Should I buy a GTX 480? [Archive]

Void(null)

11-03-2010, 07:51 PM

As many of you may or may not know, I have been joygasm'ing for the GTX 480 since its release and now is that special time of year... my birthday.

There is absolutely no doubt that I want a GTX 480... but I look at the price of the GTX 470 and Its the difference of $250 vs $470 for 1/3rd of an increase in performance. Now thats a huge difference in performance but its also a huge difference in price.

The wise part of me says pick up a GTX 470 from evga and wait and see if the 480 comes down in price to justify it within the next 90 days and take advantage of their step-up program.

The other part of me says 'You don't want the 470, you want the 480 and that's what will make you happy for the next 730 days until you upgrade again."

So my dear friends, anyone care to help me either justify the cost, find a really good deal or talk me out of it?

jiaco

11-03-2010, 08:28 PM

Voice of reason here:

At my local shop, 399Euros for the 480 and 76E for the 430. The question is not whether the 480 will make you happier it is what are you gonna do with the extra 320 bucks.

But, due to your odd 730 day comment, I think this ship has sailed. Anyway, can you tell us: what do you need it for? Do you really think it will make a big difference for something? If so what?

Would love to know what someone who shells out that kind of money for a graphics card does with it. My current 8600 seems fine for all games that I play, but with the 76E price on the 430, I am gonna buy one.

Void(null)

11-03-2010, 08:45 PM

Well the difference here is $250 vs $470, so $220 which while large is not quite the atrocious European price.

As to why would I want such a huge GPU well... I am a gamer. When I play a game I want to play it with every setting maxed out at a stable 30-60 fps.

My GTX 280 is a beautiful card and it has served me well the past 2 years, but with the advent of DX11 my DX10 card simply is not giving me the maximum amount of shiny.

I can't turn on tessellation for use in Dirt 2 and Call of Pripyat, Civilization V or Metro 2033.

Metro 2033, Stalker Clear Sky and Call of Pripyat have unacceptable frame rates with everything maxed out and I had to make some modifications to Mafia 2 in order to run it with full physics effects, and I had to turn down a fair few sliders for Just Cause 2.

These are all warning signs that over the next year or two, I will have to turn down the graphic sliders more and more to get an acceptable frame rate and I hate having to compromise my gaming experience.

Just being able to play a game as long as it runs on some level is just not good enough. I want to be able to buy a brand new game, turn all the sliders up to max and have fun at a stable 60FPS. When I can no longer do that then its time to invest into a new high performance GPU.

That 8600 gets 19 frames in F.E.A.R 2. It does not even meet the minimum requirements for Metro 2033. That is simply not enjoyable for me. If you can't run modern games at an acceptable framerate then what is the point of being a PC gamer? To play games from 5-10 years ago?

I couldn't do it myself. At that point I would just buy a console and be done with it. At least then I would be guaranteed a certain quality experience.

jiaco

11-03-2010, 09:12 PM

I was using the 430, not the 470 as the lo-price model but your arguments are fine, if you have the money, BUY IT. I think I had better never see such a system for as of now, I have no idea what I am missing.

Up to two weeks ago, I was driving a car worth less than that graphics card.

hooby

11-03-2010, 09:16 PM

You should buy four, and setup QUAD SLI. :p

Void(null)

11-03-2010, 09:22 PM

I can compleatly understand man.

Enthusiast Gaming is like having sex. Once you have done it, there is no going back.

I miss the days when I didn't spend egregious amounts of money on my computer and I was happy to just play a game, not caring about the graphics quality.

Ambient occlusion is another huge one for me, the GTX 280 just doesn't have the umpf to do it well and I really like the look of environments with it turned on. So I have to start making choices like "Do I want AA or AO?"

Void(null)

11-03-2010, 09:23 PM

You should buy four, and setup QUAD SLI. :p

If I had the money and the power supply I would without question.

