Titan and a God in Titan Quest - and killing 3 devils in Diablo 2.

Random villagers: Ow shit, some immortal gods are ravaging through our lands, killing everything in their paths.
Heroguy; don't worry, I got a plan.
Random villagers: you have set up a scheme and mechanics dozens of years ago to trick the gods into losing their immortality, set up a trap to kill them, after we sneaked our way into their palace, using their overconfidence to our advantage while we throw whatever armies we have left at them?
Heroguy; nah, I'm just gonna walk through the frontgates and kill entire legions in my path with a club and than smash the gods's skulls.

[Renevent]

I think Zues did kill some god of healing with a lightning bolt or something (been a long time since I have read that stuff lol) but that is all I recall.

Didn't Hercules also fight Hades as one of his tests? He didn't kill him but he did wound him and defeated him in battle.

Personally I loved fighting Hades and thought he was a killer boss especially all the stuff he said and his skills were also.

I guess for me the bigger the bad guy the better...I don't play these games wanting a 100% accurate representation of the Mythos they are based on.

*edit*

I think I may be wrong on the Titans thing...I am probably confusing the giants/gorgons with Titans. Anyways removed that part as I think I was incorrect.

[Malpheas]

Now that you mention it, it was indeed weird killing a Titan and a God in Titan Quest - and killing 3 devils in Diablo 2.

Random villagers: Ow shit, some immortal gods are ravaging through our lands, killing everything in their paths.
Heroguy; don't worry, I got a plan.
Random villagers: you have set up a scheme and mechanics dozens of years ago to trick the gods into losing their immortality, set up a trap to kill them, after we sneaked our way into their palace, using their overconfidence to our advantage while we throw whatever armies we have left at them?
Heroguy; nah, I'm just gonna walk through the frontgates and kill entire legions in my path with a club and than smash the gods's skulls.

LMAOZHEDONG - hahahahhaa High 5!

Seriously, though, even though that really made me laugh (Thanks Yerk!), this is a serious problem with ARPG Lore. I think there should be a reason and a scripted battle (at least) where Deus Ex Machina plays a role vs a god (or a fREAKINg Prime Evil... O_O).

I dunno if anyone played Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter, but that was well done; albeit not an ARPG - but good example of lore. The end boss was... well, not killable expect by cutscene.

OO I know! Dungeon Siege II - the end boss WAS NOT KILLABLE by just hitting. You had to take part in a scripted event to kill him. I thought that was well done. He wasn't a god or anything, but he carried a sword of the ultimate bad guy (which you kill in the expansion), which may have been an invincibility charm. Actually, the end battle to DS2 was really well done, if not long.

Anyways...

[Renevent]

Guess I am the odd guy out here lol...facing the gods in toe to toe combat is the shit!

But maybe like malpheas said there should be some scripted stuff to go along with it...like perhaps weakening them then *something* else either traps them or banishes them instead.

[Malpheas]

Yeah, toe-to-toe combat is fun and all, but should a PC really expect to win in a pitched battle vs an EXTRA PLANAR being? I think they should not, unless precedent has been set, something extraordinary or otherwise has been done to assure that victory after a skill testing mathematical question (har har) has been completed.

[ASYLUM101]

LOL whatever asylum...like I said I read that part (which is why in my descriptions I was mentioning if they were actual ARPG's or not) I was just giving him some ideas. I can't imagine what the harm in that is but obviously I have offended your sensibilities in some way lol.

Whatever? I see no harm in listing them either, just as I don't see the harm in me replying to your post stating that none of which are ARPGs, which is what the guy was asking for. I don't see how that calls for a battle.

And the problem with fighting a god is like Yerk put it, some random dude (NOT HERCULES OR A HERO WE KNOW) just goes up to a god and kills him, like nothing.

SUP Typhon, I heard you can devour gods and stuff.... let me smack you with this hammer.. pwned.