:D

Sadly I'm on something of a gaming budget so $500 really is my absolute upper limit. Although the wife would be far happier with an even more sane and rational figure.

hooby

11-03-2010, 09:37 PM

I miss the days when I didn't spend egregious amounts of money on my computer and I was happy to just play a game, not caring about the graphics quality.

From time to time I still fire up ZSNES and play some very old 2D stuff. Some of those games are really fun to play, and good 2D graphics - even as pixelated as they may be - hold up better today than old 3D games with their lowpoly models and blocky textures.

The irrational focus on graphics is killing the gaming market. Producing all the models and textures for a game with AAA Graphics has become so damn expensive, that games have to cater the biggest possible mainstream target audience to possibly be profitable, and cannot take any risks. That's why we see more and more rip offs and just refinements of stuff already has been released a hundred times before.

The focus on graphics is so strong, that stuff like gameplay, 'innovation' and good story just gets lost somewhere on the side-tracks. And if someone comes up with a crazy new game idea, the investors will ask "is it like this game, or is it like that game?" - and if the answer is "no, it's a new kind of game", the investors will get cold feet, and back out.

Another problem of that disproportionate focus on graphics and the high production costs caused by that, is that games get released earlier and earlier, and therefore buggier and buggier.

Just setup a list of your most favourite games of all times or games you have very fond memories of. Make it your top10, or your top20 - depending on how much games you play. Then go to wikipedia, and find out which year each of those games has been released. How many of those games are younger than 2000? I believe almost all games of my list would be older than 2000.

It's easy to get hooked on graphics nowadays. Most of the games sold don't have to offer anything else, besides good graphics. It propably is the only way to be able to stay excited about new games any longer.

Renevent

11-03-2010, 10:04 PM

I always buy the 2nd tier (mid range) cards...always served me well. I think I have had my 260GTX (got it for $220) like 2 years ago and I still play all games on pretty much max settings.

But that's me...maybe your needs are different. If you play games at higher resolutions (1080P and above) the top level cards make sense.

Void(null)

11-03-2010, 10:15 PM

From time to time I still fire up ZSNES and play some very old 2D stuff. Some of those games are really fun to play, and good 2D graphics - even as pixelated as they may be - hold up better today than old 3D games with their lowpoly models and blocky textures.

Don't get me wrong, I love my original NES and I play emulators all the time. Just recently I found the joy of Multiplayer KAGA and was playing Streets of Rage and Road rash with my friends online.

I love 8 & 16 but graphics and that's one of the reasons I enjoy Minecraft so much, however we are experiencing those games the way they were intended to be played. They are supposed to look as they do. The sprites were lovingly drawn and there is nothing that anyone can really do to improve upon them other than redraw the entire game like Street Fighter 2 HD, and even then they lose a part of their character and charm. They are exactly what they are and can be appreciated as such.

However when you play a modern game with 20 bajillion graphics sliders you can be sure that the way that the game was intended to be enjoyed... was with all of those sliders cranked to the right.

I want to be able to enjoy games at there maximum level of visual detail.

Sonic still looks great to this day because that is the way Sonic was supposed to look. Street Fighter IV on the lowest settings is a crime.

gdansk

11-03-2010, 10:39 PM

Void(null)

11-03-2010, 10:58 PM

Just setup a list of your most favourite games of all times or games you have very fond memories of. Make it your top10, or your top20 - depending on how much games you play. Then go to wikipedia, and find out which year each of those games has been released. How many of those games are younger than 2000? I believe almost all games of my list would be older than 2000.

It's easy to get hooked on graphics nowadays. Most of the games sold don't have to offer anything else, besides good graphics. It propably is the only way to be able to stay excited about new games any longer.

A little disingenuous. There have been some great games in the past 10 years. Dragon Age, Batman: Arkham Aslyum, The Witcher, S.T.A.L.K.E.R, X3, Titan Quest. Just to name a few.

However for shits and giggle lets try this. I will even count sequels as an inclusive listing.

Elite/Frontier/Frontier First Encounters (1984/1993/1995)
Vampire the Masqurade: Bloodlines (2004)
F.E.A.R (2005)
S.T.A.L.K.E.R: Shadow of Chernobyl (2007)
Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 (1998/2000)
Planescape Torment (1999)
Neverwinter Nights + Expansions (2002/2003/2003)
Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind/Oblivion (1994/1996/2002/2006)
Silent Hill 1 & 2 (1999/2001)
Civilization 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (1991/1996/2003/2005/2010)
Medieval: Total War 2 (2006)
Dawn of War, Winter Assault, Dark Crusade (2004/2005/2006)
Mount & Blade: Warband (2010)
Broken Sword 1 & 2 (1996/1997)
Max Payne 1 & 2 (2001/2003)
Diablo 1 & 2 (1997/2000)
Syndicate, Syndicate Wars (1993/1996)
Fallout 1, 2 (1997/1998)
Grand Theft Auto, 1, 2, 3, San Andreas, Vice City, 4 (1997/1999/2001/2002/2004/2005/2006/2008
Titan Quest, TQ: Immortal Throne (2006/2007)

Void(null)

11-03-2010, 11:02 PM

I'm a bit skeptical of the GTX480. As such if you really want top of the line performance wait for the rumored GTX580 which should be coming out this year... Until then stick with your GTX280. This way you have the chance to see if AMD has a better offering, I doubt it but who knows? Either way, it would be more likely to hold you over for two years until your next upgrade (early adopters usually are lucky in that way).

580 should be announced on the 8th of November and the leaked specs are somewhat unimpressive. At best it will be a cue to drop the price on the 480. (Which ive been waiting on)

Its looking to be the difference between the 8800GTS (G92) and the 9800GT (http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=548&card2=559) which was not that much of an improvement.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/71-graphics/41570-the-geforce-gtx-580-mystery-is-clearing.html

Its rumored to be about a 15% performance gain and will retail for $599.

Sile

11-03-2010, 11:15 PM

2 x 460's in SLI? They scale really well and are great value.

Is this a game you're playing? Should have put this in the computer thread?

There's always that new ATI card coming out.. forget the number.. 58XX? 59XX?

Void(null)

11-04-2010, 12:10 AM

Is this a game you're playing? Should have put this in the computer thread?

Its a little hard to play games on thin air, if we have threads about the Kinect and Onlive and Steam and the PSP then why not a Video card?

As for SLI, I really dislike SLI as I have had some bad expirences with it in the past. I wont even buy the 2 cards in one like the 9800X2.

While the technology is sound the majority of games either do not take advantage of it, or have horrible support for it.

I would rather spend a little extra and have 100% of my video card all of the time, than 50% of my video card half the time.

Sile

11-04-2010, 07:52 AM

Its a little hard to play games on thin air, if we have threads about the Kinect and Onlive and Steam and the PSP then why not a Video card?

As for SLI, I really dislike SLI as I have had some bad expirences with it in the past. I wont even buy the 2 cards in one like the 9800X2.

While the technology is sound the majority of games either do not take advantage of it, or have horrible support for it.

I would rather spend a little extra and have 100% of my video card all of the time, than 50% of my video card half the time.

I thought Kinect, Onlive and Steam were directly to do with games, not hardware? :)

May aswell join in anyway... I'm in two minds about SLI. While I think it's great and all, I can't see much point unless you're using 2 or more screens. One awesome card is plenty I think. Games are getting better with SLI support, but it still isn't up to scratch. I still read about people having problems with it in certain games and really, you'd think by now it'd be better.

gruevy

11-04-2010, 12:40 PM

I've got a GTX 260, and for some reason I can't find a site that will let me compare it to more modern cards. I just wanna see benchmarks run with the same other hardware or it gets confusing.