I mean, not really a dramatic boss fight... Of course, you can't mix myth and realism too closely, but like Malph mentioned, DS2 had that whole scripted event, and actually, TQ had it too for Typhon prior to IT... The whole, kill the statues to disable his power sucking-skills and weaken him. If done better (like, not making him totally useless when you destroyed the statues, and making him have said powers without needing to "steal" them) this fight could have been epic.

Another cool fight which could have been much better - Bandari. The whole, you fight him a bit, and he teleports out. It would've been cool if that was like a gradual thing all along the path from the great wall to the palace, occasionally having to fight this guy who comes out of nowhere with an army of terracotta soldiers.. fight him a bit, he leaves you alone with a nice gift...more summons and a sizzling lava pit. Maybe you find some weird conduits or something that Bandari uses to focus his magic, destroy them and he is forced to stop teleport-escaping and just fight you at his palace. THAT would be pretty awesome. (reminds me a bit of the zilla fight from UL, freaking ninja..)

Hades... well the fight itself was cool, the transformations, the voice acting, the looks... but my point was that he is a god, man... how is it that he can't just snap his fingers and you fall over dead? There has to be SOMETHING to make him lose his powers or something, a way to banish him perhaps (as was suggested). That would have made the fight much cooler.

Something like, you run in, he's all like, YOU WILL PAY FOR YOUR HUBRIS. So then he cooperates and fights you with honor... but you do like no damage. After a while, Persephone intervenes and explains to you (somehow while you're fighting) that you gotta use this and so and so to trap him and then banish him, and in turn freeing her. So you start doing this and he becomes trapped in some soulnet or something, and you go and do your thing to weaken him. Destroy some soulstones or something, I dunno. Make him lose his abilities, and he starts insulting you, then transforms. Do this X times and then you can trigger the thing that banishes him, perhaps just activating some potion item that Persephone gives you. It could work and make for a very interesting fight.

[Renevent]

Regarding Hades wasn't there something about destroying those crystals in his palace that had something to do with weakening him? I know technically you didn't even have to do them and all it really did was give you charms...but I could have swore the quest mentioned something along those lines.

I have to admit I never really read and care about story in these games and skip text most of the time...I'm concerned with the setup and presentation I guess as story in these games bore me for the most part and take seat behind the action.

[ASYLUM101]

First time around I get wayyy into the story and try to delve into as much as possible. After that , unless I missed a quest, I rush through.

The crystals, I don't think they weakened him... I don't remember, I forgot. :/

But still, if it were THAT easy to kill Hades, don't you think someone else would've done it? I mean Odysseus knew, why couldn't he do it? Wasn't he the hero of heroes? I know that the game couldn't advance if we do it, but you know...

[Renevent]

I can't find the quest text but the item descriptions said:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/cgi-bin/search/banshee_search.pl?_layout=TitanQuest_Items_Page&_cgifunction=search&TitanQuest_Items.id=1094

"A splinter from one of the Crystals of Erebus, the source of Hades' power in the world of the living. Can enhance head armor only."

Either way you guys are right it didn't tie into bringing him down that well anyways...but kinda like the old Typhon it seems the devs were thinking somewhat along those line.

[hooby]

I forgot the smiley on my first post. Not to be taken too seriously. But still, I find it rather strange that fantasy seems to be so restricted by Tolkien's work. Always Elves, Dwarfs, Orcs, Humans. Elves are always aligned with Orcs, although there's an old hatred. Humans are always the ones that mess up, yet hold the fate of the future of the world in their hands. Elves being near immortal (when it comes to aging) and having the same looks, always good with bows and often attuned with nature. Dwarves being greedy mining bastards that like to tinker, drink and have a scottish accent (well, I guess that accent is not due to Tolkien). The stereotypes are so common...

It's much thanks to Dungeons&Dragons I think. This is the one game, that ist like the grandfather to all video game RPG's. And Dungeons&Dragons in it's first edition borrowed from Lord of the Rings so heavily, that they even got into legal problems, and had to rename quite some stuff.

But I believe the main Reason for the big Success of this typical 08/15 Fantasy world is, that it behaves like the Borg: It assimilates everything. It's not based on one mythology, it's like the melting pot of all major mythologies ever been out there.

So for the Norse part of it: Dwarves. The Norse influence on the typical Dwarves is extremely heavy. It's the most easy to tell influence. Elves are much harder to figure out!
Dwarves are like a mixture of Vikings and Siberian Mine Workers. The hammer - a central nordic symbol - works as a symbol of dwarfes too, their panteon often shows clear parallels to nordic Gods, and they are displayed something that very much reminds me of communist industrialism.

The elves aren't so easy to figure out. That's because they are based on asian myths, which are rather uncommon to us, but the are often displayed as rather distached from the world, and uninvolved, which is the typical impression that western people had of eastern religion and culture in earlier times. Plus their veneration of nature is very shintoistic. And their weapons of choice often are light, fast, and seemingly fragile, but from superior craftmanship - very much like medival japanese swords.

Orcs are cleary based on african culture. Shamanism, drum music and all that stuff. And they are displayed as rather dim-witted, primitive and uncivilized, which fits very well into the wrongful picture the world had of africa in old times. It's a shame they are always protrayed as the evil race that needs to be decimated.

And so on, and so forth...

The big appeal of that kind of fantasy is, that no matter what kind of mythology you personally find most fascinating - you'll find parts of it in there!

Any setting limiting itself to one single mythology can never have an appeal as broad as this.

The problem with the celts is, that there isn't much known about their mythology. They didn't write anything down about their secrets, and historicans even don't know why. They had a very strong oral tradition, and all their secrets were only passed on from master to apprentice, and were completely lost over time. The only things we know about the celt's mythology were written down by cesar, and by christian monks. Both of those sources are known to favour self-portrayal and discredit of anything other over accuracy and correctness.

But the little we know about the Celts has a very deeply anchored position in games:
The Bard and the Druid - typical classes found in almost any game, that do have clearly celtic roots, and feature typical celtic motives.

[Druthers]

Now that you mention it, it was indeed weird killing a Titan and a God in Titan Quest - and killing 3 devils in Diablo 2.

Random villagers: Ow shit, some immortal gods are ravaging through our lands, killing everything in their paths.
Heroguy; don't worry, I got a plan.
Random villagers: you have set up a scheme and mechanics dozens of years ago to trick the gods into losing their immortality, set up a trap to kill them, after we sneaked our way into their palace, using their overconfidence to our advantage while we throw whatever armies we have left at them?
Heroguy; nah, I'm just gonna walk through the frontgates and kill entire legions in my path with a club and than smash the gods's skulls.

In Most ARPGS you are not just some blasé 'heroguy' you are a very driven heroic above average person who, after a long time of killing monsters, has gotten a ton of battle experience and learned a bunch magic or combat skills and has found a treasure trove of powerful magical items.

So, after killing every other beast and demon in the game world you realize you are ridiculously powerful and maybe, just maybe, you could go toe to toe with a god or prime evil and win.

[Father Squid]

So for the Norse part of it: Dwarves. The Norse influence on the typical Dwarves is extremely heavy. It's the most easy to tell influence. Elves are much harder to figure out!
Dwarves are like a mixture of Vikings and Siberian Mine Workers. The hammer - a central nordic symbol - works as a symbol of dwarfes too, their panteon often shows clear parallels to nordic Gods, and they are displayed something that very much reminds me of communist industrialism.

The elves aren't so easy to figure out. That's because they are based on asian myths, which are rather uncommon to us, but the are often displayed as rather distached from the world, and uninvolved, which is the typical impression that western people had of eastern religion and culture in earlier times. Plus their veneration of nature is very shintoistic. And their weapons of choice often are light, fast, and seemingly fragile, but from superior craftmanship - very much like medival japanese swords.