Void(null)

11-04-2010, 02:12 PM

Video Card Comparison Tool from GPUReview (http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php)

Overclock.net charts
(http://www.overclock.net/graphics-cards-general/660739-gpu-comparison-charts-56k-warning.html)
Toms Hardware Charts (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2010-gaming-graphics-charts-high-quality/benchmarks,114.html) (Probably what you are looking for)

Coridan

11-04-2010, 02:50 PM

Void(null)

11-04-2010, 03:06 PM

I thought Kinect, Onlive and Steam were directly to do with games, not hardware? :)

Last time I checked, I used my Video Card extensively to play games. YMMV. If we can discuss consoles and console accessories on these forums without fuss, logic would dictate the same would apply to the PC if it is related to gaming.

You don't think that perhaps if there was something wrong with the content or location of this thread, the Moderator would have moved it instead of responding to it?

I think you are just looking for an excuse to play Junior Mod. You're not by the way. A Moderator that is.

You have the same ability and right to press the "Report" button as I and every other person on these forums and that's as far as it goes, then the real moderators will take a look and deal with it accordingly.

Pro Tip: No one likes a Backseat Moderator.

Now back on topic.

SLI/Crossfire is a brilliant use of technology that allows users to upgrade in steps by adding in a now significantly cheaper 2nd card to keep up to date. Allows users to use two lower priced High end cards to exceed the top of the line flagship cards at a lower price or allows you to add extra muscle when/if the top of the line just doesn't cut it.

When it works, it works beautifully as benchmarks will attest. The GTX 295 still dominates charts and is a single card dual GPU solution.

That being said, its very much an on paper thing. In real world use enough games have poor or nonexistant SLI/CF support as to render it a pain in the ass to deal with. To be fair, most of those issues can be resolved but that's far more effort and fiddling I feel I should have to do when spending top dollar on a GPU.

Single GPU solutions have less performance at a higher rate of compatibility, that's a trade off for my convenience that I am willing to make.

After my experiences with the 9800X2 I am really hesitant to take the SLI plunge again. The card itself was great but almost none of my games would let me take advantage of both cards. That's slowly changing and todays games are a lot better at it, but there is still a ways to go before SLI/CF support is as standard as Widescreen support. When it is, perhaps I will look into them again.

Anyway. In a lengthy verbose way, I am entirely agreeing with you on SLI.

;)

Void(null)

11-04-2010, 03:08 PM

My current computer has the GTX 480 and I love it. It runs quiet and cool and nothing has made it skip yet. I was able to play Metro 2033 with full AA and full DX11 graphics with no problem. I highly highly recommend it as it is the best card I've gotten.

Awesome to hear a glowing review from a satisfied user! I know like, no one who has a 480 in my group of friends, as we all picked up the 280 around the same time and none of them are ready to invest in DX11 just yet.

I on the other hand am like "I have these DX 11 games, I wanna play them with maximum shiny!"

:D

Void(null)

11-04-2010, 03:52 PM

Update, I love my wife so very much. We had a discussion and she is highly in favor of waiting until the 580 is announced and then picking that up. Although its still highly dependant upon the launch price of the 580, if its roughly the same price as the 480 is now we will pull the trigger.

Word of advice to anyone, if you have the option... marry a gamer chick.

:D

hooby

11-04-2010, 05:32 PM

Street Fighter IV on the lowest settings is a crime.

Yeah, seeing any game on lowest settings, always reminds of WoW for some reason...

But most time I let my hardware get somwhere into the medium settings range, before I start upgrading. My old rig still could play most games I played with medium to high details, as long as I didn't turn on any AA. I didn't play any of that really graphics-heavy shooters though. Those possibly would have been more of a problem.

I could have waited even longer, but I got a nice bonus payment from my job, so I decided to treat myself. But without that extra-money I surely would have waited another year at least. I'm not that rich to be buying new hardware whenever I find a single game that I cannot play with every single last setting pushed to the max. :)

Thander

11-05-2010, 12:26 AM

Well, I'd stick with that plan!