Orcs are cleary based on african culture. Shamanism, drum music and all that stuff. And they are displayed as rather dim-witted, primitive and uncivilized, which fits very well into the wrongful picture the world had of africa in old times. It's a shame they are always protrayed as the evil race that needs to be decimated.

And so on, and so forth...


You can't be talking about Tolkien's works here are you? It is almost universally accepted by Tolkien scholars that the elves are based on northern European mythologies such as the Ljosalfar of the Norse, and Celtic based legends such as the Arthurian romances and the Tuatha De Danann. Tolkien's dwarves again have their roots in northern European myth, with a tinge of medieval Hebrew influences rather than Siberian mine workers... The orcs are corrupted versions of the elves, and Tolkien himself wrote that he based them around the goblin of folklore. Other scholars have drawn parallels with the forces of Sauron and the forces of Nazism and fascism which were sweeping Europe... but I have never heard the African parallels. Even the name orc comes from the Latin Orcus - god of the underworld again tying into Tokien's roots as a linguist.

And yes, while there are stereotypes and prototypes or inspirations... there is very little in art or literature (or for that matter any creative medium such as gaming) that can be said to be truly original. Plato encourages all artists to follow this method - find the best examples of the work of the masters, and copy their works... And isn't this what is still going on today?

[hooby]

You can't be talking about Tolkien's works here are you?

I'm rather talking about your typical RPG computer game - and a bit about D&D perhaps.

Most fantasy literatur I know (and I read quite some books over the years) don't feature stereotypes as flat and shallow as many games do, they at least add their own little twist if they are using that default fantasy races. (Althogh I don't remember reading many books featuring orcs, elves and dwarves.)

It may be that games try to add their own take on those races too, but most of the times you'd have to read the novel based on the game, or at least those monitor-filling text-blocks of ingame lore (possibly found as books in the game) to find out what that differences are. So I believe the differences are less grave.

[An7hraX]

I noticed the other day that there is so many game's out there with Greece myth and So little with nord, viking, Aztec, and some other Indian tribes and what not. i was wondering why.

I think the problem is that you lack the understanding of what races/classes/names are based on which mythology, simply because you said Greek is better represented than Nordic, which is simply not true.
Any game that has:
a dwarf/elf/kraken/
barbarian (for the most part)
Hammers
references to Valhalla
references to the words Skadi/Tyr/Ymir/Loki/Ragnarok/

These are the only ones I can think of, but I'm not even at 50%.

[Code187]

I think the problem is that you lack the understanding of what races/classes/names are based on which mythology, simply because you said Greek is better represented than Nordic, which is simply not true.
Any game that has:
a dwarf/elf/kraken/
barbarian (for the most part)
Hammers
references to Valhalla
references to the words Skadi/Tyr/Ymir/Loki/Ragnarok/

These are the only ones I can think of, but I'm not even at 50%.

yes there is alot the the Valhalla belivs.

i'd love to see a real rpg game build over the valhalla belives with midgard as the plase where evil rises, tralls ( slaves ) and so on, yes yes yes cool game dear Crate your next work of line ARPG over Valhalla, and it world of Vikings and barbarrians SWEET

[hooby]

"Barbarians" means nothing at all.

There never has been any culture that called themselves barbarians. And while the word itself stands for being "uncivilized" and "backward" its usage for other peoples has been coined by Caesar and the roman empire - and they claimed all people not yet invaded by the roman empire to be barbarians.

Later on it mostly has been used by Europeans for indigenous peoples of the African and American continents, in an attempt to suggest their own superiority.

[An7hraX]

"Barbarians" means nothing at all.

There never has been any culture that called themselves barbarians. And while the word itself stands for being "uncivilized" and "backward" its usage for other peoples has been coined by Caesar and the roman empire - and they claimed all people not yet invaded by the roman empire to be barbarians.

Later on it mostly has been used by Europeans for indigenous peoples of the African and American continents, in an attempt to suggest their own superiority.

In video games barbarians are represented in a Nordic style, I'm fully aware of the meaning of the word barbarian and it's historic origins.