You want top-dollar, you can have it (and your wife will borrow your hardware from time to time ;) ), and all you need to figure out if the price-tag difference on the 480 or 580 makes your day or not.

Happy hunting
(and btw, what will you sell your 280 for? I'm hoping to build something cheap and nice enough, but I'm the cost/perfomance nerd enthusiast. As for delivery, I live in Denmark).

Void(null)

11-05-2010, 01:50 AM

The wife will be getting the GTX 280 and will be using her 8800 GTX as a physics card. She doesn't care so much about DirectX 11 as long as she can play The Sims 3 and Left4Dead cranked.

She is not nearly as fussy as me when it comes to the shiny, but she still likes things to be pretty.

I think this is one of the reasons she encourages me to upgrade, she wants a new Video card but cant seem to justify it to herself for the Sims so she encourages me to upgrade to something that will still be high performance by the time she gets a hold of it.

;)

Void(null)

11-05-2010, 07:53 PM

The first 580 (http://www.amazon.com/GeForce-Graphics-ENGTX580-2DI-1536MD5/dp/tech-data/B004AP9IJ0/ref=de_a_smtd) is available for preorder from Amazon priced at $520.

Sadly its Asus out of the gate, so im going to see if evga get it together.

Wish XFX would come back to nVidia.

Thander

11-06-2010, 04:01 PM

nice agreement on the cards exchange.

I've always thought that Asus along with MSI where good products, but I'm not that far into the different production companies. Any companies worth your recommendation in general?

Void(null)

11-06-2010, 04:51 PM

With the exception of XFX they are all pretty much the same in terms of quality. They only thing different is the customer service and I have never once had eVGA fail to live up to their RMA, and their step-up program means your never blindsided by a sudden revision.

Saying that, I also had to RMA my eVGA GTX 280 twice due to random failure.

XFX were the king of Kings, there cards were generally 20% more expensive, but they came with a double lifetime warentee and were built like tanks. I dont know if this still holds true but if you ever had to RMA an XFX card they used to send you a New GPU overnight, along with a pre-paid box to return your Video Card for RMA, which is just an amazing level of customer service.

Sadly XFX only makes ATI cards now, which is almost enough reason to make me move to ATI.

MSI, Asus and Gigabyte are all about the same for quality and service. Ive heard mixed reviews on both sides, some people swear by them, some people swear at them.

PNY is best to be avoided, low quality cards with bad support.

Sparkle is a strange company, they are generally cheaper, have some form of gimmick and on various tech forums I have heard really good things about the cards themselves, but I have no idea how their customer support is.

Thander

11-07-2010, 01:37 PM

thx for the reply. I'll take that into future account. Good luck on the rich-detailed gaming ;)

Void(null)

11-07-2010, 04:47 PM

Thank you, only two more days until the alleged announcement and the GTX 580's go on sale. I saw a demonstration where they are now using a similer system to ATI's vapor cooling, so they are getting the same or lower temps.

Heating issue solved.

:D

Sile

11-07-2010, 08:58 PM

I've had a sparkle card before. Card seemed perfectly fine and comparable to Asus and Gigabyte which are the 2 main brands I buy with Gigabyte being my fav for no particular reason. In saying that, I've never had GPU failures so I can't comment on warranties and customer support, but I get all of my hardware through a mate who works at a warehouse distributor so he takes care of any probs I'd have.

I'm really in the same boat, trying to decide on getting 2 x 460's, 1 x 480/5870 or the GTX 580. I'm planning on getting 2 x 24" samsung screens, possibly 3 in the future (for graphic software and certain games) so I want to prepare for that.

I'll have to check the Aust pricing on the 580. Might be worth getting one, then when ATI bring out their next card, it might come down and I can pick another one up and get another screen.

But where do you stop? It seems whenever a new card comes out, they release a better card soon after.